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Bring back the dwarf race???
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Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I hope you all know the dwemer are just elves that split off from the rest in the summerset isles. Elves that did a lot of shopping at Home Depot.3 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How is the thu'um theory fan lore when it comes out of the mouth of an NPC in an official Bethesda game?
Part of it does, yep! I liked that nod. Enough that anyone who's read Kirkbride's material would recognize it, but without actually mentioning the jungles and any changes. Leaves it down to interpretation which is nice, though taking it as proof that Talos DID change Cyrodiil from jungle into forest and grassland just makes ESO even more lore inaccurate than it already is.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Well, actually it has been stated by the writers and Lore master of ESO that they bounce new ideas/ new materiel off the Bethesda team. Also, both ZOS and Bethesda are owned by Zenimax Media which Bethesda created in 1999, so they really are the same company, just different divisions.
Yes, Zenimax owns ZOS and BGS, but they're definitely not the same company. Two completely different dev teams. That would be like saying Blizzard's World of Warcraft team and Treyarch's Call of Duty team are the same company, just because the same parent company owns them both.
They claim to bounce ideas off Bethesda, and on some level I'm sure they do, or did. But Bethesda have always made it clear that ZOS are doing their own thing and ESO is separate from TES. I assume that's why they're allowed to get away with so many lore inaccuracies and weird crap like quite literally thousands of different emperors within the span of a year, with names like xXLegolasXx. Simpler to allow for lore errors, wipe them under the table in favour of making a fun game, and hoping no-one cares. I'm fine with that, but don't think ZOS should take that far enough to the extent that Dwemer reappear. I don't disagree with you - this whole tangent kicked off because someone claimed Bethesda never retcon. I just wanted to point out that they do, frequently
Edited by Darkstorne on November 23, 2016 5:26PM0 -
builder680✭✭✭Would need a game set before 1E 700 (appx 2800 years before ESO) to have playable Dwemer.
@WhitePawPrints
The Second Era began appx 2220 years after the disappearance of the Dwemer (the 1st era was 2920 years long). 2E year 1 marks the fall of the Reman Dynasty, and the beginning of direct rule over Tamriel by the Akaviri potentates. In 2E 572, the Akaviri invaders were defeated.
This begins a period known as The Interregnum, a decade or so into which ESO is set. The "Emperors" of this period (such as the ones you see crowned in-game) never controlled much more than Cyrodiil, and are largely forgotten to TES history. In 2E 896, Tiber Septim will complete his conquest of all Tamriel and usher in the Third Era.
433 years after THAT, Martin Septim will end the Oblivion Crisis be defeating Mehrunes Dagon, a Daedric Prince doing pretty much what Molag Bal is doing in ESO. That will mark the beginning of the Fourth Era. 200ish years later, the events in Skyrim will take place.Edited by builder680 on November 23, 2016 6:03PM0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »@Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation
I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.
Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.
There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.
I agree that the Dwemer should remain out of ESO. I don't agree that the changes to environment are even remotely lore-friendly or believable. Maybe if you don't mind environmental accuracy it's fine, but if you do then it's a change that makes no sense given all lore prior to Oblivion references Cyrodiil as jungle. For players post-Oblivion, that's fine to add new "lore books" where authors essentially say "What were all the other authors thinking, saying Cyrodiil is jungle? I have a theory involving MAGIC to explain it all away."
I don't think Dwemer belong in ESO. I also don't think there's anything wrong with calling a spade and spade and admitting Bethesda regularly retcon their games with no lore-friendly explanation. Even the book you linked is from ZOS, not Bethesda, and the Thu'um theory is essentially fan lore. Bethesda themselves just retcon without making any attempt to disguise it or address the inconsistencies.
It's fine if you don't find it believable. Because of the way the lore in TES series is built, through the unreliable narrator method, what you believe is as valid as what an NPC believes - which is what that book is, a theory by an NPC that I subscribe to because, personally, I find it to make a lot of sense.
I prefer to keep my opinion of MK's fanfictions out of the discussions to avoid enraging his fans :P
And what other player here said is what was told to us, too. What ESO adds regarding the lore is "Bethesda-approved". They said ESO is canon a few times, too.
There are ways to "weight" lore. I see that many people, yourself included, considers older lore to have more weight than new lore. And that's a fine way to look at it. I disagree with it, however, and I have my own system (which is kinda long, but basically I don't take almost anything as a fact). It basically prioritizes what seems to fit, and I feel like the White-Gold Tower gradually changing the climate of the region to accommodate the needs of the humans makes a lot of sense.Edited by Abeille on November 23, 2016 5:42PMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.4 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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No, not really. Just like in real life, we often don't know exactly how historical events from 1000 years ago went down and there are competing theories, some wildly contradictory, some even completely whacky. The existence of such theories isn't a retcon or an inaccuracy - on the contrary, it is often deliberately used to make the world more believable. It's not meant to be a proof of anything, just to show us different facets of Tamriela and its inhabitants. Maybe Talos did shout the jungle away, maybe he didn't, but it makes total sense that a fervently religious person would believe that's exactly what happened no matter what the truth is. Academics can have different opinions and that makes sense too.Darkstorne wrote: »How is the thu'um theory fan lore when it comes out of the mouth of an NPC in an official Bethesda game?
Part of it does, yep! I liked that nod. Enough that anyone who's read Kirkbride's material would recognize it, but without actually mentioning the jungles and any changes. Leaves it down to interpretation which is nice, though taking it as proof that Talos DID change Cyrodiil from jungle into forest and grassland just makes ESO even more lore inaccurate than it already is.
Only in the context of game development, because people immediately started wonderingwhat the development of an MMO means for the future of the single player games. The only official word we have from either company on the subject of lore states clearly that ESO is canon.Darkstorne wrote: »But Bethesda have always made it clear that ZOS are doing their own thing and ESO is separate from TES.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems to me the evidence shows that the dwemer got Zero Summed.
Which does make me wonder if the Zero Sum actually bypasses the linear time? Like if they did get zero summed wouldn't even going back in time not have them available?
I guess it is possible that they did achieve God Hood and are just chillin with Sithis0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh, by the way, since this is a Dwemer thread...
Orsinium Spoilers:I feel compelled to post the Dwemer of Rkindaleft.
I firmly believe that, despite using the Altmer model (like the Ayleid and the Maormer do, too), that guy right there is a Dwemer. I wish he had a beard, though.Edited by Abeille on November 23, 2016 6:36PMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.7 -
builder680✭✭✭The issue in my mind with the zero-sum theory (which definitely has its attractions) is that they shouldn't be remembered, or have left any evidence of their existence... because if they got zero-summed, then they never existed. At least, that is how I understand CHIM and zero-summing. Probably something to do with timelines and dragonbreaks, who knows.Edited by builder680 on November 23, 2016 6:40PM0
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DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Guys it does not matter dwemer are not dwarfs they are deep looking elves, if anything we need another beast race or a really short race.1
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Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh yes, absolutely. There's also the fact that he's referred to as "an elven mage" - suspiciously unspecific, isn't it?Oh, by the way, since this is a Dwemer thread...
Orsinium Spoilers:I feel compelled to post the Dwemer of Rkindaleft.
I firmly believe that, despite using the Altmer model (like the Ayleid and the Maormer do, too), that guy right there is a Dwemer. I wish he had a beard, though.2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Oh yes, absolutely. There's also the fact that he's referred to as "an elven mage" - suspiciously unspecific, isn't it?Oh, by the way, since this is a Dwemer thread...
Orsinium Spoilers:I feel compelled to post the Dwemer of Rkindaleft.
I firmly believe that, despite using the Altmer model (like the Ayleid and the Maormer do, too), that guy right there is a Dwemer. I wish he had a beard, though.
Right? The first time I did that quest, I shouted all over the map and nobody said anything, so I called a friend and told him to drag his scaly tail to Orsinium because I had something to show him, and we proceeded to freak out together after he saw it.
It is a great easter egg, don't you think? A lot of people won't think twice about it, I bet many people just ruled him out as an Altmer and left it like that. But long time fans will notice.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CosmicSoul wrote: »Guys it does not matter dwemer are not dwarfs they are deep looking elves, if anything we need another beast race or a really short race.
Yup! The Gummi Bears! Beast and small!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97QkO7nAn68
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FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh yes, absolutely. There's also the fact that he's referred to as "an elven mage" - suspiciously unspecific, isn't it?Oh, by the way, since this is a Dwemer thread...
Orsinium Spoilers:I feel compelled to post the Dwemer of Rkindaleft.
I firmly believe that, despite using the Altmer model (like the Ayleid and the Maormer do, too), that guy right there is a Dwemer. I wish he had a beard, though.
Right? The first time I did that quest, I shouted all over the map and nobody said anything, so I called a friend and told him to drag his scaly tail to Orsinium because I had something to show him, and we proceeded to freak out together after he saw it.
It is a great easter egg, don't you think? A lot of people won't think twice about it, I bet many people just ruled him out as an Altmer and left it like that. But long time fans will notice.
Now I wanna go do that quest again. I have been fascinated with the Dwemer ever since I first encountered some Dwemer ruins in Skyrim. I even made a character that studies the Dwemer. He has full Dwemer robes and uses the Dwemer spider pet and a maelstrom staff and I shamefully admit I will most likely buy the Dwemer crown crates if they get released.0 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭Normally I would say that it could/would never happen but then I think of the metaphysical wibbly wobbly timey wimey thing called the Dragon Break where the world basically ends then starts over again.0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Nope. Never. ESO is set in the second era, eight hundred or so years before the first of the other TES games which are set at the end of the third era (with skyrim in the fourth era)... the dwemer vanished in the first third of the first era, that is about... two and a half millenia ago from ESO time.I wonder if Zenimax would ever consider bringing back the dwarfs as a playable race. Maybe a new dlc???
They are gone.
We who played Morrowind know why they went away.
Noone knows exactly where they went, or even if they went somewhere, or became nowhere.
Noone will find out within the next millenia that we know of, and many, many will be spending all their life searching.
Thus... no playable race, no way.
...magical flashbacks into times when the dwemer were still around to see one of their cities in its full glory on the other hand... that might well come with a quest someday. I mean, we had temporal excursions to when chimer were fighting nedes, direnni fighting alessians, and so on... no reason we could not visit the dwemer too, or the war against the sload, or... any dozends of other historical events!
Actaully at this point in time... Yagrum quite possibly is neither recluse, or corprus infected just yet, but still frantically searching for whatever happened to the dwemer (spoiler - he will never find out, and neither will anyone else up until the fourth era by the best of TES knowledge). It is still a few centuries before Dargoth Ur wakes and starts spreading corprus around after all...
Yeah, in TES lore, the dwemer are just underground elves with dusky skin and a preference for babylonian style beards... but size-wise no more dwarfy then your slightly below average height dunmer. Its those towering atmorans that called them "dwarf", probbaly before figuring out that most of the other races are shorter then them...FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.
Yeah... I guess all those are the generic fantasy players with little knowledge of nTES lore, who just stumble into ESO from tolkien-land or WoW, and right away go: "Where's dem dwarves?"There's a very simple reason for that: 95% of players don't ask for Dwemer, they ask for dwarves. Think about it.0 -
LMar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkstorne wrote: »How is the thu'um theory fan lore when it comes out of the mouth of an NPC in an official Bethesda game?
Part of it does, yep! I liked that nod. Enough that anyone who's read Kirkbride's material would recognize it, but without actually mentioning the jungles and any changes. Leaves it down to interpretation which is nice, though taking it as proof that Talos DID change Cyrodiil from jungle into forest and grassland just makes ESO even more lore inaccurate than it already is.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Well, actually it has been stated by the writers and Lore master of ESO that they bounce new ideas/ new materiel off the Bethesda team. Also, both ZOS and Bethesda are owned by Zenimax Media which Bethesda created in 1999, so they really are the same company, just different divisions.
Yes, Zenimax owns ZOS and BGS, but they're definitely not the same company. Two completely different dev teams. That would be like saying Blizzard's World of Warcraft team and Treyarch's Call of Duty team are the same company, just because the same parent company owns them both.
They claim to bounce ideas off Bethesda, and on some level I'm sure they do, or did. But Bethesda have always made it clear that ZOS are doing their own thing and ESO is separate from TES. I assume that's why they're allowed to get away with so many lore inaccuracies and weird crap like quite literally thousands of different emperors within the span of a year, with names like xXLegolasXx. Simpler to allow for lore errors, wipe them under the table in favour of making a fun game, and hoping no-one cares. I'm fine with that, but don't think ZOS should take that far enough to the extent that Dwemer reappear. I don't disagree with you - this whole tangent kicked off because someone claimed Bethesda never retcon. I just wanted to point out that they do, frequently
The very head of Bethesda said that ESO is canon. Not sure where you are getting your info. In lore the second era histories mention that during the Interregnum, i.e., what we are going through now, saw various petty warlords taking up the Ruby Red Throne but never lasting long. And with history books being burned or never being written we don't know the names of all these warlords etc. So, well, they might be called whatever they like.Edited by LMar on November 24, 2016 10:31AM"If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
"Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"2 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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Damn you @Publius_Scipio! Now I have that theme song stuck in my head, and I didn't even hit play on the video!Publius_Scipio wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »Guys it does not matter dwemer are not dwarfs they are deep looking elves, if anything we need another beast race or a really short race.
Yup! The Gummi Bears! Beast and small!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97QkO7nAn68
Bouncing here and there and everywhere...
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp3 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Nope. Never. ESO is set in the second era, eight hundred or so years before the first of the other TES games which are set at the end of the third era (with skyrim in the fourth era)... the dwemer vanished in the first third of the first era, that is about... two and a half millenia ago from ESO time.I wonder if Zenimax would ever consider bringing back the dwarfs as a playable race. Maybe a new dlc???
They are gone.
We who played Morrowind know why they went away.
Noone knows exactly where they went, or even if they went somewhere, or became nowhere.
Noone will find out within the next millenia that we know of, and many, many will be spending all their life searching.
Thus... no playable race, no way.
...magical flashbacks into times when the dwemer were still around to see one of their cities in its full glory on the other hand... that might well come with a quest someday. I mean, we had temporal excursions to when chimer were fighting nedes, direnni fighting alessians, and so on... no reason we could not visit the dwemer too, or the war against the sload, or... any dozends of other historical events!
Actaully at this point in time... Yagrum quite possibly is neither recluse, or corprus infected just yet, but still frantically searching for whatever happened to the dwemer (spoiler - he will never find out, and neither will anyone else up until the fourth era by the best of TES knowledge). It is still a few centuries before Dargoth Ur wakes and starts spreading corprus around after all...
Yeah, in TES lore, the dwemer are just underground elves with dusky skin and a preference for babylonian style beards... but size-wise no more dwarfy then your slightly below average height dunmer. Its those towering atmorans that called them "dwarf", probbaly before figuring out that most of the other races are shorter then them...FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.
Yeah... I guess all those are the generic fantasy players with little knowledge of nTES lore, who just stumble into ESO from tolkien-land or WoW, and right away go: "Where's dem dwarves?"There's a very simple reason for that: 95% of players don't ask for Dwemer, they ask for dwarves. Think about it.
Actually considering there goals was to transcend the physical world and since the device they created was designed to do that and when they used the tools on it and just vanished one can easily assume that there was an 70 percent chance it worked. Who knows they could come back as bigger and more powerful tyrants then before.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dwemer (aka dwarfs) are extinct in the time of ESO.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dwemer (aka dwarfs) are extinct in the time of ESO.
They are not dwarfs that's just the name nords gave them they actually look like elves.0 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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It is still a commonly used mannish name for the Dwemer, so yes, they are dwarves. Just not like any other dwarves we're used to.CosmicSoul wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dwemer (aka dwarfs) are extinct in the time of ESO.
They are not dwarfs that's just the name nords gave them they actually look like elves.0 -
Shogunami✭✭✭✭CosmicSoul wrote: »They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.
With any luck the Dwemer are long extinct and will never come back. Were they to return it could spell doom for all of Tamriel, seeing as they're fans of killing, enslaving and manipulating all other races to the benefit of the Dwemer.
Watch this video about secrets of the dwemer and by the way they are not dwarfs according to the video, they are deep elves, from this video it does sound like they transcended like they wanted so the possibility of them coming back can happen but not likely in eso.
Did you perhaps quote me by accident?
I never said anything about Dwarves.
However, it is possible that they transcended the mortal plane of Nirn but I doubt it - I believe they broke the status quo/ruleset of the fabric of existence and thus were expelled, so to speak. If they returned and weren't evil, vindictive, racist and murderous - they wouldn't be Dwemer anymore, they would have become another race. So I really hope the Dwemer will never return, because as I said, it could spell doom for all of Tamriel.Darkstorne wrote: »Narrative continuity isn't an excuse. It is part of what makes the TES series one of the better series' out there. There aren't massive rewrites or retcons on the basis of what "might be cool"
Clearly, you didn't play Oblivion
Lore on Cyrodiil, pre-TES4: "It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. Its center, the grassland of the Nibenay Valley, is enclosed by an equatorial rain forest and broken up by rivers."
It was supposed to be a much more humid environment, which is understandable given how the Imperials were always modelled after the Romans. Then the Lord of the Rings film trilogy happened and Bethesda decided to turn tropical Cyrodiil into the gently rolling hills and oak forests of medieval Britain, and even threw out all the Roman-esque Imperial army outfits and replaced them with medieval inspired rusty plate. Luckily they backtracked on a lot of those armour changes with Skyrim, but the environment of Cyrodiil is now set in stone.
I know some people like to use the unofficial Thu'um lore fix here, saying Tiber Septim used the power of the voice to shout away the jungles of Cyrodiil and replace them with fertile grasslands and deciduous forests and woodland, but keep in mind that takes place long after ESO, and in ESO we still have a non-jungle, British countryside Cyrodiil.
Well that's what happened. Maybe not using a Thu'um, Tiber Septim way outleveled such a pleb skill. He attained Chim and he altered the existence of Cyrodiil throughout the timeline - in the new existence Cyrodiil became a lush forest both in past, present and future. So it IS lore accurate. Unless we go backwards in ES time and in another timeline/universe, sure we'd have jungles instead, but that is NOT lore accurate.
Cyrodiil went from a harsh and humid rain forest to a lush and temperate rain forest.
That's also the thing about Dragon Breaks - the people living in the world will have no understanding of it, they will not experience it, they will simply be in the new reality all of a sudden, everything synched and ready to go. Only a select few can notice these changes and maybe record them in books, maybe Dragons can. But in general nothing will have changed for almost anyone.Edited by Shogunami on November 24, 2016 9:00AM-
"I think Orcs first turned a bear head into food because it looks amazing." -Orzorga.0 -
EvilCroc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not before BGS will bring it back in main game series. And it will never happen, I guess.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I would be for this just to spite all of the "loremasters" that go into a rage and start quoting Elder Scrolls scripture every time someone makes this topic.Edited by timidobserver on November 24, 2016 9:40AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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The change in the Eras is all about the political structure of Tamriel.
The Second Era ended when Versidue-Shaie overthrew the Reman dynasty and began the time of the Akaviri Potentates. The Dwemer were long gone by then.WhitePawPrints wrote: »
I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.DrkHunter86 wrote: »
Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.
Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.
Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.
I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.
*insert NERRD GIF*- The Merethic Era ended when the Camoran Dynasty was founded.
- The First Era ended when the Reman Dynasty ended.
- The Second Era ended when the Third Empire of Tamriel was founded.
- The Third Era ended when the Septim Dynasty ended.
If you take the metaphysical angle, and don't mind a bit of historical fiction, here's the start of the Second Era, from (my favourite book) 2920 TLYotFE:
31 Evening Star, 2920
Ebonheart, Morrowind
In the smoky catacombs beneath the city where Sotha Sil forged the future with his arcane clockwork apparatus, something unforeseen happened. An oily bubble seeped from a long trusted gear and popped. Immediately, the wizard's attention was drawn to it and to the chain that tiny action triggered. A pipe shifted half an inch to the left. A tread skipped. A coil rewound itself and began spinning in a counter direction. A piston that had been thrusting left-right, left-right, for millennia suddenly began shifting right-left. Nothing broke, but everything changed.
“It cannot be fixed now,” said the sorcerer quietly.
He looked up through a crick in the ceiling into the night sky. It was midnight. The second era, the age of chaos, had begun.
You don't get out much, do you?0 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, not really. Just like in real life, we often don't know exactly how historical events from 1000 years ago went down and there are competing theories, some wildly contradictory, some even completely whacky. The existence of such theories isn't a retcon
Sorry, we're getting wires crossed somewhere. I completely agree about the conflicting theories and multi-author lore setup within the game. In particular I love the Redguard's history and the multiple theories on what happened in Yokuda that caused them to leave. I never said the in-game theories themselves are retcons (or meant it that way), I mean Bethesda's decision to change Cyrodiil from jungle into British countryside was the retcon. All the in-game lore we have about this topic was then added after Bethesda's change to try and pretend this was always a contentious in-game theory and discussion. Prior to Oblivion, it was fact.
I mean, the source stating Cyrodiil was jungle was a geographical and cultural report of the Imperial Empire, giving a brief outline of the different provinces and what to expect there. It was written by an Imperial, for Imperials, and was essentially the go-to travel guide for an entire era. I think the citizens of Cyrodiil would have noticed the error 0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »I would be for this just to spite all of the "loremasters" that go into a rage and start quoting Elder Scrolls scripture every time someone makes this topic.
Edited by Mojmir on November 24, 2016 10:17AM1 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »No, not really. Just like in real life, we often don't know exactly how historical events from 1000 years ago went down and there are competing theories, some wildly contradictory, some even completely whacky. The existence of such theories isn't a retcon
Sorry, we're getting wires crossed somewhere. I completely agree about the conflicting theories and multi-author lore setup within the game. In particular I love the Redguard's history and the multiple theories on what happened in Yokuda that caused them to leave. I never said the in-game theories themselves are retcons (or meant it that way), I mean Bethesda's decision to change Cyrodiil from jungle into British countryside was the retcon. All the in-game lore we have about this topic was then added after Bethesda's change to try and pretend this was always a contentious in-game theory and discussion. Prior to Oblivion, it was fact.
I mean, the source stating Cyrodiil was jungle was a geographical and cultural report of the Imperial Empire, giving a brief outline of the different provinces and what to expect there. It was written by an Imperial, for Imperials, and was essentially the go-to travel guide for an entire era. I think the citizens of Cyrodiil would have noticed the error
Afaik, the reports do not have dates, do they? I don't remember them having dates, so correct me if I am wrong.
They might have been written before the White-Gold Tower finished changing the climate, for all that we know. If that theory is true, of course.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.0 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »No, not really. Just like in real life, we often don't know exactly how historical events from 1000 years ago went down and there are competing theories, some wildly contradictory, some even completely whacky. The existence of such theories isn't a retcon
Sorry, we're getting wires crossed somewhere. I completely agree about the conflicting theories and multi-author lore setup within the game. In particular I love the Redguard's history and the multiple theories on what happened in Yokuda that caused them to leave. I never said the in-game theories themselves are retcons (or meant it that way), I mean Bethesda's decision to change Cyrodiil from jungle into British countryside was the retcon. All the in-game lore we have about this topic was then added after Bethesda's change to try and pretend this was always a contentious in-game theory and discussion. Prior to Oblivion, it was fact.
I mean, the source stating Cyrodiil was jungle was a geographical and cultural report of the Imperial Empire, giving a brief outline of the different provinces and what to expect there. It was written by an Imperial, for Imperials, and was essentially the go-to travel guide for an entire era. I think the citizens of Cyrodiil would have noticed the error
Afaik, the reports do not have dates, do they? I don't remember them having dates, so correct me if I am wrong.
They might have been written before the White-Gold Tower finished changing the climate, for all that we know. If that theory is true, of course.
The PGE? That was written during the early years of Tiber Septim's rule. That's still not even remotely my point though
I only started this whole tangent because someone claimed Bethesda never retcon their lore. Oblivion was the ultimate retcon. All lore up to that point stated jungle, and Roman Empire style armour designs. In-game we had British countryside and medieval-fantasy plate armour designs. They backtracked on the armour again with Skyrim, but ESO has opted to keep the British countryside aesthetic and created some new lore (that you linked) to support it. I'm not saying the lore is inaccurate, I'm saying the existence of new lore to support the retcon, doesn't mean the retcon never happened. Bethesda don't treat their lore like a holy grail, and instead will happily ignore and retcon chunks of it in order to tailor their games visually towards popular culture of our time.Edited by Darkstorne on November 24, 2016 10:39AM0
