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Bring back the dwarf race???

  • Sigma957
    Sigma957
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    They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.
  • Shogunami
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    Sigma957 wrote: »
    They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.

    With any luck the Dwemer are long extinct and will never come back. Were they to return it could spell doom for all of Tamriel, seeing as they're fans of killing, enslaving and manipulating all other races to the benefit of the Dwemer.
    Edited by Shogunami on November 23, 2016 8:53AM
    -
    "I think Orcs first turned a bear head into food because it looks amazing." -Orzorga.
  • DragonBound
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    Slylok wrote: »
    FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.

    Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.

    I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.

    Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.

    Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.

    I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.

    *insert NERRD GIF*
    Firstly it is called an Era and not an Age, this is not Dragon Age and secondly the Dwemer vanished during the battle of red mountain which was only half way through the First Era.

    Also if you want to know what Dwarves in ES are, they were only called that because the ones who named them that were giant so they looked short by comparison but by all means they are the same height as most of the other races, they are also actually called "Dwemer" and are a race of technological advanced elves.

    There is no need to get upset that he called it age over era.
    Edited by DragonBound on November 23, 2016 9:45AM
  • DragonBound
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    Shogunami wrote: »
    Sigma957 wrote: »
    They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.

    With any luck the Dwemer are long extinct and will never come back. Were they to return it could spell doom for all of Tamriel, seeing as they're fans of killing, enslaving and manipulating all other races to the benefit of the Dwemer.

    Watch this video about secrets of the dwemer and by the way they are not dwarfs according to the video, they are deep elves, from this video it does sound like they transcended like they wanted so the possibility of them coming back can happen but not likely in eso.
    Edited by DragonBound on November 23, 2016 10:04AM
  • SaRuZ
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    They explained what happened to the dwemmer in Morrowind :D

    Indeed they did.

    "Kagrenac, the great Dwemer engineer, used profane tools (Wraithguard, Keening, and Sunder) and specific rituals to attach the Dwemer race to the power of the Heart of Lorkhan; which, for one reason or another, caused the destruction of the entire race."

    However, was it really their obliteration? It simply says they vanished, save one, Yagrum Bagarn.




    Edited by SaRuZ on November 23, 2016 10:05AM
  • Iluvrien
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    Iluvrien wrote: »
    Mojmir wrote: »
    You could also know basic Elder Scrolls lore to know that this won't happen.

    You could also not care about the lore

    On which basis you could also play another game.

    OR this one could adapt,see below.
    Mojmir wrote: »
    You could also know basic Elder Scrolls lore to know that this won't happen.

    You could also not care about the lore

    True but again its a thing with Bethesda so it doesn't matter what you I or anyone else think or want. That said I like the lore the way it is but that's me.

    Exactly,they make the lore and can expand the game further,Instead of excuses to confine it.

    No. Narrative continuity isn't an excuse. It is part of what makes the TES series one of the better series' out there. There aren't massive rewrites or retcons on the basis of what "might be cool" if it is likely to damage the long-term health of the setting. Resolving one of the series' major mysteries just so they could bring another playable race into ESO is a massive change.

    If the setting really means so little to a player, then why join a game that is so steeped in it in the first place?

    Or to put it another way, if the setting means so little to people in the first place then why ask for Dwemer at all? They are, after all, a setting-specific construct.
  • Carraig
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    In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

    That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.
    Knight-Captain of the Tamriel's Elite Sentinels ( EU server-PC)
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever, but the cautious do not live at all."
  • SaRuZ
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    I agree. There are many MMORPG's out there but I have never had any desire to play a single one. The only reason I play ESO is for the TES feel. I believe the issue is a lot of players came from WoW, EQ or others and never played TES prior or only played Skyrim. I've put thousands of hours into these games.

    Morrowind blew my mind when it came out, it was the only game of that size where you could go anywhere and do anything. There was no map travel. You had Divine Intervention scrolls, Mark/Recall spell and Stilt Strider to travel.

    Oblivion was a huge step up in combat mechanics but a huge step back in class specifications/factions. Oblivion's story was very bland in comparison. Hero of Kvatch or Nerevarine Reincarnate, Dragonborn? It's obvious which are more engaging.

    Skyrim revamped it and improved even more on the mechanics. The story was on an epic scale as it should be but once again traded locked gameplay styles and exploration for jack-of-all-trades and fast travel.

    ESO is good for contiuation and a filler between Skyrim & TES6(I won't ever buy Skyrim Enhanced, I've played it to death and won't waste my time going back) ZoS sacrificed Quality for Quantity in ESO. I understand why they did it. It honestly would not be practical or possible to create a single zone that matches Vvardenfell or Skyrim with Tamriel in it's entirety in the game. I don't assume anyone is under the illusion that ESO's Tamriel is as vibrant as an TES experience. They did a good job for what it is but it will never compare to what Bethesda has and will continue to create.
    Edited by SaRuZ on November 23, 2016 10:54AM
  • Eweroun
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    AzuraKin wrote: »
    ye there only 1 dwemer left and he kinda of a recluse.

    And he should be,guys a freak lol

    should pay a visit to that recluse again...

    DIGGING UP MORROWIND!!! :wink:
    |Lunar Lattice - Guildmaster / Fullmoon group raidlead|
    |Potato Knights - former core member|
    |former dd-"The Phoenix Reborn", former raidlead "Omnia Vincit /Playdead"|

    clears: vCrag HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM (+2) - vCR+3 - vSS HM
  • Abeille
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    Carraig wrote: »
    In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

    That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

    And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
    [muffled fangirling noises]
    Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.

    Meet my characters:
    Command: Do the thing.

    Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
    Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
    Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
    Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
    Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
    Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
    Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
    Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
    Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
    Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.
  • AzuraKin
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    here a thought, instead of bringing back the dwemer, lets just bring back the giant goblins.
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    oh wait i forgot those are the orcs.
    v160 spellsword (nightblade)
    v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
    v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
    v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
    v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
    v160 assassin (nightblade)
    v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
    v160 spellsword (nightblade)
  • Carraig
    Carraig
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    Abeille wrote: »
    Carraig wrote: »
    In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

    That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

    And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
    [muffled fangirling noises]

    unless he is patient Zero, found by the same Telvani wizard who kept him in Morrowind. That wizard was quite old as well, if I remember correctly.
    Edited by Carraig on November 23, 2016 10:56AM
    Knight-Captain of the Tamriel's Elite Sentinels ( EU server-PC)
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever, but the cautious do not live at all."
  • Abeille
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    Carraig wrote: »
    Abeille wrote: »
    Carraig wrote: »
    In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

    That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

    And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
    [muffled fangirling noises]

    unless he is patient Zero, found by the same Telvani wizard who kept him in Morrowind. That wizard was quite old as well, if I remember correctly.

    Dagoth Ur is still snoring, he couldn't have created corprus yet.
    Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.

    Meet my characters:
    Command: Do the thing.

    Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
    Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
    Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
    Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
    Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
    Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
    Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
    Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
    Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
    Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.
  • Code2501
    Code2501
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    I don't wish it but there were retcons of a sort in the past, see The warp in the west.
    The issue of dwemer not being present on Nirn since the first era is fairly well established though so not likely to change up to the later fourth era at least.

    I doubt the Dwemer will return en-masse to Nirn, If they still exist they are probably in a pocket universe somewhere, perhaps some kind of steampunk nirvana.

    Frankly, the dwemer were less interesting than the devices they left behind, so its not a huge loss.

    I'd much rather see sload (wheres N'Gasta?) or the various akavir races make an appearance than the dwemer. An invasion of Kamal is supposed to happen in the second era so that would be a grand way within currently known history to introduce another race to TESO, and at the same time they could add some much desired ice magic.

    Infact, the kingdom of Rimmen in Elsweyr is documented in 1st edition PGttE to be essentially akaviri refugees at the time of TESO and for 300 years after. It does not specify which akaviri races live there, but it could include all of them (Kamal, Tsaesci, Tang Mo and Ka Po'Tun)

    Heck, they could even have the Imga become a significant race with the return of Falinesti, which happens in the second era.

    There are many options available that don't conflict with known history that would be much more exciting than the sudden re-appearance of living Dwemer.
    Edited by Code2501 on November 23, 2016 11:48AM
  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
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    Slylok wrote: »
    FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.

    Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.

    I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.

    Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.

    Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.

    I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.

    *insert NERRD GIF*
    The Second Era ended when Versidue-Shaie overthrew the Reman dynasty and began the time of the Akaviri Potentates. The Dwemer were long gone by then.
    Iluvrien wrote: »

    Or to put it another way, if the setting means so little to people in the first place then why ask for Dwemer at all? They are, after all, a setting-specific construct.
    There's a very simple reason for that: 95% of players don't ask for Dwemer, they ask for dwarves. Think about it.
  • Darkstorne
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    Iluvrien wrote: »
    Narrative continuity isn't an excuse. It is part of what makes the TES series one of the better series' out there. There aren't massive rewrites or retcons on the basis of what "might be cool"

    Clearly, you didn't play Oblivion :tongue:

    Lore on Cyrodiil, pre-TES4: "It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. Its center, the grassland of the Nibenay Valley, is enclosed by an equatorial rain forest and broken up by rivers."

    It was supposed to be a much more humid environment, which is understandable given how the Imperials were always modelled after the Romans. Then the Lord of the Rings film trilogy happened and Bethesda decided to turn tropical Cyrodiil into the gently rolling hills and oak forests of medieval Britain, and even threw out all the Roman-esque Imperial army outfits and replaced them with medieval inspired rusty plate. Luckily they backtracked on a lot of those armour changes with Skyrim, but the environment of Cyrodiil is now set in stone.

    I know some people like to use the unofficial Thu'um lore fix here, saying Tiber Septim used the power of the voice to shout away the jungles of Cyrodiil and replace them with fertile grasslands and deciduous forests and woodland, but keep in mind that takes place long after ESO, and in ESO we still have a non-jungle, British countryside Cyrodiil.

    I'm still very much in favour of sticking to lore and keeping the Chimer out of ESO. But let's not pretend Bethesda aren't fond of ignoring their own lore in favour of mimicking popular culture. Heck, even Whiterun in Skyrim ignores environmental lore since despite claiming to be tundra is clearly modelled after the plains of Rohan - a completely different biome. Tundra in autumn is not brown grasses, but Bethesda will always Bethesda. This is tundra in autumn, and what a lore friendly Skyrim should look like:

    forces-of-nature-red-autumn-landscape-snow-colors-alaskan-mountains-alaska-plants-tundra-fall.jpg
  • Abeille
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    @Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

    I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.
    Edited by Abeille on November 23, 2016 12:47PM
    Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.

    Meet my characters:
    Command: Do the thing.

    Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
    Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
    Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
    Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
    Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
    Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
    Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
    Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
    Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
    Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.
  • Flameheart
    Flameheart
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    Hammer of Lore swings down and critically hits TO.

    Edited by Flameheart on November 23, 2016 3:13PM
    Sometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.

    So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.

    Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
    Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
    Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)







  • Darkstorne
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    Abeille wrote: »
    @Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

    I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

    Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.
    Edited by Darkstorne on November 23, 2016 1:32PM
  • Abeille
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    Darkstorne wrote: »
    Abeille wrote: »
    @Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

    I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

    Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

    There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.
    Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.

    Meet my characters:
    Command: Do the thing.

    Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
    Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
    Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
    Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
    Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
    Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
    Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
    Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
    Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
    Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.
  • Cazzy
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    This always happens, hahaha <3
  • Carraig
    Carraig
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    Abeille wrote: »
    Carraig wrote: »
    Abeille wrote: »
    Carraig wrote: »
    In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

    That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

    And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
    [muffled fangirling noises]

    unless he is patient Zero, found by the same Telvani wizard who kept him in Morrowind. That wizard was quite old as well, if I remember correctly.

    Dagoth Ur is still snoring, he couldn't have created corprus yet.

    Good point.

    Knight-Captain of the Tamriel's Elite Sentinels ( EU server-PC)
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever, but the cautious do not live at all."
  • Cloudless
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    Numidium OP plz ZOS nerf.
  • Enodoc
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    Rosveen wrote: »
    Slylok wrote: »
    FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.
    Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.
    I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.
    Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.
    Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.
    I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.
    *insert NERRD GIF*
    The Second Era ended when Versidue-Shaie overthrew the Reman dynasty and began the time of the Akaviri Potentates. The Dwemer were long gone by then.
    The change in the Eras is all about the political structure of Tamriel.
    • The Merethic Era ended when the Camoran Dynasty was founded.
    • The First Era ended when the Reman Dynasty ended.
    • The Second Era ended when the Third Empire of Tamriel was founded.
    • The Third Era ended when the Septim Dynasty ended.
    Incidentally, I'm hoping that the Fifth Era is still a way off. 201 years isn't long enough for an Era.


    If you take the metaphysical angle, and don't mind a bit of historical fiction, here's the start of the Second Era, from (my favourite book) 2920 TLYotFE:
    31 Evening Star, 2920
    Ebonheart, Morrowind

    In the smoky catacombs beneath the city where Sotha Sil forged the future with his arcane clockwork apparatus, something unforeseen happened. An oily bubble seeped from a long trusted gear and popped. Immediately, the wizard's attention was drawn to it and to the chain that tiny action triggered. A pipe shifted half an inch to the left. A tread skipped. A coil rewound itself and began spinning in a counter direction. A piston that had been thrusting left-right, left-right, for millennia suddenly began shifting right-left. Nothing broke, but everything changed.
    “It cannot be fixed now,” said the sorcerer quietly.
    He looked up through a crick in the ceiling into the night sky. It was midnight. The second era, the age of chaos, had begun.
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  • Mic1007
    Mic1007
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    If they haven't returned by Skyrim time, ESO will not have them.
    @Mic1007
    Champion Rank 900+
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    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Darkstorne
    Darkstorne
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    Abeille wrote: »
    Darkstorne wrote: »
    Abeille wrote: »
    @Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

    I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

    Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

    There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.

    I agree that the Dwemer should remain out of ESO. I don't agree that the changes to environment are even remotely lore-friendly or believable. Maybe if you don't mind environmental accuracy it's fine, but if you do then it's a change that makes no sense given all lore prior to Oblivion references Cyrodiil as jungle. For players post-Oblivion, that's fine to add new "lore books" where authors essentially say "What were all the other authors thinking, saying Cyrodiil is jungle? I have a theory involving MAGIC to explain it all away."

    I don't think Dwemer belong in ESO. I also don't think there's anything wrong with calling a spade and spade and admitting Bethesda regularly retcon their games with no lore-friendly explanation. Even the book you linked is from ZOS, not Bethesda, and the Thu'um theory is essentially fan lore. Bethesda themselves just retcon without making any attempt to disguise it or address the inconsistencies.
  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
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    How is the thu'um theory fan lore when it comes out of the mouth of an NPC in an official Bethesda game?
  • SantieClaws
    SantieClaws
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    Khajiit would far rather race horses or camels than sit on the back of a dwemer.

    This one she does not think such a thing would ever catch on! Where would we put the saddle yes?

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws
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  • wenchmore420b14_ESO
    wenchmore420b14_ESO
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    Darkstorne wrote: »
    Abeille wrote: »
    Darkstorne wrote: »
    Abeille wrote: »
    @Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

    I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

    Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

    There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.

    I agree that the Dwemer should remain out of ESO. I don't agree that the changes to environment are even remotely lore-friendly or believable. Maybe if you don't mind environmental accuracy it's fine, but if you do then it's a change that makes no sense given all lore prior to Oblivion references Cyrodiil as jungle. For players post-Oblivion, that's fine to add new "lore books" where authors essentially say "What were all the other authors thinking, saying Cyrodiil is jungle? I have a theory involving MAGIC to explain it all away."

    I don't think Dwemer belong in ESO. I also don't think there's anything wrong with calling a spade and spade and admitting Bethesda regularly retcon their games with no lore-friendly explanation. Even the book you linked is from ZOS, not Bethesda, and the Thu'um theory is essentially fan lore. Bethesda themselves just retcon without making any attempt to disguise it or address the inconsistencies.


    Well, actually it has been stated by the writers and Lore master of ESO that they bounce new ideas/ new materiel off the Bethesda team. Also, both ZOS and Bethesda are owned by Zenimax Media which Bethesda created in 1999, so they really are the same company, just different divisions.
    Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
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  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Nerf Dwarf @ forum! Too much hype
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on November 23, 2016 5:20PM
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