Bring back the dwarf race???

Sigma957

They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.

Shogunami

Sigma957 wrote: »

They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.

With any luck the Dwemer are long extinct and will never come back. Were they to return it could spell doom for all of Tamriel, seeing as they're fans of killing, enslaving and manipulating all other races to the benefit of the Dwemer.

DragonBound

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

DrkHunter86 wrote: »

Slylok wrote: »

FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.

Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.

I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.

Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.

Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.

I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.

*insert NERRD GIF*

Firstly it is called an Era and not an Age, this is not Dragon Age and secondly the Dwemer vanished during the battle of red mountain which was only half way through the First Era.

Also if you want to know what Dwarves in ES are, they were only called that because the ones who named them that were giant so they looked short by comparison but by all means they are the same height as most of the other races, they are also actually called "Dwemer" and are a race of technological advanced elves.

There is no need to get upset that he called it age over era.

DragonBound

Shogunami wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

They may reappear in a future ES game ( sometime after skyrim) but won't happen in ESO.

With any luck the Dwemer are long extinct and will never come back. Were they to return it could spell doom for all of Tamriel, seeing as they're fans of killing, enslaving and manipulating all other races to the benefit of the Dwemer.

Watch this video about secrets of the dwemer and by the way they are not dwarfs according to the video, they are deep elves, from this video it does sound like they transcended like they wanted so the possibility of them coming back can happen but not likely in eso.

SaRuZ

puffytheslayer wrote: »

They explained what happened to the dwemmer in Morrowind

Indeed they did.

"Kagrenac, the great Dwemer engineer, used profane tools (Wraithguard, Keening, and Sunder) and specific rituals to attach the Dwemer race to the power of the Heart of Lorkhan; which, for one reason or another, caused the destruction of the entire race."

However, was it really their obliteration? It simply says they vanished, save one, Yagrum Bagarn.

Iluvrien

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

You could also know basic Elder Scrolls lore to know that this won't happen.

You could also not care about the lore

On which basis you could also play another game.

OR this one could adapt,see below.

DrkHunter86 wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

You could also know basic Elder Scrolls lore to know that this won't happen.

You could also not care about the lore

True but again its a thing with Bethesda so it doesn't matter what you I or anyone else think or want. That said I like the lore the way it is but that's me.

Exactly,they make the lore and can expand the game further,Instead of excuses to confine it.

No. Narrative continuity isn't an excuse. It is part of what makes the TES series one of the better series' out there. There aren't massive rewrites or retcons on the basis of what "might be cool" if it is likely to damage the long-term health of the setting. Resolving one of the series' major mysteries just so they could bring another playable race into ESO is a massive change.

If the setting really means so little to a player, then why join a game that is so steeped in it in the first place?

Or to put it another way, if the setting means so little to people in the first place then why ask for Dwemer at all? They are, after all, a setting-specific construct.

Carraig

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

SaRuZ

I agree. There are many MMORPG's out there but I have never had any desire to play a single one. The only reason I play ESO is for the TES feel. I believe the issue is a lot of players came from WoW, EQ or others and never played TES prior or only played Skyrim. I've put thousands of hours into these games.

Morrowind blew my mind when it came out, it was the only game of that size where you could go anywhere and do anything. There was no map travel. You had Divine Intervention scrolls, Mark/Recall spell and Stilt Strider to travel.

Oblivion was a huge step up in combat mechanics but a huge step back in class specifications/factions. Oblivion's story was very bland in comparison. Hero of Kvatch or Nerevarine Reincarnate, Dragonborn? It's obvious which are more engaging.

Skyrim revamped it and improved even more on the mechanics. The story was on an epic scale as it should be but once again traded locked gameplay styles and exploration for jack-of-all-trades and fast travel.

ESO is good for contiuation and a filler between Skyrim & TES6(I won't ever buy Skyrim Enhanced, I've played it to death and won't waste my time going back) ZoS sacrificed Quality for Quantity in ESO. I understand why they did it. It honestly would not be practical or possible to create a single zone that matches Vvardenfell or Skyrim with Tamriel in it's entirety in the game. I don't assume anyone is under the illusion that ESO's Tamriel is as vibrant as an TES experience. They did a good job for what it is but it will never compare to what Bethesda has and will continue to create.

Eweroun

Mojmir wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

ye there only 1 dwemer left and he kinda of a recluse.

And he should be,guys a freak lol

should pay a visit to that recluse again...

DIGGING UP MORROWIND!!!

Abeille

Carraig wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
[muffled fangirling noises]

AzuraKin

here a thought, instead of bringing back the dwemer, lets just bring back the giant goblins.
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oh wait i forgot those are the orcs.

Carraig

Abeille wrote: »

Carraig wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
[muffled fangirling noises]

unless he is patient Zero, found by the same Telvani wizard who kept him in Morrowind. That wizard was quite old as well, if I remember correctly.

Abeille

Carraig wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Carraig wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
[muffled fangirling noises]

unless he is patient Zero, found by the same Telvani wizard who kept him in Morrowind. That wizard was quite old as well, if I remember correctly.

Dagoth Ur is still snoring, he couldn't have created corprus yet.

Code2501

I don't wish it but there were retcons of a sort in the past, see The warp in the west.
The issue of dwemer not being present on Nirn since the first era is fairly well established though so not likely to change up to the later fourth era at least.

I doubt the Dwemer will return en-masse to Nirn, If they still exist they are probably in a pocket universe somewhere, perhaps some kind of steampunk nirvana.

Frankly, the dwemer were less interesting than the devices they left behind, so its not a huge loss.

I'd much rather see sload (wheres N'Gasta?) or the various akavir races make an appearance than the dwemer. An invasion of Kamal is supposed to happen in the second era so that would be a grand way within currently known history to introduce another race to TESO, and at the same time they could add some much desired ice magic.

Infact, the kingdom of Rimmen in Elsweyr is documented in 1st edition PGttE to be essentially akaviri refugees at the time of TESO and for 300 years after. It does not specify which akaviri races live there, but it could include all of them (Kamal, Tsaesci, Tang Mo and Ka Po'Tun)

Heck, they could even have the Imga become a significant race with the return of Falinesti, which happens in the second era.

There are many options available that don't conflict with known history that would be much more exciting than the sudden re-appearance of living Dwemer.

Rosveen

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

DrkHunter86 wrote: »

Slylok wrote: »

FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.

Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.

I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.

Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.

Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.

I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.

*insert NERRD GIF*

The Second Era ended when Versidue-Shaie overthrew the Reman dynasty and began the time of the Akaviri Potentates. The Dwemer were long gone by then.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Or to put it another way, if the setting means so little to people in the first place then why ask for Dwemer at all? They are, after all, a setting-specific construct.

There's a very simple reason for that: 95% of players don't ask for Dwemer, they ask for dwarves. Think about it.

Darkstorne

Iluvrien wrote: »

Narrative continuity isn't an excuse. It is part of what makes the TES series one of the better series' out there. There aren't massive rewrites or retcons on the basis of what "might be cool"

Clearly, you didn't play Oblivion

Lore on Cyrodiil, pre-TES4: "It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. Its center, the grassland of the Nibenay Valley, is enclosed by an equatorial rain forest and broken up by rivers."

It was supposed to be a much more humid environment, which is understandable given how the Imperials were always modelled after the Romans. Then the Lord of the Rings film trilogy happened and Bethesda decided to turn tropical Cyrodiil into the gently rolling hills and oak forests of medieval Britain, and even threw out all the Roman-esque Imperial army outfits and replaced them with medieval inspired rusty plate. Luckily they backtracked on a lot of those armour changes with Skyrim, but the environment of Cyrodiil is now set in stone.

I know some people like to use the unofficial Thu'um lore fix here, saying Tiber Septim used the power of the voice to shout away the jungles of Cyrodiil and replace them with fertile grasslands and deciduous forests and woodland, but keep in mind that takes place long after ESO, and in ESO we still have a non-jungle, British countryside Cyrodiil.

I'm still very much in favour of sticking to lore and keeping the Chimer out of ESO. But let's not pretend Bethesda aren't fond of ignoring their own lore in favour of mimicking popular culture. Heck, even Whiterun in Skyrim ignores environmental lore since despite claiming to be tundra is clearly modelled after the plains of Rohan - a completely different biome. Tundra in autumn is not brown grasses, but Bethesda will always Bethesda. This is tundra in autumn, and what a lore friendly Skyrim should look like:

Abeille

@Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

Flameheart

Hammer of Lore swings down and critically hits TO.

Darkstorne

Abeille wrote: »

@Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

Abeille

Darkstorne wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

@Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.

Cazzy

This always happens, hahaha

Carraig

Abeille wrote: »

Carraig wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Carraig wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

In the (legendary) game Morrowind there were enemy dwemer ghosts in delves. Also the last known living dwemer was a big part of the storyline. Come to think of it, unless I'm mistaken, if he was around during the events of Morrowind that would mean he is technically around during ESO.

That is a distinct possibility. That could mean that we can encounter him when Vvardenfell becomes part of the game.

And he would be healthy, because corprus isn't a thing yet!
[muffled fangirling noises]

unless he is patient Zero, found by the same Telvani wizard who kept him in Morrowind. That wizard was quite old as well, if I remember correctly.

Dagoth Ur is still snoring, he couldn't have created corprus yet.

Good point.

Cloudless

Numidium OP plz ZOS nerf.

Enodoc

Rosveen wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

DrkHunter86 wrote: »

Slylok wrote: »

FYI Dwarf in TES = Another Elf race and not what people traditionally think when they picture a Dwarf.

Dwarves in tes are yes an even like race but also vanished from nirn way before eso's time frame. I wanna say it was either before or very early in the 1 era but my lore is pretty rusty. Point is they where meant too be an almost mythical like race and intended too be extra lore in the series.

I believe it was the disappearance of the Dwemer that ushered in the second age.
Tiber Septim conquering Tamriel ushered in the third age.
Oblivion Gate Crisis ushered in the fourth age.
I am to assume that the defeat of Alduin will create the fifth age; with dragons back since probably the mythical era.
*insert NERRD GIF*

The Second Era ended when Versidue-Shaie overthrew the Reman dynasty and began the time of the Akaviri Potentates. The Dwemer were long gone by then.

The change in the Eras is all about the political structure of Tamriel.

• The Merethic Era ended when the Camoran Dynasty was founded.
• The First Era ended when the Reman Dynasty ended.
• The Second Era ended when the Third Empire of Tamriel was founded.
• The Third Era ended when the Septim Dynasty ended.

Incidentally, I'm hoping that the Fifth Era is still a way off. 201 years isn't long enough for an Era.


If you take the metaphysical angle, and don't mind a bit of historical fiction, here's the start of the Second Era, from (my favourite book) 2920 TLYotFE:
31 Evening Star, 2920
Ebonheart, Morrowind
In the smoky catacombs beneath the city where Sotha Sil forged the future with his arcane clockwork apparatus, something unforeseen happened. An oily bubble seeped from a long trusted gear and popped. Immediately, the wizard's attention was drawn to it and to the chain that tiny action triggered. A pipe shifted half an inch to the left. A tread skipped. A coil rewound itself and began spinning in a counter direction. A piston that had been thrusting left-right, left-right, for millennia suddenly began shifting right-left. Nothing broke, but everything changed.
“It cannot be fixed now,” said the sorcerer quietly.
He looked up through a crick in the ceiling into the night sky. It was midnight. The second era, the age of chaos, had begun.

Mic1007

If they haven't returned by Skyrim time, ESO will not have them.

Darkstorne

Abeille wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

@Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.

I agree that the Dwemer should remain out of ESO. I don't agree that the changes to environment are even remotely lore-friendly or believable. Maybe if you don't mind environmental accuracy it's fine, but if you do then it's a change that makes no sense given all lore prior to Oblivion references Cyrodiil as jungle. For players post-Oblivion, that's fine to add new "lore books" where authors essentially say "What were all the other authors thinking, saying Cyrodiil is jungle? I have a theory involving MAGIC to explain it all away."

I don't think Dwemer belong in ESO. I also don't think there's anything wrong with calling a spade and spade and admitting Bethesda regularly retcon their games with no lore-friendly explanation. Even the book you linked is from ZOS, not Bethesda, and the Thu'um theory is essentially fan lore. Bethesda themselves just retcon without making any attempt to disguise it or address the inconsistencies.

Rosveen

How is the thu'um theory fan lore when it comes out of the mouth of an NPC in an official Bethesda game?

SantieClaws

Khajiit would far rather race horses or camels than sit on the back of a dwemer.

This one she does not think such a thing would ever catch on! Where would we put the saddle yes?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Darkstorne wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

@Darkstorne there is an in game book on The jungles of Cyrodiil.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation

I find it a much more interesting explanation than "Talos did it retroactively", even if it is just speculation done by some NPC.

Sure, but what that book REALLY reads as is: "Bethesda ignored their own lore, now we have to fumble around with excuses for why that lore is no longer accurate in-game." There is no lore-accurate reason for why Cyrodiil isn't jungle, or Whiterun isn't tundra. It's simply Bethesda making a habit of retcons to visually cater to popular culture trends of the time.

There is, now (for Cyrodiilic jungles, at least). They made a change to make the game more appealing and then explained the changes in a believable manner. That is perfectly fine for them to do, and that works. It only works, however, because these are not big plot points, unlike the disappearence of the Dwemer.

I agree that the Dwemer should remain out of ESO. I don't agree that the changes to environment are even remotely lore-friendly or believable. Maybe if you don't mind environmental accuracy it's fine, but if you do then it's a change that makes no sense given all lore prior to Oblivion references Cyrodiil as jungle. For players post-Oblivion, that's fine to add new "lore books" where authors essentially say "What were all the other authors thinking, saying Cyrodiil is jungle? I have a theory involving MAGIC to explain it all away."

I don't think Dwemer belong in ESO. I also don't think there's anything wrong with calling a spade and spade and admitting Bethesda regularly retcon their games with no lore-friendly explanation. Even the book you linked is from ZOS, not Bethesda, and the Thu'um theory is essentially fan lore. Bethesda themselves just retcon without making any attempt to disguise it or address the inconsistencies.

Well, actually it has been stated by the writers and Lore master of ESO that they bounce new ideas/ new materiel off the Bethesda team. Also, both ZOS and Bethesda are owned by Zenimax Media which Bethesda created in 1999, so they really are the same company, just different divisions.

Lord_Eomer

Nerf Dwarf @ forum! Too much hype