LeifErickson wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »How many classes have access to BoL vs how many classes have acces to Vigor?LeifErickson wrote: »KisoValley wrote: »The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:
"Adapt, or die."
I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)
Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)
I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.
? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol
BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.
What do builds using Vigor also have access to that BoL Templar houses do not come equipped with? (Psst, Rally, Shuffle, dodge roll, CC break)
The fact is honor is better than vigor. All those other contributing factors that you listed make vigor really strong but honor is better with no contributing factors.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
KisoValley wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »How many classes have access to BoL vs how many classes have acces to Vigor?LeifErickson wrote: »KisoValley wrote: »The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:
"Adapt, or die."
I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)
Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)
I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.
? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol
BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.
What do builds using Vigor also have access to that BoL Templar houses do not come equipped with? (Psst, Rally, Shuffle, dodge roll, CC break)
The fact is honor is better than vigor. All those other contributing factors that you listed make vigor really strong but honor is better with no contributing factors.
I guess we should make a rule in PVP: Not allowed to use others abilities with vigour.
Smh
Lava_Croft wrote: »
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Only scrubs die to just Tremorscale. It's the combination with all the other silly gear that makes it stupid OP.Lava_Croft wrote: »
I've been pretty open minded to many things in this game. But a proc set that does that much damage, basically procs when you want it to, and delivers a stackable 70% snare is totally broken. It's basically Malubeth for stam--it's a crutch, requires zero skill to become suddenly quite effective. It's a scrub set.
If you use Tremorscale, you're a scrub. End of discussion.
Joy_Division wrote: »First bolded statement is highly dubious.
Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!
Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.
Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.
A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.
Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.
Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).
Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.
Joy_Division wrote: »First bolded statement is highly dubious.
Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!
Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.
Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.
A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.
Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.
Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).
Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.
I think it's fairly clear you haven't been playing this game for very long.
As far as metrics and data goes, we all saw how according to ZOS's "metrics and data" the average PvPer makes only 10k AP a day which is a complete farce. I don't remember when, but they had a statistic showing the average CP per player was around 90-100. This was a while back, but even then most players that were playing the game when CP came out hit 90-100 in the first week or two. Metrics and data literally mean nothing to this company as they will simply skew them to fit whatever agenda they would like to push.
Next we have QA. If you think ZOS has a legitimate QA team/process I don't even know what to tell you. Numerous bugs reported at the beginnings of PTS cycles have made it through into the launch of those patches. Too many to name/count. Simple bugs that players on the PTS run into in their first PvP encounter on the first day of PTS. That's the same QA team that will be asked to look into a known hacker (before CE use became widely known) and come back to tell the community that he's just a good player who's found a way to mitigate 99% of all incoming damage without blocking through the use of sheer skill and power of the mind rather than a hack/exploitation of bugs. Your own personal experience with QA really just means nothing here.
Oh yeah, lets throw in all of the times patch notes have listed bugs as "fixed", and players recreate the same exact bug in the same exact way immediately after servers go live with the "fix".
Honestly I think your response shows a total lack of insight into how the ZOS development cycle works. Regardless of whether wrobel knows or not most players probably don't expect any changes because it's actually just RNG whether they change things the community as a whole asks to be changed.
Remember how ZOS wanted a video to explain the broken mount speed changes on slopes even though all you had to do was ride a mount for 5 seconds.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »First bolded statement is highly dubious.
Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!
Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.
Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.
A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.
Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.
Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).
Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.
You are joking right?
After the TG patch, we told Zos that character speed was slowed down. They wen;t on ESO Live and denied it. Then a poster put up a video that proved to even the most obstinate ZoS emplayee that player speed was in fact slower. But keep telling me about that awesome ZoS Quality control. This is the same company who believed that Cyrodiil's lag in 2014 was due to its customers not resetting their router!
That you even mention healing springs allowing players to keep themselves alive is laughable. We are all early waiting Sypher's new 1vX build where he sustains himself spamming Springs. And, yes, vigor is an effective stamina heal - try finishing vMA on a stam toon without it.
I have a total lack of insight? LOL.
Remember when ZOS messed up health scaling applying to battle spirit when any QA who did so much as log in the game would log the difference?Lava_Croft wrote: »Remember how ZOS wanted a video to explain the broken mount speed changes on slopes even though all you had to do was ride a mount for 5 seconds.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »First bolded statement is highly dubious.
Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!
Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.
Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.
A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.
Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.
Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).
Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.
You are joking right?
After the TG patch, we told Zos that character speed was slowed down. They wen;t on ESO Live and denied it. Then a poster put up a video that proved to even the most obstinate ZoS emplayee that player speed was in fact slower. But keep telling me about that awesome ZoS Quality control. This is the same company who believed that Cyrodiil's lag in 2014 was due to its customers not resetting their router!
That you even mention healing springs allowing players to keep themselves alive is laughable. We are all early waiting Sypher's new 1vX build where he sustains himself spamming Springs. And, yes, vigor is an effective stamina heal - try finishing vMA on a stam toon without it.
I have a total lack of insight? LOL.
Remember how ZOS wanted a video to explain broken Clouding Swarm even though all you had to do was use it once and you would instantly notice it.
The list of things like this is long and a testament to both the developers and their QA team.
HoloYoitsu wrote: »Remember when ZOS messed up health scaling applying to battle spirit when any QA who did so much as log in the game would log the difference?Lava_Croft wrote: »Remember how ZOS wanted a video to explain the broken mount speed changes on slopes even though all you had to do was ride a mount for 5 seconds.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »First bolded statement is highly dubious.
Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!
Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.
Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.
A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.
Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.
Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).
Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.
You are joking right?
After the TG patch, we told Zos that character speed was slowed down. They wen;t on ESO Live and denied it. Then a poster put up a video that proved to even the most obstinate ZoS emplayee that player speed was in fact slower. But keep telling me about that awesome ZoS Quality control. This is the same company who believed that Cyrodiil's lag in 2014 was due to its customers not resetting their router!
That you even mention healing springs allowing players to keep themselves alive is laughable. We are all early waiting Sypher's new 1vX build where he sustains himself spamming Springs. And, yes, vigor is an effective stamina heal - try finishing vMA on a stam toon without it.
I have a total lack of insight? LOL.
Remember how ZOS wanted a video to explain broken Clouding Swarm even though all you had to do was use it once and you would instantly notice it.
The list of things like this is long and a testament to both the developers and their QA team.
If you use Tremorscale, you're a scrub. End of discussion.