*Really, proc sets?*

Crown

What was the old title?

My response to PTSD things is in a new thread so as not to further derail.

Jamini

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

Manoekin

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

Just because people complain doesn't mean they aren't adapting. You can hate the meta you play.

HoloYoitsu

Manoekin wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

Just because people complain doesn't mean they aren't adapting. You can hate the meta you play.

These days, I just assume that anyone who comes in these threads with the "git gud adapt" or "L2P" argument is simply a proctato in disguise.

Jamini wrote: »

Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing.

Also, *looks at rally/vigor*

Where is my LOL button??

Ahzek

Alcast wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Apparently Viper and Tremorscale is the meta for stam sorcs atm. Just gonna say, fellow sorcs: get creative and use your own bloody builds.

So who owns this build then? I ask this because it's such an obvious combination of gear that it's almost impossible to not have 25 people seperately coming up with it at the same time.

Yes this is one pretty hilarious ESO thing. Every patch people desperately put videos up as fast as possible to claim some obvious build.

correct.

People that "claim" builds are childish. Everyone does their own content and comes up with stuff, it is really OBVIOUS most of the times what is gonna be OP.
However, at least if you copy paste something from somewhere have the dignity to say where you got it from.

Liar, my stam builds are always original and unique.


(sort of a joke ,but actually true 99% of the time)

Izaki

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I blame @FENGRUSH for making that build video with black rose, viper, tremorscale . Currently the number of people that run up to me and spam ransack is sort of hilariously high, probably just as common as viper+velidreth if not more common. Luckily that fugly viper s&b is very distinct, so I can see the tremtard copy cats from a surprisingly good distance and take appropriate actions. Turns out blocking is effective. Who knew?

Then when you block their attack, the best part is when they stand there thinking;

'Oh noes, now all my procs and DPS got blocked! sadfacesadface '

Then they die. Just seeing the look on their toons face is soo succulent and sweet right before they fall over.

Shield stack through their stupid combo while popping a quick Curse (that goes completely unnoticed) a little Endless Fury and Entropy into that sweet16k Frags baby.

God_flakes

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Proc sets that CC seem a bit much, tbh.





At least stam sorcs can't run Hurricane with Grothdarr's and Destro Ult, right?

[minor edit for title]

Who needs skills, maneuvers, resource management, CP or even one brain cell when proc sets play the game for you? Pvp is such a mess because of these sets. Wrobel needs to be fired.

HoloYoitsu

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

olsborg

PvP is in ruins atm imo. Ppl dont slot skills, they slot proccsets and think they are good when their armor gets the kill. OOooyeaaaah.

Magus

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Apparently Viper and Tremorscale is the meta for stam sorcs atm. Just gonna say, fellow sorcs: get creative and use your own bloody builds.

So who owns this build then? I ask this because it's such an obvious combination of gear that it's almost impossible to not have 25 people seperately coming up with it at the same time.

Obvious combination you say? That just means there aren't enough attractive proc set alternatives, I'll tell Wrobel and have him get on making more comparable proc sets for the next update!

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

Actually there are a ton of sets that have a healing component to them (malubeth, 2 new ones, engine guardian 1/3 of the time), and there's that weird ice heart set with a shield. That could be buffed to be a worthwhile shield. The CC immunity one though, that'd be neat but immovable pots do the same thing - also none of that helps you kill. Remember how like 2 months ago, it was elder tanks online and forums were so whiny about reactive and malubeth? Bet everyone misses those days now lol. So, blackrose/proc set tanks hit hard but easily mitigated by block/damage shield/heals and are single target. The true tactical nuke that has made every former tank cry is the destro ultimate. Damage is off the charts but hey, people are less tanky now in comparison - so forum warriors win again?

KisoValley

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol

LeifErickson

KisoValley wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol

BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.

Magus

Actually wouldn't mind a new monster set called I'm the Juggernaut that gives you all cc immunity and snare immunity for 5 secs every 10 secs when damaged. Let hilarity ensue.

PenguinInACan

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

Hist Sap gives a little of that. Specifically on cc/disable. Been testing a build with it for a bit. Free 2-3k heals when cc'd is pretty nice.

Joy_Division

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you[/b]. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

First bolded statement is highly dubious.

Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.

You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).

Publius_Scipio

Many ESO players have become proctologists. Get it? Hahahha Scipio hahhahaha.

HoloYoitsu

LeifErickson wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol

BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.

How many classes have access to BoL vs how many classes have acces to Vigor?

What do builds using Vigor also have access to that BoL Templar houses do not come equipped with? (Psst, Rally, Shuffle, dodge roll, CC break)

LeifErickson

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol

BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.

How many classes have access to BoL vs how many classes have acces to Vigor?

What do builds using Vigor also have access to that BoL Templar houses do not come equipped with? (Psst, Rally, Shuffle, dodge roll, CC break)

The fact is honor is better than vigor. All those other contributing factors that you listed make vigor really strong but honor is better with no contributing factors.

HoloYoitsu

LeifErickson wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol

BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.

How many classes have access to BoL vs how many classes have acces to Vigor?

What do builds using Vigor also have access to that BoL Templar houses do not come equipped with? (Psst, Rally, Shuffle, dodge roll, CC break)

The fact is honor is better than vigor. All those other contributing factors that you listed make vigor really strong but honor is better with no contributing factors.

I mean that's the point, things have to be examined wholisticly, not just in a vacuum.

Xvorg

LeifErickson wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

The hate for proc builds is kind of silly. There is an old adage:

"Adapt, or die."

I'm not saying Proc builds are balanced. They are not. Not one bit. That said, complaining loudly won't cause the developers to change things any faster. The developers should be fully aware of the balance issues, and are almost certainly looking for solutions that (hopefully) won't dramatically harm other aspects of the game (PvE and heavy armor viability come to mind.)

Either adapt to match the META, or find a play-style that trumps it. (The new destruction ult is amazing and clears zergs like nothing. Magika still has fantastic overall utility, and a virtual monopoly on healing. Supertanks still exist and can survive multiple proc-builds on them, and proc builds do not win against good duelists (especially skilled magDKs)). If you can't do that, then your losses and deaths are on you. If you can't accept losing and dying the issue isn't with the proc build, it's with you. (So go play a few days of Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls and learn how to lose gracefully. You'll be better for it.)

I look forward to meeting all of you on the field, and look forward to adapting when then next major PvP balance patch comes out.

? Vigour is the best heal in the game lol

BoL/HtD is the best heal by far.

How many classes have access to BoL vs how many classes have acces to Vigor?

What do builds using Vigor also have access to that BoL Templar houses do not come equipped with? (Psst, Rally, Shuffle, dodge roll, CC break)

The fact is honor is better than vigor. All those other contributing factors that you listed make vigor really strong but honor is better with no contributing factors.

well, the best self heal in game should be dragon blood. Refreshing path should also give a nice hot... and both are way behind vigor.

And vigor is quite cheaper compared to them. What do you have to do then? Yup, put a healing staff on your hands to use mutagen or rapid regen... the most unreliable heal in the game.

smashcats

Its funny seeing all those small numbers between 2-4k and having people complain about that? honestly I wish the damage in pvp was more those numbers are pathetic

I pull about the same amount of damage on people and it barely gets their hp down 1/3 of the way so...are you light armor and not blocking/shielding? not using vigor as much as possible even before you take damage so that you can restore ur hp as quick as possible?

HoloYoitsu

smashcats wrote: »

Its funny seeing all those small numbers between 2-4k and having people complain about that? honestly I wish the damage in pvp was more those numbers are pathetic

I pull about the same amount of damage on people and it barely gets their hp down 1/3 of the way so...are you light armor and not blocking/shielding? not using vigor as much as possible even before you take damage so that you can restore ur hp as quick as possible?

Cuz 10-15k proc burst every 4 sec is totally "small numbers between 2-4K".

Jamini

Joy_Division wrote: »

First bolded statement is highly dubious.

Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!

Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.

Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.

A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.

Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.

Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.

Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)

You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).

Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.

Manoekin

Jamini wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

First bolded statement is highly dubious.

Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!

Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.

Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.

A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.

Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.

Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.

Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)

You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).

Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.

I think it's fairly clear you haven't been playing this game for very long.

As far as metrics and data goes, we all saw how according to ZOS's "metrics and data" the average PvPer makes only 10k AP a day which is a complete farce. I don't remember when, but they had a statistic showing the average CP per player was around 90-100. This was a while back, but even then most players that were playing the game when CP came out hit 90-100 in the first week or two. Metrics and data literally mean nothing to this company as they will simply skew them to fit whatever agenda they would like to push.

Next we have QA. If you think ZOS has a legitimate QA team/process I don't even know what to tell you. Numerous bugs reported at the beginnings of PTS cycles have made it through into the launch of those patches. Too many to name/count. Simple bugs that players on the PTS run into in their first PvP encounter on the first day of PTS. That's the same QA team that will be asked to look into a known hacker (before CE use became widely known) and come back to tell the community that he's just a good player who's found a way to mitigate 99% of all incoming damage without blocking through the use of sheer skill and power of the mind rather than a hack/exploitation of bugs. Your own personal experience with QA really just means nothing here.

Oh yeah, lets throw in all of the times patch notes have listed bugs as "fixed", and players recreate the same exact bug in the same exact way immediately after servers go live with the "fix".

Honestly I think your response shows a total lack of insight into how the ZOS development cycle works. Regardless of whether wrobel knows or not most players probably don't expect any changes because it's actually just RNG whether they change things the community as a whole asks to be changed.

Seido_Tensei_

Jamini wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

First bolded statement is highly dubious.

Developers, unlike vocal players, act on actual gathered metrics and data. They normally have a long cycle of identifying problems, testing everything they can think of relating to the problems, developing hypothetical fixes, then testing them. That takes time. Especially if the issue slipped through the first round of testing!

Why do I know? I've made mods and games before. It's a long-standing hobby of mine.

Have you ever done QA testing before? I have. It's hours and hours of testing the same fix/bug over and over again, to make sure little details don't crop up, and reporting other problems when you find them.

A few days of citing potential bugs and issues is normally more than enough to get a developer's attention. Continued complaints and issues get looked at, and often get metrics gathered regarding them before any action is taken. A kneejerk reaction is not only bad for your product name, it shakes customer/user confidence and bleeds support.

Second bolded statement is palpably wrong.

Oh dear, Vigor and Rally. I'm certain that burning off your stamina to spam an average HoT or giving yourself a long buff with a small regen component is making you completely immortal. Except it's not. Most supertank builds (which abslutely must include healing) are Mag based. Shields are, predominantly, mag based. Purify and shard and other support abilities are Mag based.

Vigor allows stamina players to heal a little. Breath of life/Healing Springs/Mutagen/Funnel Health/ETC allow a player to heal a LOT. There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor! (Though StamTANKS often do run vigor, and DPS sometimes run it to help with group sustain)

You have an admirable and idealistic attitude, but it is necessary to raise attention to stuff the developers obviously aren't aware of (otherwise busted stuff wouldn't be in the game).

Your response shows a total lack of insight on how development cycles works. Trust me, at this point Wrobel KNOWS that most players hate proc sets.

@Jamini Your response shows a total lack of insight on how Wrobel operates and how pvp balance is done in this game.

The fact that Wrobel "KNOWS" most players hate proc sets is irrelevant, as this sentiment existed before 1 Tamriel and all we got was a double down on proc sets. We have also seen countless examples in the past of changes being made even though there was clear and direct opposition from 80% of the current player base (see AOE caps discussion, not a fan a Fengrush but he did what he could).

Additionally, what if the data points to the majority of players using proc sets? That data point could lead one to believe that they are a desired game mechanic, when in fact most people use proc sets because they are the easiest / most efficient means to do damage. So currently if you are not using proc sets, you are gimping your potential burst damage (which I think is the nature of the issue, these sets should not be the standard for burst DPS).

Data can only go so far when determining game balance.

Your healing comment is laughable. As a Stamplar main, no one heals better than me via rally / vigor. Now my damage kit is clunky as hell compared to a Stamblade, but damn it I can heal. Especially if you put a stam character in heavy armor! Rally is on par with rapid regen, but BoL/OtD/Healing springs require a GCD cycle where you cannot do DPS. Vigor / Rally combinations allow for burst healing with minimal GCD, making them some of the most effective heals in the game.

@Jamini You are absolutely wrong with the statement "There is a reason PvE don't generally use stamina-based healers abusing vigor!" because in fact that is the ideal way to complete 4 man content. Very few dungeons require a dedicated healer, most experienced groups would prefer 3 DPS and a Tank / Healer or 4 DPS with sufficient survivability using vigor spam. Even on my Magicka Templar I would not use BoL to heal a dungeon as there are many better options available. Not sure what you are trying to say here.

@Jamini You are dismissing legitimate concerns by iterating that "knee jerk" reactions are bad for the game, and what people are tying to explain to you is that the community needs to shout really really loud to even get 1/100th of their feedback implemented. Vocal players can be supported by data (e.g. AOE caps) and still have their feedback brushed aside.

I think you need to step off your high horse and recognize there are better players that also have more experience dealing with ZoS development tendencies than you do.

The sense of urgency is high because payers can only get marginalized to a point and then they just move onto other games and people want this one to last. That's why to me at least it feels like the feed back gets more intense every update, the only way to be recognized is to yell the loudest. Data be damned.

Ghost-Shot

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

I would like to direct you to the Imperium and Ice Heart sets...oh and that give every stam build battle roar set.

HoloYoitsu

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

I would like to direct you to the Imperium and Ice Heart sets...oh and that give every stam build battle roar set.

What are you doing in alliance war forum? Every time I look at you you're in Hel Ra.

Ghost-Shot

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

I would like to direct you to the Imperium and Ice Heart sets...oh and that give every stam build battle roar set.

What are you doing in alliance war forum? Every time I look at you you're in Hel Ra.

I have become a real PvE hero!

leepalmer95

I love the way people complained about snares and proc sets and zos decide to roll a monster set with both in one.

The snare is just stupid, you get hit by tremor and lose all mobility.

HoloYoitsu

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I love the way people complained about snares and proc sets and zos decide to roll a monster set with both in one.

The snare is just stupid, you get hit by tremor and lose all mobility.

Must be one of those Learn2Stambuild problems. Clearly we should all just be spamming shuffle.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Since we have sets that proc free dmg and cc for you now, can we get sets that proc free shields, heals, and CC immunity for us?

I would like to direct you to the Imperium and Ice Heart sets...oh and that give every stam build battle roar set.

What are you doing in alliance war forum? Every time I look at you you're in Hel Ra.

I have become a real PvE hero!

Are you one of those Care Bears I've been hearing about?