Playstation: NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must Be The Place...

PhxOldGamer68

I think DC players went to Haderus to push back EP, who has held the map majority of the time the past several months. AD used to control this map months ago.

DC used to control Skull, but AD seems to have a strong presence there now.

I have toons in every alliance, but many times it's frustrating trying to help the losing team. What I don't get is having the larger population and losing the map. I can only assume the players are in the sewers.

I still dream of the day IC is accessible outside of Cyrodiil.

geonsocal

howdy @PhxOldGamer68 ...yeah, sure looks like DC is "somewhere" else...sill about 6 days left - but, it may be safe to call this campaign for AD...wow, who'd have thunk it...

I normally enjoy playing for the losing side...usually you don't need to worry about "finding" a good fight...

enjoyed some of the best pvp action i've seen in quite a while...playing EP with a buddy and we stayed holed up in aleswell while both DC and AD were attacking us...

nothing like sitting up on top of the inner wall shooting your cold fire into a group of the two opposing alliances - fighting each other...it just looks really cool

it was great stuff - died a whole bunch (fun to play with friends - but, seriously distracting, much easier to stay alive while not trying to stay engaged in a converstaion)...

personally, defending keeps is my favorite type of pvp...no mount riding...being able to mix up seige, ranged and melee combat...

man, is it me or does it seem like either the eye of storm or eye of flame is firing off somewhere close by every other minute...the destro ult has had a really big impact on gamplay...gotta keep your head on a swivel at all times in larger scale battles...

PhxOldGamer68

Hey @geonsocal it's be awhile since I've been on the forum.

It's good to see AD on top recently. AD was the example of 3 bars, yet we got backed up to our gates. DC on one side and EP on the other. I was surprised when I actually had wait to get into Scourge as AD...so I had to enter as EP and defend Arrius from AD and DC for a long time, which was fun.

I use the Destro Ult on my Scorcs a lot, too, I have to admit.

geonsocal

seriously though - why wouldn't someone use that destro ult...it's a beast!

I have one non vet character whom uses an inferno staff (mag dk)...I just slotted forced impulse (I stopped using any destro abilities on any of the 4 characters whom wield a staff for a while now...I just use the destro ult)...

I want to raise his destruction staff level up to level 50...with all his flame bonuses he has - I can't wait to start whipping out the eye of flame while activating baleful mist

I know it's a week away before the new campaign begins - but, I'm already super interested to see what happens next...

EP won a campaign a couple of months ago and DC went right back to work the following campaign...

we'll have to wait and see if AD will be able to continue their current strength...

I kinda wonder how much of it becomes psychological after a while and some players go to other maps to be part of the "winning" side...

Curragraigue

geonsocal wrote: »

seriously though - why wouldn't someone use that destro ult...it's a beast!

I have one non vet character whom uses an inferno staff (mag dk)...I just slotted forced impulse (I stopped using any destro abilities on any of the 4 characters whom wield a staff for a while now...I just use the destro ult)...

I want to raise his destruction staff level up to level 50...with all his flame bonuses he has - I can't wait to start whipping out the eye of flame while activating baleful mist

I know it's a week away before the new campaign begins - but, I'm already super interested to see what happens next...

EP won a campaign a couple of months ago and DC went right back to work the following campaign...

we'll have to wait and see if AD will be able to continue their current strength...

I kinda wonder how much of it becomes psychological after a while and some players go to other maps to be part of the "winning" side...

Check out crushing shock for a ranged interrupt with the destro staff

geonsocal

Curragraigue wrote: »

Check out crushing shock for a ranged interrupt with the destro staff

I'm not sophisticated enough to think about interrupting some spell caster not in my immediate space

for me it's: shield, fire, run, fire, dodge roll, fire, heal, shield, root, fire, run around some more...oh yeah, every once in a great while I'll remember we're allowed to actually use block...

geonsocal

finally finished up on getting all 8 characters to tier 3 (100k AP)...it used to be important to me cuz I needed the coin (i make around 100k each campaign), but, I'm finally reaching the point where money isn't that big an issue...

i did need to spend 45k on 45 grain solvents last night...wondering if it might have just been better to buy a bunch of cheap purple gear and decon it all...

it's kinda cool that over the last couple of months I've been able to double my average AP per hour from around 10k to 20k...most of that has been due to having a better understanding of defensive ticks...

now that my concern or AP is done for the moment - i plan on spending more time in IC...

I normally don't make much AP while in IC...usually I spend a bunch of time waiting around at flags for enemies to show up, or, run around the different districts looking for allies...I'm in there pretty late west coast time - so, there's not always a lot of players there...

no question though the most intense combat I come across is in IC...spent some time in there last night and had a blast...i kinda like that it can get a little personal at times...

one thing i've learned though - if i run across someone whom puts away their weapon and just blocks or shields - no way am i attacking them...i know it can come back to bite you sometimes when their buddies show up...but, i try hard not to be a 'shoot' first, ask questions later type player...

a lot of times - the same people i'm fighting against one day, i may be playing with the next...no need for me to burn bridges with folks...

I need to build up a nice stash of tel var stones because at some point I'd like to buy some of the Phoenix set jewelry...

looking at the pts notes though - i'm a little worried how many stones it'll cost for the jewelry...they come in gold...

geonsocal

here's a few interesting pts notes directed towards pvp:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Alliance War
General

• Increased the AP rewards for quests that direct you to capture resources and keeps. 
  • Completing a quest to capture a resource will now grant 1000 AP. 
  • Completing a quest to capture a keep will now grant 1500 AP.
• Completing quests from towns will now grant 250 AP per completed quest, and will also now grant a green-level set item.
• Capturable towns in Cyrodiil now display the status of individual flags on the compass while in the areas of those towns. 

[*]Pyn Virien, found in the town of Chorrol, is now a Weaponsmith and offers the standard selection of goods shared by similar merchants throughout Tamriel. In fairness to her, her cart is still broken, so the news of One Tamriel took a very long time to reach her ears.
[*]The Faceless Staff, dropped by The Faceless in Cyrodiil, now has a proper gold value.

i found the comment baout Pyn Virien pretty funny ...anyone ever see this "faceless" staff thing?

also this is the big news for us:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Item Set procs which deal damage or healing can no longer Critically Strike.

Yung_deezy818

geonsocal wrote: »

here's a few interesting pts notes directed towards pvp:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Alliance War
General

• Increased the AP rewards for quests that direct you to capture resources and keeps. 
  • Completing a quest to capture a resource will now grant 1000 AP. 
  • Completing a quest to capture a keep will now grant 1500 AP.
• Completing quests from towns will now grant 250 AP per completed quest, and will also now grant a green-level set item.
• Capturable towns in Cyrodiil now display the status of individual flags on the compass while in the areas of those towns. 

[*]Pyn Virien, found in the town of Chorrol, is now a Weaponsmith and offers the standard selection of goods shared by similar merchants throughout Tamriel. In fairness to her, her cart is still broken, so the news of One Tamriel took a very long time to reach her ears.
[*]The Faceless Staff, dropped by The Faceless in Cyrodiil, now has a proper gold value.
[/list]

i found the comment baout Pyn Virien pretty funny

also this is the big news for us:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Item Set procs which deal damage or healing can no longer Critically Strike.

The proc nerf is all hype. Everyone and their moms have enough impen so really the not criting isn't that big a deal. And any sorcs sheilds already can't be crit. So this does nothing for sorcs who been complaining. The complaint isn't the damage nesscariliy. Many good players know how to survive. It's solely when multiple sets all activate at once I.E. Selenes, viper combo on an incap ect. But really I personally don't care as I haven't found proc builds a big issue yet. And they still can't harm my magplar tank haha.

On brighter side the sets to grind in pve zones will be for sale for AP in Cyri so pvp players aren't forced to pve grind as much

geonsocal

couple of other notes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Black Rose: This item set’s 4-piece bonus now grants Maximum Magicka instead of Maximum Stamina.
• Viper’s Sting: Fixed an issue where this item set’s proc could be triggered by Poison and Disease Damage Weapon Enchantments instead of just melee damage.
• Reduced the amount of time required to exit combat with another player character to 6 seconds without performing any hostile actions from 30 seconds.
• Reduced the maximum amount of Ultimate that can be stored to 500 from 1000.

one other real interesting change regards a potential de-stealthing buff:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Created a new debuff category, Minor Magickasteal. This is a debuff applied to enemies that restores a flat value of Magicka to the attacker every second (400 Magicka every second at CP160).

howdy @Curragraigue ...little to no doubt in my mind that you have a much better handle on what all this different stuff means than myself - if it looks cool, i'm happy ...from reading your different posts though i can see you actually understand game mechanics very well...

any idea if this magickasteal debuff will unstealth folks - and, at what range...

any feelings on how gameplay will be affected by these potential changes ...sure looks like holding a destruction staff is becoming more and more beneficial...

Takes-No-Prisoner

Combat & Gameplay

General

Adjusted the Area of Effect damage thresholds for all abilities. The new thresholds are as follows:

Targets 1 – 6: 100% damage taken with all secondary effects applied.

Targets 7 – 24: 75% damage taken with no secondary effects applied (formerly 50% damage taken).

Targets 25 – 60: 50% damage taken with no secondary effects applied (formerly 25% damage taken).

Reduced the amount of time required to exit combat with another player character to 6 seconds without performing any hostile actions from 30 seconds.

Reduced the maximum amount of Ultimate that can be stored to 500 from 1000.

The elemental status effect Chilled now applies Minor Maim to enemies instead of snaring them.

The elemental status effect Concussed now applies Minor Vulnerability to enemies instead of Minor Maim.

Attempting to Light Attack while you are mounted will now dismount you.

Increased the duration of the crowd control immunity buff granted after a crowd control expires on you to 7 seconds from 5 seconds. This will now match the duration of the crowd-control immunity buff granted by Break Free.

Weapon swapping now automatically unsheathes your weapons before performing the swap.

Fixed an issue where the stun animation would occasionally not display on an enemy when you stunned them with a Sneak attack.

Fixed an issue where the stun from Sneak attacks was not granting the target crowd control immunity after the stun expired.

Fixed numerous ability tooltips for grammar, spelling, and formatting. Any significant tooltip revisions will be called out specifically below.

Fixed numerous issues with abilities displaying incorrect or placeholder icons in your Active Effects window, or with the bufftrackers of various player-made addons.

Fixed an issue where the Heavy Attack animation while using Dual Wield weapons could hitch; it will now appear to be much smoother.

@geonsocal Bolded ones where what I found interesting.

Also Lightning Staff has 8% AoE damage buff, so we'll be seeing Lightning Staff EoTS in PVP after this drops. Also The change to Clouding Swarm ult from Vampire can teleport them around.

geonsocal

totally missed that cc stuff @Takes-No-Prisoner...

thank goodness you guys are so smart...really appreciate you all

seriously, how in the world do some of you keep up with all the buff/debuff stuff going on...man, that stuff is confusing...

Takes-No-Prisoner

Take a look at the Aoe Caps though. If you're in a large scale fight with many enemies, you get no secondary effects applied from your AoE abilities. So things like Deep Breath won't give you a heal and the damage is also reduced. Though, this is how I am interpreting it.

geonsocal

okay - so i've come to the somber realization that i may not be the smartest guy in the room on this thread...i'm starting to worry now if i'm the dumbest

Takes-No-Prisoner

well what are you confused about?

Yung_deezy818

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Take a look at the Aoe Caps though. If you're in a large scale fight with many enemies, you get no secondary effects applied from your AoE abilities. So things like Deep Breath won't give you a heal and the damage is also reduced. Though, this is how I am interpreting it.

See it says secondary damage. So I don't think it'll be the heal of deep breath since it heals. But will effect other DOTs that have secondary damage. How ever to balance with that they did up the damage 25% each time. Where 7-24 ppl no secondary damage and primary at 75% where before it was secondary but 50% damage. You loosing secondary but gaining 25% on main so can be interesting to see new combos. More thought put into larger scale fights I'd think

geonsocal

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

well what are you confused about?

honestly...it's really about taking the time to read through the tool tips and spending the effort to really comprehend what all the abilities and passives do - and, how they interact...basically kind of half-assing works fine for me...

my focus is very superficial at most times - unless i'm really motivated by something...it's funny, i play with a good buddy of mine whom i got into eso about a year ago...painful process initially for the poor guy...

he never really studies any of this stuff - but, sure enough when we're in a keep up on top defending to the end - he's usually one of the last people standing (his builds are a little tanky)...he just has a knack for competing against others...

concussed, burning, chilled, off balance - all mean very little to me...DoTs, AoE...just not that interesting to me...

snare/rooting, cc'ing, executing folks, attack distances - are interesting and i tend to get them a little better...

Takes-No-Prisoner

Yung_deezy818 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Take a look at the Aoe Caps though. If you're in a large scale fight with many enemies, you get no secondary effects applied from your AoE abilities. So things like Deep Breath won't give you a heal and the damage is also reduced. Though, this is how I am interpreting it.

See it says secondary damage. So I don't think it'll be the heal of deep breath since it heals. But will effect other DOTs that have secondary damage. How ever to balance with that they did up the damage 25% each time. Where 7-24 ppl no secondary damage and primary at 75% where before it was secondary but 50% damage. You loosing secondary but gaining 25% on main so can be interesting to see new combos. More thought put into larger scale fights I'd think

I'm still not understanding your point of view even though I re-read your post several times (I've gotten bad sleep past few days so that isn't helping hahaha!)

I have PTS on my Laptop so I can mess around with it over the weekend

geonsocal

howdy @Takes-No-Prisoner ...not sure if you have the Imperial City dlc, but, if you get the chance, could you please check on the price for the new tel var jewelry sets...

seeing how I'm only sitting with around 15k stones in the bank - i'm hoping and praying the price tag will only be 100k or less per piece (it'll still take me forever to get 300k, but 750k for a set just seems cruel)...

Yung_deezy818

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Yung_deezy818 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Take a look at the Aoe Caps though. If you're in a large scale fight with many enemies, you get no secondary effects applied from your AoE abilities. So things like Deep Breath won't give you a heal and the damage is also reduced. Though, this is how I am interpreting it.

See it says secondary damage. So I don't think it'll be the heal of deep breath since it heals. But will effect other DOTs that have secondary damage. How ever to balance with that they did up the damage 25% each time. Where 7-24 ppl no secondary damage and primary at 75% where before it was secondary but 50% damage. You loosing secondary but gaining 25% on main so can be interesting to see new combos. More thought put into larger scale fights I'd think

I'm still not understanding your point of view even though I re-read your post several times (I've gotten bad sleep past few days so that isn't helping hahaha!)

I have PTS on my Laptop so I can mess around with it over the weekend

Main point was where now in groups of enemies 7and bigger how no secondary damage would apply (effects a lot of dot seeing they have secondary damage), though they increased the primary damage 25% per thing. So where before it was ex 7 people you'd do 50% primary damage and secondary damage, now you'd do 75% primary but no secondary. So will be interesting how pure sir builds change up gameplay. See some new bar rotations and builds possibly.

Curragraigue

geonsocal wrote: »

couple of other notes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Black Rose: This item set’s 4-piece bonus now grants Maximum Magicka instead of Maximum Stamina.
• Viper’s Sting: Fixed an issue where this item set’s proc could be triggered by Poison and Disease Damage Weapon Enchantments instead of just melee damage.
• Reduced the amount of time required to exit combat with another player character to 6 seconds without performing any hostile actions from 30 seconds.
• Reduced the maximum amount of Ultimate that can be stored to 500 from 1000.

one other real interesting change regards a potential de-stealthing buff:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Created a new debuff category, Minor Magickasteal. This is a debuff applied to enemies that restores a flat value of Magicka to the attacker every second (400 Magicka every second at CP160).

howdy @Curragraigue ...little to no doubt in my mind that you have a much better handle on what all this different stuff means than myself - if it looks cool, i'm happy ...from reading your different posts though i can see you actually understand game mechanics very well...

any idea if this magickasteal debuff will unstealth folks - and, at what range...

any feelings on how gameplay will be affected by these potential changes ...sure looks like holding a destruction staff is becoming more and more beneficial...

It was certainly one of their more interesting changes of the bunch. On paper it sounded crazy OP. Thankfully we are lucky enough to have PC players as QA testers on the PTS for us. The two guys to watch in the official thread are Danno and Manny. They both have extensive mag Temp PvP experience going back to PC launch so I always pay attention to their comments about the class for PvP.

Danno did some testing and said this about the skill

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3655335/#Comment_3655335

and Manny unsurprisingly was very critical of the blazing spear which is really the biggest kick in the teeth for mag Temps in PvP from these changes

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3656791/#Comment_3656791

So it looks like you get a capped 400 mag per second no matter how many people you debuff with the skill but you have to keep doing damage to them so you need a DoT or direct damage very second on them as well. Interestingly he is saying with the change you are better with the additional damage reduction from restoring focus (which I currently use on my tanks instead) instead of channelled focus (magicka return morph) because you don't need the additional magicka return from channelled any more presumably.

I think because it is a debuff and not a DoT it by itself will not pull people out of cloak. I haven't seen anyone correct the notes so it seems to be max range of 28 m for the magicka steal debuff. I also haven't seen any comment on whether it requires LoS yet.

geonsocal

@Curragraigue ...wow, that was good stuff...it seems like danno and manny seriously know what they're doing...

one of the things I enjoy most about IC in scourge is that you get an opportunity to see some of the best players on our platform in action...it's definitely cool...i don't really watch many pvp vids anymore - it just more fun to get a chance to watch it live (a little less than cool when your on the losing end of a 1vX, and, your part of the X)...

both my mag and stam temps use similar skills: jabs, javelin, blazing shield, radiant oppression, repentance, lingering ritual (that extra health kick after 8 seconds was nice)...they just vary in their gear and how much and when the different abilities are used, they both carry destro staffs too...those things definitely didn't take a nerf

Edit: I'm thinking - if I wanna hang around IC more, I may need to change up some things with my build...burst is really big in there...

geonsocal

played again in IC last night - ran into a huge yellow zerg (played DC last few nights)..seriously - i think they may have had a full 24 player group - yikes, talk about steamrolling...

it wasn't until i had been in there for a couple of hours before more DC players started coming in - had a blast running with a few players playing their non-vet alts...we did surprisingly well against other small groups...the only thing we were seriously missing was that none of us were playing sorcs or DK's so we couldn't root/snare anyone - it's tough to kill folks when they keep being a pain and refusing to stand still so you can hit them

i try not to focus too heavily on my AP per hour or Tel Var stone per hour rate...it seems like that would take some fun out of the game...

having said that - i need to start getting smarter when it comes to competing in IC...

any one out there whom likes to frequent the "jewel" of cyrodiil?

OutLaw_Nynx

What's up with all the normal blues on yellow now?

Like I get it, your alliance is losing but come on, go fight for your alliance..

Yung_deezy818

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

What's up with all the normal blues on yellow now?

Like I get it, your alliance is losing but come on, go fight for your alliance..

They prob got sick of D.C. Steamrolling the map the last two - three months before with the austilian influx of DC players and wanted to try to balance the campaign for survival. Until this campaign AD was normally 1 bar while EP and D.C. Stayed 3.

geonsocal

@Yung_deezy818 ...hadn't thought of it like that- very smart...

initially when I read what @OutLaw_Nynx I was thinking - shoot a lot of players just don't care about alliances - they fight for their selves....kind of like me - mercenary minded

but, that's just the way I think...

truth is - i play by what character I feel like playing, and, i have multiple in each alliance, all in scourge...I guess you could call my participation a wash as far as influencing anything...

I just care about my characters, competing fairly and competing hard...

what you said deezy is a lot deeper - cuz yeah, for the sake of the campaign, things did need to balance out...

dang deezy, what you 20 something going on 90...what up with all this deep insight

Yung_deezy818

geonsocal wrote: »

@Yung_deezy818 ...hadn't thought of it like that- very smart...

initially when I read what @OutLaw_Nynx I was thinking - shoot a lot of players just don't care about alliances - they fight for their selves....kind of like me - mercenary minded

but, that's just the way I think...

truth is - i play by what character I feel like playing, and, i have multiple in each alliance, all in scourge...I guess you could call my participation a wash as far as influencing anything...

I just care about my characters, competing fairly and competing hard...

what you said deezy is a lot deeper - cuz yeah, for the sake of the campaign, things did need to balance out...

dang deezy, what you 20 something going on 90...what up with all this deep insight

Haha nah man that's just what the green does open and expands the mind bro

Twohothardware

Yung_deezy818 wrote: »

They prob got sick of D.C. Steamrolling the map the last two - three months before with the austilian influx of DC players and wanted to try to balance the campaign for survival. Until this campaign AD was normally 1 bar while EP and D.C. Stayed 3.

That was because AD had 3 bars hiding in Haderus then lol. AD's population is considerably larger than the other 2 alliances. Like I hopped on my AD character for a moment earlier and the queue for Scourge was 126. AD plays when they're winning and give up when they're not.

geonsocal

too funny - i'm there with you, 92 queue for AD, 44 for EP, 22 for DC...

I wanna get in, so i'm rocking blue

so, AD won the last campaign...

I had a choice of going east or south at glademist - went to fort ash cuz, AD won the last campaign (silently I imagine I'll be rooting for EP)...

crazy thing is - i'm only in 2 pvp guilds, and, they're both AD...

one group is a really cool collection of fun, smart players - real kicked back vibe when they're playing...

as far as the other group, met two absolutely awesome folks from up north (canada for us here in the states )...

I don't group a lot in cyro - when you play in IC, it's hard not to group, for most of us, it's the smart thing to do...

got invited to a 2 person group in one of the districts...holy crap - they we're absolute beasts...

just my own personal opinion (only slightly biased of course ) - i feel like I'm in possibly the top 20% of pvp players or so...normally I don't die much, a have a fairly good understanding of tactics, and, i usually help kill a bunch of people...

I play all classes, I sorta have them split magicka/stamina based - but, i've made most of them hybridish...

i know i'm making things a lot harder on myself playing that way...oh well - it may be time for character upgrades...

anyways - these two gentlemen are actual competitive pvpers...holy crap - I've now seen up close and personal what the top 5% look like...literally, they're competitive against 3 to 4 other cp cap players...

I gotta be honest, it's super fun to be on the winning side of a fight all the time...normally I'm fairly successful in most fights, but, part of that is i can get way alot of times...

these guys hunt other people, really really well - it was funny to watch...

so, after we had first started playing together, they invited me to a guild...one of them joked the guild had 3 people in it...

I'm in a few large trading guilds, plus a pvp guild: 'good dabs and hash' is plus 200...

I had a pretty good vibe meeting the guys from up north: educated, relaxed and they were cool about winning - a lot...it was just a given - for them

so I dropped a recent guild I had just joined the day before (IC can be full of surprises, even when it's empty sometimes)...joined their guild, and, sure enough- i was member number 3...

hopefully I'll get another chance to run with them again...I seriously learned more in a few hours than I have in the last few months...

have fun out there the next 30 days...if you get the chance - check in, and, let us know what you see (ugh, I think I may try to learn how to do the whole video thing, maybe, we'll see)...

oh yeah - and, now a message from our sponsors...just kidding, a little bit - but, if you need some cheap non vet pvp gear come see Atin in wayrest...

even with 240 bank slots, 8 characters, every few days I have to clear space...wish my new abode came with mannequins and a bottomless container

Yung_deezy818

Twohothardware wrote: »

Yung_deezy818 wrote: »

They prob got sick of D.C. Steamrolling the map the last two - three months before with the austilian influx of DC players and wanted to try to balance the campaign for survival. Until this campaign AD was normally 1 bar while EP and D.C. Stayed 3.

That was because AD had 3 bars hiding in Haderus then lol. AD's population is considerably larger than the other 2 alliances. Like I hopped on my AD character for a moment earlier and the queue for Scourge was 126. AD plays when they're winning and give up when they're not.

I know AD presence in had. The only reason we have as much AD in Scourge atm is exactly what you said cause we winning. But overall alliance with most population no way. Everyone knows EP has largest population this is due from skyrim fan boys. now on Scourge D.C. And EP always outnumber us per players (besides this current camp), where in had AD would outnumber. But across all servers I say EP is biggest. AD only has control of Scourge atm and usually HAD but I seen had has gotten more competitive. I know we stepped up pressance in chillrened atm (vengeance of the dominion) but we lost bodies in skull and still don't see many in thorn. And I know a lot of AD currently in Scourge. I wish they did remove IC population from the count as it would better represent the alliances and who's active in camp and allow the smarter guilds to help balance all campaigns. No one should ever enjoy pushing an alliance to lo off and demoralize. It in the end will kill the campaign and make a buff server. In Scourge I'll never have my groups pass horns. I'm all about holding horns, and when 15 min Eval hit arrius glade king crest rayles warden and Farragut resources. Unless we making an EMP push or decide to take a scroll for some reason.