Maintenance on ESO Megaservers - 9/14/16 @ 2:00pm EDT [COMPLETE]

mythlover20

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

You need to compensate or refund eso+ members this is disgusting and ridiculous. Every company, gaming or not.

And i'm not even eso+. No way im buying it if you carry on like this

No they don't, because it's such a small loss it doesn't even matter. Why don't people get that? And I'm an ESO+ member, living on disability. If the small losses don't bother ME, why do they bother all of YOU?

Actually, they do. When they release the game they make a promise to provide a service. That service is, with the exception of third-party-attacks and scheduled maintenance, continuous service of the game world, world wide, for everyone. Period. Occassional problems are to be expected, but occassional is a very, very small number.

You wish to make a comparison to a different MMO? Okay. Lets start with Black Desert Online. It came out in March. I played it from a week before release (early-bird access), and played it until this month. That is six months of solid, daily game play.

How many times was "occassional?" Three. Not three a week, or three a month. It was three for six months. ONLY three. Every time players were given compensation for it by way of in-game items, such as experience scrolls, gold, potions, that sort of thing.

Now, let's look at ESO. How many times is "Occassional" for ESO. Two or three. Every. Single. Week. In two months that comes to a total of 16-24 unexplained service disruptions that no one has been compensated for in any way, shape, or form. Only two of those 16-24 were DDoS attacks, and standard weekly maintenance was not included in that number.

Black Desert Online doesn't even offer a subscription service, and it cost half of what ESO did, and its developers knew that to keep the community happy, you have to treat them with respect, and make amends when you *** up. It's called empathy and apologising, and its importance is taught to every two-year-old child in the world.

ESO *is* a game with a subscription service, and it cost double, and the basic compassion that BDO offers it's players is no where to be seen in-game. BDO isn't any smaller - it's world game is the size of ESO and it isn't bound by 'factions and thus had loading screens, and it has the same number of PC servers as ESO. It even had the same number of players (it is Korean, after all)! Yet that game can offer basic decency yet ZoS can't?

Then there is your behaviour. Having compassion for another person is one thing; but, people still need to be held accountable for their actions. Business, even more so. The video game industry already has an image problem outside the gaming community that it exists only for children, and there is no need to take it seriously. However, it is one of the biggest money-making industries in the Western world. Yet people such as you refuse to hold them accountable for their mistakes. It may be an online environment, but if you make a mistake, you still have to apologise and offer recompense - it's basic manners. If we translate the lack of service ZoS has providing it's customers for the entire two months I've been here to another game medium - say, table top gaming and Monopoly- this would mean you would buy a shiny box with beautiful cover art, in a well-made container, only to open it and find that half of your player pieces are missing, the game board is half-finished, some of the cards just weren't included in the first place and those that are there weren't printed properly. You still have game pieces, the rules, the money is all there, and those cards you do have are legible and usable, but you've still been ripped off.

Letting companies get away with not providing a service their business is built upon is not only illogical, it is dangerous. Lets take the car industry. this lack of service would be akin to not including a brake line. The car looks fine, starts fine, but try to stop, and suddenly a vital component is gone, all other cars of the same make and model are recalled, and the company loses billions of dollars in revenue, and loses customer support for the next few years. Translate it to the food industry: someone forgot to deliver a fridge, food goes off, people get sick and die. Medical industry: specialised fridge breaks *again*, vaccines go bad, people die. Farms: quality control takes it easy, produce not fit for sale gets stocked on Supermarket shelves. Supermarkets: aforementioned produce is sold, but can't be eaten. Canning industry: cans doesn't actually contain the food it says it does, or doesn't contain the amount specified on the label. Furniture industry: forget a brace and weight limits are compromised, lifetime is drastically reduced, and item breaks. Gardening industry: quarantine officer takes a break, pest species gets through quarantine, overtakes the natural environment (think in terms of feral cats and the native bird life of... well, everywhere).

At each point some small part of the service the various industries and companies therein were supposed to provide wasn't provided. Mostof the consequences are small and only affect one or two people. Some of them affect an entire town, some affect an entire ecosystem.

There is only one real difference between these industries and the video game industry: all of them are held accountable for their actions. The video-game industry isn't.

BUT, and this is a big but, there is a growing trend within our society that is allowing companies of all industries to get away with not providing the service they state they provide. Take the aforementioned canned goods industry in Australia, for example. The weight and amount of actual food in the can is usually grossly misrepresented, both in the weight stated on the label, and in the "Ingredients" list. It also doesn't happen once or twice, it happens *all the time* but people have decided that being lied to is what is to be expected, and until the extent of industry's corruption was exposed by independent journalists they didn't hold the companies to standard. Just like you're doing right now.

The video game industry is an entertainment industry, it is true, but it is still an industry. If the companies therein wish to survive (and our economy is still so very fragile that one bad quarter is all it takes to wipe them out) they need to provide the service they say they will, and apologise and make recompense when they don't, even if it isn't their fault. Just lying back and accepting it and thinking of England isn't going to help anyone, and it is a way of thinking that cannot be allowed to be continued anywhere, for the good of society and its peoples as a whole.

TL;DR: Just do what you say you are going to do, apologise when you don't even if it isn't your fault, and make amends. It's better than letting everyone just do whatever the hel they want.

Also, what makes you so important that your feelings should be considered the only right ones? Treat them with respect, of course - especially the forum managers; but expect respect in return. Otherwise all you will get is a corporatocracy where mega wealthy can run all over you and get away with it.

UltimaJoe777

ElBiggus wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

If the small losses don't bother ME, why do they bother all of YOU?

Why does it bother you that it bothers other people? This bugged the heck out of me during the NMS debacle, too -- people who liked the game or weren't annoyed seemed to feel that nobody else was allowed to be annoyed either. If you're fine with the status quo then more power to you, but that doesn't mean we all have to take it lying down.

Who says people being bothered bothers me? I may be empathetic to certain things but I'm not THAT empathetic lol

I'm also not so cold as to not understand the plight of those frustrated by downtime. I get it, what gamer doesn't? But I also know it cannot be helped and must be done. Therefore, the compensation I get is knowing Zenimax cares enough to keep their game running. Heck, they even completed maintenance ahead of time!

Enodoc

yttoks wrote: »

So, now for a reaally stupid question: what exactly/how much is rolled back (WTH is a rollback), I see I don't have the pots I wasted in vMA that wouldn't save progress, so either inventory isn't affected or it's not that long of a rollback.

What does a computer dummy need to know about what happened in game today, from a practical game point of view?

@yttoks A rollback is a database error which causes your character to be reverted to a previous state. The severity of the error determines what the effect is.

For example, the rollback could be absolute. In this situation, your progress is completely reverted, undoing absolutely everything you've done since the database was last stable. This is most obvious by your character being in a different location than where you left them, as they will be back at the place they were in when the stable database backup was taken.

Alternatively, the rollback could be partial if only part of the database was affected. You may lose some quest progress, earned XP, or inventory items; equally you may not lose items but still lose quest progress, or you may lose something else and not these.

Perhaps @ZOS_GinaBruno is able to give details on the extent, period, and severity of the rollback? (If indeed there is one; remember the point of the maintenance in the first place was to prevent further rollbacks after the earlier server issues.)

FleetwoodSmack

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ElBiggus wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

If the small losses don't bother ME, why do they bother all of YOU?

Why does it bother you that it bothers other people? This bugged the heck out of me during the NMS debacle, too -- people who liked the game or weren't annoyed seemed to feel that nobody else was allowed to be annoyed either. If you're fine with the status quo then more power to you, but that doesn't mean we all have to take it lying down.

Who says people being bothered bothers me? I may be empathetic to certain things but I'm not THAT empathetic lol

I'm also not so cold as to not understand the plight of those frustrated by downtime. I get it, what gamer doesn't? But I also know it cannot be helped and must be done. Therefore, the compensation I get is knowing Zenimax cares enough to keep their game running. Heck, they even completed maintenance ahead of time!

Now if they'd just bring back staff flipping or dancing while running, I'd be happy as a lark. Or... Some metaphor like that.

Chaos0720

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Chaos0720 wrote: »

And just so you know I imagine the conversation at ZOS went something like this:

Okay guys. We have two choices. Choice 1 - take the servers now, fix the problem, and have people only lose at most 3 hours of progress. Or Choice 2 - let this be until we do maintenence next week and then roll everyone back a week. Now let's vote on which will affect people more.

Okay choice 1 will bring out all the nerd ragers that think they can do our jobs better, but Choice 2 will hurt the people we actually care about - the fans that play the game.

So choice 1 it is - release the salt. Our loyal players will be happier losing 3 hours of progress instead of losing 1 week of progress.

Sadly, people won't bother understanding this. =/

But we did.

UltimaJoe777

freespirit wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

ZOS I will make this simple and to the point. You need to get your act together. These down times are getting old especially for those of us who are paid subscribers and are missing out on game time with no reimbursement.

I am a paid subscriber, and I expect no reimbursement for them doing their jobs. It's not like ESO+ costs $50 a month you know...

What game costs 50 dollars a month wtf?!?

Exactly lol if you can't afford a mere $15 a month or feel this would be better spent elsewhere then simply don't sub. Besides, not ALL of sub benefits are going unused while offline (research times).

For some people that 15$ is worth 3-4 days of food.

Yeah and I can vouch for that lol oft times more in fact! However, if money is that tight they have no business subbing in the first place.

I think that it is each individual's right to decide whether they sub or not......

If money is tight and believe me I know that one really well, then I think the decision depends on who will be impacted by the allocation of money to the subscription.

It is not anyone's right to tell that person how to manage their finances.

Of course, but as someone who has made mistakes with finances in the past I know all too well what a lack of proper priority can do, and would rather not see that happen to others.

UltimaJoe777

DARKNESSCHAINED wrote: »

I'd love to say that I've never seen so much complaining and trash talk in one forum, but I'd be lying. And everyone would know it.

You're right, because this IS that forum lol

Robbmrp

Everyone just relax about the server stability. The NA Servers are back online. Zenimax finally got hold of Dell Customer Service.....

UltimaJoe777

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Creezy wrote: »

This is unacceptable. Period. I am not a Beta-tester - I actually put some $$$ into this game. Still I feel treated like one.

No matter what the ZOS fanboys say in this forum - this is unacceptable.

And the fact you say fanboy labels this post entirely as hate with no merit or credibility.

He's not the one losing credibility in this thread.

Right, because positive people are always shunned.

/sarcasm

UltimaJoe777

Nysara wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Creezy wrote: »

This is unacceptable. Period. I am not a Beta-tester - I actually put some $$$ into this game. Still I feel treated like one.

No matter what the ZOS fanboys say in this forum - this is unacceptable.

And the fact you say fanboy labels this post entirely as hate with no merit or credibility.

You think you will be rewarded when you keep defending them? With current problems, you don't have your ESO to defend soon lol.

ZoS won't give anything to fanboys except more downtime and maintenance. So be happy.

Oh look, another hater thinking ESO will die soon. What are the odds?

UltimaJoe777

tat2mano wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Yeah and I can vouch for that lol oft times more in fact! However, if money is that tight they have no business subbing in the first place.

And who are you to judge over that?
I get "paid" every week from whats left after paying every bill,
and if i buy eso+ i need to eat less then i could normally.
Maybe thats also why people like me defend theyr own money harder then they defend the owner of some game they have,
a game they are paying for or have paid for once,
even if people never subbed,they are still paying costumers btw,
its not they got the game for free.

I saw more hate from you towards people legitly complaining in this thread then hate coming from people genuinly dissapointed that the server is/was down again.

I do not judge, I simply point things out. If I had little to no spare cash at hand I'd save it up rather than sub, or do anything else of that sort for that matter.

If by hate you mean me hating haters, then I agree and you would be correct.

UltimaJoe777

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Yeah and I can vouch for that lol oft times more in fact! However, if money is that tight they have no business subbing in the first place.

Because if you're poor, you totally should never have any fun, amirite? Riiight....

Actually I am poor and do just fine in that field. But I also know planning your budget is a must. For further misconceptions refer to my posts regarding people replying to that post for more info.

FlaviusVoyage

Has anyone experienced severe rollbacks? Just curious.

UltimaJoe777

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

AyeshaBelladonna wrote: »

ashfault wrote: »

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

DarknessShallFall wrote: »

Oh my gosh you people complain to freaking much, if they didn't do this, the game would be complete junk, what would you rather have? Lots of maintenance to get a problem fixed, or have it where it's not and get kicked, get viruses, and a bunch of other stuff all the time, I seriously doubt anyone here could do better, so quit your griping and complaining, either get on PTS, another game, or just be quiet.

Honestly Darkness, all we are asking for is a warning....you know the countdown saying the server is going down...you have played this game long enough to notice that they usually give you a countdown right? Oh yea I know you have cuz you are in one of my guilds, the one that complains about almost everything, lol.

food for thought: So if they normally give warning but didn't give warning maybe they did not have time for said warning?

no, gina even stated they CHOSE to not wait and put up a warning, in an effort to expedite prevention of progression loss. it was a choice made, not an emergency crash. five minutes warning for 2 hrs maintenance when they likely rollback will be to when servers went back up this morning shouldn't have been an issue. mainly so folks didn't get caught in the middle of actions that could glitch like mail, and guild store sales. ect. things that can be lost in limbo land that zos will have to deal with account by account. many of us wouldn't have started that last boss fight oct either, adding to the frustration of a potential rollback. this may have created additional problems that will need fixing vs a 5minutes that wouldn't have affected anyone more than it already has.

:and on a side note... except for scheduled maintenance warnings they NEVER bother to tell us they suddenly need to take the server down for something. last one took several hours and again was something they had to take the server down for NOT and actual server crashing. this is a reoccurring lack of courtesy:

I can say the same about everyone bitching about the maintenance.

So you agree it is a lack of courtesy?

By the community's haters, yes. If I had to say something about Zenimax though it is true they are a bit TOO silent at times, but can ya blame them? Every single time they say something and there are people that disapprove they bite their heads off and even make memes out of what they say. If anything, the community needs to be a bit more open and welcoming and less hateful if they EVER want Zenimax to be more openly communicative with us. That said, any lack of courtesy that DOES happen to come from Zenimax is understood, at least by me.

CapuchinSeven

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Do their jobs, THEN you can judge.

I do. Literally.

Our server load is likely has high as ESO.

Our resources are much lower and our uptime is 100% over the last three years.

ZOS likely don't even own their own data centers.

I meant their actual jobs. Just because you work IT doesn't mean you know 100% what they do or don't do. You literally have to work for Zenimax for that qualification.

lol keep on moving those goal posts with every post you make dude.

UltimaJoe777

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

Dont twist his words,he is right,
if ZoS would do a decent job or hire decent techs these problems what occur now wouldnt happen (this frequently s they do).

+Agreed. Its obvious to me whoever in charge is incompetent with so much downtime and so little ever being fixed.

What's obvious is how many haters are on these forums. You only remain on said forums because Zenimax finds you amusing and they are extremely lenient on banning problem-causers.

Love ZOS all you want, they're not going to love you back, buddy.

You're not going to get a cookie for mounting fallacious arguments in defense of this unscheduled, unannounced, unexplained down-time that booted everyone from the game without an in-game warning.

If I had a CP for everyone that thinks I simply love Zenimax I'd probably be maxed out by now. The saddest part though is how so many think that's the case with me, even sadder is how much they and others believe it. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Haters gonna hate. And they will especially hate on positive people, all for *** and giggles.

UltimaJoe777

tat2mano wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

Dont twist his words,he is right,
if ZoS would do a decent job or hire decent techs these problems what occur now wouldnt happen (this frequently s they do).

He twisted nothing. You people are overreacting. I honestly have not heard of there being a rollback issue for a good while now.

We are talking about ( unscheduled) downtimes,
and the reason why they occur doesnt interest me,and i dont even want to know,i am not and never wil be an IT,
i just wants my game ,where we pay for,to work so we are able to play it when we want,
not when its suitable for ZoS.

And I totally understand that, and I also understand Zenimax does these maintenance so we DO have that game. Frustration aside, and shameful hating, Zenimax DOES deliver on that part. If they didn't, we wouldn't be here right now, and wouldn't for a long time.

UltimaJoe777

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dotlife wrote: »

I gotta say that I personally dont belive they are going to really truely fix it. This will remain unstable and the upcomming 'fix' will just plove the way for yet another soon to come fix. It seems like its spinning out of control. I am glad I dont have any money invested.

You honestly think they cannot fix a rollback issue? I can't even properly respond to that because it's beyond illogical. They run this game for a living, of course they can fix the issue. After all, not being able to would mean the game's literal demise.

Like they fixed gap closers, cheat engine, and movement speed bugs right?

GG

/End Discussion

A few ongoing BUGS and lack of server SECURITY compared to a SERVER ISSUE like this is not comparable. Your self-declared victory is denied.

UltimaJoe777

TUHD86 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ElBiggus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

But if they were doing their job it would not be malfunctioning.

Imagine I ran a train company, and three or four times a week I took all my trains off the track (sometimes during peak commuter time), throw any passengers out wherever the trains happen to be, mumble that I don't know how long it'll take, and then do a rubbish repair job so that they'll all just break down in another day or so and I'll have to do it again. Would you say I was doing my job? No. My job is to run trains, and if you were a passenger you'd be entitled to complain.

For some reason there's a percentage of gamers who will vehemently defend business practices that in any other field would put you out of business really quickly: failing to deliver on promises, selling products that don't work properly, providing terrible customer service, and a whole host of other failings are apparently something we have to put up with, and I don't see why. If you're not annoyed then great, good for you, but don't you dare tell me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and that this kind of service is not only acceptable, but is in some way how it's supposed to be.

You people saying they aren't doing their job because of malfunctions seriously need to get a clue. EVERYTHING IN LIFE BREAKS DOWN AT SOME POINT! Doing your job means fixing it. Not doing your job means leaving it broken. If your car breaks down and you take it to a repair shop and they fix it they did their job. If they didn't fix it then it either died completely or they didn't do their job. How would you feel if they told you if you did YOUR job it would not have broken down in the first place?

Okay, apparently you don't have one *** clue do you? Prime aspect of IT management is PREVENTION. That's why you have *** redundancies, backups, reserves etc for every important aspect if you're running an 24/7 online business, ESPECIALLY if it's an high-use, hardware-intensive focused business.

No, not every bug, crash etc can be prevented. Code is too complex and too unstable for that, especially at the level a program like TESO runs. But what also is prevention is 'backup control' so your customers do not get kicked out for every minor or major issue, and at optimal, never even notice you encountered a problem serverside.

Now guess where Zenimax incredibly fails. Either that, or their code is that *** that they can't handle all the errors they have serverside, in which case I question the skill of the programmers and QA.

I've seen plenty of server applications userside, as well as some insights in how other resource-intensive internet-based businesses work. TESO is by far one of the worst offenders out there when it comes to user experiences related to server-side malfunctions.

@ZOS_GinaBruno : thanks for the update. Better notifications would be nice though. Also, those 5 minutes upon the hour - 2 hours probably affected doesn't really make a difference though does it, if communicated correctly...

You say I don't have the clue but you completely validated what I HAVE been saying AND threw in some hate to boot. Yeah, I have absolutely noooo clue palsy. Thanks for enlightening me

tat2mano

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Yeah and I can vouch for that lol oft times more in fact! However, if money is that tight they have no business subbing in the first place.

And who are you to judge over that?
I get "paid" every week from whats left after paying every bill,
and if i buy eso+ i need to eat less then i could normally.
Maybe thats also why people like me defend theyr own money harder then they defend the owner of some game they have,
a game they are paying for or have paid for once,
even if people never subbed,they are still paying costumers btw,
its not they got the game for free.

I saw more hate from you towards people legitly complaining in this thread then hate coming from people genuinly dissapointed that the server is/was down again.

I do not judge, I simply point things out. If I had little to no spare cash at hand I'd save it up rather than sub, or do anything else of that sort for that matter.

If by hate you mean me hating haters, then I agree and you would be correct.

You can read what i mean.

UltimaJoe777

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

You know what? Other games, GW2 and Warframe seem to manage it. You know what else? Companies with far less resources running far more critical services manage to do it.

IF this was once or twice you wouldn't (and in fact haven't) of heard a peep from me, but this is now becoming a constant feature.

Needing to bring down services over and over again because of problem after problem with no warning AND no real information to the customer about why this keeps happening is not doing your job.

Wrong. It IS doing their job because doing their job means fixing problems. Seriously at least try to use common sense with your hate-filled arguments. Also stop comparing other companies to this because different games use different hardware and content. Their games are probably WAY easier to maintain than ESO is. I wouldn't know though as I don't work on any games so I have no right to judge, nor do you. Do their jobs, THEN you can judge.

I understand that there are humans behind the scenes who do actually want to make this work, and I feel for them, but this is a flawed line of thinking. You don't have to be a chef to be able to say that the food was poorly made. You can be frustrated with the quality of service compared to other companies.

That being said, I was going to play on my break between classes, but looks like I'm getting a head start on homework, instead.

Opinions are opinions for sure, and everyone is entitled to them. However, it is unfair to jump to conclusions like these people are just because you get frustrated with something that doesn't even happen as often as people are letting on. Now if you can get the approximate specs and all the other juicy tidbits of other games' hardware and Zenimax's THEN you can compare

And when you get those same specs and tidbits, your blind loyalty will be a little less blind, and you'll have slightly more credibility.

All I hear from you at this point is "hate hate hate" so it's clearly obvious the only ones that think I have no credibility are haters. And guess what? I couldn't care less! So yeah keep hating bub.

In fact, do yourself a favor and just ignore me already if all you can do is hate. Problem solved!

UltimaJoe777

Toybot wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

I worked in software and system testing in two large companies (one national and one multinational) and we implemented countless projects, updates, patches, etc. Every project we did utilized the network team in some capacity, some of them more prominently than others. And it was a rare occurrence to have the amount of issues ZOS has on such a regular basis. If we had half the problems ZOS has with any of our online systems that dealt with the customer base we would have lost countless customers and lost untold millions (likely in double to triple digit millions) in losing those accounts. Therefore this level of incompetency would have never been tolerated. But because this is a gaming company that has zero concern about losing customers because of their prepaid monthly subscription, this sort of thing happens far more frequently than it ever should.

I don't care how people justify or excuse it. Because their customer base is largely kids and young adults, they get away with murder. The companies I worked for would have fired people for such incompetency or would have bit the bullet and upgraded systems as needed if they were failing that consistently. We're just one big paying beta group to them. Prepaid in many cases with the multimonth subs. In pretty much every other business model the kind of downtime we have seen would cause a huge loss in consumer faith, in consumer loyalty and in business revenue. It would possibly even leave the company in dire straight.

Think I'm exaggerating? What if went to amazon, netflix, or whatever other business you might frequent were offline as much as we are down with 'maintenance' here? Well on those two the stocks would likely begin to take serious hits and you'd begin to see a slow and steady mass exodus of consumers. Here? Because the demographic is teens and young adult oriented? They get away with murder.

TOTALLY agree, I've said it before and you've said it here it's shocking what computer game companies get away with, in comparison to other networking teams.

I work on a large software development project for a cloud-based product and there is NO WAY our customers would tolerate the frequency nor duration of these maintenance windows.

Those that defend and support this practice as being acceptable are only contributing to the demise of this game because this is an exploit opportunity for a competitor to come along and offer a better service.

By speaking up against this and demanding better, we are defending this game and our community.

This is unacceptable!!!

You know, people keep trying to justify their hatred of Zenimax with their own personal careers and it STILL doesn't mean SQUAT until they know EXACTLY what Zenimax works with first-hand. Not that your professions don't have their own merits of course, but that still is no basis to prove anything about Zenimax.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

ajback_ESO wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

You know what? Other games, GW2 and Warframe seem to manage it. You know what else? Companies with far less resources running far more critical services manage to do it.

IF this was once or twice you wouldn't (and in fact haven't) of heard a peep from me, but this is now becoming a constant feature.

Needing to bring down services over and over again because of problem after problem with no warning AND no real information to the customer about why this keeps happening is not doing your job.

I agree, I think you should become a network manager or systems admin and go to work for them! Show these professionals how its done! Mr. End User.

I am.

We have 100% up time over 3 years.

If our services go down, it's possible lives could be lost.

We do it with far far less money and resources than ZOS.

If our services fail, we run multiple redundancies, and our server load is likely as heavy as any MMO.


*very very slow clap*


Again, this is happening over, and over, and over again. Not every now and then, not once in a while. Over and over again.

Last I checked, barring RECENT downtime, it IS every now and then or once in awhile. Also it sounds like what you do is NOT entertainment-related so big difference right there.

Frankly, until you work with Zenimax you cannot possibly comprehend what they do or go through, no matter how good at your tech profession you are. That is why I and others understand what they must do. The question is, why don't YOU? Oh right, because it's easier to be a hater I suppose.

Do you work with Zenimax? Cuz I just checked your profile. Since June 2015, you've posted over 8000 times in the forums. That's about 16 posts per day. It appears as if devoutly defending ZOS in the forums is your full-time job. Do you actually play this game or just skulk around the forums all day, every day?

Honestly, I've seen your posts in this thread and your defense of ZOS is dangerously close to zealous and irrational. It's justifiable and understandable to be unhappy about the server going down with no warning. Saying nobody has the right to be upset because of all the things we *don't* know is not a valid argument.

Making a LOT of assumptions. Just because I am active doesn't mean I work for Zenimax. In fact, compare my stats to an actual dev and that will prove it.

What's irrational is how much people are always hating on these forums.

I never said no one has the RIGHT to be frustrated and upset, but they are all pinning the blame on things not to blame. THAT is what is not right. Be frustrated and upset at the downtime to your heart's content, no law says you cannot, but don't take it out on those not at fault.

Asking a lot of questions, not making assumptions. None of which you answered. The person making assumptions on this thread has been you -- on every page. Clearly, I looked at your "stats" and my point stands: living on the forums as a full-time ZOS cheerleader is nothing to brag about. Over 8000 posts in 15 months is nothing to brag about. On the contrary, it's demonstrative that you'd rather post in the forums than play the game.

All you've done for 20+ pages is attack anyone who voices discontent -- anyone who doesn't think ZOS walks on water, you go after them, belittling their 100% valid complaints.

When asked how/why you can possibly defend ZOS so blindly, you resort to thin reasoning and baseless assumptions. No kidding, you've made one negative argument after another, none of which are valid. You keep insisting that we should think or behave a certain way because of things we do not know, which is asinine. Ask Samuel L Jackson about what the "absence of evidence" means, logically speaking.

Here are some classic negative arguments that are invalid and irrational:
"I don't know that there isn't a Porsche in my garage, so there might be a Porsche in my garage."
"There's no evidence showing he is not the murderer, so he must be guilty."
"We don't know Iraq does not have WMDs, so we should invade just to be sure."

What you're doing goes well beyond giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt. What you've done is disparage dozens of valid arguments as to why/how a service provider should reliably provide that service, discounting numerous posts about how downtime can be avoided/prevented, entirely.

And the whole time, you've not once conceded that you have no idea what the problem is or whether or not this will be a permanent fix. The reason I asked whether or not you work with ZOS is that, by your own fallacious standards, that's the only way you can say anything about the current situation with any semblance of credibility, so if you don't work with ZOS, then by your own standards, you have no leg to stand on, either.

You've been unhelpful, unreasonable, and antagonistic for the last several hours. ZOS is not infallible, so your baseless defense of and blind loyalty to Zenimax and their sacrosanct downtime is borderline pathologically obsessive. So for you to insinuate anyone *else* is a fanboy... That's a clear case of projection if there ever was one.

UltimaJoe777

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

We're gonna need some pepper for all of this salt. These people be upseeeeeet.

I KNOW right? I mean sure some of it is founded and understandable but the rest? Damn...

vyndral13preub18_ESO

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

AyeshaBelladonna wrote: »

ashfault wrote: »

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

DarknessShallFall wrote: »

Oh my gosh you people complain to freaking much, if they didn't do this, the game would be complete junk, what would you rather have? Lots of maintenance to get a problem fixed, or have it where it's not and get kicked, get viruses, and a bunch of other stuff all the time, I seriously doubt anyone here could do better, so quit your griping and complaining, either get on PTS, another game, or just be quiet.

Honestly Darkness, all we are asking for is a warning....you know the countdown saying the server is going down...you have played this game long enough to notice that they usually give you a countdown right? Oh yea I know you have cuz you are in one of my guilds, the one that complains about almost everything, lol.

food for thought: So if they normally give warning but didn't give warning maybe they did not have time for said warning?

no, gina even stated they CHOSE to not wait and put up a warning, in an effort to expedite prevention of progression loss. it was a choice made, not an emergency crash. five minutes warning for 2 hrs maintenance when they likely rollback will be to when servers went back up this morning shouldn't have been an issue. mainly so folks didn't get caught in the middle of actions that could glitch like mail, and guild store sales. ect. things that can be lost in limbo land that zos will have to deal with account by account. many of us wouldn't have started that last boss fight oct either, adding to the frustration of a potential rollback. this may have created additional problems that will need fixing vs a 5minutes that wouldn't have affected anyone more than it already has.

:and on a side note... except for scheduled maintenance warnings they NEVER bother to tell us they suddenly need to take the server down for something. last one took several hours and again was something they had to take the server down for NOT and actual server crashing. this is a reoccurring lack of courtesy:

I can say the same about everyone bitching about the maintenance.

So you agree it is a lack of courtesy?

By the community's haters, yes. If I had to say something about Zenimax though it is true they are a bit TOO silent at times, but can ya blame them? Every single time they say something and there are people that disapprove they bite their heads off and even make memes out of what they say. If anything, the community needs to be a bit more open and welcoming and less hateful if they EVER want Zenimax to be more openly communicative with us. That said, any lack of courtesy that DOES happen to come from Zenimax is understood, at least by me.

You know for someone who seems to have so many problems with this thread, that you even asked for it to be locked. You spend a whole lot of time going back and replying to post from pages ago.

It is almost like you are the only thing keeping this thread alive. Yet you seem to have nothing but problems with it.

It is rather amusing when you think about it.

Voxicity

Thank you ZOS for not wiping my precise maelstrom dagger I got like 5 minute's before server going down, bless you and everyone who works there I want to buy you doughnuts and cakes and a dog called Charlie

UltimaJoe777

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Chaos0720 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dotlife wrote: »

I gotta say that I personally dont belive they are going to really truely fix it. This will remain unstable and the upcomming 'fix' will just plove the way for yet another soon to come fix. It seems like its spinning out of control. I am glad I dont have any money invested.

You honestly think they cannot fix a rollback issue? I can't even properly respond to that because it's beyond illogical. They run this game for a living, of course they can fix the issue. After all, not being able to would mean the game's literal demise.

Like they fixed gap closers, cheat engine, and movement speed bugs right?

GG

/End Discussion

Makes sense. Blame the developers because people have nothing better to do than to break the game.

So to fix the run speed bug i shouldnt move... And to fix the gap closer issues i should stand still in a flat area and wait for everything to come to me. Ya know, so i dont break the game.

The movement speed bug... Yeah that's an issue no one can help but Zenimax. It'll be nice when they finally do fix it and other things. Exploits and Cheat Engine though... That is purely player-side. Just because it's there doesn't mean go abuse it.

UltimaJoe777

DARKNESSCHAINED wrote: »

So much blame getting tossed around, insults and other trash talk. Like, seriously there is a such thing as patience and life outside of video games. An online game down isn't the end of the world. I promise. Go outside, check and see. My words hold truth.

Indeed they do. Sadly, people would rather stay online and be salty for amusement. In fact, my positive presence here has made me the target of several haters. Funny thing is they can hate all they want and I wouldn't budge one bit

By the way for those that may have misinterpreted anything I said as offensive I apologize for that, particularly the bit about money handling. I meant no ill will with that, just speaking out of personal experience of past poor handling of finances.

tat2mano

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

AyeshaBelladonna wrote: »

ashfault wrote: »

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

DarknessShallFall wrote: »

Oh my gosh you people complain to freaking much, if they didn't do this, the game would be complete junk, what would you rather have? Lots of maintenance to get a problem fixed, or have it where it's not and get kicked, get viruses, and a bunch of other stuff all the time, I seriously doubt anyone here could do better, so quit your griping and complaining, either get on PTS, another game, or just be quiet.

Honestly Darkness, all we are asking for is a warning....you know the countdown saying the server is going down...you have played this game long enough to notice that they usually give you a countdown right? Oh yea I know you have cuz you are in one of my guilds, the one that complains about almost everything, lol.

food for thought: So if they normally give warning but didn't give warning maybe they did not have time for said warning?

no, gina even stated they CHOSE to not wait and put up a warning, in an effort to expedite prevention of progression loss. it was a choice made, not an emergency crash. five minutes warning for 2 hrs maintenance when they likely rollback will be to when servers went back up this morning shouldn't have been an issue. mainly so folks didn't get caught in the middle of actions that could glitch like mail, and guild store sales. ect. things that can be lost in limbo land that zos will have to deal with account by account. many of us wouldn't have started that last boss fight oct either, adding to the frustration of a potential rollback. this may have created additional problems that will need fixing vs a 5minutes that wouldn't have affected anyone more than it already has.

:and on a side note... except for scheduled maintenance warnings they NEVER bother to tell us they suddenly need to take the server down for something. last one took several hours and again was something they had to take the server down for NOT and actual server crashing. this is a reoccurring lack of courtesy:

I can say the same about everyone bitching about the maintenance.

So you agree it is a lack of courtesy?

By the community's haters, yes. If I had to say something about Zenimax though it is true they are a bit TOO silent at times, but can ya blame them? Every single time they say something and there are people that disapprove they bite their heads off and even make memes out of what they say. If anything, the community needs to be a bit more open and welcoming and less hateful if they EVER want Zenimax to be more openly communicative with us. That said, any lack of courtesy that DOES happen to come from Zenimax is understood, at least by me.

You know for someone who seems to have so many problems with this thread, that you even asked for it to be locked. You spend a whole lot of time going back and replying to post from pages ago.

It is almost like you are the only thing keeping this thread alive. Yet you seem to have nothing but problems with it.

It is rather amusing when you think about it.

Was aware of that also.

UltimaJoe777

beattle wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ElBiggus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

Enodoc wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I love the way people think that bringing servers down over and over and over again is "ZOS doing their job". NOT bringing down servers all the time and keeping services running is doing your job.

Sure, because keeping a malfunctioning service running is a great idea.

But if they were doing their job it would not be malfunctioning.

Imagine I ran a train company, and three or four times a week I took all my trains off the track (sometimes during peak commuter time), throw any passengers out wherever the trains happen to be, mumble that I don't know how long it'll take, and then do a rubbish repair job so that they'll all just break down in another day or so and I'll have to do it again. Would you say I was doing my job? No. My job is to run trains, and if you were a passenger you'd be entitled to complain.

For some reason there's a percentage of gamers who will vehemently defend business practices that in any other field would put you out of business really quickly: failing to deliver on promises, selling products that don't work properly, providing terrible customer service, and a whole host of other failings are apparently something we have to put up with, and I don't see why. If you're not annoyed then great, good for you, but don't you dare tell me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and that this kind of service is not only acceptable, but is in some way how it's supposed to be.

You people saying they aren't doing their job because of malfunctions seriously need to get a clue. EVERYTHING IN LIFE BREAKS DOWN AT SOME POINT! Doing your job means fixing it. Not doing your job means leaving it broken. If your car breaks down and you take it to a repair shop and they fix it they did their job. If they didn't fix it then it either died completely or they didn't do their job. How would you feel if they told you if you did YOUR job it would not have broken down in the first place?

Yes, things break down, but it seems you a perfectly ok of band aid solutions that fix nothing in the long run. Using the initial posters example, if a train broke down, was repaired, then broke down again a few days later, one would send that train to a shop to have it fully inspected. From this inspection, they would fix ALL problems they find, instead of keeping same train in service knowing it will break down again next week, the week after that....... Keeping something in service knowing you didn't really fix a problem in hopes of keeping revenue, in the long run looses more revenue then having it completely repaired.

Maybe it is time that this game shuts down the servers to do a complete overhaul to fix what is causing all these problems, no matter how long it takes, instead of taking the pain off a ripped off band aid from a wound, just to put another band aid on top of it a few days later.

If Zenimax feels that is necessary they will do it. Then again, funding could be an issue there. As for the "long run", it's quite long and there is plenty of time to run it lol

What may be an issue now can very well be fixed 2 years from now. Am I willing to wait that long? So long as Zenimax doesn't screw the pooch too badly then yes, I am. Honestly though, One Tamriel is not necessarily to my liking in terms of where leveling is going, so I'm honestly on thin ice right now regarding whether I stay playing or not. One more bad update is all it would take...