Thoughts on Malestorm weapons in normal mode

Dubhliam

I would not mind...

Superior CP150 Maelstrom weapons in normal mode.

Otherwise: GIT GUD.

iRogue32

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

The second that vma drops weapons on normal is the second everyone has them and vet is abandoned, unfortunately it wont help players in quite the way they think it will though. If I see a new raider show up for his dps test with these weapons I now expect a 25k+ dd (unbuffed). So when he pulls 15k WITH a vma weapon I am going to go ahead and decline his admission outright instead of giving me a few weeks to work on it (as I normally would without BiS).

What most people dont seem to realize is that this next level of game-play does exist and by allowing the "public" access to this BiS equipment it is just making it easier and easier to expect better right off from them. You want to talk about elitist let me have a stam dk show up with a dagger and an axe and NM/VO for his unbuffed and hit 20k, i'll laugh so hard it will kick me off teamspeak for spamming.

Except that 20k unbuffed is actually not at all bad DPS for legit anything but HM MoL...

Hell, I've beaten vet maelstrom and I only have 26k unbuffed (assuming you mean no warhorn, spc, etc)

20k unbuffed on a stationary target over a 60s fight with a vma weapon can be broken fingered by anyone that is told the rotation 10 minutes before. Keep in mind that 20k unbuffed is enough to clear all the vet trials (minus mol) without an issue, but the vet trials on HM is a different story. Moving / rezzing / mechanics etc that dps will drop considerably and from a purely mathematical standpoint you will not clear AA HM with each dps doing ~15k unbuffed (taking into account moving).

Which imo, is why you have a core/premiere/elite team. I get that you want competance from your guild mates, totally fine and dandy. Training n00bs is part of the game, and as long as someone is willing to learn there is no real reason to kick them. Especially since I doubt one 500 person guild would have every single slot filled with a person that can perform in the way you're discussing. I know for sure I cannot.

Just saw a glimpse of "high dps or gtfo" in the post and thought I'd make sure

News Flash: End game content requires high dps and raid awareness

And I don't think he was implying that people with low dps should gtfo, just pointing out that there is a dps requirement for higher end content

Humatiel

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

The second that vma drops weapons on normal is the second everyone has them and vet is abandoned, unfortunately it wont help players in quite the way they think it will though. If I see a new raider show up for his dps test with these weapons I now expect a 25k+ dd (unbuffed). So when he pulls 15k WITH a vma weapon I am going to go ahead and decline his admission outright instead of giving me a few weeks to work on it (as I normally would without BiS).

What most people dont seem to realize is that this next level of game-play does exist and by allowing the "public" access to this BiS equipment it is just making it easier and easier to expect better right off from them. You want to talk about elitist let me have a stam dk show up with a dagger and an axe and NM/VO for his unbuffed and hit 20k, i'll laugh so hard it will kick me off teamspeak for spamming.

Except that 20k unbuffed is actually not at all bad DPS for legit anything but HM MoL...

Hell, I've beaten vet maelstrom and I only have 26k unbuffed (assuming you mean no warhorn, spc, etc)

20k unbuffed on a stationary target over a 60s fight with a vma weapon can be broken fingered by anyone that is told the rotation 10 minutes before. Keep in mind that 20k unbuffed is enough to clear all the vet trials (minus mol) without an issue, but the vet trials on HM is a different story. Moving / rezzing / mechanics etc that dps will drop considerably and from a purely mathematical standpoint you will not clear AA HM with each dps doing ~15k unbuffed (taking into account moving).

Which imo, is why you have a core/premiere/elite team. I get that you want competance from your guild mates, totally fine and dandy. Training n00bs is part of the game, and as long as someone is willing to learn there is no real reason to kick them. Especially since I doubt one 500 person guild would have every single slot filled with a person that can perform in the way you're discussing. I know for sure I cannot.

Just saw a glimpse of "high dps or gtfo" in the post and thought I'd make sure

My guilds requirements are what is required to complete veteran trials, no more no less. If that is elitist in your mind then I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't ask for 35k DD for runs but making requirements to join a trials guild that are under what is necessary to complete trials is foolish.

As to training new members, thats my entire point. If someone shows up without BiS and shows a good aptitude for learning then my guilds policy is to provide a set of tasks and over the next few weeks have that member set about getting them, hell we normally let them (1) tag along during vet raids because yes.

If people were to get BiS gear from content this easily though and they already show up in BiS then we know beyond doubt its a L2P issue. They just need to become more familiar with there character and there isn't a lot we can do with that short of "let us carry you for the next 90 days while you figure it out".

Lieblingsjunge

Keep the weapons to vMA only. nMA is nice for exp. Grinding CP or low-level characters in there is great. vMA is a pain in the arse- it takes a lot(!) of practise to get the mechanics right. But I know that people who spends time in there, completes it eventually. A friend of mine did it on his Stamplar on 277 CP. But oh boy, did he spend a lot of hours in there, trying to learn the mechanics.

Making every BiS-gear obtainable for absolutely everyone, who doesn't bother to spend more than an hour in the same place, trying to learn it's mechanics is bs. If you want something - work for it. We already get enough served on a silver plate anyway.

Sallington

DschiPeunt wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think this should ever happen.

Gaining materials to upgrade your weapon takes 20 seconds.
Learning how to play takes a lot longer and therefore, players who have earned it should be rewarded.

So, wouldn't that be a good argument to make the best weapons in the game drop from vMoL hardmode only?

Yes. The best weapons in the game dropping from solo content in an MMO is dumb. Incredibly dumb.

Foxic

I'm saying no out of spite. I have around 300 vet completions with a 571 and 574K flawless score and have never got an inferno staff.

If someone got one by running normal I would probably quit the game

Dubhliam

Sallington wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think this should ever happen.

Gaining materials to upgrade your weapon takes 20 seconds.
Learning how to play takes a lot longer and therefore, players who have earned it should be rewarded.

So, wouldn't that be a good argument to make the best weapons in the game drop from vMoL hardmode only?

Yes. The best weapons in the game dropping from solo content in an MMO is dumb. Incredibly dumb.

No, it is actually a really good idea.
Want the best weapons?
EARN THEM!
You cannot get carried in vMA by other players.

Btw, if vMA weapons are that much of a "must have", then why are there sets like Elegance that sells for 1kk per sword piece?
Get down to earth, you can do ANYTHING without the vMA weapons, and they are a great reward for beating the arena.
E.A. becoming a better player.

EsoRecon

NO

EsoRecon

DschiPeunt wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think this should ever happen.

Gaining materials to upgrade your weapon takes 20 seconds.
Learning how to play takes a lot longer and therefore, players who have earned it should be rewarded.

So, wouldn't that be a good argument to make the best weapons in the game drop from vMoL hardmode only?

yes that would be a good argument

EsoRecon

if you can't complete vma you don't deserve best in slot weapons

Dread_Viking

iAmLife wrote: »

At the moment normal mode is a piece of [snip]... no good rewards you can get out of it... here is just a quick thought, since vet rank drops purple/gold weapons, why not make normal drops only white malestorm weapons which then the player would need to upgrade via materials. Also yes then people would spam their filthy [snip] for a white weapon and get them easy... that's what your thinking right? probably not but I'm still going to cover it ... funny guy...

Make the drop rate quite low so it's not easy to get compared to vet. What do you guys think of this? [snip]

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait and censor bypass.]

i like it

MaxwellC

@iAmLife
Sure you should get a maelstrom weapon on normal but it won't give you any bonuses such as the weapon damage enchant or it's feature like merciless charge. I do not think it's fair to undermine everyone who's completed vet after testing and trying because you can't complete vet and will do normal and expect something from it that's suppose to be top tier.

Foxic

EsoRecon wrote: »

if you can't complete vma you don't deserve best in slot weapons

The main problem is. You don't get bis weapons for beating vma. One of the best maelstrom runners in the world, streak. Doesn't even have any of the weapons he wants

EsoRecon

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@iAmLife
Sure you should get a maelstrom weapon on normal but it won't give you any bonuses such as the weapon damage enchant or it's feature like merciless charge. I do not think it's fair to undermine everyone who's completed vet after testing and trying because you can't complete vet and will do normal and expect something from it that's suppose to be top tier.

so basically it would just be a normal weapon.

EsoRecon

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

if you can't complete vma you don't deserve best in slot weapons

The main problem is. You don't get bis weapons for beating vma. One of the best maelstrom runners in the world, streak. Doesn't even have any of the weapons he wants

Well that is a completely different conversation all together.

EsoRecon

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

if you can't complete vma you don't deserve best in slot weapons

The main problem is. You don't get bis weapons for beating vma. One of the best maelstrom runners in the world, streak. Doesn't even have any of the weapons he wants

That just means that vma needs a token system, which isn't what this thread is about.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I don't even care about getting Maelstrom weapons anymore. Yeah it would be nice to get one but it isn't worth the trouble to me. If I am going to do content it is going to be content I enjoy. I have attempted vMA many times and every time just ends with rage. Why do the content if it just causes rage? You don't even need the weapons unless you are a super competitive player. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are perfectly fine with not having any vMA weapons. Maybe later on when I reach the CP cap I will attempt it again and I will try to do it with a different class but until then I am fine with doing the content I actually enjoy doing.

Sallington

Dubhliam wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think this should ever happen.

Gaining materials to upgrade your weapon takes 20 seconds.
Learning how to play takes a lot longer and therefore, players who have earned it should be rewarded.

So, wouldn't that be a good argument to make the best weapons in the game drop from vMoL hardmode only?

Yes. The best weapons in the game dropping from solo content in an MMO is dumb. Incredibly dumb.

No, it is actually a really good idea.
Want the best weapons?
EARN THEM!
You cannot get carried in vMA by other players.

Btw, if vMA weapons are that much of a "must have", then why are there sets like Elegance that sells for 1kk per sword piece?
Get down to earth, you can do ANYTHING without the vMA weapons, and they are a great reward for beating the arena.
E.A. becoming a better player.

Every single highest DPS parsing build uses Maelstrom weapons. Of course you can clear content without them, I've been clearing vMA just fine without them since the RNG is this game is absurd, but that's a whole other topic.

The point is, there is still too much of an emphasis on solo content for what are what 99% of people believe to be the best weapons in the game. In an MMO, that's crazy.

"Hey, want to run SO with a guild group?"
"Sorry guys, I'm in vMA farming for my weapons. Maybe in a couple weeks when I get the drops I need."

EsoRecon

Sallington wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think this should ever happen.

Gaining materials to upgrade your weapon takes 20 seconds.
Learning how to play takes a lot longer and therefore, players who have earned it should be rewarded.

So, wouldn't that be a good argument to make the best weapons in the game drop from vMoL hardmode only?

Yes. The best weapons in the game dropping from solo content in an MMO is dumb. Incredibly dumb.

No, it is actually a really good idea.
Want the best weapons?
EARN THEM!
You cannot get carried in vMA by other players.

Btw, if vMA weapons are that much of a "must have", then why are there sets like Elegance that sells for 1kk per sword piece?
Get down to earth, you can do ANYTHING without the vMA weapons, and they are a great reward for beating the arena.
E.A. becoming a better player.

Every single highest DPS parsing build uses Maelstrom weapons. Of course you can clear content without them, I've been clearing vMA just fine without them since the RNG is this game is absurd, but that's a whole other topic.

The point is, there is still too much of an emphasis on solo content for what are what 99% of people believe to be the best weapons in the game. In an MMO, that's crazy.

"Hey, want to run SO with a guild group?"
"Sorry guys, I'm in vMA farming for my weapons. Maybe in a couple weeks when I get the drops I need."

I like solo content, (because I have no friends), but I agree that best in slot gear/weapons shouldn't be only available in solo content. I mean this is an MMO.

Woeler

Low effort, low rewards.

iRogue32

Woeler wrote: »

Low effort, low rewards.

exactly

Shader_Shibes

DschiPeunt wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Seriously, nVMA is a joke, it's there, laughably, to learn the mechs without the damage of vet so should not drop bis weapons.

Ok, then no alkosh/aether/ophidian in normal trials anymore and I am happy.

Fine, should be like that anyway ^^

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

There are still many updates to come. I am sure eventually there will be group content that rewards weapons that are on par with Maelstrom weapons.

idk

juhasman wrote: »

No. Level difficulty of normal MA dont deserve to have even small chance to get malestorm weapon from there. And fact it could be white weapons is hilarious since it cost 1k gold to improve it to purple which drops on vMA.

Agree. nMA and nDSA are far to easy to warrant giving out the premium rewards even as low drop rates. Besides, then so many would qq because they did 100 nMA before getting their first weapon and it was weapon they didn't need and had a crappy trait.

Just a bad idea.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Well, you can just buy the kena set now, sooooo.....

Foxic

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Well, you can just buy the kena set now, sooooo.....

What does that have to do with anything

Magic_Doogies

iAmLife wrote: »

Make the drop rate quite low so it's not easy to get compared to vet. What do you guys think of this? [snip]

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait and censor bypass.]

That literally won't change anything. It doesn't matter if the drop rate is super low because normal Maelstrom Arena is so easy that once you did it the first two times, even a DPS with decent vigor, reflex skills and only around 2400 weapon damage can beat the whole thing. (like me.)

On top of that there are a lot of people like me who not only have quite a few tempers to spare in upgrading acquired weapon but also buying the tempers your lacking in is really cheap. Especially if you maxed out your improvement temper stats.


Look, I understand that these forums are filled with min/maxers and they make out these weapons to be the end all be all of the game. Now there is no doubt that they are more powerful than anything, but there are more than enough crafted and dropped builds out there that you can do more than well enough to dps/heal/tank in trials, pledges, and 1v1 PVP.

Maelstrom is something you truly have to work your way up towards. Build up your skill points, collect shards, get guildies to help craft you sets you can't make, unlock those shields, etc.

I only tried vMA once and didn't even beat the first round. I also saw WHY I had an issue. I had no shields and no potions (none of my characters are there yet.) So now I'm going to work on that a lot more before retrying. I'm not impatient about it. This isn't something you can eventually bullrush with a good group.

And there is no real reward or satisfaction on getting these weapons in normal when all the mobs and bosses died like you are 30 levels overpowered.

Totalitarian

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Well, you can just buy the kena set now, sooooo.....

Best Kena shoulders are the ones I bought from the Undaunted Vendor day 1 ;_;

ValkynSketha

Nôöóòõœøőo, what they should do is adding trait change system, or clean the loot table, or a token system but ofc all of these were suggested before and still, but zeni.don'tlisten

potirondb16_ESO

iAmLife wrote: »

At the moment normal mode is a piece of [snip]... no good rewards you can get out of it... here is just a quick thought, since vet rank drops purple/gold weapons, why not make normal drops only white malestorm weapons which then the player would need to upgrade via materials. Also yes then people would spam their filthy [snip] for a white weapon and get them easy... that's what your thinking right? probably not but I'm still going to cover it ... funny guy...

Make the drop rate quite low so it's not easy to get compared to vet. What do you guys think of this? [snip]

[snip]

[Edit to remove bait and censor bypass.]

Nan, that's inconsistan with reward mecanism, if you want a Maestrom weapon which isn't essential to your build but simply a nice addition, you need to complete the content since overall giving you the weapon this early in your progression wouldn't mean a thing and would become more of a curse then a gift.

It's true that Maestrom take an awfull lot of time to get adjusted to. Stamina build who don't want to do PVP for vigor almost can't make it. Magicka build who'ren't looking to change some stuff around to complete it the first time also have issue. Not using potion in order to adapt to the difficulty you have, also become challenging... But it's also part of the game. The issue with normal mode dropping vma is actually the learning curve behind it.

So yes overall, if the drop rate could be 1/100 run it could be interesting but at the same time ... wouldn't it be awfull for the player who start to believe he only got a shot at normal mode ? I've seen player pulling over 30k dps without them and I saw player complete vma at 300cp...So what about the player who's not taking his chance on vMA... overall I feel giving them acces to the vma weapon wouldn't become a gift as much as a curse for those player. Meaning if you have luck at getting a weapon from normal mode, and you start thinking that you're done with it because you've been Lucky and got a Sharpened Fire Staff... well... in the long run those player won't probably have a definite advantage since they haven't got through the Learning process of vMA...

That's the main issue about giving higly seek after weapon too early... Yes, there's also RNG and yes there's also a skill barrier but overall the fact that we give too early Inside the game the weapon you'll be looking foward at end-game is probably the worst thing you can do in order to improve the attractivity of the Learning curve.

So I hope you don't feel you've been troll but to be honnest some player are really challenge Inside this game by the Learning curve and it's not so good since it does create gap that the itemization can't fulfill. The only option I would like is if weaker version, not lower quality version, would come to drop. Something in the line of 35% of the curent veteran version. Something who could be a nice reward adapt to the difficulty level... example 35% of the enchant weapon damage boost, and 35% of the skill increase... That I would fall for and give it 25% drop chance.