What is Magicka DK's greatest weakness?

Sharee

Lack of mobility

DKsUnite wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

[
The idea is that when you start a fight with a DK, you do not have to fear getting killed in a few seconds, but you also know that if you allow the fight to go on for a while, you will eventually lose.

the dots have to drain resources in order for that to happen otherwise the vigor rally roll spam will prevail

I thought that a stacking healing debuff, or continually increasing ticks would take care of that. But yea, a resource drain would work as well.

Xsorus

Sharee wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

[
The idea is that when you start a fight with a DK, you do not have to fear getting killed in a few seconds, but you also know that if you allow the fight to go on for a while, you will eventually lose.

the dots have to drain resources in order for that to happen otherwise the vigor rally roll spam will prevail

I thought that a stacking healing debuff, or continually increasing ticks would take care of that. But yea, a resource drain would work as well.

What you want is Last Gasp from rift or playing with fire in warhammer.

Basically last gasp acted like a form of healing debuff in that every you were healed you took damage. Playing with fire made the healer take damage whenever a target was healed with that dot on it.

As for the dot and excute thing from the previous post. How about making inferno a pressure shield. Basically you apply dots then apply inferno for 6 seconds; if your target is cleansed of his dots while inferno debuff is up it reapplies the dots only say 20% stronger and uncleanseable or make it apply to the person who cleansed the dots.

soll

Lack of damage

lack of execution

Sharee

Lack of mobility

Xsorus wrote: »

As for the dot and excute thing from the previous post. How about making inferno a pressure shield. Basically you apply dots then apply inferno for 6 seconds; if your target is cleansed of his dots while inferno debuff is up it reapplies the dots only say 20% stronger and uncleanseable or make it apply to the person who cleansed the dots.

Could work. Might have trouble with templars who continually cleanse everything as soon as it is applied, so you wouldn't have time to stack dots and then inferno them before they are removed tho.

iAmLife

Water... ever thought of that? No you only think about yourself

Aquanova

Lack of sustain

And an execute.

Armitas

Lack of sustain

Sharee wrote: »

]

That's a good idea, i just doubt that ZOS would give DK's this since they specifically mentioned they do not want people to fear being executed as their HP gets low when they are fighting a DK. I know what you propose technically isn't an execute, but it would fill that role.

I wish he cared as much about the DK as he does the people fighting the DK. He doesn't care about how it feels to fight any other class as a DK, just the classes, like his own, that fight the DK. This guys concerns are all over the place.

Does Wrobel know that stamDK's have executes?

Armitas

Lack of sustain

Xsorus wrote: »

T

In fact I can come up with an inferno change right now.

Make inferno ignite all your current dots on the target to do damage per each one and removes those dots. So basically dot up and when they're about to end you burst them.

I like it but it's too much to carry. Flamelash, talons for powerlash, burning embers, and engulfing flame and now FOB. Its just too much on the action bar. What if we make Powerlash ignite the dots. Powerlash normally only happens every 5 seconds so thats half way into your dots.

The Uninvited

Lack of damage

Damage, plain and simple.

Last night I crafted my wife a better set in Epic for her magicka Templar. She went up 10K in damage using just 3 skills, while I'm decked out in Legendary BIS gear using 5 or more skills to get even close to the damage she does now. All the while draining my resources...

Armitas

Lack of sustain

DKsUnite wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

[
The idea is that when you start a fight with a DK, you do not have to fear getting killed in a few seconds, but you also know that if you allow the fight to go on for a while, you will eventually lose.

the dots have to drain resources in order for that to happen otherwise the vigor rally roll spam will prevail

That would be really cool. Engulfing flames would be perfect for that. Have it increase magicka costs on the target while giving you the increased amount consumed by the opponenet for sustain. If we can't win now like the other classes give us some tools to win further into the fight. We could be the Pepe Le Pew of cyrodiil. I'm sold. If that is a problem for PvE just make the bosses immune to the new magicka defile.

The Uninvited

Lack of damage

Armitas wrote: »

If that is a problem for PvE just make the bosses immune to the new magicka defile.

I think that a lot of PVE DK's (myself included) wouldn't find that a problem at all.

Ghostbane

Lack of sustain

ZoS are not going to change their stance on how ultimates are generated, I would like battle roar to be removed and the class get some worth while sustain passives.

Class damage is fine.

Dragonblood. Needs. Looked. At. Either amended in battle spirit or completely redone. I am a bit cautious on changing dragonblood to a magicka HoT, as how it operates in PvE is very very nice.

After much musing over months, a class execute would be lovely, but it is not wholly necessary.

For me, getting the class in a magicka stance to operate on a specific baseline on par with other classes is essential. There are too many principles to cater for to make a semi-efficient mDK for pvp. Some of these worries should be provided by class passives themselves, mostly in regarding to sustain. It would be nice not to be pigeon holed to *requiring* 1 or 2 ultimate generation sets, just to have sustain.

caeliusstarbreaker

I almost believe if you fix mdk, less people will play stamina and the game will be balanced.

DKsUnite

Lack of sustain

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I almost believe if you fix mdk, less people will play stamina and the game will be balanced.

so many stamplars and stamDKs will reroll back xD

forzajuve212

Lack of sustain

Asmael wrote: »

Lack of mobility is by design, and I'm fine with it, if I get something else in exchange.

Damage is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it (even Maluplars die, that says a lot).

Tankiness is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it.

Bit different for healing: mag DKs have strong in combat healing options with Burning embers (1v1 or 1v2) and Deep Breath, but lack a strong self-healing option (hello Dragon Blood my old friend... That I'm better off not using on a 70k health build...).

Sustain is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it.

But what's wrong with mag DKs then?

Simple: To get any of the above points classified "fine", you need to sacrifice something else, hence the "if you invest enough into it". I need 5 different DoTs and light armor on a 40k magicka build with Skoria if I want to break tanky builds, I still need a CC, a mitigation ability and a way to self-heal, and suddenly I'm left with very few slots... Wings? Deep Breath? Shuffle? Mutagen? Healing Ward? Fossilize? Drain? Talons? Can't have them all. I actually have to sacrifice something to be good at something else.

What if I drop some DoTs? Well, I get some utility, but I reach a point where I simply can't kill most tanky builds, even tho I'm on light armor with a rather aggressive setup otherwise. I'm supposed to stack DoTs, where other classes don't need to. I can't kill decent players within seconds of the start of a fight without an ultimate. I can't kill some at all without drastically changing the build.

Right off my head, I have 2 builds in mind for stam DK, one has all options except mobility, the other has everything except tankiness. Try to get 4 of these qualified as "fine" on a mag DK.

Thus, my answer is "having to actually sacrifice something", which in my book is good design, but only shows that other classes are performing "too well".

Also, #BuffDragonBlood

This @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

caeliusstarbreaker

DKsUnite wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I almost believe if you fix mdk, less people will play stamina and the game will be balanced.

so many stamplars and stamDKs will reroll back xD

Don't hate the stamplar, hate the game.

Sugaroverdose

Lack of sustain

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Open world pvp mDK just needs an actual self heal. Being forced into a resto staff takes away from the classes passives which synergize well with s&b. Along with that you cant expect a DK to heal with embers or deep breath when you need an enemy to apply them too.

It makes zero sense that dragons blood still doesnt properly heal as it should. It is a self heal that is pretty expensive, that even at 10% health does a lesser heal than breath of life which is a multi target heal.

There are more than enough sets in ESO for mDKs to obtain dmg and sustain at the same time, however healing doesnt fall into this category, even though DKs are supposed to be the "tankier" calls with no real mobility.


No mobility plus no reliable self heal = disaster!

Twilights embrace*5+wormcult*5= +14% healing gain, -5%magicka cost of spells

Ghost-Shot

Lack of damage

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Open world pvp mDK just needs an actual self heal. Being forced into a resto staff takes away from the classes passives which synergize well with s&b. Along with that you cant expect a DK to heal with embers or deep breath when you need an enemy to apply them too.

It makes zero sense that dragons blood still doesnt properly heal as it should. It is a self heal that is pretty expensive, that even at 10% health does a lesser heal than breath of life which is a multi target heal.

There are more than enough sets in ESO for mDKs to obtain dmg and sustain at the same time, however healing doesnt fall into this category, even though DKs are supposed to be the "tankier" calls with no real mobility.


No mobility plus no reliable self heal = disaster!

Twilights embrace*5+wormcult*5= +14% healing gain, -5%magicka cost of spells

- all of your already poor damage

DUTCH_REAPER

Lack of healing

being a magic DK

Sugaroverdose

Lack of sustain

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Open world pvp mDK just needs an actual self heal. Being forced into a resto staff takes away from the classes passives which synergize well with s&b. Along with that you cant expect a DK to heal with embers or deep breath when you need an enemy to apply them too.

It makes zero sense that dragons blood still doesnt properly heal as it should. It is a self heal that is pretty expensive, that even at 10% health does a lesser heal than breath of life which is a multi target heal.

There are more than enough sets in ESO for mDKs to obtain dmg and sustain at the same time, however healing doesnt fall into this category, even though DKs are supposed to be the "tankier" calls with no real mobility.


No mobility plus no reliable self heal = disaster!

Twilights embrace*5+wormcult*5= +14% healing gain, -5%magicka cost of spells

- all of your already poor damage

Add scoria, don't try to get 2k magregen unbuffed and you'll have not that bad dmg.
If you want to whine instead of f*ing meta - i won't try to convince you)

Ghost-Shot

Lack of damage

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Open world pvp mDK just needs an actual self heal. Being forced into a resto staff takes away from the classes passives which synergize well with s&b. Along with that you cant expect a DK to heal with embers or deep breath when you need an enemy to apply them too.

It makes zero sense that dragons blood still doesnt properly heal as it should. It is a self heal that is pretty expensive, that even at 10% health does a lesser heal than breath of life which is a multi target heal.

There are more than enough sets in ESO for mDKs to obtain dmg and sustain at the same time, however healing doesnt fall into this category, even though DKs are supposed to be the "tankier" calls with no real mobility.


No mobility plus no reliable self heal = disaster!

Twilights embrace*5+wormcult*5= +14% healing gain, -5%magicka cost of spells

- all of your already poor damage

Add scoria, don't try to get 2k magregen unbuffed and you'll have not that bad dmg.
If you want to whine instead of f*ing meta - i won't try to convince you)

Aren't you a templar?

Airyus

Lack of healing

Lack of healing is definitely a major root cause of the issues we face. Having to slot defensive skills to make up for this inhibits our potential damage. Dragon blood is the key.

K4RMA

Lack of healing

Recently I've swapped from Kags/Magnus to Tavas/Sun and found that sustain isn't too much of an issue, mobility is meh but I can still get out of a bad situation quite easily with mist, damage is once again meh but AoE is where mDK excels so taking advantage of that has been good in 1vX situations, I've found that mDK with it's buffs up and s&b can be quite tanky, but healing.........

Either I take advantage of mDK's AoE (bbq) potential by running Engulf. + Deep Breath + Talon spam, or drop Engulf. and pick up Burning Embers for a reasonably good burst heal but lose 10% damage from fire attacks.

Decisions......

#nerfDB

Kilandros

Lack of sustain

Jules wrote: »

ALL OF THE ABOVE

Armitas

Lack of sustain

Wow, a fairly even spread and no one is mistaken. It amazes me how long they have let things get this way, and how long still before they do something about it.

IxskullzxI

Armitas wrote: »

Wow, a fairly even spread and no one is mistaken. It amazes me how long they have let things get this way, and how long still before they do something about it.

Well mDK was op for so long. It's only fair they blow for longer. Right? ZoS logic probably.

Mustard

Lack of healing

Wtb heals!!

Sugaroverdose

Lack of sustain

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Open world pvp mDK just needs an actual self heal. Being forced into a resto staff takes away from the classes passives which synergize well with s&b. Along with that you cant expect a DK to heal with embers or deep breath when you need an enemy to apply them too.

It makes zero sense that dragons blood still doesnt properly heal as it should. It is a self heal that is pretty expensive, that even at 10% health does a lesser heal than breath of life which is a multi target heal.

There are more than enough sets in ESO for mDKs to obtain dmg and sustain at the same time, however healing doesnt fall into this category, even though DKs are supposed to be the "tankier" calls with no real mobility.


No mobility plus no reliable self heal = disaster!

Twilights embrace*5+wormcult*5= +14% healing gain, -5%magicka cost of spells

- all of your already poor damage

Add scoria, don't try to get 2k magregen unbuffed and you'll have not that bad dmg.
If you want to whine instead of f*ing meta - i won't try to convince you)

Aren't you a templar?

I'm always open for something which isn't meta.
After some testing i would say that baddest thing about mDK is insanely overpriced abilities which cannot be compensated because of zero choice in morphs

Lokey0024

Lack of mobility

No synergy with heavy armor, and expected to be a front line fighter, not range. Melee attacks dont regen magika.

Dot duration is to long. Lowet dot times and make them viable. Larger dmg ticks=better. And dont lower dmg and duration, defeats the purpose.

The blood of dragons in my veins. I shouldnt have to wave a puny stick around to rejuvinate myself. Rework DB to be a magika vigor, or make it an actual number healed instead of %

Give fractured shield a heavy armor % mod to shield size or scaled off magika. The former synergizes better imo.

Bashev

Lack of healing

Does anyone know why Cauterize is the only healing ability in the game that cannot heal the caster?