Lack of mobility is by design, and I'm fine with it, if I get something else in exchange.
Damage is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it (even Maluplars die, that says a lot).
Tankiness is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it.
Bit different for healing: mag DKs have strong in combat healing options with Burning embers (1v1 or 1v2) and Deep Breath, but lack a strong self-healing option (hello Dragon Blood my old friend... That I'm better off not using on a 70k health build...).
Sustain is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it.
But what's wrong with mag DKs then?
Simple: To get any of the above points classified "fine", you need to sacrifice something else, hence the "if you invest enough into it". I need 5 different DoTs and light armor on a 40k magicka build with Skoria if I want to break tanky builds, I still need a CC, a mitigation ability and a way to self-heal, and suddenly I'm left with very few slots... Wings? Deep Breath? Shuffle? Mutagen? Healing Ward? Fossilize? Drain? Talons? Can't have them all. I actually have to sacrifice something to be good at something else.
What if I drop some DoTs? Well, I get some utility, but I reach a point where I simply can't kill most tanky builds, even tho I'm on light armor with a rather aggressive setup otherwise. I'm supposed to stack DoTs, where other classes don't need to. I can't kill decent players within seconds of the start of a fight without an ultimate. I can't kill some at all without drastically changing the build.
Right off my head, I have 2 builds in mind for stam DK, one has all options except mobility, the other has everything except tankiness. Try to get 4 of these qualified as "fine" on a mag DK.
Thus, my answer is "having to actually sacrifice something", which in my book is good design, but only shows that other classes are performing "too well".
Also, #BuffDragonBlood
MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Every class should be designed like Magicka DK: build for tankiness OR build for healing OR build for sustain OR build for damage. Choose one!
The other classes (especially Stamina) get to have tankiness AND healing AND sustain AND damage, all at once. This should not be allowed.
Joy_Division wrote: »I only put damage here because the class has zero burst and that has been the only way to kill people in PvP since 1.6
But I think their biggest problem is they do not have a way to combine damage + healing + tankiness the way stam builds ant mag temp can.
They can can get each of these things, but not in a package deal.
You fail at making damages because you're a zergling, you don't hate guild enough. Have Dan kick you now and maybe you can git gud.Ghost-Shot wrote: »I have the scariest 4k whips you've ever seen!
To Smith with Dragon Claws
(Battle Chant of the Intrepid Two Hundred)
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
If you attack us, you will meet talons.
If you strike us, you will eat spikes.
If you injure us, our wounds will close.
If you anger us, you will burn.
If you run from us, we will pounce upon you.
You cannot win. We cannot lose.
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
HoloYoitsu wrote: »You fail at making damages because you're a zergling, you don't hate guild enough. Have Dan kick you now and maybe you can git gud.Ghost-Shot wrote: »I have the scariest 4k whips you've ever seen!
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I'll say Healing and Tankiness
However there is a caveat which is tankinessTo Smith with Dragon Claws
(Battle Chant of the Intrepid Two Hundred)
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
If you attack us, you will meet talons.
If you strike us, you will eat spikes.
If you injure us, our wounds will close.
If you anger us, you will burn.
If you run from us, we will pounce upon you.
You cannot win. We cannot lose.
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
From the in-game book, Simply put "We are Dragons!" Gosh darn it we don't need to be able to run!...what we need is more tankiness, better sustain, and better heals so we can STAND OUR GROUND against inumerable opponents and fight to the end taking many down with us if its a zerg.
- If you attack us, you will meet talons. - Bring back the range Talons used to have
- If you strike us, you will eat spikes. Up the Damage Return on Volatile Armor
- If you injure us, our wounds will close. - Buff the healing on Dragonblood to scale with magicka
- If you anger us, you will burn. - Increase the damage of our Ardent Flame abilities, whip in particular.
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
Period! Never forget it! Let us be dragons ZOS instead of being Puff the wimpy Dragon...let us stretch our wings and roar!!!!
I disagree. I think this is kind of where the buff mDK narrative goes off the rails. They are still viable, a lot of fun to play, and add a lot to a group.Magicka DKs just don't have a place in the current meta anymore.
No defense? Untrue. Reflective Scales may have some bugs, but it's still pretty awesome. DKs have a blocking mitigation bonus, strong healing passives, passives that allow for Stamina to be regained while blocking, and excellent CCs. These things can all be leveraged when playing a high damage build.Yes, they can do damage, but theyll have absolutely no defense and get popped in seconds by any high burst build. How are you going to recover from a 13k incap strike? Dragon Blood?
Oh, and even if you've got a build going with decent damage good luck actually being able to dish that damage out properly because your damage is all melee-ranged and your mobility is almost zero while most of your opponents except for magplars will be far more mobile than you could ever hope to be. Actually, magplars at least have a proper magicka gap closer with a built-in CC so nevermind that.
Add on top of that that DKs simply have no really good way to really reliably finish off a player who's losing a fight at a particular moment. No execute, no really good hard CC. Vamp drain is OK when cancelled but it has its' limits. On my stam DK I can put a hard CC of 3.5 seconds on people with my main damage ability and I can even stun whole groups for 2.5 seconds with my Dawnbreaker ulti, imagine that.
Lack of mobility is by design, and I'm fine with it, if I get something else in exchange.
Damage is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it (even Maluplars die, that says a lot).
Tankiness is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it.
Bit different for healing: mag DKs have strong in combat healing options with Burning embers (1v1 or 1v2) and Deep Breath, but lack a strong self-healing option (hello Dragon Blood my old friend... That I'm better off not using on a 70k health build...).
Sustain is absolutely fine if you invest enough into it.
But what's wrong with mag DKs then?
Simple: To get any of the above points classified "fine", you need to sacrifice something else, hence the "if you invest enough into it". I need 5 different DoTs and light armor on a 40k magicka build with Skoria if I want to break tanky builds, I still need a CC, a mitigation ability and a way to self-heal, and suddenly I'm left with very few slots... Wings? Deep Breath? Shuffle? Mutagen? Healing Ward? Fossilize? Drain? Talons? Can't have them all. I actually have to sacrifice something to be good at something else.
What if I drop some DoTs? Well, I get some utility, but I reach a point where I simply can't kill most tanky builds, even tho I'm on light armor with a rather aggressive setup otherwise. I'm supposed to stack DoTs, where other classes don't need to. I can't kill decent players within seconds of the start of a fight without an ultimate. I can't kill some at all without drastically changing the build.
Right off my head, I have 2 builds in mind for stam DK, one has all options except mobility, the other has everything except tankiness. Try to get 4 of these qualified as "fine" on a mag DK.
Thus, my answer is "having to actually sacrifice something", which in my book is good design, but only shows that other classes are performing "too well".
Also, #BuffDragonBlood
Well done. I've also though the same for a very long time. It is impossible to slot everything you need to compete in openworld on a MagDK. Utility, Damage, Sustain, Tankyness is spread out between too many abilities making it impossible to find the perfect balance for solo / small scale openworld pvp.MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Every class should be designed like Magicka DK: build for tankiness OR build for healing OR build for sustain OR build for damage. Choose one!
The other classes (especially Stamina) get to have tankiness AND healing AND sustain AND damage, all at once. This should not be allowed.
Yep, indeed. Been saying that for 2years almost. Remember the triangle in the character creation process with Large, Muscular, Epic on each corner? It should be the same when choosing if you want to focus on Damage, Survivability or Sustain.Joy_Division wrote: »I only put damage here because the class has zero burst and that has been the only way to kill people in PvP since 1.6
But I think their biggest problem is they do not have a way to combine damage + healing + tankiness the way stam builds ant mag temp can.
They can can get each of these things, but not in a package deal.
Why is burst the only option to kill people?
The damage is mainly lacking with the setup; they lost a lot of burst with the prox and dawnbreaker changes. Before that it was losing things like miss chance from cinder and the blocking nerf.
They need to change inferno to some kind of burst move and give dragons blood a hot and give cinder storm dodge chance
In fact I can come up with an inferno change right now.
Make inferno ignite all your current dots on the target to do damage per each one and removes those dots. So basically dot up and when they're about to end you burst them.
You can make a morph say a defensive one where you burst dots on you instead of your dots to do pbae damage or something or convert them into a hot.
Multiple ways you could go with that ability
The damage is mainly lacking with the setup; they lost a lot of burst with the prox and dawnbreaker changes. Before that it was losing things like miss chance from cinder and the blocking nerf.
They need to change inferno to some kind of burst move and give dragons blood a hot and give cinder storm dodge chance
In fact I can come up with an inferno change right now.
Make inferno ignite all your current dots on the target to do damage per each one and removes those dots. So basically dot up and when they're about to end you burst them.
You can make a morph say a defensive one where you burst dots on you instead of your dots to do pbae damage or something or convert them into a hot.
Multiple ways you could go with that ability
[
The idea is that when you start a fight with a DK, you do not have to fear getting killed in a few seconds, but you also know that if you allow the fight to go on for a while, you will eventually lose.