Magic Sorcs need some MAJOR help and it can't wait until the next update

RinaldoGandolphi

Joy_Division wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

"Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil"

I really hope this was a joke comment....

Had to be. That's the least survivable spec in Cryodiil atm.

At 1st glance, one would think that...but i assure you thats not the case.

such a DK Spec can actually be a very viable shield stacker...My Magicka DK can stack Dampen Magic + Healing Ward + Igneous and his shield stack almost rivals my Sorc...its not quite as large..but it is very viable(Since I use Harness on my Sorc and Harness is smaller in value then Dampen but returns resources) and it does make you immune to crits.

Magicka DK also has reflective scales to counter the archers that are the bane of existence for Sorc sending those poison peppers back in their face, and Elusive Mist is almost as good as Streak...better damage mitigation slightly less run away.

Of course this requires playing a DK thats vastly different then what folks are used to...I don't use Sword and Board at all, but i only play my DK in small groups...i play him more ranged as well...using Crushing Shock, Fire Clench, Eruption, Flame Pulsar, Embers when folks get close, Burning Talons, Fossilize and Draw Essence....

Its not the best spec in the world by a longshot, but its no more or less viable then the Sword and Board version slightly more squishy but slightly more damage and ranged...using Skoria gives it more damage then its Sword and Board cousin, and having a good Fassala tank with you makes killing people with it far easier.

As a solo spec every magic DK spec in the game stinks, the shield stacking version is no more or less viable then the tanky variety because both of them lack the burst damage the other classes have. It is however far easier to stay alive in some cases when poking folks from range, stacking shields, and flaping wings then it is with Sword and Board.

Its very hard however to kill folks alone with either spec which is why i don't pvp on my DK that often...you have to give up lots of damage to be tanky, and you have to be squishy to deal decent damage, trade other classes don't really have to make.

If the day ever comes that the Magicka DK gets:

a viable Dragonblood
a Ferocious Leap that does Flame Damage
a few tweaks to Destro staff

That will mean DK will be free of Sword and Board and Resto staff and the duel Destro Pyromage Dunmer DK will be on par with other specs. Last time i was pvp with him, my Ferocious Leap gave me a 12k Damage Shield...combine that with Dampen Magic, and Healing Ward...and letting it do Flame damage? who needs Sword and Board...give me another Destro that will give me the damage i need to put out lots single target and aOE flame damage that will synergize with my Skoria while also making me survivable enough to be viable.

This is why a Flame damage version of Fericious Leap and a tweak to Dragon Blood is so important...not only does it help the Sword and Board DK, but it finally opens the door the the Pyromancer playstyle in Cyrodiil.

RinaldoGandolphi

A Light Armor Sorc's biggest struggle is dealing with folks who gap close and spam powerful single target stam abilities in your face(like Suprise Attack, Dizzying Swing, Rapid Strikes, Biting Jabs, Dawnbreaker, and Incap Strike)

At this point you have no choice but to Camp Daedric Mines and stack shields and "hope" you get an opening to turn the fight offensive. Since most of Sorc's damage is delayed, this puts them at a disadvantage against the instant spammable nature of such abilities. Your literlaly forced to weather the storm and hope your enemy makes a mistake, Combo a Dawnbreaker with a Mine explosion and Fury or Drop an Atronach to get them off you as your shields won't hold forever. Its very one sided and not in your favor.

Don't get me wrong, Magic Sorc does very well with ranged damage...thats never been the issue. The issue is ranged combat is almost impossible in this game now because gap closers not only do OP type of damage, but they have way too far of a range...it makes ranged combat impossible...it forces every encounter to be melee which puts the light armor Sorc at a district disadvantage as the class isn;t designed to fight in melee, and the nerfs to Streak and the buffs to gap closers with the unpurgable snare and such make it impossible to create distance once they close with you...This is probably the biggest problem Magic Sorcs have....

If the Sorc's skill to create distance is going to be harshly penalized, then the use of Gap closers needs to be penalized in the same manner...if someone spam gap closers on a Sorc and the Sorc is out of resources, the Gap closer should also be out of resources...if Streak is going to be stuck with such an absurd stacking cost increase, Gap closers should have the same stacking cost increase. Both of these skills port your character, and gap closers actually have a much farther port range. Its far too lopsided...look at the damage of Steak compared to Crit rush LOL....i mean its not even a contest.

TankHealz2015

My first Sorc build

5pc Defending Armor - when block dmg enemies in AoE and heal for same amount... healing power on this is awesome!
(jewelry + both weapons sets)

5pc Thunderbug Set - still collecting the pieces I need... fantastic fun Electric AoE dmg

2pc LLambris -- rain down electricity..

This is a total Super-Zapper build and so far I love it...

Anti_Virus

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

A Light Armor Sorc's biggest struggle is dealing with folks who gap close and spam powerful single target stam abilities in your face(like Suprise Attack, Dizzying Swing, Rapid Strikes, Biting Jabs, Dawnbreaker, and Incap Strike)

At this point you have no choice but to Camp Daedric Mines and stack shields and "hope" you get an opening to turn the fight offensive. Since most of Sorc's damage is delayed, this puts them at a disadvantage against the instant spammable nature of such abilities. Your literlaly forced to weather the storm and hope your enemy makes a mistake, Combo a Dawnbreaker with a Mine explosion and Fury or Drop an Atronach to get them off you as your shields won't hold forever. Its very one sided and not in your favor.

Don't get me wrong, Magic Sorc does very well with ranged damage...thats never been the issue. The issue is ranged combat is almost impossible in this game now because gap closers not only do OP type of damage, but they have way too far of a range...it makes ranged combat impossible...it forces every encounter to be melee which puts the light armor Sorc at a district disadvantage as the class isn;t designed to fight in melee, and the nerfs to Streak and the buffs to gap closers with the unpurgable snare and such make it impossible to create distance once they close with you...This is probably the biggest problem Magic Sorcs have....

If the Sorc's skill to create distance is going to be harshly penalized, then the use of Gap closers needs to be penalized in the same manner...if someone spam gap closers on a Sorc and the Sorc is out of resources, the Gap closer should also be out of resources...if Streak is going to be stuck with such an absurd stacking cost increase, Gap closers should have the same stacking cost increase. Both of these skills port your character, and gap closers actually have a much farther port range. Its far too lopsided...look at the damage of Steak compared to Crit rush LOL....i mean its not even a contest.

Everything thing you said here is right especially the the bolded part. Zos melee bias is so huge it cannot be refuted.

mSorc has good defense shield can still be stacked, Daedric mines is a great deterance against melee builds, and pets that support though heals and stuns. But mSorc offense is the problem.

People will always claim that melee should be more advantageous since they have to get close but that argument is moot since there is not disadvantage with being melee.

- higher base WD and dmg overall which leads to more survivability in terms if heals.
- more diversity in builds having 3 distinct weapon skill lines to choose from
- gap closers which encourage spamming, by snaring you, dealing a lot of dmg and now ignoring LOS keep in mind that there is no stacking cost.

mSorcs are stuck mine camping to survive due to streak stacking cost and using dmg skills which are easily avoidable with the exception of daedric curse which now ignores block. Same can be said for archers.

Being tied to a destro staff for main dps is not fun especially when its underdeveloped it's the same for archer builds being forced to use bow since there is no other ranged weapon. What Zos needs to do to balance out ranged vs melee is to place the same stacking cost on gap closers to prevent spamming and make the "ranged advantage" arguement valid.

jhharvest

Agreed, gap closers are very bad for streak, since a streak doesn't even take you out of gap closer range and you get hit with that damn snare every single time someone uses a closer on you. Even two streaks are barely enough to get you out of range but that takes two GCDs versus one for the pursuer.

I use streak, streak, roll dodge, mines, mistform (and repeat) as my escape routine, but even that gets me killed if the other guy just spams one skill. LoS works if it's a suitable location but not everywhere has enough rocks / walls to hide behind. Defensive rune works occasionally too but it doesn't guarantee an escape either, since it's one more GCD to fit into the escape rotation.

Dracane

jhharvest wrote: »

Agreed, gap closers are very bad for streak, since a streak doesn't even take you out of gap closer range and you get hit with that damn snare every single time someone uses a closer on you. Even two streaks are barely enough to get you out of range but that takes two GCDs versus one for the pursuer.

I use streak, streak, roll dodge, mines, mistform (and repeat) as my escape routine, but even that gets me killed if the other guy just spams one skill. LoS works if it's a suitable location but not everywhere has enough rocks / walls to hide behind. Defensive rune works occasionally too but it doesn't guarantee an escape either, since it's one more GCD to fit into the escape rotation.

I have best results with melees, when they are on me: Let's say say they all are beating on me. I take a roll dodge back, streak through them and just spam that this always works.

But you need a 2nd plan. Streaking alone is not going to safe you. You will be out of magicka very soon and by that time, they will have catched up. Then your 2nd plan is to use major expedition and sprint to reach a safe haven or access stealth somehow. As long as you streak or sprint, they will not be able to catch you. But they can sprint for days, you can sprint for a few seconds

Really, the only way to escape is to use an invisible potion.
I always streak as much as I can and sprint as long as I can, until all dots on me are gone and the potion cooldown has resetted. Then I drink the potion and that's really a 100% chance to escape, unless you mess up completely.

SkylarkX

Two things killed sorc for me:

- Being pigeon holed in to a 2 dimensional build/skill rotation because the unviability of the pet skill line in pvp
- The stealth nerfs to streak over successive patches, in particular only being able to streak in the direction your character is facing rather than the direction your camera is pointing (this broke the aspect of sorc I really enjoyed).

SanTii.92

SkylarkX wrote: »

Two things killed sorc for me:

- Being pigeon holed in to a 2 dimensional build/skill rotation because the unviability of the pet skill line in pvp
- The stealth nerfs to streak over successive patches, in particular only being able to streak in the direction your character is facing rather than the direction your camera is pointing (this broke the aspect of sorc I really enjoyed).

You can streak to the camera direction unless rooted.m

SkylarkX

SanTii.92 wrote: »

SkylarkX wrote: »

Two things killed sorc for me:

- Being pigeon holed in to a 2 dimensional build/skill rotation because the unviability of the pet skill line in pvp
- The stealth nerfs to streak over successive patches, in particular only being able to streak in the direction your character is facing rather than the direction your camera is pointing (this broke the aspect of sorc I really enjoyed).

You can streak to the camera direction unless rooted.m

I missed that detail but yeah, given the shift to elder snares online it took the joy out of the class for me..

Joy_Division

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

"Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil"

I really hope this was a joke comment....

Had to be. That's the least survivable spec in Cryodiil atm.

At 1st glance, one would think that...but i assure you thats not the case.

such a DK Spec can actually be a very viable shield stacker...My Magicka DK can stack Dampen Magic + Healing Ward + Igneous and his shield stack almost rivals my Sorc...its not quite as large..but it is very viable(Since I use Harness on my Sorc and Harness is smaller in value then Dampen but returns resources) and it does make you immune to crits.

Magicka DK also has reflective scales to counter the archers that are the bane of existence for Sorc sending those poison peppers back in their face, and Elusive Mist is almost as good as Streak...better damage mitigation slightly less run away.

Of course this requires playing a DK thats vastly different then what folks are used to...I don't use Sword and Board at all, but i only play my DK in small groups...i play him more ranged as well...using Crushing Shock, Fire Clench, Eruption, Flame Pulsar, Embers when folks get close, Burning Talons, Fossilize and Draw Essence....

Its not the best spec in the world by a longshot, but its no more or less viable then the Sword and Board version slightly more squishy but slightly more damage and ranged...using Skoria gives it more damage then its Sword and Board cousin, and having a good Fassala tank with you makes killing people with it far easier.

As a solo spec every magic DK spec in the game stinks, the shield stacking version is no more or less viable then the tanky variety because both of them lack the burst damage the other classes have. It is however far easier to stay alive in some cases when poking folks from range, stacking shields, and flaping wings then it is with Sword and Board.

Its very hard however to kill folks alone with either spec which is why i don't pvp on my DK that often...you have to give up lots of damage to be tanky, and you have to be squishy to deal decent damage, trade other classes don't really have to make.

If the day ever comes that the Magicka DK gets:

a viable Dragonblood
a Ferocious Leap that does Flame Damage
a few tweaks to Destro staff

That will mean DK will be free of Sword and Board and Resto staff and the duel Destro Pyromage Dunmer DK will be on par with other specs. Last time i was pvp with him, my Ferocious Leap gave me a 12k Damage Shield...combine that with Dampen Magic, and Healing Ward...and letting it do Flame damage? who needs Sword and Board...give me another Destro that will give me the damage i need to put out lots single target and aOE flame damage that will synergize with my Skoria while also making me survivable enough to be viable.

This is why a Flame damage version of Fericious Leap and a tweak to Dragon Blood is so important...not only does it help the Sword and Board DK, but it finally opens the door the the Pyromancer playstyle in Cyrodiil.

I've logged a lot of hours on the destro/resto DK since way way back when there was a thing such as ground oils, and you already identified why I think it's terrible: you can't kill anyone and you are giving up a lot of tankiness ... just so you can't kill anyone.

It's going to take more than a few tweaks to the destro staff to make double destro something other PvPers fear. I salute the persistence of people out there who still try and use it with the flame-clench and crushing shock spam, but it is very uncommon in which I analyze how I die (and I pretty much always do) and attribute the death to something a destruction staff did. I do not think any of its skills are anything more then meh and inconveniences and there are real sacrifices being made to armor sets, spell damage, and surviveability in order to use one.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Destro tweaks would go a long way towards making all magicka classes viable. Same for light armor tweaks. I love the idea of light armor passives making all damage shields better. But it is a slippery slope back to OP shield.

Shield duration being increased by .5 second for every piece of light armor. That might work. A buff to shields values would have to be small (2% per piece of light armor at most), otherwise we will have 20k wards again. And another massive outcry against shields

Destro staff penetration passive (10% spell pen) applying to all magicka attacks. That would work, and mostly be a PvP buff, due to resist changes and all the ways to penetrate in pve endgame

Derra

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Destro tweaks would go a long way towards making all magicka classes viable. Same for light armor tweaks. I love the idea of light armor passives making all damage shields better. But it is a slippery slope back to OP shield.

Shield duration being increased by .5 second for every piece of light armor. That might work. A buff to shields values would have to be small (2% per piece of light armor at most), otherwise we will have 20k wards again. And another massive outcry against shields

Destro staff penetration passive (10% spell pen) applying to all magicka attacks. That would work, and mostly be a PvP buff, due to resist changes and all the ways to penetrate in pve endgame

Considering the only buff to shields available in the game is bastion while on the other hand we have ingoing and outgoing heals for cp, major + minor mending + major vitality - i think it´s not completely out of touch to give some shield buff options.

I would go the other way round though. More duration increase with less % increases. 1% for pieces of light armor shield strengh and atleast 1s duration

cschwingeb14_ESO

Considering that the devs thought a 10s ward morph was to long (they tried it on PTS and reverted to 8s), an extra second per piece would probably be to much. That's basically taking 5L to an 11s shield for everyone.

Your point about healing buffs is a good one. Sadly, it would be to much of a buff for shields to make them be affected my healing buffs and debuffs. It would also lose their unique flavor of defense

Dracane

And giving light armor an increase to shield duration, would also nerf people's precious (and overpowered) healing ward.
If the heal takes longer to arrive, doesn't this nerf you ?

The-Baconator

1\2% extra max magicka per piece of light armor equipped. I might even consider running 7\7 light for the first time ever.

Izaki

The-Baconator wrote: »

1\2% extra max magicka per piece of light armor equipped. I might even consider running 7\7 light for the first time ever.

Now that is great. Its amazing actually.

Or make the penetration like 800 per piece equipped, and give a 12% bonus to max magicka with 5 light armor pieces.

willklippsteinb14_ESO

Glantir wrote: »

- change curse to a normal DoT
- remove casttime and knockdown effect of crystalfrag
- reduce sorc skill costs

Problem solved

I wish it would be so easy but I think it isnt..... but would be nice if we didnt forced to use force pulse....

Um...no thx leave Curse alone. no need for it to be a DOT, because then we loose our only shot at good burst, with the curse+frag+Mages wrath, you would gut the class even more so doing it, and we all know that Dk, Templars, and NB would all go on an endless rant if frag had no cast time, even with giving up the stun....leading to even more nerfs, effectively killing the sorc.....bad ideas

Derra

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Considering that the devs thought a 10s ward morph was to long (they tried it on PTS and reverted to 8s), an extra second per piece would probably be to much. That's basically taking 5L to an 11s shield for everyone.

Your point about healing buffs is a good one. Sadly, it would be to much of a buff for shields to make them be affected my healing buffs and debuffs. It would also lose their unique flavor of defense

Quite frankly said. The devs were wrong in my opinion.

Kas

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

A Light Armor Sorc's biggest struggle is dealing with folks who gap close and spam powerful single target stam abilities in your face(like Suprise Attack, Dizzying Swing, Rapid Strikes, Biting Jabs, Dawnbreaker, and Incap Strike)

At this point you have no choice but to Camp Daedric Mines and stack shields and "hope" you get an opening to turn the fight offensive. Since most of Sorc's damage is delayed, this puts them at a disadvantage against the instant spammable nature of such abilities. Your literlaly forced to weather the storm and hope your enemy makes a mistake, Combo a Dawnbreaker with a Mine explosion and Fury or Drop an Atronach to get them off you as your shields won't hold forever. Its very one sided and not in your favor.

Don't get me wrong, Magic Sorc does very well with ranged damage...thats never been the issue. The issue is ranged combat is almost impossible in this game now because gap closers not only do OP type of damage, but they have way too far of a range...it makes ranged combat impossible...it forces every encounter to be melee which puts the light armor Sorc at a district disadvantage as the class isn;t designed to fight in melee, and the nerfs to Streak and the buffs to gap closers with the unpurgable snare and such make it impossible to create distance once they close with you...This is probably the biggest problem Magic Sorcs have....

If the Sorc's skill to create distance is going to be harshly penalized, then the use of Gap closers needs to be penalized in the same manner...if someone spam gap closers on a Sorc and the Sorc is out of resources, the Gap closer should also be out of resources...if Streak is going to be stuck with such an absurd stacking cost increase, Gap closers should have the same stacking cost increase. Both of these skills port your character, and gap closers actually have a much farther port range. Its far too lopsided...look at the damage of Steak compared to Crit rush LOL....i mean its not even a contest.

this is spot on. gap closers being (snipe aside) max-range abilities is a big thing. add that swarm mother monster set, and it's only going to be worse. i don't think mines make for a fun class-defining skill

i degraded my sorc to root + negate bot that leeches ult with executes. if i solo or play in groups of 3 or less, i play another char.

Asteria2

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Introduction

The Magic Sorc has been on the receiving end of some pretty heavy handed nerfs since April of 2014. Bolt Escape itself has been nerfed over 7 times. Negate has been nerfed and partially buffed off and on (The current Negate still isn't as good as the 1.5 Negate was). Storm ATronach is probably the worst ultimate in the game because its the only ultimate that can be CC, its the only Atronach in the game that isn't CC immune, and its damage output is lackluster in PVP. While the Sorc may be OK in PVE(I got through VMA with it many times), in PVP its just simply not viable...a Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil.Of course these reason are not readily apparent, but they are facts because DK are strong to what Sorcs are weak against without shields which makes them better. Also, landing a 25k+ Heavy Fire staff attack doesn't hurt

Why is Magic Sorc in such a bad place?

The Magic Sorcs ENTIRE CLASS PREMISE is based on building up and timing "Delayed Damage". (Curse + Frags + Fury) Simply put Tag target with Curse, Tag Target with Mage's Wrath, and spam Crushing Shock till you get a Frag proc and then land that frag right around the time Curse explodes, and Fury will explode and thus kill most players....this is how Magic Sorcs as a class are designed to be played.

However, the Shield changes have rendered this simply unviable due to their 6 second nature. Anyone who says their sheilds never lasted more then 6 seconds in Cyrodiil wasn't playing the class right because i assure you 80% of the time my shields did last longer then 6 seconds because the minute i was pressured by more then 1 person I would streak to LOS, Reapply Shields, Drop Mines and back to dealing damage.

You can't do this now...Every 6 seconds you are FORCED to reapply shields or your dead....Even if you wear full Light Impen you are dead if those shields fall as Light Armor offers ZERO Armor at all due to penetration values. A Sorc's shields do not last long enough to fullfill the required burst(Curse+Fury+Frags) to kill someone reliably because Frags are based on RNG. In the time it takes you to cast 2 Crushing Shocks your shields are expired, You can't maintain consistent pressure against your opponent, and with no armor this leaves you wide open to be dead. Even if you front bar your Wards, your still losing too much pressure and can't do the delayed damage combo the class was built around.

Damage Shield duration was nerfed by 70% but no cost reduction to account for this duration was ever given this results in this change being the single largest nerf in the history of this game and has rendered the Light Armor Cast Sorc class as dead in PVP period. Sure you can still play your Magic Sorc, but your at a woeful disadvantage against any of the other classes, and against players of a similiar skill level the fight is theirs to win...they will simply wait till the count of 5 to hard CC and burst you with daw DAwnbreaker and the fact you have no armor - dead...Sorcs in their current state are nothing more then AP Pinata's and Negate machines for zergs.

What can be done to fix these issues

1. Shield Duration needs to be increased from 6 seconds to 15 seconds. - 20 seconds was a bit much, but a 15 second shield duration is no more unbalanced then an Archer hitting you for 12-15k with a Lethal Arrow. Sorcs have no reflects, DK can protect themselves from this with Wings, but Sorcs are literally helpless....The 6 second Shield duration pigeonholes Sorcs into very specific sets(Seducer, Amberplasm) because they are the only class in the game forced to recast a buff every 6 seconds or die in 1-2 hits. Even if you wear full impen, Light Armor is less protection then paper, your entire life or death revolves around a 6 second shield and bar swapping that doesn't work reliably half the time. Every Sorc now is usually dead due to the inability to swap bars to shield cast, and are unable to maintain an advantage against any compentent opponent because of the need to constantly re-sheild or face death.


2. A passive needs to be added to the Expert Mage passive that removes the Bolt Escape Fatigue if wearing 5 or more pieces of Light Armor - The way the class is designed its meant to be ranged. Gap Closers right now are way OP compared to Bolt Escape. A Sorc needs a legit 50% chance to get out of Gap Closer range, but thats simply not possible due to the stacking cost increase. Combine this with paper armor and 6 second shields and its far to easy to just ride a Sorc's back to their death. Stam Sorcs allready get Major+Minor Expedition + the Meduim Armor movement passives, they don't need Bolt Escape anywhere near as much as a Magic Sorc does....Most Stam Sorcs use streak as an offensive mans to damage people, Magic Sorcs need it to reposition and even retreat...it Stam Sorcs can outrun everyone to retreat, Magic Sorc's should have a reasonable chance to retreat. We will still be squishy and die, it will still be possible to be gap closed down, just not so easily.

3. Storm Atronach needs to have a resource draining and snare mechanic added to its single target zap If the Storm Atronach is going to be the only CC ultimate in the game, it needs to be more capable of pressure an opponent with its single target zap beam. At rank 4 the Atronach should sap 2% of your max magic and max stam per second while he has the beam on you and snare the target 40%....the Atro damage in PVP is a joke,it needs the ability to pressure your opponent for such a costly ultimate, and it needs to be CC immune like every other Storm Atronach in the game is.

Conclusion

This is just a start. Destruction Staff needs some major re-working too as all the nerfs to Destro Staff over the last year(Crushing Shock losing 10% damage, Force Shock and Elemental Ring losing their 40% chance at applying a status effect, Fire Clench losing its Stun) This will at least bring the Sorc back up to a semi-reasonable and plyable level. Right now the class simply isn't competitive...You have a few diehards still playing it, but your literally better off with any other class combo....even Stam Sorc is miles head of Magic Sorc's and Sorcs are casters by Lore....

I really hope you will take the time to revisit the Magic Sorc before One Tamriel comes out...the class needs MAJOR help in PVP.....in the worst way. Even if that means nerfing Negate.

Sorcs are in worse shape now then they were in 1.5 when they were the worst PVP spec in the game.....Help us ZOS. Us Sorcs are out of options at this point.

Sincerely

Rinaldo

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Introduction

The Magic Sorc has been on the receiving end of some pretty heavy handed nerfs since April of 2014. Bolt Escape itself has been nerfed over 7 times. Negate has been nerfed and partially buffed off and on (The current Negate still isn't as good as the 1.5 Negate was). Storm ATronach is probably the worst ultimate in the game because its the only ultimate that can be CC, its the only Atronach in the game that isn't CC immune, and its damage output is lackluster in PVP. While the Sorc may be OK in PVE(I got through VMA with it many times), in PVP its just simply not viable...a Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil.Of course these reason are not readily apparent, but they are facts because DK are strong to what Sorcs are weak against without shields which makes them better. Also, landing a 25k+ Heavy Fire staff attack doesn't hurt

Why is Magic Sorc in such a bad place?

The Magic Sorcs ENTIRE CLASS PREMISE is based on building up and timing "Delayed Damage". (Curse + Frags + Fury) Simply put Tag target with Curse, Tag Target with Mage's Wrath, and spam Crushing Shock till you get a Frag proc and then land that frag right around the time Curse explodes, and Fury will explode and thus kill most players....this is how Magic Sorcs as a class are designed to be played.

However, the Shield changes have rendered this simply unviable due to their 6 second nature. Anyone who says their sheilds never lasted more then 6 seconds in Cyrodiil wasn't playing the class right because i assure you 80% of the time my shields did last longer then 6 seconds because the minute i was pressured by more then 1 person I would streak to LOS, Reapply Shields, Drop Mines and back to dealing damage.

You can't do this now...Every 6 seconds you are FORCED to reapply shields or your dead....Even if you wear full Light Impen you are dead if those shields fall as Light Armor offers ZERO Armor at all due to penetration values. A Sorc's shields do not last long enough to fullfill the required burst(Curse+Fury+Frags) to kill someone reliably because Frags are based on RNG. In the time it takes you to cast 2 Crushing Shocks your shields are expired, You can't maintain consistent pressure against your opponent, and with no armor this leaves you wide open to be dead. Even if you front bar your Wards, your still losing too much pressure and can't do the delayed damage combo the class was built around.

Damage Shield duration was nerfed by 70% but no cost reduction to account for this duration was ever given this results in this change being the single largest nerf in the history of this game and has rendered the Light Armor Cast Sorc class as dead in PVP period. Sure you can still play your Magic Sorc, but your at a woeful disadvantage against any of the other classes, and against players of a similiar skill level the fight is theirs to win...they will simply wait till the count of 5 to hard CC and burst you with daw DAwnbreaker and the fact you have no armor - dead...Sorcs in their current state are nothing more then AP Pinata's and Negate machines for zergs.

What can be done to fix these issues

1. Shield Duration needs to be increased from 6 seconds to 15 seconds. - 20 seconds was a bit much, but a 15 second shield duration is no more unbalanced then an Archer hitting you for 12-15k with a Lethal Arrow. Sorcs have no reflects, DK can protect themselves from this with Wings, but Sorcs are literally helpless....The 6 second Shield duration pigeonholes Sorcs into very specific sets(Seducer, Amberplasm) because they are the only class in the game forced to recast a buff every 6 seconds or die in 1-2 hits. Even if you wear full impen, Light Armor is less protection then paper, your entire life or death revolves around a 6 second shield and bar swapping that doesn't work reliably half the time. Every Sorc now is usually dead due to the inability to swap bars to shield cast, and are unable to maintain an advantage against any compentent opponent because of the need to constantly re-sheild or face death.


2. A passive needs to be added to the Expert Mage passive that removes the Bolt Escape Fatigue if wearing 5 or more pieces of Light Armor - The way the class is designed its meant to be ranged. Gap Closers right now are way OP compared to Bolt Escape. A Sorc needs a legit 50% chance to get out of Gap Closer range, but thats simply not possible due to the stacking cost increase. Combine this with paper armor and 6 second shields and its far to easy to just ride a Sorc's back to their death. Stam Sorcs allready get Major+Minor Expedition + the Meduim Armor movement passives, they don't need Bolt Escape anywhere near as much as a Magic Sorc does....Most Stam Sorcs use streak as an offensive mans to damage people, Magic Sorcs need it to reposition and even retreat...it Stam Sorcs can outrun everyone to retreat, Magic Sorc's should have a reasonable chance to retreat. We will still be squishy and die, it will still be possible to be gap closed down, just not so easily.

3. Storm Atronach needs to have a resource draining and snare mechanic added to its single target zap If the Storm Atronach is going to be the only CC ultimate in the game, it needs to be more capable of pressure an opponent with its single target zap beam. At rank 4 the Atronach should sap 2% of your max magic and max stam per second while he has the beam on you and snare the target 40%....the Atro damage in PVP is a joke,it needs the ability to pressure your opponent for such a costly ultimate, and it needs to be CC immune like every other Storm Atronach in the game is.

Conclusion

This is just a start. Destruction Staff needs some major re-working too as all the nerfs to Destro Staff over the last year(Crushing Shock losing 10% damage, Force Shock and Elemental Ring losing their 40% chance at applying a status effect, Fire Clench losing its Stun) This will at least bring the Sorc back up to a semi-reasonable and plyable level. Right now the class simply isn't competitive...You have a few diehards still playing it, but your literally better off with any other class combo....even Stam Sorc is miles head of Magic Sorc's and Sorcs are casters by Lore....

I really hope you will take the time to revisit the Magic Sorc before One Tamriel comes out...the class needs MAJOR help in PVP.....in the worst way. Even if that means nerfing Negate.

Sorcs are in worse shape now then they were in 1.5 when they were the worst PVP spec in the game.....Help us ZOS. Us Sorcs are out of options at this point.

Sincerely

Rinaldo

Sorry to quote everything here, but I pretty much agree with it all. I am a sorc player who stopped playing for a few months right after 1.7 launched. Coming back to the game I was disappointed in my sorc and the new changes. Don't get me wrong, I think there were some balancing issues when I left. I.e. Light armor shouldn't be as tanky as heavy and streak should probably not be a troll run away mechanic. That being said, the shield issue and sustain are pretty rough atm. I consider my self a fairly talented Sorc pvp-er (probably a bit biased), but even in a group I feel like my class/ spec, a mana sorc, has a hard time competing. The op is correct when he says we are like paper. And that would be ok with me if shields last a little longer than 6 seconds. By the time you use 2 shields the first is already half gone (maybe that was the point idk). I spend most of my time defending rather than getting to attack. I find my self relying on streak (which I mostly used as an offensive skill) to add distance to reapply hardened ward and being punished for it. It is hard to even play as a glass cannon where i can do a lot of burst in a few seconds because as the op stated our highest burst is something of a waiting game, I.e. Curse+ mages fury+ frag proc. Having to reapply shields because some stam skills can take half your health in one hit reduces the effectiveness. I find now I am forced to play very conservatively. Whereas before, as anyone who has ever fought me can attest, I was a fairly aggressive Sorc. It makes the game play hard to enjoy being forced to play in this manner.

As far as the people who say oh just play in heavy armor, well that is a a way to play and I am currently doing that, but it isn't as good/fun/effective as light armor. The sustain is rough and the dmg is pretty bad. Please don't confuse being able to kill a few newbies as good dmg. And when up against a high dodge/mischance stam build without the dps, heavy armor really doesn't do much for you other than you get to live for 20 sec vs 10 sec until you run out of mana because your sustain is also pretty weak.

I have never been one to complain about the sorc nerfs too much. Sorc has been nerfed a lot from the start of the game, so I usually roll with the punches. However, the 6 second shield nerf is fairly disheartening. I don't enjoy my sorc anymore. The great thing about ESO is that you're supposed to be able to play like you want (isn't that what they advertised), but now it is fairly ineffective to play as a mana sorc in Pvp. Make shields 15 second or 12. Heck even 10 seconds would be ok, but 6 secs is too short.

Maybe this is asking to much. Maybe in the name of balance we shouldn't have all we want, but frankly it feels like other classes and specs (i.e. Stam) are having their cake and eating it too. For a class that has traditionally been a mana and high dps class, it sure feels like mana just doesn't senergize well the class anymore.

I guess until then I will just keep offering up my negate (one point I don't agree with op on. Negate is much improved from 1.6) for group play and rolling around in my dk for solo.

All this being said the one shining light I see as a mana sorc is the new destro ult. But don't worry fellow pvp-ers you will only get to enjoy that bit of op for maybe a month before the nerf.

~ Saru Gray

illuminousflux

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

A Light Armor Sorc's biggest struggle is dealing with folks who gap close and spam powerful single target stam abilities in your face(like Suprise Attack, Dizzying Swing, Rapid Strikes, Biting Jabs, Dawnbreaker, and Incap Strike)

At this point you have no choice but to Camp Daedric Mines and stack shields and "hope" you get an opening to turn the fight offensive. Since most of Sorc's damage is delayed, this puts them at a disadvantage against the instant spammable nature of such abilities. Your literlaly forced to weather the storm and hope your enemy makes a mistake, Combo a Dawnbreaker with a Mine explosion and Fury or Drop an Atronach to get them off you as your shields won't hold forever. Its very one sided and not in your favor.

Don't get me wrong, Magic Sorc does very well with ranged damage...thats never been the issue. The issue is ranged combat is almost impossible in this game now because gap closers not only do OP type of damage, but they have way too far of a range...it makes ranged combat impossible...it forces every encounter to be melee which puts the light armor Sorc at a district disadvantage as the class isn;t designed to fight in melee, and the nerfs to Streak and the buffs to gap closers with the unpurgable snare and such make it impossible to create distance once they close with you...This is probably the biggest problem Magic Sorcs have....

If the Sorc's skill to create distance is going to be harshly penalized, then the use of Gap closers needs to be penalized in the same manner...if someone spam gap closers on a Sorc and the Sorc is out of resources, the Gap closer should also be out of resources...if Streak is going to be stuck with such an absurd stacking cost increase, Gap closers should have the same stacking cost increase. Both of these skills port your character, and gap closers actually have a much farther port range. Its far too lopsided...look at the damage of Steak compared to Crit rush LOL....i mean its not even a contest.

I completely agree, gap closers really could use a nerf. Critical Rush deals significantly more damage than streak, and what, up to 68% based on distance traveled? There cost is roughly the same (until you cast streak a second time of course). In those regards they seem imbalanced. On the other hand, streak is also an AoE stun and is really designed to bee used more offensively. However, we don't have a lot of decent sorc skills to pair with it. Destro staff is fairly underwhelming, I mean sure we can knock people off walls with Destructive Reach but that's about it, Force Pulse is an okay skill, it's not great but you can land some kills against people who aren't paying attention. Personally, I wish sorcs had more melee ranged skills for dealing damage. DK's have whip, maybe sorcs could get a lighting sword or something. In fact let's just get rid of Daedric Summoning tree and add a tree with abilities that deal direct damage with Lightning and Physical damage morphs, so stam sorcs can get some love too. I'd also love it if ZoS added some type of melee ranged magicka based weapon that could be duel wielded .

Paraflex

The class is pretty solid right now there was a reason they nerfed bolt escape and shields as people abused those abilities in older patches. Iv seen very solid sorcs 1vX and play in groups to be honest it sounds like your not a solid player with the class. Sorcs are still very strong and serve a good purpose I'm sorry it's not OP like it used to be learn to play.

You could just give in an make a Stam sorc with viper/tremer/widowmaker because it sounds like you want easy mode back again...

shugg

Since we carnt get smart AI pets , i would like to see pets always focus on the cursed target and also make pets a 3 min summon so we get 2 slots back. And finally make pets scale off stats especially in pvp

Minalan

Paraflex wrote: »

The class is pretty solid right now there was a reason they nerfed bolt escape and shields as people abused those abilities in older patches. Iv seen very solid sorcs 1vX and play in groups to be honest it sounds like your not a solid player with the class. Sorcs are still very strong and serve a good purpose I'm sorry it's not OP like it used to be learn to play.

You could just give in an make a Stam sorc with viper/tremer/widowmaker because it sounds like you want easy mode back again...

I don't think we're asking for huge game changing buffs, but a few quality of life improvements that would go a long way. Streak. A few light armor and destro staff changes. Lower magicka costs in line with stamina. A buffed passive or two.

You just sort of admitted yourself that stam proc Sorc is 'easy mode'. I just wish they would sand off some of the rougher edges of Sorc gameplay.

Lava_Croft

MagSorcs are probably the most effective Magicka class for killing stuff. Maybe most of them just suffer from the StamBlade syndrome that causes them to not really know how to play their class/build.

FriedEggSandwich

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MagSorcs are probably the most effective Magicka class for killing stuff. Maybe most of them just suffer from the StamBlade syndrome that causes them to not really know how to play their class/build.

Nothing wrong with sorc damage, I think we got hit too hard in the sustain dept. though. Something as simple as streak fatigue resetting if you damage with it might be enough to make a difference. Also light armour is pretty underwhelming in general these days.

SanTii.92

Minalan wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

The class is pretty solid right now there was a reason they nerfed bolt escape and shields as people abused those abilities in older patches. Iv seen very solid sorcs 1vX and play in groups to be honest it sounds like your not a solid player with the class. Sorcs are still very strong and serve a good purpose I'm sorry it's not OP like it used to be learn to play.

You could just give in an make a Stam sorc with viper/tremer/widowmaker because it sounds like you want easy mode back again...

I don't think we're asking for huge game changing buffs, but a few quality of life improvements that would go a long way. Streak. A few light armor and destro staff changes. Lower magicka costs in line with stamina. A buffed passive or two.

You just sort of admitted yourself that stam proc Sorc is 'easy mode'. I just wish they would sand off some of the rougher edges of Sorc gameplay.

Agreed Minalan. Let us not lose forward momentum with Streak. Would do so much

Minalan

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MagSorcs are probably the most effective Magicka class for killing stuff. Maybe most of them just suffer from the StamBlade syndrome that causes them to not really know how to play their class/build.

Magicka Templar laughs at magsorc.

Damage could use a small boost. Light armor needs to add some 'cannon' to the glass. If I'm going to die in one or two hits, I should be a priority target because of the damage potential at least.

Stam HA builds can pull the same damage in a fight without the drawback.

Ashamray

Make ball lightning morph a decent defensive ability to combine with shields but do not make shields stronger.

Lava_Croft

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MagSorcs are probably the most effective Magicka class for killing stuff. Maybe most of them just suffer from the StamBlade syndrome that causes them to not really know how to play their class/build.

Nothing wrong with sorc damage, I think we got hit too hard in the sustain dept. though. Something as simple as streak fatigue resetting if you damage with it might be enough to make a difference. Also light armour is pretty underwhelming in general these days.

Streak is a tough cookie, I still don't know what one could do with it. LA is just trash at the moment, but nobody is more compatible with it than a MagSorc. It's near suicide on every other class. That's my point, out of all the builds using Magicka and Light Armor, Sorcerer are the best by such a large margin that any complaints just look out of place.

Minalan wrote: »

Magicka Templar laughs at magsorc.

MagPlars in Light Armor can spam a lot of BoL before they die without killing anything. Emphasis on spamming BoL and without killing anything.