Magic Sorcs need some MAJOR help and it can't wait until the next update

Dracane

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Uhm no. Please, exaggerating is good and such.
But 100k is really too exaggerated. Most Sorcs I see, have 23k if they stack 2 shields.

And that's it, shieldstacking is the only way to survive. Try playing with 1 shield and you will not tank anyone.
It's easy to tank low damage opponents with shields. But when under attack by average or higher dps, shields become the worst survival tool. Because you just can't get rid of the pressure.

Sorcs are 3rd worst when it comes to burst. All stamina builds and magicka nightblades outperform them by far when it comes to this. Only magicka templar is worse with burst, followed by Dk.
Even though Magicka templar could have access to awesome burst, it's just too stupid to use in my opinion.

Oh please that is a single stack. When I say shields of 100Ks I mean how many stacks a sorc can easily refresh without breaking a sweat. I think 5 refreshes is on the conservative side given how much magicka can stacked not to mention cost reduction/magicka regen. So yea easily in the 100K range. I've seen plenty do double that number and still have magicka for multiple repeated streaks even with the new 50% penalty. So yea they can get away when pressured.

3rd in burst...LOL ....pull that one out of your arse did ya? I don't know where you get that information from but there are plenty of recent videos (Sypher etc.) showing how to setup excellent burst and this is without overload,which I wont even get into.

It is true though that magicka sorcs are no longer a faceroll the keyboard and win over the top OP class like they used to be, however, either you are not doing it right or you are being dishonest about the true state of magicka sorcs.

Because it's true. How about you play the class instead of watching your favorite streamers ? That's where pugs get their builds and ideas from.

The problem with Sorc burst, is that it is the most predictable of all. You see the curse and know when it explodes, you also see the fragments proc. So you can easily do something to evade the "burst" and even if it hits: The times when curse and frag were enough to bring someone in execution range are long gone. Luckily, curse being unblockable now makes our burst a bit harder to mitigate. But it still won't change our position.

Look at nightblade on the other hand: Soul harvest and assassin's will not only hit harder each, but are also as good as impossible to predict. You can barely react to it.
And I don't need to talk about stam and their burst combos.

I don't have to play them to know as I fight them on a regular basis. I know very well what their capabilities are and they can be summarized as follows:

1) Hands down best mobility with streak
2) Best mitigation in the game with shield stacking that also allows them to go offensive
3) Some of the best timed burst in the game
4) Hard hitting class ultimate (one of the best)
4) OK healing with Surge ( a passive free heal just for critting - LOL)

There is nothing in this game that you want in your character that the Sorc cannot provide and it is in fact the most well rounded and versatile class in the game.

Oh and trust me if ZoS were foolish enough to listen people like you and restore them to being over the top OP status then you will see me on one. I never played a Sorc because it is not my play-style and was obvious easy mode.

Shields Up >>Pew Pew>> Get in trouble then just Streak Streak away.

It used to be quite easy. But this was long ago.
Sorcs are the most overnerfed class. No other class received so many direct hits without any compensation.

Streak is so expensive, that everyone can catch a streaking Sorc. Because they can't get far with it and then they are free AP, as their magicka is drained for nothing.

Sorc shields require full attention. You have to recast them every second while under attack, you have no space to go offensive. Stamina on the other hand can simply pop Vigor, a dodge roll here and there. Giving them a huge time frame to attack without the need to recast anything. Which is also very good for ressource management.

Power Surge is poor. Only crit surge is somewhat good

A hard hitting ult, that announces itself with a giant loud explosion and shoots giant glowing orbs at you. All it takes is to dodge, reflect, shuffle or whatever. And then you can go for the offense yourself.

Maybe you are just not as good as you think honey.

Power Surge is amazing. Not a main heal anymore, but in places like vMA/vDSA I'm always at full health. You don't even need shields in PvE anymore because of how good this ability is.

You don't streak to run away, you streak to buy time or to stun/meteor.

If you time your Overload with Frags, its insta kill. I have a clip of me getting ganked by a NB, he comes are me with a Ambush and Incap. I CC break watch him roll dodge, go into overload apply defensive rune empower my frag and shoot it out at the same time as an Overload light. 23k Instant damage. Hard to pull of, but worth trying.

Shields are a magicka drain. Look at NBs they only play with Healing Ward and they are perfectly fine. Yeah they have cloak, but we have crit immunity. As a sorc if you let your shields go down for a second (even way before DB) you were good as dead. Why? 20k health, no resists at all, no crit resists at all. Now I run my sorc with 25k health and 30% crit mitigation. I'm even thinking of rolling a heavy armor sorc with the Lich+Kagrenac's Hope+Engine Guardian when One Tamriel hits live on consoles. I already can't get one shot simply cause I have too much health under the shields. You don't have to keep your shields up 100% of the time, nor do you have to refresh them every second. You pop a shield and you start placing your burst and waiting for that little mistake. Sorcs are hard to play, but when you know how to do it, its very very lethal.

Stamplars are hard to kill because of their healing buffs and the snare from Jabs. Magplars are much much easier (Overload+Frags just one shots them) and radiant isn't a problem because shields. Stam sorcs are hard to out survive so you have to catch them Dark Dealing with that Frag, Hurricane eats your shield constantly so those are very important to take out quickly.

-Sorc has no crit immunity. This "immunity" only comes from shields, and this applies to all damage shields.

-Power Surge is not amazing. Maybe in your pve nutshell. But certainly not in pvp

-Sorc does not naturally have more health than Nightblade. It's only a matter of your gear then

-And whaaat ? Which Templar nowadays dies from a frag and overload ? They all wear heavy armor and usually around 30k health. It's not even possible to 2 shot them. Especially not, when they aware of what you are doing.

The-Baconator

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Uhm no. Please, exaggerating is good and such.
But 100k is really too exaggerated. Most Sorcs I see, have 23k if they stack 2 shields.

And that's it, shieldstacking is the only way to survive. Try playing with 1 shield and you will not tank anyone.
It's easy to tank low damage opponents with shields. But when under attack by average or higher dps, shields become the worst survival tool. Because you just can't get rid of the pressure.

Sorcs are 3rd worst when it comes to burst. All stamina builds and magicka nightblades outperform them by far when it comes to this. Only magicka templar is worse with burst, followed by Dk.
Even though Magicka templar could have access to awesome burst, it's just too stupid to use in my opinion.

Oh please that is a single stack. When I say shields of 100Ks I mean how many stacks a sorc can easily refresh without breaking a sweat. I think 5 refreshes is on the conservative side given how much magicka can stacked not to mention cost reduction/magicka regen. So yea easily in the 100K range. I've seen plenty do double that number and still have magicka for multiple repeated streaks even with the new 50% penalty. So yea they can get away when pressured.

3rd in burst...LOL ....pull that one out of your arse did ya? I don't know where you get that information from but there are plenty of recent videos (Sypher etc.) showing how to setup excellent burst and this is without overload,which I wont even get into.

It is true though that magicka sorcs are no longer a faceroll the keyboard and win over the top OP class like they used to be, however, either you are not doing it right or you are being dishonest about the true state of magicka sorcs.

Because it's true. How about you play the class instead of watching your favorite streamers ? That's where pugs get their builds and ideas from.

The problem with Sorc burst, is that it is the most predictable of all. You see the curse and know when it explodes, you also see the fragments proc. So you can easily do something to evade the "burst" and even if it hits: The times when curse and frag were enough to bring someone in execution range are long gone. Luckily, curse being unblockable now makes our burst a bit harder to mitigate. But it still won't change our position.

Look at nightblade on the other hand: Soul harvest and assassin's will not only hit harder each, but are also as good as impossible to predict. You can barely react to it.
And I don't need to talk about stam and their burst combos.

I don't have to play them to know as I fight them on a regular basis. I know very well what their capabilities are and they can be summarized as follows:

1) Hands down best mobility with streak
2) Best mitigation in the game with shield stacking that also allows them to go offensive
3) Some of the best timed burst in the game
4) Hard hitting class ultimate (one of the best)
4) OK healing with Surge ( a passive free heal just for critting - LOL)

There is nothing in this game that you want in your character that the Sorc cannot provide and it is in fact the most well rounded and versatile class in the game.

Oh and trust me if ZoS were foolish enough to listen people like you and restore them to being over the top OP status then you will see me on one. I never played a Sorc because it is not my play-style and was obvious easy mode.

Shields Up >>Pew Pew>> Get in trouble then just Streak Streak away.

It used to be quite easy. But this was long ago.
Sorcs are the most overnerfed class. No other class received so many direct hits without any compensation.

Streak is so expensive, that everyone can catch a streaking Sorc. Because they can't get far with it and then they are free AP, as their magicka is drained for nothing.

Sorc shields require full attention. You have to recast them every second while under attack, you have no space to go offensive. Stamina on the other hand can simply pop Vigor, a dodge roll here and there. Giving them a huge time frame to attack without the need to recast anything. Which is also very good for ressource management.

Power Surge is poor. Only crit surge is somewhat good

A hard hitting ult, that announces itself with a giant loud explosion and shoots giant glowing orbs at you. All it takes is to dodge, reflect, shuffle or whatever. And then you can go for the offense yourself.

Maybe you are just not as good as you think honey.

Power Surge is amazing. Not a main heal anymore, but in places like vMA/vDSA I'm always at full health. You don't even need shields in PvE anymore because of how good this ability is.

You don't streak to run away, you streak to buy time or to stun/meteor.

If you time your Overload with Frags, its insta kill. I have a clip of me getting ganked by a NB, he comes are me with a Ambush and Incap. I CC break watch him roll dodge, go into overload apply defensive rune empower my frag and shoot it out at the same time as an Overload light. 23k Instant damage. Hard to pull of, but worth trying.

Shields are a magicka drain. Look at NBs they only play with Healing Ward and they are perfectly fine. Yeah they have cloak, but we have crit immunity. As a sorc if you let your shields go down for a second (even way before DB) you were good as dead. Why? 20k health, no resists at all, no crit resists at all. Now I run my sorc with 25k health and 30% crit mitigation. I'm even thinking of rolling a heavy armor sorc with the Lich+Kagrenac's Hope+Engine Guardian when One Tamriel hits live on consoles. I already can't get one shot simply cause I have too much health under the shields. You don't have to keep your shields up 100% of the time, nor do you have to refresh them every second. You pop a shield and you start placing your burst and waiting for that little mistake. Sorcs are hard to play, but when you know how to do it, its very very lethal.

Stamplars are hard to kill because of their healing buffs and the snare from Jabs. Magplars are much much easier (Overload+Frags just one shots them) and radiant isn't a problem because shields. Stam sorcs are hard to out survive so you have to catch them Dark Dealing with that Frag, Hurricane eats your shield constantly so those are very important to take out quickly.

I agree sorcs are hardly bad but you're really overselling how easy it is to kill certain specs.

On Streak: Yes you use it to land your burst combo in a 1v1 but playing open world sometimes necessitates kitting when 30 ppl run at you with 1-2 friends with no LoS to be found. Streak will not get you away from any pug zerg unless they literally have no interest in chasing you for more than 5 seconds (99% have no problem with this).

Timed Overload\Frags: Maybe on a dual wield sorc build against a bad\every once in a while against a decent player that falls asleep. A good stam build will NEVER let you hit them with two projectiles like that at once unless your Xv1ing someone in which case you can spam just about anything to good effect.

Shield Magic Drain: Of course it effects magicka nbs as well, but when in the last 9 months has magic blade been popular\good at anything besides bombing\ice staff troll build? Both sorc and magblade are heavily underplayed among the solo\none bombing playerbase atm.

Squishyness: I run 7 impen on my sorc with 23k health and 20ish points in crit resist when solo. Against any high damage stam character I'm insta dead if my shields are down if they ult (with a dawnbreaker\incap). I regularly see +14k incaps from cp capped players on my recap.

And have you ever fought a decent magicka templar? One that doesn't run a 21k health light armor build? Good luck bursting someone with 28k-30k health with capped spell and crit resist when they have a spammable purge and can blockcast for extended periods of time. Arguably it gets even worse for a stamplar as well, what ever spammable dps you have is mitigated for 5 seconds with a heal that crits for +4k while they have rally ticking in the background.

Derra

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Dreyloch

Not going thru all of this thread, but I will put in my exp. as a Mag sorc in PvP.

First off, I play in groups, I don't solo or zerg surf like i used to be able to. I wear 5 heavy and 2 light. 4 pieces of the heavy is Elf Bane. (the 5th trait is useless). I won't give away all my secrets, but I can tell you those 6 sec shields are not needed. I can also tell you that before Negate was re-established as the norm, that I was using the Atro. It was situational, but oh, how it worked wonders! Got a side opening with tons of zerglings and a ballista across the way? Streak in, and across that back flag and drop on atro on the guy's head. Used that tactic many times to get a good push started into keeps and outposts.

My regen is fine, my damage isn't nearly what a light armor sorc's is, but I have a purpose. Streak in, root, negate, streak out. Turn around and spam some fury? Job done. I'm not going to win a shoot out 1v1. But I can survive it in most cases. It's all in the skills, CP, and gear you use. I'll agree being a glass cannon super nuker is fun, but it's just not practical these days. That's why I'm more support and CC's, with a touch of damage.

Dracane

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Imagination grows strong in them, when they try to make Sorcs look like they are super good or so.
But every single argument is either exaggeration, wrong or a lie.

Darnathian

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Introduction

The Magic Sorc has been on the receiving end of some pretty heavy handed nerfs since April of 2014. Bolt Escape itself has been nerfed over 7 times. Negate has been nerfed and partially buffed off and on (The current Negate still isn't as good as the 1.5 Negate was). Storm ATronach is probably the worst ultimate in the game because its the only ultimate that can be CC, its the only Atronach in the game that isn't CC immune, and its damage output is lackluster in PVP. While the Sorc may be OK in PVE(I got through VMA with it many times), in PVP its just simply not viable...a Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil.Of course these reason are not readily apparent, but they are facts because DK are strong to what Sorcs are weak against without shields which makes them better. Also, landing a 25k+ Heavy Fire staff attack doesn't hurt

Why is Magic Sorc in such a bad place?

The Magic Sorcs ENTIRE CLASS PREMISE is based on building up and timing "Delayed Damage". (Curse + Frags + Fury) Simply put Tag target with Curse, Tag Target with Mage's Wrath, and spam Crushing Shock till you get a Frag proc and then land that frag right around the time Curse explodes, and Fury will explode and thus kill most players....this is how Magic Sorcs as a class are designed to be played.

However, the Shield changes have rendered this simply unviable due to their 6 second nature. Anyone who says their sheilds never lasted more then 6 seconds in Cyrodiil wasn't playing the class right because i assure you 80% of the time my shields did last longer then 6 seconds because the minute i was pressured by more then 1 person I would streak to LOS, Reapply Shields, Drop Mines and back to dealing damage.

You can't do this now...Every 6 seconds you are FORCED to reapply shields or your dead....Even if you wear full Light Impen you are dead if those shields fall as Light Armor offers ZERO Armor at all due to penetration values. A Sorc's shields do not last long enough to fullfill the required burst(Curse+Fury+Frags) to kill someone reliably because Frags are based on RNG. In the time it takes you to cast 2 Crushing Shocks your shields are expired, You can't maintain consistent pressure against your opponent, and with no armor this leaves you wide open to be dead. Even if you front bar your Wards, your still losing too much pressure and can't do the delayed damage combo the class was built around.

Damage Shield duration was nerfed by 70% but no cost reduction to account for this duration was ever given this results in this change being the single largest nerf in the history of this game and has rendered the Light Armor Cast Sorc class as dead in PVP period. Sure you can still play your Magic Sorc, but your at a woeful disadvantage against any of the other classes, and against players of a similiar skill level the fight is theirs to win...they will simply wait till the count of 5 to hard CC and burst you with daw DAwnbreaker and the fact you have no armor - dead...Sorcs in their current state are nothing more then AP Pinata's and Negate machines for zergs.

What can be done to fix these issues

1. Shield Duration needs to be increased from 6 seconds to 15 seconds. - 20 seconds was a bit much, but a 15 second shield duration is no more unbalanced then an Archer hitting you for 12-15k with a Lethal Arrow. Sorcs have no reflects, DK can protect themselves from this with Wings, but Sorcs are literally helpless....The 6 second Shield duration pigeonholes Sorcs into very specific sets(Seducer, Amberplasm) because they are the only class in the game forced to recast a buff every 6 seconds or die in 1-2 hits. Even if you wear full impen, Light Armor is less protection then paper, your entire life or death revolves around a 6 second shield and bar swapping that doesn't work reliably half the time. Every Sorc now is usually dead due to the inability to swap bars to shield cast, and are unable to maintain an advantage against any compentent opponent because of the need to constantly re-sheild or face death.


2. A passive needs to be added to the Expert Mage passive that removes the Bolt Escape Fatigue if wearing 5 or more pieces of Light Armor - The way the class is designed its meant to be ranged. Gap Closers right now are way OP compared to Bolt Escape. A Sorc needs a legit 50% chance to get out of Gap Closer range, but thats simply not possible due to the stacking cost increase. Combine this with paper armor and 6 second shields and its far to easy to just ride a Sorc's back to their death. Stam Sorcs allready get Major+Minor Expedition + the Meduim Armor movement passives, they don't need Bolt Escape anywhere near as much as a Magic Sorc does....Most Stam Sorcs use streak as an offensive mans to damage people, Magic Sorcs need it to reposition and even retreat...it Stam Sorcs can outrun everyone to retreat, Magic Sorc's should have a reasonable chance to retreat. We will still be squishy and die, it will still be possible to be gap closed down, just not so easily.

3. Storm Atronach needs to have a resource draining and snare mechanic added to its single target zap If the Storm Atronach is going to be the only CC ultimate in the game, it needs to be more capable of pressure an opponent with its single target zap beam. At rank 4 the Atronach should sap 2% of your max magic and max stam per second while he has the beam on you and snare the target 40%....the Atro damage in PVP is a joke,it needs the ability to pressure your opponent for such a costly ultimate, and it needs to be CC immune like every other Storm Atronach in the game is.

Conclusion

This is just a start. Destruction Staff needs some major re-working too as all the nerfs to Destro Staff over the last year(Crushing Shock losing 10% damage, Force Shock and Elemental Ring losing their 40% chance at applying a status effect, Fire Clench losing its Stun) This will at least bring the Sorc back up to a semi-reasonable and plyable level. Right now the class simply isn't competitive...You have a few diehards still playing it, but your literally better off with any other class combo....even Stam Sorc is miles head of Magic Sorc's and Sorcs are casters by Lore....

I really hope you will take the time to revisit the Magic Sorc before One Tamriel comes out...the class needs MAJOR help in PVP.....in the worst way. Even if that means nerfing Negate.

Sorcs are in worse shape now then they were in 1.5 when they were the worst PVP spec in the game.....Help us ZOS. Us Sorcs are out of options at this point.

Sincerely

Rinaldo

You cant be serious. YOU LITERALLY JUST STATED YOU CANT BE BOTHERED TO DEFEND YOURSELF EVERY 6 SECONDS.

Thank u. Just made my day. lol

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

Dracane wrote: »

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Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Imagination grows strong in them, when they try to make Sorcs look like they are super good or so.
But every single argument is either exaggeration, wrong or a lie.

You know that I play sorc. You know that I'm very well aware that they aren't in a good place. I just stated my opinion on your comment about power surge etc. Yeah sure there aren't many NBs out there but then again there just aren't many mage specs at all. See how Templars play? Heavy armor and all? Try that out on a sorc. More damage (less penetration), more tankiness, same sustain (more or less), same max magicka, except that you also have a class shield that takes up half of you health bar and you have way more health too. Templars adapted but most sorcs just want to keep playing in full divines it seems. I'm not saying that all sorcs must run heavy armor, but if you look at a class that performs pretty well on a mage spec (templar) you could come up with new ways to play. We can't plays sorcs like we did before, so we must find other ways. For me thats heavy armor and overload.

I agree that shields must be changed, I agree that we need better skills, i agree that destro sucks. We don't know how long its gonna last, so we have to play the way we can.

Power Surge is amazing though. What's with the PvE nutshell thing? PvE is part of the game and we talking about class balance here so not only PvP.

Joy_Division

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Uhm no. Please, exaggerating is good and such.
But 100k is really too exaggerated. Most Sorcs I see, have 23k if they stack 2 shields.

And that's it, shieldstacking is the only way to survive. Try playing with 1 shield and you will not tank anyone.
It's easy to tank low damage opponents with shields. But when under attack by average or higher dps, shields become the worst survival tool. Because you just can't get rid of the pressure.

Sorcs are 3rd worst when it comes to burst. All stamina builds and magicka nightblades outperform them by far when it comes to this. Only magicka templar is worse with burst, followed by Dk.
Even though Magicka templar could have access to awesome burst, it's just too stupid to use in my opinion.

Oh please that is a single stack. When I say shields of 100Ks I mean how many stacks a sorc can easily refresh without breaking a sweat. I think 5 refreshes is on the conservative side given how much magicka can stacked not to mention cost reduction/magicka regen. So yea easily in the 100K range. I've seen plenty do double that number and still have magicka for multiple repeated streaks even with the new 50% penalty. So yea they can get away when pressured.

3rd in burst...LOL ....pull that one out of your arse did ya? I don't know where you get that information from but there are plenty of recent videos (Sypher etc.) showing how to setup excellent burst and this is without overload,which I wont even get into.

It is true though that magicka sorcs are no longer a faceroll the keyboard and win over the top OP class like they used to be, however, either you are not doing it right or you are being dishonest about the true state of magicka sorcs.

Because it's true. How about you play the class instead of watching your favorite streamers ? That's where pugs get their builds and ideas from.

The problem with Sorc burst, is that it is the most predictable of all. You see the curse and know when it explodes, you also see the fragments proc. So you can easily do something to evade the "burst" and even if it hits: The times when curse and frag were enough to bring someone in execution range are long gone. Luckily, curse being unblockable now makes our burst a bit harder to mitigate. But it still won't change our position.

Look at nightblade on the other hand: Soul harvest and assassin's will not only hit harder each, but are also as good as impossible to predict. You can barely react to it.
And I don't need to talk about stam and their burst combos.

I don't have to play them to know as I fight them on a regular basis. I know very well what their capabilities are and they can be summarized as follows:

1) Hands down best mobility with streak
2) Best mitigation in the game with shield stacking that also allows them to go offensive
3) Some of the best timed burst in the game
4) Hard hitting class ultimate (one of the best)
4) OK healing with Surge ( a passive free heal just for critting - LOL)

There is nothing in this game that you want in your character that the Sorc cannot provide and it is in fact the most well rounded and versatile class in the game.

Oh and trust me if ZoS were foolish enough to listen people like you and restore them to being over the top OP status then you will see me on one. I never played a Sorc because it is not my play-style and was obvious easy mode.

Shields Up >>Pew Pew>> Get in trouble then just Streak Streak away.

It used to be quite easy. But this was long ago.
Sorcs are the most overnerfed class. No other class received so many direct hits without any compensation.

Streak is so expensive, that everyone can catch a streaking Sorc. Because they can't get far with it and then they are free AP, as their magicka is drained for nothing.

Sorc shields require full attention. You have to recast them every second while under attack, you have no space to go offensive. Stamina on the other hand can simply pop Vigor, a dodge roll here and there. Giving them a huge time frame to attack without the need to recast anything. Which is also very good for ressource management.

Power Surge is poor. Only crit surge is somewhat good

A hard hitting ult, that announces itself with a giant loud explosion and shoots giant glowing orbs at you. All it takes is to dodge, reflect, shuffle or whatever. And then you can go for the offense yourself.

Maybe you are just not as good as you think honey.

Power Surge is amazing. Not a main heal anymore, but in places like vMA/vDSA I'm always at full health. You don't even need shields in PvE anymore because of how good this ability is.

You don't streak to run away, you streak to buy time or to stun/meteor.

If you time your Overload with Frags, its insta kill. I have a clip of me getting ganked by a NB, he comes are me with a Ambush and Incap. I CC break watch him roll dodge, go into overload apply defensive rune empower my frag and shoot it out at the same time as an Overload light. 23k Instant damage. Hard to pull of, but worth trying.

Shields are a magicka drain. Look at NBs they only play with Healing Ward and they are perfectly fine. Yeah they have cloak, but we have crit immunity. As a sorc if you let your shields go down for a second (even way before DB) you were good as dead. Why? 20k health, no resists at all, no crit resists at all. Now I run my sorc with 25k health and 30% crit mitigation. I'm even thinking of rolling a heavy armor sorc with the Lich+Kagrenac's Hope+Engine Guardian when One Tamriel hits live on consoles. I already can't get one shot simply cause I have too much health under the shields. You don't have to keep your shields up 100% of the time, nor do you have to refresh them every second. You pop a shield and you start placing your burst and waiting for that little mistake. Sorcs are hard to play, but when you know how to do it, its very very lethal.

Stamplars are hard to kill because of their healing buffs and the snare from Jabs. Magplars are much much easier (Overload+Frags just one shots them) and radiant isn't a problem because shields. Stam sorcs are hard to out survive so you have to catch them Dark Dealing with that Frag, Hurricane eats your shield constantly so those are very important to take out quickly.

• Power surge is not amazing for a magicka sorc in PvP.
• If a 21K full health target isn't blocking or dodging, I can also two-shot them (as long as I don't play a DK). That's not sorc specific.
• You only get crit immunity with that 'magicka drain'. NB can get away with just healing ward because funnel heals them and cloak can actually get them out of trouble unlike streak.
• You are NOT one-shotting any halfway decent mageplar. Hell, I'm not even sure a sorc could kill the tankier ones.

I am one of those who don't think mage sorc is a competitive spec. This doesn't mean I think they are useless or can't zerg-surf and rack up a bunch of AP spamming mage's fury and dropping negates. Rather, stam sorc works so much better and more efficiently that trying to go magicka is going to be more frustrating for fun. That's fine, I guess, for diehards and the very experienced like force siphon and QAM since they are great players, but just speaking for my perspective, I have a full time job and have too little time to use it trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] You are NOT one-shotting any halfway decent mageplar. Hell, I'm not even sure a sorc could kill the tankier ones.
[/list]

They can´t kill a competent magplar. You´re right on that - it´s not like a magplar will kill a sorc either though.

I do think sorc is somewhat competetive. Atleast as competetive as light armor builds can get atm - which probably means not really. Everything but heavy armor magDK with the right sets and magplar heavy pales in comparison to what stamina has to offer atm.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

Edit: Might be a slight exaggeration - we all come across these potatoes from time to time that should never have stepped a foot in cyrodiil in the first place.
I´ve not whitnessed what you´re describing by players that actually came to cyrodiil to pvp and have basic knowledge of game mechanics.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] You are NOT one-shotting any halfway decent mageplar. Hell, I'm not even sure a sorc could kill the tankier ones.
[/list]

They can´t kill a competent magplar. You´re right on that - it´s not like a magplar will kill a sorc either though.

That matchup has always been a snoozefest because both can negate the other's strengths so easily.

Speaking from a templar perspective, the biggest difference I find since the shield change is that I can now kill sorcs that make an error. Sorcs have such a slim margin for error in PvP since TG that I think the OP is correct in that their other mechanics, particularly streak, need to be re-evaluated.

The curse change is a welcome step in the right direction. That will help make sorcs dangerous enough that their opponents will have to play a bit more cautiously. I don't mind ZoS holding off on other buffs and just seeing how this works out before next update.

Thelon

Sureshawt wrote: »

1) Hands down best mobility with streak
2) Best mitigation in the game with shield stacking that also allows them to go offensive
3) Some of the best timed burst in the game
4) Hard hitting class ultimate (one of the best)
4) OK healing with Surge ( a passive free heal just for critting - LOL)

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

But you can´t take the absolute best case scenario where you´re fighting a popato as a reference for the state of the class.
That´s like a templar darkflaring into jesusbeam with a dw light armor maxdps setup instakilling their target. The situation you´re discribing is so absolutely artificial and far from the truth it´s not even funny.

Also you´ve still not said what "combo" you mean. Hardcasted frags into or procced frage into overload which both consume a gcd. Either way the enemy made a severe mistake. In no way comparable to meteor which is just a bugged mess right now because 50% of the time it just ignores block and ccs anyway.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

But you can´t take the absolute best case scenario where you´re fighting a popato as a reference for the state of the class.
That´s like a templar darkflaring into jesusbeam with a dw light armor maxdps setup instakilling their target. The situation you´re discribing is so absolutely artificial and far from the truth it´s not even funny.

Also you´ve still not said what "combo" you mean. Hardcasted frags into or procced frage into overload which both consume a gcd. Either way the enemy made a severe mistake. In no way comparable to meteor which is just a bugged mess right now because 50% of the time it just ignores block and ccs anyway.

I never said sources were fine, I never said that it was the state of the class. I just disagree with what Dracane considered as being issues with the class. A templar Dark Flaring into a Jesus Beam is the exact same thing as a sorcerer Crystal Fragging into a Overload. Except that Overload can be dodged. Hard casting or proc'ing a frag depends on the situation obviously, I can't generalize that.

Aren't sorcs all about waiting for your opponent to make a mistake?

Kas

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

But you can´t take the absolute best case scenario where you´re fighting a popato as a reference for the state of the class.
That´s like a templar darkflaring into jesusbeam with a dw light armor maxdps setup instakilling their target. The situation you´re discribing is so absolutely artificial and far from the truth it´s not even funny.

Also you´ve still not said what "combo" you mean. Hardcasted frags into or procced frage into overload which both consume a gcd. Either way the enemy made a severe mistake. In no way comparable to meteor which is just a bugged mess right now because 50% of the time it just ignores block and ccs anyway.

I never said sources were fine, I never said that it was the state of the class. I just disagree with what Dracane considered as being issues with the class. A templar Dark Flaring into a Jesus Beam is the exact same thing as a sorcerer Crystal Fragging into a Overload. Except that Overload can be dodged. Hard casting or proc'ing a frag depends on the situation obviously, I can't generalize that.

Aren't sorcs all about waiting for your opponent to make a mistake?

a mistake like overlooking a curse, mismanaging resources, charging just when you blink behind your mines, dropping into execute range, etc. not suddenly turning into hard-casting sewers-boys with a 20k life pve dps build.

eserras7b16_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

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IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Uhm no. Please, exaggerating is good and such.
But 100k is really too exaggerated. Most Sorcs I see, have 23k if they stack 2 shields.

And that's it, shieldstacking is the only way to survive. Try playing with 1 shield and you will not tank anyone.
It's easy to tank low damage opponents with shields. But when under attack by average or higher dps, shields become the worst survival tool. Because you just can't get rid of the pressure.

Sorcs are 3rd worst when it comes to burst. All stamina builds and magicka nightblades outperform them by far when it comes to this. Only magicka templar is worse with burst, followed by Dk.
Even though Magicka templar could have access to awesome burst, it's just too stupid to use in my opinion.

Oh please that is a single stack. When I say shields of 100Ks I mean how many stacks a sorc can easily refresh without breaking a sweat. I think 5 refreshes is on the conservative side given how much magicka can stacked not to mention cost reduction/magicka regen. So yea easily in the 100K range. I've seen plenty do double that number and still have magicka for multiple repeated streaks even with the new 50% penalty. So yea they can get away when pressured.

3rd in burst...LOL ....pull that one out of your arse did ya? I don't know where you get that information from but there are plenty of recent videos (Sypher etc.) showing how to setup excellent burst and this is without overload,which I wont even get into.

It is true though that magicka sorcs are no longer a faceroll the keyboard and win over the top OP class like they used to be, however, either you are not doing it right or you are being dishonest about the true state of magicka sorcs.

Because it's true. How about you play the class instead of watching your favorite streamers ? That's where pugs get their builds and ideas from.

The problem with Sorc burst, is that it is the most predictable of all. You see the curse and know when it explodes, you also see the fragments proc. So you can easily do something to evade the "burst" and even if it hits: The times when curse and frag were enough to bring someone in execution range are long gone. Luckily, curse being unblockable now makes our burst a bit harder to mitigate. But it still won't change our position.

Look at nightblade on the other hand: Soul harvest and assassin's will not only hit harder each, but are also as good as impossible to predict. You can barely react to it.
And I don't need to talk about stam and their burst combos.

I don't have to play them to know as I fight them on a regular basis. I know very well what their capabilities are and they can be summarized as follows:

1) Hands down best mobility with streak
2) Best mitigation in the game with shield stacking that also allows them to go offensive
3) Some of the best timed burst in the game
4) Hard hitting class ultimate (one of the best)
4) OK healing with Surge ( a passive free heal just for critting - LOL)

There is nothing in this game that you want in your character that the Sorc cannot provide and it is in fact the most well rounded and versatile class in the game.

Oh and trust me if ZoS were foolish enough to listen people like you and restore them to being over the top OP status then you will see me on one. I never played a Sorc because it is not my play-style and was obvious easy mode.

Shields Up >>Pew Pew>> Get in trouble then just Streak Streak away.

It used to be quite easy. But this was long ago.
Sorcs are the most overnerfed class. No other class received so many direct hits without any compensation.

Streak is so expensive, that everyone can catch a streaking Sorc. Because they can't get far with it and then they are free AP, as their magicka is drained for nothing.

Sorc shields require full attention. You have to recast them every second while under attack, you have no space to go offensive. Stamina on the other hand can simply pop Vigor, a dodge roll here and there. Giving them a huge time frame to attack without the need to recast anything. Which is also very good for ressource management.

Power Surge is poor. Only crit surge is somewhat good

A hard hitting ult, that announces itself with a giant loud explosion and shoots giant glowing orbs at you. All it takes is to dodge, reflect, shuffle or whatever. And then you can go for the offense yourself.

Maybe you are just not as good as you think honey.

Power Surge is amazing. Not a main heal anymore, but in places like vMA/vDSA I'm always at full health. You don't even need shields in PvE anymore because of how good this ability is.

You don't streak to run away, you streak to buy time or to stun/meteor.

If you time your Overload with Frags, its insta kill. I have a clip of me getting ganked by a NB, he comes are me with a Ambush and Incap. I CC break watch him roll dodge, go into overload apply defensive rune empower my frag and shoot it out at the same time as an Overload light. 23k Instant damage. Hard to pull of, but worth trying.

Shields are a magicka drain. Look at NBs they only play with Healing Ward and they are perfectly fine. Yeah they have cloak, but we have crit immunity. As a sorc if you let your shields go down for a second (even way before DB) you were good as dead. Why? 20k health, no resists at all, no crit resists at all. Now I run my sorc with 25k health and 30% crit mitigation. I'm even thinking of rolling a heavy armor sorc with the Lich+Kagrenac's Hope+Engine Guardian when One Tamriel hits live on consoles. I already can't get one shot simply cause I have too much health under the shields. You don't have to keep your shields up 100% of the time, nor do you have to refresh them every second. You pop a shield and you start placing your burst and waiting for that little mistake. Sorcs are hard to play, but when you know how to do it, its very very lethal.

Stamplars are hard to kill because of their healing buffs and the snare from Jabs. Magplars are much much easier (Overload+Frags just one shots them) and radiant isn't a problem because shields. Stam sorcs are hard to out survive so you have to catch them Dark Dealing with that Frag, Hurricane eats your shield constantly so those are very important to take out quickly.

-Sorc has no crit immunity. This "immunity" only comes from shields, and this applies to all damage shields.

-Power Surge is not amazing. Maybe in your pve nutshell. But certainly not in pvp

-Sorc does not naturally have more health than Nightblade. It's only a matter of your gear then

-And whaaat ? Which Templar nowadays dies from a frag and overload ? They all wear heavy armor and usually around 30k health. It's not even possible to 2 shot them. Especially not, when they aware of what you are doing.

You're blind. If a templar is on heavy armour and 30k HP then you might not one shot it as he states but he certainly has 0 chances of going through your shield m8. Don't talk bull***. He one shoots templars who can one shot him, templars with 23k HP for example. I am a templar, not half bad, not super good, but i can tell i've been dueling a lot and a sorcerer CAN DEFINETLY BURST ME DOWN.

Dracane

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Uhm no. Please, exaggerating is good and such.
But 100k is really too exaggerated. Most Sorcs I see, have 23k if they stack 2 shields.

And that's it, shieldstacking is the only way to survive. Try playing with 1 shield and you will not tank anyone.
It's easy to tank low damage opponents with shields. But when under attack by average or higher dps, shields become the worst survival tool. Because you just can't get rid of the pressure.

Sorcs are 3rd worst when it comes to burst. All stamina builds and magicka nightblades outperform them by far when it comes to this. Only magicka templar is worse with burst, followed by Dk.
Even though Magicka templar could have access to awesome burst, it's just too stupid to use in my opinion.

Oh please that is a single stack. When I say shields of 100Ks I mean how many stacks a sorc can easily refresh without breaking a sweat. I think 5 refreshes is on the conservative side given how much magicka can stacked not to mention cost reduction/magicka regen. So yea easily in the 100K range. I've seen plenty do double that number and still have magicka for multiple repeated streaks even with the new 50% penalty. So yea they can get away when pressured.

3rd in burst...LOL ....pull that one out of your arse did ya? I don't know where you get that information from but there are plenty of recent videos (Sypher etc.) showing how to setup excellent burst and this is without overload,which I wont even get into.

It is true though that magicka sorcs are no longer a faceroll the keyboard and win over the top OP class like they used to be, however, either you are not doing it right or you are being dishonest about the true state of magicka sorcs.

Because it's true. How about you play the class instead of watching your favorite streamers ? That's where pugs get their builds and ideas from.

The problem with Sorc burst, is that it is the most predictable of all. You see the curse and know when it explodes, you also see the fragments proc. So you can easily do something to evade the "burst" and even if it hits: The times when curse and frag were enough to bring someone in execution range are long gone. Luckily, curse being unblockable now makes our burst a bit harder to mitigate. But it still won't change our position.

Look at nightblade on the other hand: Soul harvest and assassin's will not only hit harder each, but are also as good as impossible to predict. You can barely react to it.
And I don't need to talk about stam and their burst combos.

I don't have to play them to know as I fight them on a regular basis. I know very well what their capabilities are and they can be summarized as follows:

1) Hands down best mobility with streak
2) Best mitigation in the game with shield stacking that also allows them to go offensive
3) Some of the best timed burst in the game
4) Hard hitting class ultimate (one of the best)
4) OK healing with Surge ( a passive free heal just for critting - LOL)

There is nothing in this game that you want in your character that the Sorc cannot provide and it is in fact the most well rounded and versatile class in the game.

Oh and trust me if ZoS were foolish enough to listen people like you and restore them to being over the top OP status then you will see me on one. I never played a Sorc because it is not my play-style and was obvious easy mode.

Shields Up >>Pew Pew>> Get in trouble then just Streak Streak away.

It used to be quite easy. But this was long ago.
Sorcs are the most overnerfed class. No other class received so many direct hits without any compensation.

Streak is so expensive, that everyone can catch a streaking Sorc. Because they can't get far with it and then they are free AP, as their magicka is drained for nothing.

Sorc shields require full attention. You have to recast them every second while under attack, you have no space to go offensive. Stamina on the other hand can simply pop Vigor, a dodge roll here and there. Giving them a huge time frame to attack without the need to recast anything. Which is also very good for ressource management.

Power Surge is poor. Only crit surge is somewhat good

A hard hitting ult, that announces itself with a giant loud explosion and shoots giant glowing orbs at you. All it takes is to dodge, reflect, shuffle or whatever. And then you can go for the offense yourself.

Maybe you are just not as good as you think honey.

Power Surge is amazing. Not a main heal anymore, but in places like vMA/vDSA I'm always at full health. You don't even need shields in PvE anymore because of how good this ability is.

You don't streak to run away, you streak to buy time or to stun/meteor.

If you time your Overload with Frags, its insta kill. I have a clip of me getting ganked by a NB, he comes are me with a Ambush and Incap. I CC break watch him roll dodge, go into overload apply defensive rune empower my frag and shoot it out at the same time as an Overload light. 23k Instant damage. Hard to pull of, but worth trying.

Shields are a magicka drain. Look at NBs they only play with Healing Ward and they are perfectly fine. Yeah they have cloak, but we have crit immunity. As a sorc if you let your shields go down for a second (even way before DB) you were good as dead. Why? 20k health, no resists at all, no crit resists at all. Now I run my sorc with 25k health and 30% crit mitigation. I'm even thinking of rolling a heavy armor sorc with the Lich+Kagrenac's Hope+Engine Guardian when One Tamriel hits live on consoles. I already can't get one shot simply cause I have too much health under the shields. You don't have to keep your shields up 100% of the time, nor do you have to refresh them every second. You pop a shield and you start placing your burst and waiting for that little mistake. Sorcs are hard to play, but when you know how to do it, its very very lethal.

Stamplars are hard to kill because of their healing buffs and the snare from Jabs. Magplars are much much easier (Overload+Frags just one shots them) and radiant isn't a problem because shields. Stam sorcs are hard to out survive so you have to catch them Dark Dealing with that Frag, Hurricane eats your shield constantly so those are very important to take out quickly.

-Sorc has no crit immunity. This "immunity" only comes from shields, and this applies to all damage shields.

-Power Surge is not amazing. Maybe in your pve nutshell. But certainly not in pvp

-Sorc does not naturally have more health than Nightblade. It's only a matter of your gear then

-And whaaat ? Which Templar nowadays dies from a frag and overload ? They all wear heavy armor and usually around 30k health. It's not even possible to 2 shot them. Especially not, when they aware of what you are doing.

You're blind. If a templar is on heavy armour and 30k HP then you might not one shot it as he states but he certainly has 0 chances of going through your shield m8. Don't talk bull***. He one shoots templars who can one shot him, templars with 23k HP for example. I am a templar, not half bad, not super good, but i can tell i've been dueling a lot and a sorcerer CAN DEFINETLY BURST ME DOWN.

Then you are not yet good enough or your build isn't good.
You'll get better. Took me very long to become decent

Berenhir

As a magblade I just have to warn you. Don't make curse a DoT. You would have some weak crippling grasp then and everyone will vigor-laugh at you, too.

The inherent problem of shields vs dodge is that you can use dodge to animation cancel skills. You don't have to put it on (both of) your bars to use it. Dodge negates burst damage attempts. It saves you from most CCs and is a key mobility factor, especially with a bow. With eternal hunt or morihaus you can even use it as a damaging ability.

Actually you can't compare shields vs dodge. It could be compared to block though.

If sorcs could map the block button to hardened ward and animation cancel their skills with it and could map the dodge roll button to streak and animation cancel e.g. curse with it, the different approaches of damage mitigation would be comparable.

At this stage of development you just have to realise that the action combat system in ESO has shifted or better say evolved (because player experience is another key element) to a offensive stamina meta. Many Magicka builds that used to work now are just like fighting in heavy plate armor after firearms where invented.

RinaldoGandolphi

I think a good start would be making CC Breaking and Dodge roll use whichever resource is the highest(Stam or magicka)

a CC dodge system based on stamina heavily favors stamina meta. Allowing magicka based players dodge roll and break freee to use stamina instead of magicka would do a lot to even the playing field.

hrothbern

Berenhir wrote: »

As a magblade I just have to warn you. Don't make curse a DoT. You would have some weak crippling grasp then and everyone will vigor-laugh at you, too.

The inherent problem of shields vs dodge is that you can use dodge to animation cancel skills. You don't have to put it on (both of) your bars to use it. Dodge negates burst damage attempts. It saves you from most CCs and is a key mobility factor, especially with a bow. With eternal hunt or morihaus you can even use it as a damaging ability.

Actually you can't compare shields vs dodge. It could be compared to block though.

If sorcs could map the block button to hardened ward and animation cancel their skills with it and could map the dodge roll button to streak and animation cancel e.g. curse with it, the different approaches of damage mitigation would be comparable.

At this stage of development you just have to realise that the action combat system in ESO has shifted or better say evolved (because player experience is another key element) to a offensive stamina meta. Many Magicka builds that used to work now are just like fighting in heavy plate armor after firearms where invented.

@Berenhir , Interesting analysis !!!

Question:
Do you think that when Ward would count for the global cooldown as a block, that there is a solution ?
(without changing bindings)

mini rotation could be: LA=>Ability=>Ward within the total 1 second GCD
like for Stamina builds with LA=>Ability=>Bash

old_mufasa

"Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil"

I really hope this was a joke comment....

TreeHugger1

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I think a good start would be making CC Breaking and Dodge roll use whichever resource is the highest(Stam or magicka)

a CC dodge system based on stamina heavily favors stamina meta. Allowing magicka based players dodge roll and break freee to use stamina instead of magicka would do a lot to even the playing field.

do the opposite (cc breaking and dodge roll use whichever resource is the lowest) it will very funny to see how stamblades will react xD

Joy_Division

old_mufasa wrote: »

"Magicka DK Vampire with Destro/Resto is better and has more survivability then Sorcs do right now in Cyrodiil"

I really hope this was a joke comment....

Had to be. That's the least survivable spec in Cryodiil atm.

Berenhir

hrothbern wrote: »

show previous quotes

Berenhir wrote: »

As a magblade I just have to warn you. Don't make curse a DoT. You would have some weak crippling grasp then and everyone will vigor-laugh at you, too.

The inherent problem of shields vs dodge is that you can use dodge to animation cancel skills. You don't have to put it on (both of) your bars to use it. Dodge negates burst damage attempts. It saves you from most CCs and is a key mobility factor, especially with a bow. With eternal hunt or morihaus you can even use it as a damaging ability.

Actually you can't compare shields vs dodge. It could be compared to block though.

If sorcs could map the block button to hardened ward and animation cancel their skills with it and could map the dodge roll button to streak and animation cancel e.g. curse with it, the different approaches of damage mitigation would be comparable.

At this stage of development you just have to realise that the action combat system in ESO has shifted or better say evolved (because player experience is another key element) to a offensive stamina meta. Many Magicka builds that used to work now are just like fighting in heavy plate armor after firearms where invented.

@Berenhir , Interesting analysis !!!

Question:
Do you think that when Ward would count for the global cooldown as a block, that there is a solution ?
(without changing bindings)

mini rotation could be: LA=>Ability=>Ward within the total 1 second GCD
like for Stamina builds with LA=>Ability=>Bash

Yes, this would be one possibility.

But honestly, that would need some major balancing, so wont happen.

I think magicka (or stamina) should be entirely removed from the game, just have one ressource for everything and be done with it.

Izaki

Kas wrote: »

show previous quotes

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

But you can´t take the absolute best case scenario where you´re fighting a popato as a reference for the state of the class.
That´s like a templar darkflaring into jesusbeam with a dw light armor maxdps setup instakilling their target. The situation you´re discribing is so absolutely artificial and far from the truth it´s not even funny.

Also you´ve still not said what "combo" you mean. Hardcasted frags into or procced frage into overload which both consume a gcd. Either way the enemy made a severe mistake. In no way comparable to meteor which is just a bugged mess right now because 50% of the time it just ignores block and ccs anyway.

I never said sources were fine, I never said that it was the state of the class. I just disagree with what Dracane considered as being issues with the class. A templar Dark Flaring into a Jesus Beam is the exact same thing as a sorcerer Crystal Fragging into a Overload. Except that Overload can be dodged. Hard casting or proc'ing a frag depends on the situation obviously, I can't generalize that.

Aren't sorcs all about waiting for your opponent to make a mistake?

a mistake like overlooking a curse, mismanaging resources, charging just when you blink behind your mines, dropping into execute range, etc. not suddenly turning into hard-casting sewers-boys with a 20k life pve dps build.

You don't hard-cast in PvE and you don't have 20K health either. More like 17-18k.

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

But you can´t take the absolute best case scenario where you´re fighting a popato as a reference for the state of the class.
That´s like a templar darkflaring into jesusbeam with a dw light armor maxdps setup instakilling their target. The situation you´re discribing is so absolutely artificial and far from the truth it´s not even funny.

Also you´ve still not said what "combo" you mean. Hardcasted frags into or procced frage into overload which both consume a gcd. Either way the enemy made a severe mistake. In no way comparable to meteor which is just a bugged mess right now because 50% of the time it just ignores block and ccs anyway.

I never said sources were fine, I never said that it was the state of the class. I just disagree with what Dracane considered as being issues with the class. A templar Dark Flaring into a Jesus Beam is the exact same thing as a sorcerer Crystal Fragging into a Overload. Except that Overload can be dodged. Hard casting or proc'ing a frag depends on the situation obviously, I can't generalize that.

Aren't sorcs all about waiting for your opponent to make a mistake?

You are 100% correct and that is the classes biggest weakness. Sorcs rely on enemies making mistakes to get a kill.

This is problematic as other classes have a more direct approach and with higher "skilllevel" your enemies tend to make less mistakes. They can dictate the fight and force a kill. As a sorc i have to setup my whole fight as a series of traps and hope for one of them to work.

A class should not rely on enemy mistakes (even if you outclass them) to be able to kill them. That´s the sorcerer classes problem imo.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtf. Where do you find templars that you can oneshot with frags + overload.

I mean not that any halfdecent pvp templar can simply block for extended periods of time - no for both attacks to hit at the same time you have to hardcast that fragment. What kind of player lets you hardcast a fragment and does not dodge it.
Are you talking about afk pve players in sewers?

The f*** did i just read.

Ever heard of defensive rune? Thats how you land overload + frag on any one. If it doesn't kill them straight away then they are at least under 20% health.
Someone who lets you hardcast a frag is someone who is either dark flaring you or RDing you. Or WBing you for that matter.

How would that allow for both to hit at the same time? Like i´ve said - you must be fighting muppets. The best thing that defensive rune allows you to land is one of them if at all. If you start hardcasting fragments when they get into the rune they have enough time to breakfree and dodge even if you stand in melee and are able to eliminate 100% of the projectile travel time.

If you mean that you use a procced frag + overload light attack - both of which consume a gcd - and the enemy player gets hit by both of them not blocking or using any other defense. Wow idk what to say. People have to be braindead or heavily sedated for that to happen.

Are you sure you´re fighting players with an alliance symbol above their head? Red rook raiders are npcs - sorry to disappoint you.

I guess I'm fighting muppets then.

Atleast i´ve not met the players you´re describing when soloing / smallgrping all the way to general on my dc sorc and neither on the way to captain with my ep sorc in the last month.

I'm not describing players. I'm just saying that its very possible to hit people with the said combo. Its just like placing a Meteor without it getting blocked.

But you can´t take the absolute best case scenario where you´re fighting a popato as a reference for the state of the class.
That´s like a templar darkflaring into jesusbeam with a dw light armor maxdps setup instakilling their target. The situation you´re discribing is so absolutely artificial and far from the truth it´s not even funny.

Also you´ve still not said what "combo" you mean. Hardcasted frags into or procced frage into overload which both consume a gcd. Either way the enemy made a severe mistake. In no way comparable to meteor which is just a bugged mess right now because 50% of the time it just ignores block and ccs anyway.

I never said sources were fine, I never said that it was the state of the class. I just disagree with what Dracane considered as being issues with the class. A templar Dark Flaring into a Jesus Beam is the exact same thing as a sorcerer Crystal Fragging into a Overload. Except that Overload can be dodged. Hard casting or proc'ing a frag depends on the situation obviously, I can't generalize that.

Aren't sorcs all about waiting for your opponent to make a mistake?

You are 100% correct and that is the classes biggest weakness. Sorcs rely on enemies making mistakes to get a kill.

This is problematic as other classes have a more direct approach and with higher "skilllevel" your enemies tend to make less mistakes. They can dictate the fight and force a kill. As a sorc i have to setup my whole fight as a series of traps and hope for one of them to work.

A class should not rely on enemy mistakes (even if you outclass them) to be able to kill them. That´s the sorcerer classes problem imo.

Thing is... Its a class without identity...