Magic Sorcs need some MAJOR help and it can't wait until the next update

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everyone is strong with Imperial Physique and when they can break line of sight.

In my case, I rarely stepped into Cryrodiil since IC was launched. Pets don't work very well in an open field and I don't like it, when I can't predict things. Because in Cyrodiil, there are always more and more people coming out of stealth. In IC, you have better control over it.

And I only use 1 shield, I'm way too squishy to take more than I can predict
Sustain is my main problem, hardened ward is so expensive to maintain, that I rely on killing my oponents fast.
I think I could build for more sustain and step into Cyrodiil and survive.... But I most certainly would not be able to kill anyone. Sorc base damage is too low for this.

Agreed, and to be honest I don't blame you for staying in IC. My Sorc does pretty well in IC, but open world Cyrodiil....nah....

Here is the Major Part many are missing which I know you @Dracane understand.

The 6 Second Shield duration does not suck because of survivability it suck because of damage and how the class is designed.

Before the Shield Duration Change a Sorc Could:

1. Apply Daedric Curse (Expires in 3.5 seconds)
2. Tag Target with Mage's Fury (Lasts 4 seconds)
3. Spam Crushing Shock with Light Attack Weaves to get a Frag Proc
4. Time your Curse and Frags to hit at the same time to proc Mage's Fury all 3 go boom.

Since Crystal Fragments is ENTIRELY based on RNG there was no guarantee when you would get that Frag proc, perhaps on your 1st Crushing Shock cast, maybe your 5th. However with your shields lasting 20 seconds you had room to be flexible as you didn't need to recast unless they were wittled down small or gone...only bad Sorcs who let multiple people beat on them re-casted sheilds every 5 seconds.

After the Shield Duration Change

1. Apply Daedric Curse (Expires in 3.5 seconds)
2. Tag Target with Mage's Fury (Lasts 4 seconds)
3. Spam Crushing Shock with Light Attack Weaves to get a Frag Proc
4. Time your Curse and Frags to hit at the same time to proc Mage's Fury all 3 go boom.

Since Crystal Fragments is ENTIRELY based on RNG there was no guarantee when you would get that Frag proc, perhaps on your 1st Crushing Shock cast, maybe your 5th. If you don't proc a Frag on your 1st Crushing Shock cast you are FORCED to recast shields(often times having to bar swap) you can't maintain your crushing shock pressure on any player with half a brain, you are forced to go defensive if you like it or not...even with full impen light armor a single Dizzy Swing can take 70% of your health....If i still have 10k worth of shields left after 6 seconds, im not gonna recast, im gonna set up my delayed damage combo, but you can't do that with 6 second shields.

All and all to me, the class the way i want to play it ,which is a light armored caster, is dead All our damage is "delayed burst" and 6 seconds isn't long enough to set up that burst. Im not a huge fan of pet builds, you can make some of them work in some cases, and there are a few really good pet sorcs out there, but its just no my cup of tea.

I have caved and now have a max level Mag Blade...its a better caster, has better damage, better sustain, better utility, better everything...and far more survivable.

Sorc is my favorite class, always will be...I miss the days of being squishy but being able to zip around the battle field with speed....If we had far better mobilty options and not a neutered Streak, it probably wouldn't be so bad, but once your in gap closer range in open Cyrodiil with a few players your screwed....before all these changes the squishy Sorc could get away half the time, now your just ridden down. My Heavy Armor Magplar tank healer can walk 10-12 people from DC Farm to the front door face tanking damage and is actually capable of killing people...Sorc's life is wholly dependent on weapon swapping that doesn't even work half the time...the class has to play far too defensive which is a shame really. the class should have more then one viable way to play.

Yes, DK also need help too, I have a Dunmer Magic DK, I stopped playing him PVP for the same reason as my Sorc...far too squishy without Sword and Board and Heavy Armor and too reliant on Ultimates to kill people and forced to be a Vampire just to have a 20% chance to not be zerged due to lack of mobility.

Magic Nightblade and Magic Templar are decent, but they are nothing in comparison to their Stam DK, Stam Templar, Stam Nightblade, and Stam Sorc Overlords.....the amount of unbalance here is absurd....The CP System is biased to Stam, look no farther then the Unchained and Tactician passives in comparison to Arcane Well and Foresight lol.....fixing this is a whole other doozy in itself

My shield always lasted for more than 6 seconds. Maybe not when you get beaten by a zerg. But it usually always did.
These shields are just a huge magicka drain, nothing else. They don't give you actual health, they don't bring you out of execution range. When you are at 20% life you need 1 breath of life and you are out of all execution ranges.
But you can keep on spamming a shield and your shield will get one shotted at this point and you will just spam yourself to death until the next CC hits you.

Shields need major buffs in my opinion. Shieldstackers won't understand. But people who play with only 1 shield, will know HOW weak damage shields truly are compared to all other survival mechanics.

Agreed . Been noticing this more and more

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

I'd be happy with just changing Velocious Curse to a DoT and add 20% magic recovery to the Daedric Summoning passive that currently gives 20% health and stamina recovery.

Changing curse into a DoT is mag sorc nerf from PvP perspective. Sorc already have 10% magicka recovery in passive so if I would need to change something I would change that passive to 20% instead of adding additional 20% .

Not everything has to revolve around PvP though. The worst changes come from PvP players complaining so much. Lets have some love for PvE players for a change. We have to change our builds, skills and the way we play so much because something was nerfed due to a large amount of PvP players crying over it.

Example: Barrier. Which serves little to no purpose in PvE anymore due to it hitting half a trial group. And soon to be Radiant Oppression. Which will kill magic Templars if not adjusted properly to suit PvP.

I agree not everything need to be around PvP , but You cant demand to rework skill that is main part of some class PvP rotation and without it class which have problems right now will be dead only because You want to get slightly higher DPS in PvE. For Your knowledge PvE sorcerers are using curse atm and getting good dps with it. I reccomend You to watch Yolo Wizard or Streak One You Tube chanells.( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwsshNZNfcig6e-PgCzNHzg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRRCr_Gyp1XSkR0OdQd0muQ )

About barrier I think You underestimate this ulti. I am using it in PvE on my stam builds when I am doing vMA and things gets nasty or in vDSA in same situations. Also i think cap is not at 6m but at 12m so You missed the point entirely. People stopped using barrier in trial enviroments because we're living now in warhorn times when if group can have warhorn more then 75% of fight uptime they get dps raise high enough to burst their way through trial.

I do watch Streak. He's one of the few who can pull high dps as a magic sorc. I run magic sorc myself and I love it but it is still out classed by a lot. It needs a few changes because right now it is wall of elements and force pull till your frag. Curse is very new to the roation because the lack of diversity amongst sorcs.

Also I'm damn sure barrier hits 6 ppl if not please prove me wrong cause I haven't seen the patch notes changing it back. That is the main reason it was dropped in trials. War horn is fairly new to what ppl expect in a trial group. Yes it was used but it wasn't a necessity. If you have less than 6 ppl present it's great if you have more it's crap.

Just saying because it may be a 'hit' PvP doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed to change. PvE takes hits to skills all the time. We adopt, we change. PvP should too.

Not a single PvE build is diverse though. There's only a few ways to get maw DPS out of a class.

Alucardo

Legit non-overpowered suggestions. I don't see why these things can't happen. Good stuff.

Doctordarkspawn

Wont happen. They wont buff light armor.

The dev team have eyes for stamina only at the moment.

Valencer

Magicka sorcs are still quite popular and in a recent 1v1 tournament on the PC EU server the mag sorcs performed quite well.

Whether theyre still fun to play after the shield nerfs is subjective, but there's no doubt on my mind about them still being highly effective if the player in question is willing to deal with the shorter duration shields (more frequent recasting, basically).

Hardened Ward stacked with Annulment is also virtually unbreakable right now. Keep that in mind.
Before the shield changes annulment didnt absorb stamina-based abilities so stam builds could break a mag sorc's defenses with a carefully planned burst... not so much anymore.

I would say a good start would be undoing the shield duration nerfs, but making annulment and hardened ward totally unstackable so both magicka and stamina builds have a fair shot at getting a proper burst in. Should make magicka sorcerers more fun to play as, and against.

RinaldoGandolphi

Still not surprised to see silence from ZOS.

This goes much further then just Sorcs its ALL Magicka Builds.

Lets Use damage shields as an example shall we:

Prior to Imperial City release my Hardened Ward could take "2 hits" from a damage focused build before being gone.

After Imperial City release(reduced shield values by 50%) My Hardened Ward could still take "2 hits"from a damage focused build before being gone.

After DB/SOH, My 11-12k Ward can only absorb "1 hit" from a damage focused build before its gone. (And that includes 40+ points in both Hardy and Defender and 85+ points into Bastions and 41k max magicka(could get more with toggles, inner light, etc but then you give up other useful skills)

Not only has my shield been:

Reduced in size by 50%
Duration reduced by 70%
It now also stops 50% less damage then it used to post IC update.

Damage values in Cyrodiil even with the 50% battle spirit reduction are now back to pre-IC levels. You are seeing the same 14-16k snipes on people folks complained about prior to IC release.

This is a HUGE problem because while gear, CP, and power creep has steadily continued to rise, Damage shields and what they can absorb has remained largely stagnant. To the point shields will be completely worthless in the next update or two as even a 60K magic build will not be capable of producing a shield that can take more then 1 hit from all these full blown damage specs in the game.

Damage shield were powerful because:

MAGIC BUILDS DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DODGE ROLL, BREAK FREE, ROOT IMMUNITY, AND SNARE IMMUNITY AND SPRINT LIKE STAM BUILDS DO!

This is why Magic Builds have shields, to make the playing ground fair. That 50% reduction in shield value holds them back as damage keeps increasing 5-7% per patch with gear and CP, but shield remain the same...a few more updates and shields will no longer be usable as they won't even be able to absorb even 1 hit anymore...and wearing Light Armor under it...dead....not even a contest.

Do the math..it isn't hard to figure out....damage is double now what it was post IC release, but shields have largely stayed the same saddled by a 50% reduction in their value which just leaves them at the mercy of Stam who can dodge roll, break free, and sprint pretty much forever....You will never kill a stam build by running him out of a stam, a magic build is very easy to run out of stam which = dead, and only viable defense against being such easy prey to the plethora of CC skills and snares that attack a magic builds small stamina pool has been rendered largely useless.

How many of these changes even got out of the discussion room is beyond me. Its clear as day to see how unbalanced and OP TG, DB, and SOH were from a balance perspective...anyone could see it a mile away...how does this stuff even get past the discussion stage?

At this point i doubt there is any hope magic builds get any kind of attention. not for a very long time. The only saving grace I have is Skyrim Enchanced Edition will be waiting in my Steam library for free on Oct 28th, because if something isn't done for magicka builds as a whole by the time this PTS is over, it will be pointless even bothering to play it as magic builds are absolute garbage in both PVE and PVP compared to stam counterparts. A magicka Templar can be very tanky and heal, but he gets called cancer for staying alive against 6 button mashing stam builds beating on him for 2 minutes...yes 6 stam builds...notice the magicka builds being absent?

Go look around Cyrodiil sometime...all you see and hear is being pelted in all directions by arrows, and gap closer, Dizzying Swing, and Poison Injection spam...im half tempted to pull my DK out of retirement and infect all the stam builds in Cyrodiil with the cancer known as Fassala's Guile and Talon root spam them to death and lock them doww so they can't heal while a zerg kills them...

Every magicka build should pretty much being wearing Fassala's at this point, as Vigor and Rally no longer work when they damage you thus you take away their healing completely...you don't need much DPS to kill a target who can't heal at all...51% Healing Debuff with Fassala + 50% healing debuff from Battle Spirit = 0%...even with 100 points in Quick Recovery, Blessed, Major/Minor Mending, Vitality, and Malabeth...200% of zero is still zero...now go forth...infect all stam builds with cancer...let a stam build not even be able to look around a corner without someone running Fassala's

Derra

Valencer wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are still quite popular and in a recent 1v1 tournament on the PC EU server the mag sorcs performed quite well.

You mean the tournament where basically everything that makes life hard for light armor sorcs was banned (apart from not being able to use detection potions).

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

1) Rules
-No Malubeth/Stormknight set;
-No Fasalla's
-No Viper + Velidreth COMBO
-No Champion Points change;
-No Poisons;
-No Immovable, Vitality or Detection potions;
-If using Shieldbreaker, no spams are allowed.

If this was average pvp no sorc would ever complain if you ask me.

Birdovic

Havent played for months and didnt even buy the latest dlc this time. Came to look around, maybe we had some nice balancing...Foolish thought, everyone still angry^^

Well, lets wait what this update has to offer, maybe a suprise and I can return to the game I once loved to play ._.
I just want to enjoy my sorc again, still no need to return to ESO I guess

Minalan

Birdovic wrote: »

Havent played for months and didnt even buy the latest dlc this time. Came to look around, maybe we had some nice balancing...Foolish thought, everyone still angry^^

Well, lets wait what this update has to offer, maybe a suprise and I can return to the game I once loved to play ._.
I just want to enjoy my sorc again, still no need to return to ESO I guess

Pretty much this...

americansteel

Vaoh wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

In pvp regards Sorcerer along with stam blades still dominate. youre fine

OP writes up a massive, thoroughly considered post regarding how broken Magicka Sorcerers have become overtime due to a plethora of direct and indirect nerfs, and your response is "youre fine"?

L2Balance

yup, im glad you can read.

sorcs are fine.

HIGH burst DPS insane mobility along with NB sorcerer has or (can) have high survivability in pvp .

class roles learn it or leave the class.

Dracane

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Still not surprised to see silence from ZOS.

This goes much further then just Sorcs its ALL Magicka Builds.

Lets Use damage shields as an example shall we:

Prior to Imperial City release my Hardened Ward could take "2 hits" from a damage focused build before being gone.

After Imperial City release(reduced shield values by 50%) My Hardened Ward could still take "2 hits"from a damage focused build before being gone.

After DB/SOH, My 11-12k Ward can only absorb "1 hit" from a damage focused build before its gone. (And that includes 40+ points in both Hardy and Defender and 85+ points into Bastions and 41k max magicka(could get more with toggles, inner light, etc but then you give up other useful skills)

Not only has my shield been:

Reduced in size by 50%
Duration reduced by 70%
It now also stops 50% less damage then it used to post IC update.

Damage values in Cyrodiil even with the 50% battle spirit reduction are now back to pre-IC levels. You are seeing the same 14-16k snipes on people folks complained about prior to IC release.

This is a HUGE problem because while gear, CP, and power creep has steadily continued to rise, Damage shields and what they can absorb has remained largely stagnant. To the point shields will be completely worthless in the next update or two as even a 60K magic build will not be capable of producing a shield that can take more then 1 hit from all these full blown damage specs in the game.

Damage shield were powerful because:

MAGIC BUILDS DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DODGE ROLL, BREAK FREE, ROOT IMMUNITY, AND SNARE IMMUNITY AND SPRINT LIKE STAM BUILDS DO!

This is why Magic Builds have shields, to make the playing ground fair. That 50% reduction in shield value holds them back as damage keeps increasing 5-7% per patch with gear and CP, but shield remain the same...a few more updates and shields will no longer be usable as they won't even be able to absorb even 1 hit anymore...and wearing Light Armor under it...dead....not even a contest.

Do the math..it isn't hard to figure out....damage is double now what it was post IC release, but shields have largely stayed the same saddled by a 50% reduction in their value which just leaves them at the mercy of Stam who can dodge roll, break free, and sprint pretty much forever....You will never kill a stam build by running him out of a stam, a magic build is very easy to run out of stam which = dead, and only viable defense against being such easy prey to the plethora of CC skills and snares that attack a magic builds small stamina pool has been rendered largely useless.

How many of these changes even got out of the discussion room is beyond me. Its clear as day to see how unbalanced and OP TG, DB, and SOH were from a balance perspective...anyone could see it a mile away...how does this stuff even get past the discussion stage?

At this point i doubt there is any hope magic builds get any kind of attention. not for a very long time. The only saving grace I have is Skyrim Enchanced Edition will be waiting in my Steam library for free on Oct 28th, because if something isn't done for magicka builds as a whole by the time this PTS is over, it will be pointless even bothering to play it as magic builds are absolute garbage in both PVE and PVP compared to stam counterparts. A magicka Templar can be very tanky and heal, but he gets called cancer for staying alive against 6 button mashing stam builds beating on him for 2 minutes...yes 6 stam builds...notice the magicka builds being absent?

Go look around Cyrodiil sometime...all you see and hear is being pelted in all directions by arrows, and gap closer, Dizzying Swing, and Poison Injection spam...im half tempted to pull my DK out of retirement and infect all the stam builds in Cyrodiil with the cancer known as Fassala's Guile and Talon root spam them to death and lock them doww so they can't heal while a zerg kills them...

Every magicka build should pretty much being wearing Fassala's at this point, as Vigor and Rally no longer work when they damage you thus you take away their healing completely...you don't need much DPS to kill a target who can't heal at all...51% Healing Debuff with Fassala + 50% healing debuff from Battle Spirit = 0%...even with 100 points in Quick Recovery, Blessed, Major/Minor Mending, Vitality, and Malabeth...200% of zero is still zero...now go forth...infect all stam builds with cancer...let a stam build not even be able to look around a corner without someone running Fassala's

A big reason, why shields are so fragile now is shattering blows and also, that they allowed to apply all dots on shields.
Shields require too much active care. So that you have no time to react and go offensive.

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

olsborg

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Still not surprised to see silence from ZOS.

This goes much further then just Sorcs its ALL Magicka Builds.

Lets Use damage shields as an example shall we:

Prior to Imperial City release my Hardened Ward could take "2 hits" from a damage focused build before being gone.

After Imperial City release(reduced shield values by 50%) My Hardened Ward could still take "2 hits"from a damage focused build before being gone.

After DB/SOH, My 11-12k Ward can only absorb "1 hit" from a damage focused build before its gone. (And that includes 40+ points in both Hardy and Defender and 85+ points into Bastions and 41k max magicka(could get more with toggles, inner light, etc but then you give up other useful skills)

Not only has my shield been:

Reduced in size by 50%
Duration reduced by 70%
It now also stops 50% less damage then it used to post IC update.

Damage values in Cyrodiil even with the 50% battle spirit reduction are now back to pre-IC levels. You are seeing the same 14-16k snipes on people folks complained about prior to IC release.

This is a HUGE problem because while gear, CP, and power creep has steadily continued to rise, Damage shields and what they can absorb has remained largely stagnant. To the point shields will be completely worthless in the next update or two as even a 60K magic build will not be capable of producing a shield that can take more then 1 hit from all these full blown damage specs in the game.

Damage shield were powerful because:

MAGIC BUILDS DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DODGE ROLL, BREAK FREE, ROOT IMMUNITY, AND SNARE IMMUNITY AND SPRINT LIKE STAM BUILDS DO!

This is why Magic Builds have shields, to make the playing ground fair. That 50% reduction in shield value holds them back as damage keeps increasing 5-7% per patch with gear and CP, but shield remain the same...a few more updates and shields will no longer be usable as they won't even be able to absorb even 1 hit anymore...and wearing Light Armor under it...dead....not even a contest.

Do the math..it isn't hard to figure out....damage is double now what it was post IC release, but shields have largely stayed the same saddled by a 50% reduction in their value which just leaves them at the mercy of Stam who can dodge roll, break free, and sprint pretty much forever....You will never kill a stam build by running him out of a stam, a magic build is very easy to run out of stam which = dead, and only viable defense against being such easy prey to the plethora of CC skills and snares that attack a magic builds small stamina pool has been rendered largely useless.

How many of these changes even got out of the discussion room is beyond me. Its clear as day to see how unbalanced and OP TG, DB, and SOH were from a balance perspective...anyone could see it a mile away...how does this stuff even get past the discussion stage?

At this point i doubt there is any hope magic builds get any kind of attention. not for a very long time. The only saving grace I have is Skyrim Enchanced Edition will be waiting in my Steam library for free on Oct 28th, because if something isn't done for magicka builds as a whole by the time this PTS is over, it will be pointless even bothering to play it as magic builds are absolute garbage in both PVE and PVP compared to stam counterparts. A magicka Templar can be very tanky and heal, but he gets called cancer for staying alive against 6 button mashing stam builds beating on him for 2 minutes...yes 6 stam builds...notice the magicka builds being absent?

Go look around Cyrodiil sometime...all you see and hear is being pelted in all directions by arrows, and gap closer, Dizzying Swing, and Poison Injection spam...im half tempted to pull my DK out of retirement and infect all the stam builds in Cyrodiil with the cancer known as Fassala's Guile and Talon root spam them to death and lock them doww so they can't heal while a zerg kills them...

Every magicka build should pretty much being wearing Fassala's at this point, as Vigor and Rally no longer work when they damage you thus you take away their healing completely...you don't need much DPS to kill a target who can't heal at all...51% Healing Debuff with Fassala + 50% healing debuff from Battle Spirit = 0%...even with 100 points in Quick Recovery, Blessed, Major/Minor Mending, Vitality, and Malabeth...200% of zero is still zero...now go forth...infect all stam builds with cancer...let a stam build not even be able to look around a corner without someone running Fassala's

A big reason, why shields are so fragile now is shattering blows and also, that they allowed to apply all dots on shields.
Shields require too much active care. So that you have no time to react and go offensive.

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

True, one other thing. There are a multitude of ways to increase healing recieved or healing done, either through cp(2 stars actually), buffs or sets. There is only one way to increase your shield strenght and that is through the bastion star cp. As usual, zos didnt think it all the way through when they nerfed healing and shieldstrenght exactly the same way for cyrodiil.

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Still not surprised to see silence from ZOS.

This goes much further then just Sorcs its ALL Magicka Builds.

Lets Use damage shields as an example shall we:

Prior to Imperial City release my Hardened Ward could take "2 hits" from a damage focused build before being gone.

After Imperial City release(reduced shield values by 50%) My Hardened Ward could still take "2 hits"from a damage focused build before being gone.

After DB/SOH, My 11-12k Ward can only absorb "1 hit" from a damage focused build before its gone. (And that includes 40+ points in both Hardy and Defender and 85+ points into Bastions and 41k max magicka(could get more with toggles, inner light, etc but then you give up other useful skills)

Not only has my shield been:

Reduced in size by 50%
Duration reduced by 70%
It now also stops 50% less damage then it used to post IC update.

Damage values in Cyrodiil even with the 50% battle spirit reduction are now back to pre-IC levels. You are seeing the same 14-16k snipes on people folks complained about prior to IC release.

This is a HUGE problem because while gear, CP, and power creep has steadily continued to rise, Damage shields and what they can absorb has remained largely stagnant. To the point shields will be completely worthless in the next update or two as even a 60K magic build will not be capable of producing a shield that can take more then 1 hit from all these full blown damage specs in the game.

Damage shield were powerful because:

MAGIC BUILDS DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DODGE ROLL, BREAK FREE, ROOT IMMUNITY, AND SNARE IMMUNITY AND SPRINT LIKE STAM BUILDS DO!

This is why Magic Builds have shields, to make the playing ground fair. That 50% reduction in shield value holds them back as damage keeps increasing 5-7% per patch with gear and CP, but shield remain the same...a few more updates and shields will no longer be usable as they won't even be able to absorb even 1 hit anymore...and wearing Light Armor under it...dead....not even a contest.

Do the math..it isn't hard to figure out....damage is double now what it was post IC release, but shields have largely stayed the same saddled by a 50% reduction in their value which just leaves them at the mercy of Stam who can dodge roll, break free, and sprint pretty much forever....You will never kill a stam build by running him out of a stam, a magic build is very easy to run out of stam which = dead, and only viable defense against being such easy prey to the plethora of CC skills and snares that attack a magic builds small stamina pool has been rendered largely useless.

How many of these changes even got out of the discussion room is beyond me. Its clear as day to see how unbalanced and OP TG, DB, and SOH were from a balance perspective...anyone could see it a mile away...how does this stuff even get past the discussion stage?

At this point i doubt there is any hope magic builds get any kind of attention. not for a very long time. The only saving grace I have is Skyrim Enchanced Edition will be waiting in my Steam library for free on Oct 28th, because if something isn't done for magicka builds as a whole by the time this PTS is over, it will be pointless even bothering to play it as magic builds are absolute garbage in both PVE and PVP compared to stam counterparts. A magicka Templar can be very tanky and heal, but he gets called cancer for staying alive against 6 button mashing stam builds beating on him for 2 minutes...yes 6 stam builds...notice the magicka builds being absent?

Go look around Cyrodiil sometime...all you see and hear is being pelted in all directions by arrows, and gap closer, Dizzying Swing, and Poison Injection spam...im half tempted to pull my DK out of retirement and infect all the stam builds in Cyrodiil with the cancer known as Fassala's Guile and Talon root spam them to death and lock them doww so they can't heal while a zerg kills them...

Every magicka build should pretty much being wearing Fassala's at this point, as Vigor and Rally no longer work when they damage you thus you take away their healing completely...you don't need much DPS to kill a target who can't heal at all...51% Healing Debuff with Fassala + 50% healing debuff from Battle Spirit = 0%...even with 100 points in Quick Recovery, Blessed, Major/Minor Mending, Vitality, and Malabeth...200% of zero is still zero...now go forth...infect all stam builds with cancer...let a stam build not even be able to look around a corner without someone running Fassala's

A big reason, why shields are so fragile now is shattering blows and also, that they allowed to apply all dots on shields.
Shields require too much active care. So that you have no time to react and go offensive.

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

True, one other thing. There are a multitude of ways to increase healing recieved or healing done, either through cp(2 stars actually), buffs or sets. There is only one way to increase your shield strenght and that is through the bastion star cp. As usual, zos didnt think it all the way through when they nerfed healing and shieldstrenght exactly the same way for cyrodiil.

Right. It's not fair at all.
I think, shields are in a really bad place right now. As long as you don't fire all your magicka to spam stack them, you are not going to live.

Izaki

dsalter wrote: »

as a hard core sorc. you assume we are ment to play that way?

• shield duration i agree sucks, 10 would be plenty.
• frag procs could be increased in speed + slight chance increase.
• staffs in general need to be buffed so not a sorc only thing.
• storm arch is abysmal and needs a complete rework.
• Overload is to much of a crutch and is the reason i see that we get nerfed so hard (just look at the other thread about the 10mil tel'var farm for an example) and could do with being replaced entirely.
• streak was overnerfed, lower the cost increase slightly and i can see it being fine, or increase the distance it travels.
• Surge is pretty lame now, thanks to the nerf which btw was brought on BECAUSE of OVERLOAD, the crutch skill.
• mines are pretty good tho they could be made with being turned more transparent so that it's harder to spot them.
• Pets and armor toggles were made persistant with bars due to overload buff bars... again another OVERLOAD related nerf.

Conclusion?

Overload needs to be changed before i can see us getting any notable buffs since such a powerful crutch is impacting how they see the class. surge and toggles were nerfed hard specifically because of Overload.

Surge is amazing.

strikeback1247

Sorcs are the new templars. Enjoy being zos' trashcan fellas :^)

Glantir

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Sorcs are the new templars. Enjoy being zos' trashcan fellas :^)

There is a big difference.... temps were always good in healing, sorcs were never good in anything except in shielding and run away very desirable to be best in running xD, Ok Sorcs are good in bursting for a really short time thats only good in pvp and only if your opponent is not a dk ^^

CyrusArya

Sorcerer
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.

There you go QQ sorcs, huge buff.

RinaldoGandolphi

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.

There you go QQ sorcs, huge buff.

Its a small start....def will help Sorcs with Shuffle dodge roll spam builds....My Blocked Velicious Cirse hits for 6-7k on live...i'll easily get 10-12k hits out of this next update Combined with Mage's Wrath...i like it....like it alot!

Its a start my Sorc brothers and sisters! its a start!

Dracane

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.

There you go QQ sorcs, huge buff.

Its a small start....def will help Sorcs with Shuffle dodge roll spam builds....My Blocked Velicious Cirse hits for 6-7k on live...i'll easily get 10-12k hits out of this next update Combined with Mage's Wrath...i like it....like it alot!

Its a start my Sorc brothers and sisters! its a start!

I have 60k magicka and 3.3k spell damage and my crit curse hits for 7-9k maybe.
You don't hit for 7k against block.

RinaldoGandolphi

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.

There you go QQ sorcs, huge buff.

Its a small start....def will help Sorcs with Shuffle dodge roll spam builds....My Blocked Velicious Cirse hits for 6-7k on live...i'll easily get 10-12k hits out of this next update Combined with Mage's Wrath...i like it....like it alot!

Its a start my Sorc brothers and sisters! its a start!

I have 60k magicka and 3.3k spell damage and my crit curse hits for 7-9k maybe.
You don't hit for 7k against block.

Im talking against non-tank builds. Many Med armor roll builds are pretty squishy and with high amounts of Penetration you can hit them that hard.(As they have a lot of well fitted gear to roll so they have less crit resistance) Never get those kinds of hits against the Black Rose heavy armor sets up I have been seeing lately though. Against an average PVP build with 2k Crit resist you can easily get 4.8 to 5k Curse hits against a blocking target not using Sword and Board as long as they are not wearing heavy armor and don't have huge amounts of Crit resistance.

of course you will never get these numbers against the meta pvp builds of course with high resist and high crit resistance...that statement was meant more for the well-fitted low crit resist roll builds that are squishy outside of dodge roll.

Dracane

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.

There you go QQ sorcs, huge buff.

Its a small start....def will help Sorcs with Shuffle dodge roll spam builds....My Blocked Velicious Cirse hits for 6-7k on live...i'll easily get 10-12k hits out of this next update Combined with Mage's Wrath...i like it....like it alot!

Its a start my Sorc brothers and sisters! its a start!

I have 60k magicka and 3.3k spell damage and my crit curse hits for 7-9k maybe.
You don't hit for 7k against block.

Im talking against non-tank builds. Many Med armor roll builds are pretty squishy and with high amounts of Penetration you can hit them that hard.(As they have a lot of well fitted gear to roll so they have less crit resistance) Never get those kinds of hits against the Black Rose heavy armor sets up I have been seeing lately though. Against an average PVP build with 2k Crit resist you can easily get 4.8 to 5k Curse hits against a blocking target not using Sword and Board as long as they are not wearing heavy armor and don't have huge amounts of Crit resistance.

of course you will never get these numbers against the meta pvp builds of course with high resist and high crit resistance...that statement was meant more for the well-fitted low crit resist roll builds that are squishy outside of dodge roll.

Sounds very unrealistic still.

Sureshawt

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

RinaldoGandolphi

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.

There you go QQ sorcs, huge buff.

Its a small start....def will help Sorcs with Shuffle dodge roll spam builds....My Blocked Velicious Cirse hits for 6-7k on live...i'll easily get 10-12k hits out of this next update Combined with Mage's Wrath...i like it....like it alot!

Its a start my Sorc brothers and sisters! its a start!

I have 60k magicka and 3.3k spell damage and my crit curse hits for 7-9k maybe.
You don't hit for 7k against block.

Im talking against non-tank builds. Many Med armor roll builds are pretty squishy and with high amounts of Penetration you can hit them that hard.(As they have a lot of well fitted gear to roll so they have less crit resistance) Never get those kinds of hits against the Black Rose heavy armor sets up I have been seeing lately though. Against an average PVP build with 2k Crit resist you can easily get 4.8 to 5k Curse hits against a blocking target not using Sword and Board as long as they are not wearing heavy armor and don't have huge amounts of Crit resistance.

of course you will never get these numbers against the meta pvp builds of course with high resist and high crit resistance...that statement was meant more for the well-fitted low crit resist roll builds that are squishy outside of dodge roll.

Sounds very unrealistic still.

Yes these are niche cases...every server has that 1 or 2 guys that run 7 well fitted and are squishy as heck that their only defense is to roll around around rocks dodge everything glass cannon. These are the folks im refering to.

For everyone else your probably looking at 4k blocked, and probably an 8k crit under ideal conditions. these folks im talking about are VERY squishy...like very very very squishy....they are going to be hurt bad by this and the Soul Assault change...they will probably have to give up most of their well fitted.

now that i say this you will probavly run into someone like this soon and be like ahhh....so thats what he meant...of course your Curse will be like a damn nuke going off LOL!

Mulcibur

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

Dracane

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Sureshawt

Deleted

Sureshawt

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

Mustard

Magicka DK's have needed help for a year now already. Good luck!

Dracane

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a drama queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

Sureshawt

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Dracane

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Mulcibur wrote: »

@Dracane

"Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked."

I saw it. My comment was the first on the patchnotes.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stam on the other hand has so much more passive mititgation and they have healing over time. So they have lots of space to go offensive. Shield users either spam them, or they die instantly.

What is this passive mitigation you speak of? I want it

Guess it was only my imagination, that medium armor offers more resistance than light armor

Oh my bad....I guess it must have been the "so much more.." part that threw me or perhaps it was the fact that everyone knows that passive armor mitigation is pretty much useless unless stacking heavy....LOL

You guys really look silly trying to get your still OP class back to over the top OP status again.

I always exaggerate looks more dramatic you know ? I am a dramma queen afterall.

Anyway, they do have more mitigation and it's not to be ignored.
Magicka Sorcerer is the bottom of everything right now. They excel at nothing anymore and have no backbone anymore (which used to be hardened ward, after everything was taken away)

That is odd since I regularly see them on the battlefield tanking 1vX with ease until someone comes along with shield breaker or shattering blows to actually put some pressure on them only to have them streak away unless another sorc can catch them with their own streak. Sorcs still have the strongest shields that effectively give them 100Ks of Hit Points which is hands down the best mitigation in the game. The only difference now is they have to refresh their shields more often. Sorcs also have some of the best burst when they time their combos properly. They also have some of the best mobility in the game with streak.

You guys are not fooling anyone except yourselves

Uhm no. Please, exaggerating is good and such.
But 100k is really too exaggerated. Most Sorcs I see, have 23k if they stack 2 shields.

And that's it, shieldstacking is the only way to survive. Try playing with 1 shield and you will not tank anyone.
It's easy to tank low damage opponents with shields. But when under attack by average or higher dps, shields become the worst survival tool. Because you just can't get rid of the pressure.

Sorcs are 3rd worst when it comes to burst. All stamina builds and magicka nightblades outperform them by far when it comes to this. Only magicka templar is worse with burst, followed by Dk.
Even though Magicka templar could have access to awesome burst, it's just too stupid to use in my opinion.