Bugs and Ninja Nerfing: lightning staff, Fighter's guild, speed, and pets... What else?

Mustard

Solariken wrote: »

Toast_STS wrote: »

It needed a nerf. Not sure how I feel about this yet but lightning staff can hit harder than fire single target and it could do crazy AoE.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yisP67coJGA

And then there's the lag it causes in pvp http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Toast STS/video/21199858

It did NOT need a nerf. Especially not based on this build (which is awesome btw). Builds like this are only possible because there is no diminishing return or soft cap on damage output and so many damage calculations in ESO are prone to crazy runaway multiplicative boost.

It was a bug fix! Wake up already and stop using exploits

smacx250

Cronopoly wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We certainly never intend to purposely not include information in the patch notes. We'll follow up early next week and figure out what the deal here is.

It's all we've got as Magicka Sorc in PVP to reliably get a hit on the target, we'll save getting kills for some future alternate universe. I digress. It only tickles in PVP and definitely is outhealed with Rally/Vigor and has killed no one ever solo. I know it's sad when we have to beg for scraps...

I agree - I don't think it's gotten me a kill ever, but damn, when you can't hit the dodging, rolling, reflecting masses, it sure feels good to do something for its placebo effect!

SienneYviete

Mustard wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Toast_STS wrote: »

It needed a nerf. Not sure how I feel about this yet but lightning staff can hit harder than fire single target and it could do crazy AoE.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yisP67coJGA

And then there's the lag it causes in pvp http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Toast STS/video/21199858

It did NOT need a nerf. Especially not based on this build (which is awesome btw). Builds like this are only possible because there is no diminishing return or soft cap on damage output and so many damage calculations in ESO are prone to crazy runaway multiplicative boost.

It was a bug fix! Wake up already and stop using exploits

No it was never an exploit, get your head out of your a$$

hedna123b14_ESO

Mustard wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Toast_STS wrote: »

It needed a nerf. Not sure how I feel about this yet but lightning staff can hit harder than fire single target and it could do crazy AoE.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yisP67coJGA

And then there's the lag it causes in pvp http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Toast STS/video/21199858

It did NOT need a nerf. Especially not based on this build (which is awesome btw). Builds like this are only possible because there is no diminishing return or soft cap on damage output and so many damage calculations in ESO are prone to crazy runaway multiplicative boost.

It was a bug fix! Wake up already and stop using exploits

You have no idea what you are talking about...

DHale

Yes change it back, please.

Drummerx04

Mustard wrote: »

It was a bug fix! Wake up already and stop using exploits

Everyone, may I present a stam user.

Stam users can stack velidreth+ viper+ fully charged bow heavy + poison injection + [insert gap closer here] + [insert insta cast <= 100 ult physical ult] within a single second in pvp, and they have a malestrom weapon which gives them 3000 weapon damage for the next dot and reach 50k+ dps on one target in pvp. But a lightning staff channel dealing aoe damage is OP and exploiting.

Remember holding left click while a lightning staff is equipped is exploiting.

Drummerx04

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We certainly never intend to purposely not include information in the patch notes. We'll follow up early next week and figure out what the deal here is.

This could mean one of three things really

1. We had no idea this even happened and we will put it back ASAP (good)
2. We forgot to put it in the patch notes, enjoy your nerf, pheasant (bad)
3. We are open to constructive criticism with regards to balance in this game for which you have a recurring subscription (lol)

I guess whichever is the case, I do appreciate the attention and hopefully prompt followup to what will be an insane and crippling nerf to a group of magicka builds. After the 6 second shield thing, I don't want to deal with another hit to my sorc.

Mojmir

Drummerx04 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We certainly never intend to purposely not include information in the patch notes. We'll follow up early next week and figure out what the deal here is.

This could mean one of three things really

1. We had no idea this even happened and we will put it back ASAP (good)
2. We forgot to put it in the patch notes, enjoy your nerf, pheasant (bad)
3. We are open to constructive criticism with regards to balance in this game for which you have a recurring subscription (lol)

I guess whichever is the case, I do appreciate the attention and hopefully prompt followup to what will be an insane and crippling nerf to a group of magicka builds. After the 6 second shield thing, I don't want to deal with another hit to my sorc.

Option 4: damn they're on too us,that's OK it was only a distraction away from crown crates and other stuff.

Dracane

Lightning staff used to work this way for 3 years.
You really think, after 3 years they suddenly figure that it's a bug ?
No ! It was a nerf, a ninja one.

SorataArisugawa

Dracane wrote: »

Lightning staff used to work this way for 3 years.
You really think, after 3 years they suddenly figure that it's a bug ?
No ! It was a nerf, a ninja one.

It was not 3 years that way (because some balance changes of the staff passives), but for a very long time.

Joy_Division

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Wrobel I will try to refrain from any unnecessary name calling but I can't stay silent on this one.

If this is going to stay in the live update then PUT IT IN THE PATCH NOTES please. This is not a bug fix unless it is acknowledged in the patch notes as a bug or otherwise stated by a dev in the forums to be a bug. It is a malicious stealth nerf as previously mentioned in the thread.

The lightning AOE isn't OP. It's a tradeoff like many other builds in this game. Compared to other AOE options it comes with some additional risks/downsides.

1. You cannot move at maximum speed, so moving out of red is more difficult
2. You cannot block during the channel (dangerous AF in pvp)
3. The target can move out of the group and it can be difficult to target an ideal center mob.
4. The radius of the AOE isn't really that big. I would guess about 4-5m.

I think the real question though: Why is this a problem that needed fixing?
Do you get complaints from pvpers? I've never been even close to outright killed by a lightning channel or the splash damagel, and when I do see it on my death recap the tick is for < 1k. I tried using a sharpened lightning with 3k spell damage 40k magicka and it still hit for less than a single tick of vigor every time.

Do you get complaints from pve players? I legitimately cannot imagine ANY pve players complaining that mag dps is too high. Quite literally every single end game pve guild parrots the massive dps superiority of stamina.

You don't want to directly boost magicka dps? Fine. But please stop killing it. Thank you.

It's a problem because it enabled magicka users to be competitive with stam in a few specific PvE instances.

Dracane

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lightning staff used to work this way for 3 years.
You really think, after 3 years they suddenly figure that it's a bug ?
No ! It was a nerf, a ninja one.

It was not 3 years that way (because some balance changes of the staff passives), but for a very long time.

Yes.
I mean, each tick of lightning staff was empowered by things that empower fully charged heavy attacks. Along with this, they nerfed all options (sergeants mail, aether etc)

And in beta and after, lightning staves already dealt 5% damage to nearby enemies.

Toc de Malsvi

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Wrobel I will try to refrain from any unnecessary name calling but I can't stay silent on this one.

If this is going to stay in the live update then PUT IT IN THE PATCH NOTES please. This is not a bug fix unless it is acknowledged in the patch notes as a bug or otherwise stated by a dev in the forums to be a bug. It is a malicious stealth nerf as previously mentioned in the thread.

The lightning AOE isn't OP. It's a tradeoff like many other builds in this game. Compared to other AOE options it comes with some additional risks/downsides.

1. You cannot move at maximum speed, so moving out of red is more difficult
2. You cannot block during the channel (dangerous AF in pvp)
3. The target can move out of the group and it can be difficult to target an ideal center mob.
4. The radius of the AOE isn't really that big. I would guess about 4-5m.

I think the real question though: Why is this a problem that needed fixing?
Do you get complaints from pvpers? I've never been even close to outright killed by a lightning channel or the splash damagel, and when I do see it on my death recap the tick is for < 1k. I tried using a sharpened lightning with 3k spell damage 40k magicka and it still hit for less than a single tick of vigor every time.

Do you get complaints from pve players? I legitimately cannot imagine ANY pve players complaining that mag dps is too high. Quite literally every single end game pve guild parrots the massive dps superiority of stamina.

You don't want to directly boost magicka dps? Fine. But please stop killing it. Thank you.

It's a problem because it enabled magicka users to be competitive with stam in a few specific PvE instances.

Y'all are competitive with stamina, with stamina bow primary builds... We aren't supposed to be competitive with melee either.

cschwingeb14_ESO

When channeling a heavy attack deals more damage than spamming impulse, you know something is wrong. Lightning heavy also allows you to do that ae damage at range, so that's another advantage.

Does magicka in general need help? Yes. I destro in need of improvements? Yes. But allowing the lightning staff heavy to ignore the"fully charged rule" isn't the way to do it.

Drummerx04

Sure, If you set up all of your armor and gear to be a one trick pony, then channeling a heavy attack deals more damage than spamming impulse... but it is worth pointing out that even stam AOE is more than just spamming steel tornado until things are dead.

hedna123b14_ESO

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Wrobel I will try to refrain from any unnecessary name calling but I can't stay silent on this one.

If this is going to stay in the live update then PUT IT IN THE PATCH NOTES please. This is not a bug fix unless it is acknowledged in the patch notes as a bug or otherwise stated by a dev in the forums to be a bug. It is a malicious stealth nerf as previously mentioned in the thread.

The lightning AOE isn't OP. It's a tradeoff like many other builds in this game. Compared to other AOE options it comes with some additional risks/downsides.

1. You cannot move at maximum speed, so moving out of red is more difficult
2. You cannot block during the channel (dangerous AF in pvp)
3. The target can move out of the group and it can be difficult to target an ideal center mob.
4. The radius of the AOE isn't really that big. I would guess about 4-5m.

I think the real question though: Why is this a problem that needed fixing?
Do you get complaints from pvpers? I've never been even close to outright killed by a lightning channel or the splash damagel, and when I do see it on my death recap the tick is for < 1k. I tried using a sharpened lightning with 3k spell damage 40k magicka and it still hit for less than a single tick of vigor every time.

Do you get complaints from pve players? I legitimately cannot imagine ANY pve players complaining that mag dps is too high. Quite literally every single end game pve guild parrots the massive dps superiority of stamina.

You don't want to directly boost magicka dps? Fine. But please stop killing it. Thank you.

It's a problem because it enabled magicka users to be competitive with stam in a few specific PvE instances.

Y'all are competitive with stamina, with stamina bow primary builds... We aren't supposed to be competitive with melee either.

This is incorrect. The notion that melee should do more damage than range because of greater risks only works if those risks are greater...as it stands at the moment there is none or a very small risk increase for being melee, which does not warrant a 10+k dps difference. By the way with the next DLC stam executes I can see top players pulling 50s easily and often times pulling 60's. Magicka will not break 45k.

hedna123b14_ESO

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

When channeling a heavy attack deals more damage than spamming impulse, you know something is wrong. Lightning heavy also allows you to do that ae damage at range, so that's another advantage.

Does magicka in general need help? Yes. I destro in need of improvements? Yes. But allowing the lightning staff heavy to ignore the"fully charged rule" isn't the way to do it.

I don't think you read the previous comments. Yes you can range AoE, but then again you can't block cast so any range attacks will wreck you. Your movement speed is less and you need specific sets to make it do good damage. Stamina this patch has the strongest single target, but magicka had strongest AoE thanks to this build. This allowed for balance within the raid. What is magicka left with if it doesn't have either good single target or good AoE?

RoyJade

Thunder HA are more powerful than Impulse with one 5 cp endgame set and a top-tier weapon with a horrendous rng drop.
But you're right : don't nerf thunder staff, just let it as is current state or get all the benefit at the end of the channel, and boost impulse, his not-great damage, his poor range, his high cost and his nearly useless morphs.

Shadesofkin

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

When channeling a heavy attack deals more damage than spamming impulse, you know something is wrong. Lightning heavy also allows you to do that ae damage at range, so that's another advantage.

Does magicka in general need help? Yes. I destro in need of improvements? Yes. But allowing the lightning staff heavy to ignore the"fully charged rule" isn't the way to do it.

I don't think you read the previous comments. Yes you can range AoE, but then again you can't block cast so any range attacks will wreck you. Your movement speed is less and you need specific sets to make it do good damage. Stamina this patch has the strongest single target, but magicka had strongest AoE thanks to this build. This allowed for balance within the raid. What is magicka left with if it doesn't have either good single target or good AoE?

I keep explaining this to guildmates who use the term "exploit" it's not an exploit its worked this way for a long time, a single build simply took advantage of it.

Toast_STS

So what's the change? The first three ticks are no longer considered heavy attacks? So they aren't buffed by aether like sets or give the AoE pulses? I'm out of town this weekend, so I haven't tried the pts yet. what about resto staff?

hedna123b14_ESO

Toast_STS wrote: »

So what's the change? The first three ticks are no longer considered heavy attacks? So they aren't buffed by aether like sets or give the AoE pulses? I'm out of town this weekend, so I haven't tried the pts yet. what about resto staff?

The change is the AoE splash damage which brought magicka DPS into somewhat useless role is now limited to the last tick of the 3 tick channel versus working off of every tick..

Strider_Roshin

I thought the Lightning staff was just something you used until you got a sharpened Maelstrom inferno staff?

Shadesofkin

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I thought the Lightning staff was just something you used until you got a sharpened Maelstrom inferno staff?

I laughed.

Actually I loved the Nos Mixed Staff DK build. I had a lot of fun with it.

WreckfulAbandon

OP, I suggest changing the title to include something about Lightning Staff so the word about this gets out more.

SirMewser

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

OP, I suggest changing the title to include something about Lightning Staff so the word about this gets out more.

It was originally, I changed the title to be more generic as I wished this discussion to be a compilation of all "nerfs" without change record(s) found on the PTS, I will however change it back.

I still encourage people to post their findings here.
Thank you.

Pinja

Wow so instead of adding something positive to magic, like dual wands, we're going to refine it to be exactly what we want it to be;
-Highly restrained, (In options & stun release)
-Free Ap.

Interpreted by Pinja for Dual Wands.

SleepyTroll

While they get to the bottom of this can they find out whats up with the movement speed nerf from like 3 dlcs ago.

Iyas

SleepyTroll wrote: »

While they get to the bottom of this can they find out whats up with the movement speed nerf from like 3 dlcs ago.

I laughed

Drummerx04

RoyJade wrote: »

Thunder HA are more powerful than Impulse with one 5 cp endgame set and a top-tier weapon with a horrendous rng drop.
But you're right : don't nerf thunder staff, just let it as is current state or get all the benefit at the end of the channel, and boost impulse, his not-great damage, his poor range, his high cost and his nearly useless morphs.

This hits the nail on the head pretty well. Sharpened MA Lightning staff? I've run vMA like 60 times on my magsorc and I have 2 powered ice staves to show for it... and every sharpened stam weapon 3 times.

And good infall gear/jewelry isn't the easiest stuffto come by.

Mayrael

R.I.P. mag sorcs... Frack... When combine it all R.I.P. magica...