Official Discussion Thread for One Tamriel Dungeons

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for dungeons in One Tamriel. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you complete any dungeons in either Normal or Veteran mode?
  • If so, how many times did you die?
  • What level were you, and how many Champion Points did you have?
  • How long did it take you?
  • What was your overall group makeup?
• Did you encounter any issues while running a dungeon or Pledge?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

code65536

Group: magicka Nightblade tank (me), magicka Templar healer, magicka Sorc DD, stamina DK DD. All CP-capped.

Run 1: Vaults of Madness, Veteran

Enemy health is a bit higher than normal, but the difficulty was disappointly low. We activated Hard Mode on the final boss, and did not observe any new mechanics that we hadn't seen before. The boss just had 5.8M health, and that is... it?

Run 2: Spindlecluth II, Veteran

Wanted to compare how this compared to Spindle on Live. It seems everything had almost twice the health as Vet on Live. Why wasn't Vet Vaults buffed to this level of difficulty? It seems a bit inconsistent that Vet means one tier of difficulty for one dungeon and another tier for another dungeon.

BUG REPORT: When we killed the first mini-boss (the zombie guy before Blood Spawn), 3 of us got set items. The 4th member got a purple Gem of Madness--a CR160 ring with no set bonuses. He did not receive any set items.

We killed Blood Spawn and decided to try out another dungeon instead of continuing.

Run 3: Blackheart, Veteran

Again, the difficulty increase here over normal Blackheart on the Live server is quite modest, and it's still easier than Spindle II Vet. The Hard Mode on the final boss simply bumped his health to 2.5M, not even a 1M increase in health (in contrast, Vaults final boss had 5.8M on HM, which was a much bigger increase over the non-HM health). Again, no new mechanics were observed, and the boss went down quite quickly.

Other thoughts:

I'm not sure how I feel about Bronze and Silver keys being converted at the same ratio as Gold keys. I feel like Gold keys should convert at a 2-for-1 ratio, since they do require a bit more effort to get than the Silver keys.

I also love that treasure chests inside the dungeons can now drop set items. Makes them actually worth opening now!

Doctordarkspawn

Group: Me, (Templar tank) And three DPS (Two DK"s and a magicka sorc. Stamina DK's.) All at cap, or near it.

Dungeon: Direfrost Keep Vet. Was not pledge.

Deaths: One or two. We ran this without a healer and when the DPS got overzealous they got put down, hard, in seconds.

Length: Took us a good half hour, 20 minutes.

So we couldn't do these blindfolded, one of our DPS actually died after geting overeager to engage without me there. Keep in mind, we ran this without a healer. That said, there were deaths, and we didn't burn through these things in the blink of an eye. We actually had to pay attention to mechanics (Primitive as they were, but hey ***) and the group we formed was a pug. So.

All and all, I'm happy with the dungeon difficulty I experienced. I'm not a hardcore player, and for the guy like me who likes to pug these day after day, I could see myself queueing for these. They dont break the difficulty bank, and they didn't need to to keep us on our toes. It was refreshing and I think it hits that sweet spot between the difficulties of the DLC, and the base game back when it was new.

Preyfar

I really think that the dungeon names should be changed. Instead of "Wayrest Sewers 1 and 2" can we have "Deception in the Dark (Wayrest Sewers) and "No Second Chances (Wayrest Sewers)"? Name them based on the quests that accompany the quests. Wayrest Sewers 2 just feels so... bland.

AJTC5000

Preyfar wrote: »

I really think that the dungeon names should be changed. Instead of "Wayrest Sewers 1 and 2" can we have "Deception in the Dark (Wayrest Sewers) and "No Second Chances (Wayrest Sewers)"? Name them based on the quests that accompany the quests. Wayrest Sewers 2 just feels so... bland.

They do sound cooler, but I can see myself remembering nWS1, nWS2, vWS1 and vWS2 much better.

RoyJade

Preyfar wrote: »

I really think that the dungeon names should be changed. Instead of "Wayrest Sewers 1 and 2" can we have "Deception in the Dark (Wayrest Sewers) and "No Second Chances (Wayrest Sewers)"? Name them based on the quests that accompany the quests. Wayrest Sewers 2 just feels so... bland.

They also could tename WS2 : Wayrest Sewer : the return of the dead.

ajwest927

Preyfar wrote: »

I really think that the dungeon names should be changed. Instead of "Wayrest Sewers 1 and 2" can we have "Deception in the Dark (Wayrest Sewers) and "No Second Chances (Wayrest Sewers)"? Name them based on the quests that accompany the quests. Wayrest Sewers 2 just feels so... bland.

This way is easier to to find group in the chat box.

E.G. need a healer for vet WS 2

ArtOfShred

Spindleclutch II: I've tried a few of the other former Vet only dungeons on normal and so far haven't found any mechanics to be particularly difficult, however Enervating Seal used by Praxin Doaure is a bit insane to deal with for a SOLO stamina player. Unless I have almost full magicka and react and cleanse it immediately (meaning I need purge slotted or need to be a templar) I'm going to be out of luck as far as having any resources for the fight. This isn't so much difficult (I can just spam heavy attacks with Crit surge or Rally up to survive) as it is exceptionally annoying and unnecessary for a normal dungeon mechanic. Perhaps look into playing around with the values on this ability. Alternatively normal dungeons could be made more difficult and far more difficult to solo but I doubt that's the intended design considering the lack of difficulty overall currently.

deleted201022-005645

I'm in the middle of running a bunch of updated dungeons, and I have to say I'm enjoying the refreshing increase of difficulty to all of the dungeons' veteran modes. So far the group I have been running with (3 guildies and alternating with various pugs for a 4th member) has completed the veteran hardmode versions of Direfrost Keep, Elden Hollow II, and Volenfell.

Composition:
Dragonknight tank, templar healer, sorcerer DD, various class 4th member DD using template characters. Other than templates the group is all either at or near CP cap.

Direfrost Keep:
The bosses all had an increase in difficulty without making them too difficult. Mechanics that are intended to instantly kill, or nearly kill, actually do require players to pay attention and not get destroyed. The hardmode version felt like it was too long of a fight since the boss heals for hundreds of thousands of hp per second while locking a player in place. Our group took over 16 minutes to kill the boss, whittling away at her health in between healing phases and resurrecting people that were caught in the frosty explosion around her. Instead of being 'hard' mode it felt more like it was being forcibly dragged out by mechanics. We felt like we were missing some key mechanic to prevent the boss from healing so much at a time but were unable to find anything having that effect.
This 50-minute dungeon completion had numerous deaths to the area of effect abilities around Drodda and her apprentice, but otherwise had very few deaths.

Elden Hollow II:
This dungeon felt very much like its current state on the live server. Enemies have more health and deal more damage, but with an experienced group there was very little challenge to this dungeon. We completed this dungeon in around 30 minutes with few deaths. It was a little bit disappointing that we were still able to ignore the nova tendrils and focus all dps on the boss, but the increased health of the boss made the fight take significantly longer than the current live version nonetheless.

Volenfell:
Other than increased health and damage of all mobs in the dungeon, it didn't feel like there were many differences between the veteran version and the current live version. However, Quintus never picked up his flame staff and switched from melee to range and simply summoned the gargoyle when his health dropped near execute range. Our group activated hardmode for the pledge by reading the Scroll of Glorious Battle but did not receive the hardmode completion achievement, even though we did receive two keys when turning in the pledge quest. Overall this dungeon took around 30 minutes to complete with only one death.

olsborg

Drops in dungeons should not be BOP

Lalaeith

Darkshades vet:

We ran this with at first 2 , then 3 people, 2 sorc dps, one temp healer, no tank. It was more difficult than just the scaled up normal version, I enjoyed that. We went through it fairly smoothly, wiped once on last boss because we were all mag based and he had one attack that oneshot us if not dodged and one group member couldn't rez people because he had no soulgems.

One thing to be noticed: After we died, even though we rezed next to the scroll, he charged right at us again. No chance to read the scroll on second try. That kind of behaviour is ok in normal dungeons but in this situation bosses should wait patiently for players to read whatever is laying around, especially if it affects dungeon difficulty.

Overall the difficulty seemed ok, hard mode is hard to judge because we could not activate it again. There probably is some room to further increase difficulty. We had hardly any issues with just 3 after all.


Direfrost vet:

A good experience. We were a full group at that point and it felt balanced. There were some mechanics to be payed attention to, especially on the last boss, so in my opinion this dungoen is in a pretty good state. If anything, normal mobs and not-meant-to-onehit boss attacks could still take a good buff.

Kaspy

Elden Hollow 2 normal:

We ran it with 2 of us, 1 NB + 1 Sorc DD's, templates (300 cp).

A few deaths, mostly on Murklight since not standing in the light (or not moving out fast enough) during dark phase seems to kill instantly now.

We did not time our run but it was probably about 20-25 minutes.

What I find peculiar is that while mini bosses gave us set pieces, the 3 'main' bosses did not. This seems like a weird discrapancy to me that mini bosses are more rewarding than main bosses.

NewBlacksmurf

Keep the difficulty where it is, but can you spend some significant time on grouping tools

Only did one but vet seems doable and not frustrating although I heal so I'm sure the dps with cp400+ thinks it's a breeze but me being under CP200 on PTS would be tough.

Don't frustrate ppl basing any dungeons over cp 160 as that's the gear level of VR16

Ashtaris

Preyfar wrote: »

I really think that the dungeon names should be changed. Instead of "Wayrest Sewers 1 and 2" can we have "Deception in the Dark (Wayrest Sewers) and "No Second Chances (Wayrest Sewers)"? Name them based on the quests that accompany the quests. Wayrest Sewers 2 just feels so... bland.

I agree. I think they did a terrible job in naming the new dungeon versions and definitely need to come up with something more lore friendly.

UrQuan

Group: 3-man group of non-template characters. Healer: CP 391 Templar using resto staff/destro staff. Tank: CP 475 Sorcerer using sword & board. DPS: CP 561 Templar using destro staff.

Dungeon: Crypt of Hearts 1 on vet mode, activating the scroll to do the final fight on hard mode.

Deaths: 2 - both in the final fight, and both because we were paying more attention to voice chatting and to Twitch chat than to the fight.

Length of Time: About an hour including breaks to refill beverages. Note: we were completely screwing around and not taking this run seriously.

Feedback: This was incredibly easy for "veteran" difficulty. We did all kinds of things that you shouldn't really do in vet dungeons (standing in red instead of getting out of it, the healer barely used any heals, we were often splitting up and having one or two of us go ahead and pull trash mobs without the rest, we were spending more time chatting and goofing off than paying attention to the dungeon, we didn't have our bars set up very well, etc).

If anyone cares to watch the run to see what I'm talking about it's here: https://www.twitch.tv/miss_bizz/v/87261558 starting at about 2:12:00 or so.

Savos_Saren

Please update Embershield and Sunderflame in City of Ash. I see that you updated Burning Spell Weave! Thanks!!! And will these items now drop with jewelry?

code65536

There are a few problems I see with dungeon difficulty:

1. Inconsistency of what "Veteran" means. You have something like Vet Vaults of Madness that's barely any harder than Normal VoM and much easier than Vet ICP. I really would like to see all the dungeons have a consistent difficulty across the board. This wasn't possible before because it would lock casual players out of story content, as the sequel dungeons had no Normal mode. The addition of Normal versions of the sequel dungeons is an opportunity to buff up the difficulty of the Veteran versions. And the addition of the Veteran versions of the original-story dungeons is an opportunity offer a consistent level of challenge for that content as well. This update was a chance to finally bring about difficulty consistency, and it failed.
2. Normal dungeons become irrelevant if a Veteran version exists that's only slightly more difficult and offers much better rewards. Normal mode exists for a reason. What's the point of having difficulty modes if the Veteran mode is barely any different from Normal? There seems to be a lot of stigma surrounding Normal, but there shouldn't be, and a too-narrow gap between Normal and Veteran is what makes people turn their noses up at the prospect of doing Normal.
3. Hard Mode is a joke. On Blackheart, it added around 800K or so health to him. No new mechanics. Just a bit extra health to burn through. The HM health increase in Vaults of Madness is greater, but it doesn't change that the fight is still a standard stack-n-whack with an occasional moving in or out of bad.

@ZOS_Finn

Doctordarkspawn

At the end of the day I dont see any problem with the veteran dungeon difficulty on the PTS currently. The people who want the really hard stuff now have their own questgiver, and the people who pug this day after day like me are fine with how it is.

I specifically brought people who wanted a higher level of difficulty than what is currently on live, and they were also satisfied. I urge you to leave it like it is.

DocFrost72

benjamindjb wrote: »

I'm in the middle of running a bunch of updated dungeons, and I have to say I'm enjoying the refreshing increase of difficulty to all of the dungeons' veteran modes. So far the group I have been running with (3 guildies and alternating with various pugs for a 4th member) has completed the veteran hardmode versions of Direfrost Keep, Elden Hollow II, and Volenfell.

Composition:
Dragonknight tank, templar healer, sorcerer DD, various class 4th member DD using template characters. Other than templates the group is all either at or near CP cap.

Direfrost Keep:
The bosses all had an increase in difficulty without making them too difficult. Mechanics that are intended to instantly kill, or nearly kill, actually do require players to pay attention and not get destroyed. The hardmode version felt like it was too long of a fight since the boss heals for hundreds of thousands of hp per second while locking a player in place. Our group took over 16 minutes to kill the boss, whittling away at her health in between healing phases and resurrecting people that were caught in the frosty explosion around her. Instead of being 'hard' mode it felt more like it was being forcibly dragged out by mechanics. We felt like we were missing some key mechanic to prevent the boss from healing so much at a time but were unable to find anything having that effect.
This 50-minute dungeon completion had numerous deaths to the area of effect abilities around Drodda and her apprentice, but otherwise had very few deaths.

Elden Hollow II:
This dungeon felt very much like its current state on the live server. Enemies have more health and deal more damage, but with an experienced group there was very little challenge to this dungeon. We completed this dungeon in around 30 minutes with few deaths. It was a little bit disappointing that we were still able to ignore the nova tendrils and focus all dps on the boss, but the increased health of the boss made the fight take significantly longer than the current live version nonetheless.

Volenfell:
Other than increased health and damage of all mobs in the dungeon, it didn't feel like there were many differences between the veteran version and the current live version. However, Quintus never picked up his flame staff and switched from melee to range and simply summoned the gargoyle when his health dropped near execute range. Our group activated hardmode for the pledge by reading the Scroll of Glorious Battle but did not receive the hardmode completion achievement, even though we did receive two keys when turning in the pledge quest. Overall this dungeon took around 30 minutes to complete with only one death.

CC break the channel, assuming you mean drodda (sp) the last boss of direfrost? If you CC break (basically bash) when she grabs you it stops her channel, and her heal.

TheValkyn

Did you complete any dungeons in either Normal or Veteran mode?
My guess is it was Normal but I still got an undaunted key so it was cool.

If so, how many times did you die?
I died once or twice learning some one shot mechanics

What level were you, and how many Champion Points did you have?
CP300 template

How long did it take you?
About 30 minutes?

What was your overall group makeup?
All By Myself
https://youtu.be/uD51cdLbZJc

Did you encounter any issues while running a dungeon or Pledge?
No

Do you have any other general feedback?
Keep these normal ones soloable or if there's any scaling happening for solo players keep it in play. I dislike grouping in this particular MMO. Was it supposed to be soloable? I had fun though and it was by far the most fun PvE experience besides the end of the main storyline.

deleted201022-005645

DocFrost72 wrote: »

benjamindjb wrote: »

I'm in the middle of running a bunch of updated dungeons, and I have to say I'm enjoying the refreshing increase of difficulty to all of the dungeons' veteran modes. So far the group I have been running with (3 guildies and alternating with various pugs for a 4th member) has completed the veteran hardmode versions of Direfrost Keep, Elden Hollow II, and Volenfell.

Composition:
Dragonknight tank, templar healer, sorcerer DD, various class 4th member DD using template characters. Other than templates the group is all either at or near CP cap.

Direfrost Keep:
The bosses all had an increase in difficulty without making them too difficult. Mechanics that are intended to instantly kill, or nearly kill, actually do require players to pay attention and not get destroyed. The hardmode version felt like it was too long of a fight since the boss heals for hundreds of thousands of hp per second while locking a player in place. Our group took over 16 minutes to kill the boss, whittling away at her health in between healing phases and resurrecting people that were caught in the frosty explosion around her. Instead of being 'hard' mode it felt more like it was being forcibly dragged out by mechanics. We felt like we were missing some key mechanic to prevent the boss from healing so much at a time but were unable to find anything having that effect.
This 50-minute dungeon completion had numerous deaths to the area of effect abilities around Drodda and her apprentice, but otherwise had very few deaths.

Elden Hollow II:
This dungeon felt very much like its current state on the live server. Enemies have more health and deal more damage, but with an experienced group there was very little challenge to this dungeon. We completed this dungeon in around 30 minutes with few deaths. It was a little bit disappointing that we were still able to ignore the nova tendrils and focus all dps on the boss, but the increased health of the boss made the fight take significantly longer than the current live version nonetheless.

Volenfell:
Other than increased health and damage of all mobs in the dungeon, it didn't feel like there were many differences between the veteran version and the current live version. However, Quintus never picked up his flame staff and switched from melee to range and simply summoned the gargoyle when his health dropped near execute range. Our group activated hardmode for the pledge by reading the Scroll of Glorious Battle but did not receive the hardmode completion achievement, even though we did receive two keys when turning in the pledge quest. Overall this dungeon took around 30 minutes to complete with only one death.

CC break the channel, assuming you mean drodda (sp) the last boss of direfrost? If you CC break (basically bash) when she grabs you it stops her channel, and her heal.

We were, of course, aware that you can interrupt the heal. Given the frequency and rate at which she heals (made even worse if someone doesn't cc break right away) our group was trying anything we could think of to prevent the boss from healing, reduce the healing taken, or whatever it would take to avoid the healing mechanic. Which, granted, took a lot of time away from actually applying damage to the boss; but even with decent group DPS this fight just took too long.

Mojmir

So just about every normal dungeon is soloable,can't remember which one that required another person to open a door.direfrost?
Tried a couple of vet versions,exactly what I expected,lazy development by adding hps to bosses only.if your going to do something, don't half-ass it.

JR_Returns

We completed three veteran dungeons yesterday with no major problems.

Vaults of Madness
No major problems encountered, completed the dungeon on hardmode.

Selene's Web
Again no major problems until the last boss which we attempted on hardmode. A lot more adds and Selene had very high health. The main problem was her bear attach which hit for 60k damage and couldn't be blocked. It could be dodged but all the adds made it difficult to see it coming at times. We completed on normal veteran mode without problem (see note below).

Blackheart Haven
No problems except the last boss. Hardmode just means he has much more health, more adds and he keeps one of you as a skeleton at all times. We tried hardmode a couple of times and then finished on normal veteran mode.

* BUG * In the passage after the "Roost Mother" one of our pets decided to see what was like above the passage roof and you know what animals are like where one goes the others follow. The adds then decided the pets represented a major danger and went after them as well. We could see parts of their legs hanging down through the roof but couldn't interact with them, so we just had to move on and hope that they would catch up later.

Selene's Web and Blackheart Haven Hardmode End Boss
We could have completed these dungeons on hardmode if we had really tried but we gave up because the fights were boring. This applies more to Blackheart than Selene's but it's still there in Selene's. It's just dance round kill the adds and wear down the boss. Nothing interesting, no real skill, just grinding. I'd hoped for something new and exciting, personally I find it a bit of a let down. I'd have preferred a couple of the dungeons done well over all the existing dungeons made into longer grinds.

Seri

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Did you complete any dungeons in either Normal or Veteran mode?
  • If so, how many times did you die?
  • What level were you, and how many Champion Points did you have?
  • How long did it take you?
  • What was your overall group makeup?

We went in to Vet VoM (I'd be curious how many people are hitting this one :P) and Vet CoH 2, out of curiosity mostly. 3x CP531 (or whatever the new cap is now), Magblade, Magsorc and Magplar (in heavy with a taunt and puncturing sweeps).

Vet VoM we didn't wipe at all (almost disappointing), and the few deaths we had were mostly silly and goofing around (I finally successfully over-jumped the long drop near the end \o/ ). Vet CoH 2 our only wipe was at second-last boss at the 'rollback' phase as if we overlapped circles but there wasn't one there.

Vet VoM is at least fun again as a duo or trio (for us) but still not by any means hard. CoH seemed like things hit a bit softer than live (but admittedly I was in heavy rather than light) and I could even jab through the lich crystals at the end which were doing maybe 2k dmg tops? I almost wonder whether the group tool was lying when it said Vet and I kinda want to go do live VCoH or re-check PTS again later, but VVoM was definitely slower to kill bosses than current live.

I know there's gotta be a balance between lower CP and less experienced players but would still like to see a 10-20% buff perhaps.

Subsequent edit after waking up more: must have been vet because we got helms from it.

Seri

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

At the end of the day I dont see any problem with the veteran dungeon difficulty on the PTS currently. The people who want the really hard stuff now have their own questgiver, and the people who pug this day after day like me are fine with how it is.

Is that the DLC questgiver? In which case, can they re-buff WGT and ICP to pre-DB levels?

UrQuan

Seri wrote: »

We went in to Vet VoM (I'd be curious how many people are hitting this one :P)

That's my favorite of the normal dungeons, so it's almost definitely going to be the first of the new "vet" ones that I do on Live...

Dubhliam

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Group: Me, (Templar tank) And three DPS (Two DK"s and a magicka sorc. Stamina DK's.) All at cap, or near it.

Dungeon: Direfrost Keep Vet. Was not pledge.

Deaths: One or two. We ran this without a healer and when the DPS got overzealous they got put down, hard, in seconds.

Length: Took us a good half hour, 20 minutes.

So we couldn't do these blindfolded, one of our DPS actually died after geting overeager to engage without me there. Keep in mind, we ran this without a healer. That said, there were deaths, and we didn't burn through these things in the blink of an eye. We actually had to pay attention to mechanics (Primitive as they were, but hey ***) and the group we formed was a pug. So.

All and all, I'm happy with the dungeon difficulty I experienced. I'm not a hardcore player, and for the guy like me who likes to pug these day after day, I could see myself queueing for these. They dont break the difficulty bank, and they didn't need to to keep us on our toes. It was refreshing and I think it hits that sweet spot between the difficulties of the DLC, and the base game back when it was new.

Doing dungeons in PUGs and blazing through veteran dungeons without a healer are two amazingly different things.

Contraptions

I'm glad the new vet dungeons aren't like the DLC vet dungeons which are horribly tedious. I don't want to do the equivalent of vICP three times a day for pledges. Ugh.

Although I do wish you would include some new mechanics for the bosses at least? Simply increasing health and damage isn't exactly challenging at all. It's lazy and cheap just like vMA.

A small tweak to existing mechanics or something would be sufficient. For example, Warchief Ozozai in normal FG has a daedric blast where he places an AOE on a person that blows up after a while. The player moves away from others to minimise damage. For the vet version of Ozozai, perhaps now he places AOEs on all four players, and players separate from each other to not blow each other up. Simple tweak, but makes it such that other players have to engage with the boss more.

Osteos

Did you complete any dungeons in either Normal or Veteran mode?

Vet Vaults of Madness.
If so, how many times did you die?

2 died on final boss because they had never seen the doom mechanic that you have to stay in.

What level were you, and how many Champion Points did you have?

Im max level with 643 champion pts, other were max as well I believe.

How long did it take you?

We would have had the speed run but someone had to afk for quite awhile.

What was your overall group makeup?

DK tank, DK stamina dps, NB magicka dps, templar healer

Did you encounter any issues while running a dungeon or Pledge?

no issues.

Do you have any other general feedback?

The dungeon was way to easy. Didnt even feel like a vet dungeon. Also the Titan boss and the Flesh Atronach's fire lines seemed to do less damage on vet then they do on normal live version. Our tank even stood in the titan fire breath line without losing much health. We did get to see the final boss dome mechanic though he only ever did the safe one not the one with ghosts.

Overall, it was too easy. The difficulty needs to be bumped up a few notches.

static_recharge

Do you have any other general feedback?

• Not fond of having to "rediscover" a dungeon just because a version 1 and 2 were added. None of the dungeons on the map allowed for me to port directly into v2 until I first walked there and "discovered" it again.
• When we Q'd for Vet Banished Cells 2 (to get around having to discover it, again) it put us in Darkshade Caverns v1. We tried this again just to make sure the right dungeon was selected and yet again we were put in DC v1. Ended up having to walk to the darn thing anyway.

Dubhliam

I'll just repost this from another thread:

I wrote: »

This is a visual representation of how I think the difficulty curve should look:


The big question is: what makes a dungeon hard?
Mechanics.
The Glirion veteran dungeons currently don't fit into the above chart, simply because they lack meaningful mechanics.
Making the boss have 30kk health does not make the fight challenging, it just makes the fight tedious.

These new veteran versions of dungeons are a perfect opportunity to fill the gap in difficulty we have from vanilla vet dungeon and DLC dungeon difficulty.

My suggestion would be to introduce a new, dungeon specific mechanic on the veteran Hard Mode of the last boss in each of those dungeons.
Also, make the regular mechanics (must block heavy attacks, must interrupt channels, don't stand in red etc.) meaningful throughout veteran Glirion dungeons.
F.e. a light armor damage dealer with 17k health should not be able to survive the first boss' heavy attack without blocking.