Did you complete any dungeons in either Normal or Veteran mode?
My guess is it was Normal but I still got an undaunted key so it was cool.
If so, how many times did you die?
I died once or twice learning some one shot mechanics
What level were you, and how many Champion Points did you have?
CP300 template
How long did it take you?
About 30 minutes?
What was your overall group makeup?
All By Myself
https://youtu.be/uD51cdLbZJc
Did you encounter any issues while running a dungeon or Pledge?
No
Do you have any other general feedback?
Keep these normal ones soloable or if there's any scaling happening for solo players keep it in play. I dislike grouping in this particular MMO. Was it supposed to be soloable? I had fun though and it was by far the most fun PvE experience besides the end of the main storyline.
Group: 3-man group of non-template characters. Healer: CP 391 Templar using resto staff/destro staff. Tank: CP 475 Sorcerer using sword & board. DPS: CP 561 Templar using destro staff.
Dungeon: Crypt of Hearts 1 on vet mode, activating the scroll to do the final fight on hard mode.
Deaths: 2 - both in the final fight, and both because we were paying more attention to voice chatting and to Twitch chat than to the fight.
Length of Time: About an hour including breaks to refill beverages. Note: we were completely screwing around and not taking this run seriously.
Feedback: This was incredibly easy for "veteran" difficulty. We did all kinds of things that you shouldn't really do in vet dungeons (standing in red instead of getting out of it, the healer barely used any heals, we were often splitting up and having one or two of us go ahead and pull trash mobs without the rest, we were spending more time chatting and goofing off than paying attention to the dungeon, we didn't have our bars set up very well, etc).
If anyone cares to watch the run to see what I'm talking about it's here: https://www.twitch.tv/miss_bizz/v/87261558 starting at about 2:12:00 or so.
There are a few problems I see with dungeon difficulty:
- Inconsistency of what "Veteran" means. You have something like Vet Vaults of Madness that's barely any harder than Normal VoM and much easier than Vet ICP. I really would like to see all the dungeons have a consistent difficulty across the board. This wasn't possible before because it would lock casual players out of story content, as the sequel dungeons had no Normal mode. The addition of Normal versions of the sequel dungeons is an opportunity to buff up the difficulty of the Veteran versions. And the addition of the Veteran versions of the original-story dungeons is an opportunity offer a consistent level of challenge for that content as well. This update was a chance to finally bring about difficulty consistency, and it failed.
- Normal dungeons become irrelevant if a Veteran version exists that's only slightly more difficult and offers much better rewards. Normal mode exists for a reason. What's the point of having difficulty modes if the Veteran mode is barely any different from Normal? There seems to be a lot of stigma surrounding Normal, but there shouldn't be, and a too-narrow gap between Normal and Veteran is what makes people turn their noses up at the prospect of doing Normal.
- Hard Mode is a joke. On Blackheart, it added around 800K or so health to him. No new mechanics. Just a bit extra health to burn through. The HM health increase in Vaults of Madness is greater, but it doesn't change that the fight is still a standard stack-n-whack with an occasional moving in or out of bad.
@ZOS_Finn
Did you by any chance watch the video? Because that's the real proof of how easy the dungeons are... I feel like without watching the video you don't really get a sense of just how much we were screwing around, goofing off, not paying attention to the fights, and really not trying.vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »Group: 3-man group of non-template characters. Healer: CP 391 Templar using resto staff/destro staff. Tank: CP 475 Sorcerer using sword & board. DPS: CP 561 Templar using destro staff.
Dungeon: Crypt of Hearts 1 on vet mode, activating the scroll to do the final fight on hard mode.
Deaths: 2 - both in the final fight, and both because we were paying more attention to voice chatting and to Twitch chat than to the fight.
Length of Time: About an hour including breaks to refill beverages. Note: we were completely screwing around and not taking this run seriously.
Feedback: This was incredibly easy for "veteran" difficulty. We did all kinds of things that you shouldn't really do in vet dungeons (standing in red instead of getting out of it, the healer barely used any heals, we were often splitting up and having one or two of us go ahead and pull trash mobs without the rest, we were spending more time chatting and goofing off than paying attention to the dungeon, we didn't have our bars set up very well, etc).
If anyone cares to watch the run to see what I'm talking about it's here: https://www.twitch.tv/miss_bizz/v/87261558 starting at about 2:12:00 or so.
I think this is enough proof of how easy those new vets dungeons are.Its more like a longer normal dungeon because of the health increase.
Dev 1:Hey lets make a vet version of all normal dungeons.
Dev 2: Sounds good,but hey that will take a long time to make plus we cant sell it as a DLC.
Dev 1: Ok we will just add the word Veteran to it and thats it.And that will be our own little secret.
Dev 3:Hey guys! I bring coffee! ( trip on wire and accidentally push "more health to enemies" button)
Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC) Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC) Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP) Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD) J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD) |
Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC) Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP) Manut Redguard Temp (AD) Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP) Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD) |
Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP) Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC) Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP) Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC) Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp |
There seems to be a lot of stigma surrounding Normal, but there shouldn't be, and a too-narrow gap between Normal and Veteran is what makes people turn their noses up at the prospect of doing Normal.
There seems to be a lot of stigma surrounding Normal, but there shouldn't be, and a too-narrow gap between Normal and Veteran is what makes people turn their noses up at the prospect of doing Normal.
Heh - I remember back when IC just launched and everyone was doing normal WGT/ICP for the pledges. With the next update, going normal you won't even be penalised (from a key perspective) for doing so.
Is that the DLC questgiver? In which case, can they re-buff WGT and ICP to pre-DB levels?Doctordarkspawn wrote: »At the end of the day I dont see any problem with the veteran dungeon difficulty on the PTS currently. The people who want the really hard stuff now have their own questgiver, and the people who pug this day after day like me are fine with how it is.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Group: Me, (Templar tank) And three DPS (Two DK"s and a magicka sorc. Stamina DK's.) All at cap, or near it.
Dungeon: Direfrost Keep Vet. Was not pledge.
Deaths: One or two. We ran this without a healer and when the DPS got overzealous they got put down, hard, in seconds.
Length: Took us a good half hour, 20 minutes.
So we couldn't do these blindfolded, one of our DPS actually died after geting overeager to engage without me there. Keep in mind, we ran this without a healer. That said, there were deaths, and we didn't burn through these things in the blink of an eye. We actually had to pay attention to mechanics (Primitive as they were, but hey ***) and the group we formed was a pug. So.
All and all, I'm happy with the dungeon difficulty I experienced. I'm not a hardcore player, and for the guy like me who likes to pug these day after day, I could see myself queueing for these. They dont break the difficulty bank, and they didn't need to to keep us on our toes. It was refreshing and I think it hits that sweet spot between the difficulties of the DLC, and the base game back when it was new.
Doing dungeons in PUGs and blazing through veteran dungeons without a healer are two amazingly different things.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Group: Me, (Templar tank) And three DPS (Two DK"s and a magicka sorc. Stamina DK's.) All at cap, or near it.
Dungeon: Direfrost Keep Vet. Was not pledge.
Deaths: One or two. We ran this without a healer and when the DPS got overzealous they got put down, hard, in seconds.
Length: Took us a good half hour, 20 minutes.
So we couldn't do these blindfolded, one of our DPS actually died after geting overeager to engage without me there. Keep in mind, we ran this without a healer. That said, there were deaths, and we didn't burn through these things in the blink of an eye. We actually had to pay attention to mechanics (Primitive as they were, but hey ***) and the group we formed was a pug. So.
All and all, I'm happy with the dungeon difficulty I experienced. I'm not a hardcore player, and for the guy like me who likes to pug these day after day, I could see myself queueing for these. They dont break the difficulty bank, and they didn't need to to keep us on our toes. It was refreshing and I think it hits that sweet spot between the difficulties of the DLC, and the base game back when it was new.
Doing dungeons in PUGs and blazing through veteran dungeons without a healer are two amazingly different things.
No their not. I do that regularly, actually, I run a templar tank and instead of running the traditional team comp I just run three DPS. It's really not that uncommon for a templar tank, we had ZOS sponsored guides on builds able to do that pre craglorn. Pre ICP.
And yes, all the people I get are from zone. People I have either never met or done dungeons with once or twice. Their not two different things, far from it in fact.
I noticed there are new loading screen graphics for when you enter the Veteran mode of a dungeon (the Veteran shield is overlayed on top of the loading screen image). Two associated questions:Thanks!
- Would you consider adding (Normal) and (Veteran) to the loading screen text as well, for clarity?
- Is there any chance of seeing new artwork for the original dungeons' "Story II" load screens in the future?
Agreed. The image doesn't need to be altered at all if it's in the text, and if it's in the text it's much easier to understand.Personally, I'm not a fan of the shield overlay. The loading screen drawings are very beautiful, and the overlay just ruins them and makes them look, well, hideous.I noticed there are new loading screen graphics for when you enter the Veteran mode of a dungeon (the Veteran shield is overlayed on top of the loading screen image). Two associated questions:Thanks!
- Would you consider adding (Normal) and (Veteran) to the loading screen text as well, for clarity?
- Is there any chance of seeing new artwork for the original dungeons' "Story II" load screens in the future?
Also, it's not clear to everyone what that shield means.
Wouldn't it be much easier to just add text? It's clear, unambiguous, and gets right to the point all the while leaving those images unmolested. The title text at the bottom, instead of saying "Volenfell" could instead say "Volenfell (Veteran)".
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Why are you messing up with Trial gear, Aethar or Ophidian set no longer gives minor slayer?
Why why?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/291062/craglorn-trial-set-no-minor-slayer-with-one-tamerial/p1?new=1
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Why are you messing up with Trial gear, Aethar or Ophidian set no longer gives minor slayer?
Why why?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/291062/craglorn-trial-set-no-minor-slayer-with-one-tamerial/p1?new=1
Hi @ZOS_Finn that's actually the level of difficulty I was hoping for with the new vet versions of the part I dungeons - something either at or slightly below the difficulty of the old vet Banished Cells, Fungal Grotto, etc. It doesn't seem to be there, though. It feels like it's the same difficulty as the non-vet version, but with additional health for the bosses (maybe the mobs too, I didn't notice). It felt like the incoming damage was too low (from the bosses in particular), and you could just stand in the red with no worries. I don't want these dungeons to be as challenging as the vet versions of the DLC dungeons - ideally I want them to be a stepping stone to the other vet dungeons.Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC) Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC) Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP) Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD) J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD) |
Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC) Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP) Manut Redguard Temp (AD) Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP) Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD) |
Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP) Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC) Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP) Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC) Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp |
Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Why are you messing up with Trial gear, Aethar or Ophidian set no longer gives minor slayer?
Why why?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/291062/craglorn-trial-set-no-minor-slayer-with-one-tamerial/p1?new=1
You're refering to a different set... the set that gives minor slayer is called "infallible mage" and it still drops in trials, the set you are linking is called "wise mage" and is an older set that is replacing the BoE sets that used to drop in trials. It never had the minor slayer bonus
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....
I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..
Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....
I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..
Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..
And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....
I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..
Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..
And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.
I'd be OK with the first part, but I don't agree with the part that I bolded. IMO a group that can comfortably complete non-vet Banished Cells I (but not faceroll it) should be able to go into vet Banished Cells I and find it challenging, but doable with some effort.Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!
Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....
I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..
Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..
And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.
My suggestion is to to make veteran hard mode (after reading book etc..) more Harder..
Should not touch Veteran mode difficulty.
Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC) Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC) Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP) Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD) J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD) |
Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC) Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP) Manut Redguard Temp (AD) Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP) Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD) |
Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP) Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC) Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP) Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC) Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp |
Hey Folks,
Thought I would pop in here and update.
With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).
When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.
Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!