What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

dsalter

No, don't ever add these into the game.

i'v been doing my part and telling people ingame about the possible upcoming disease that is lock boxes, and where to find the proof it was announced. do your part folks, i am sick and tired of cheap market tactics killing my games, SICK TO THE GUT OF IT!

if ESO goes the way of the gamble i'm done with MMO's, all of them are milking gamers hard and it's sickening, even B2P games like CS:GO, Overwatch, etc are suckling on this diseased lockbox feature. it may please some, and it may get you a fast buck but it'll kill off any loyal fans in the long run.

i wont even play overwatch cause blizzard started introducing "gold buying" via tokens, it won't be long till they add lockboxes themselves to WoW.

sick and tired of companies murdering my only real fun in life anymore. games are my passion, playing them with others is how i deal with depression, but when games go greedy it just reminds me of how horrible the world is, especially when it drives my friends away.

Roechacca

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I'm moving to Iceland so I can just go outside and play Skyrim. I can't even wrap my head around people in the States anymore. The whole argument of so what if they go an give us these, I won't use them is a complete atrocity of intelligence. So why would you want them wasting time on it? Get with the program people.

#RealTalk

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

seebra wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Sylance9 wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

This thread been up less than 2 days already has 14.5k views and nearly 1000 replys the majority being negative toward cash shop loot boxes............pretty much sums it up

Except that the 1000 replies are basically just a handful of people that just keep arguing over and over trying to force their opinion on others. Also, 364 people voting against it really isnt a majority of the entirety of the player base...

GG zenimax! Looking forward to opening my first box!

If people do not post on forums, it doesnt mean they automatically support all ZOS' decisions.
Even making a forum account here can be kinda tricky (I didnt even get an invitation mail and had to ask the support to make my forum account), so many people just dont bother about this.

same i didn't get forum invitation mail too:P

same as well is there a pattern?

seebra

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

seebra wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Sylance9 wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

This thread been up less than 2 days already has 14.5k views and nearly 1000 replys the majority being negative toward cash shop loot boxes............pretty much sums it up

Except that the 1000 replies are basically just a handful of people that just keep arguing over and over trying to force their opinion on others. Also, 364 people voting against it really isnt a majority of the entirety of the player base...

GG zenimax! Looking forward to opening my first box!

If people do not post on forums, it doesnt mean they automatically support all ZOS' decisions.
Even making a forum account here can be kinda tricky (I didnt even get an invitation mail and had to ask the support to make my forum account), so many people just dont bother about this.

same i didn't get forum invitation mail too:P

same as well is there a pattern?

probably

Korah_Eaglecry

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

The thing is they dont really care about the people leaving. Theyll have new replacements in no time that will have absolutely no problem with this.

This is the unfortunate reality of gaming right now. All you can do is pack up your bags and find another game.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

If people do not post on forums, it doesnt mean they automatically support all ZOS' decisions.
Even making a forum account here can be kinda tricky (I didnt even get an invitation mail and had to ask the support to make my forum account), so many people just dont bother about this.

same here, I had been playing a while before I decided to join the Forum only finding out I needed an' invitation' to do so, which I had to contact support for.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Looks like they do not bother to send forum invitations preemptively anymore.

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The thing is they dont really care about the people leaving. Theyll have new replacements in no time that will have absolutely no problem with this.

This is the unfortunate reality of gaming right now. All you can do is pack up your bags and find another game.

Been researching MMOs all day trying to find controllers friendly ones Any suggestions?

seebra

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Looks like they do not bother to send forum invitations preemptively anymore.

yep

rhapsodious

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

Except that there's no reason to believe that forum voters aren't a representative sample of players.

So, full disclosure: I took stats years ago, and I am fully aware that what I am about to say may be flat-out wrong and if it is I would love to be corrected. Honestly.

But doesn't this poll suffer from a couple of issues when taking what it says at face value?

For starters, there's no neutral option. There's "yes/I like" and "no/I dislike". There's no "meh, whatever" option. I'm actually in the "meh, whatever" camp, but I had to pick "yes" on the poll because there was no neutral option.

Second, aren't people who have a negative opinion more likely to vote/post? Someone who actually has a stats degree please tell me the name of the bias but I'm thinking of the same phenomenon where people who had a bad experience are more likely to leave a review than people who had a good experience - article on that so we're clear.

In other words, I think there's reason to believe that people who are adamantly opposed to the idea of crates would be more likely to vote than people who don't care, or people who like the idea. Also consider as a whole that, well, the forums and the people who post on them tend to be pretty negative. Not saying that everyone's a negative Nancy and paradoxically hates the game they appear to play so much, but just look at the front page of GD and see how many of the topic titles alone contain a negative sentiment.

But, again, if I am talking out of my derriere, someone is free to correct me. But, personally, I think the poll/avenue of response collection is flawed to begin with, and isn't quite an accurate representation of how the player base as a whole would feel.

plus zos has made their minds up anyway most likely sooooooo *price is right trombone*

ManwithBeard9

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

I can even give a number about how many people play lottery in Germany at all - those were 31.5% of the population who bought at least one ticket throughout the year 2011. So the absolute majority of people do not play in a lottery at all. That is what I call "normal" people - some of those who buy a ticket can be normal as well, if they play like once around their birthday or something like this - some people do that like this. But most do not gamble - this is just normal to not gamble.

Good to know the German superiority complex is still alive and well. These boxes aren't gambling. If they were, no one in the state of New York could participate. It is a lottery system, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to participate. And frankly, you're assumption of anyone that lines to take little risk with their own money as "abnormal" is disgusting and abhorrent.

Korah_Eaglecry

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Cazzy wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The thing is they dont really care about the people leaving. Theyll have new replacements in no time that will have absolutely no problem with this.

This is the unfortunate reality of gaming right now. All you can do is pack up your bags and find another game.

Been researching MMOs all day trying to find controllers friendly ones Any suggestions?

Right now? Not a clue. All the ones Ive come from have had these crap lockboxes in them. This was the first one that seemed to be doing well without them. But apparently some Corporate Stoog felt differently about ZOS bottomline. Because here we are.

Kintonic

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I would have no problem with random loot boxes, as long as there is a secondary way to obtain everything from them in game. Whether this is a direct sale from the crown store at some point( limited or otherwise) or some other means such as a special vendor, I don't feel that there should be exclusive items behind a gambling mechanic.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can even give a number about how many people play lottery in Germany at all - those were 31.5% of the population who bought at least one ticket throughout the year 2011. So the absolute majority of people do not play in a lottery at all. That is what I call "normal" people - some of those who buy a ticket can be normal as well, if they play like once around their birthday or something like this - some people do that like this. But most do not gamble - this is just normal to not gamble.

Good to know the German superiority complex is still alive and well. These boxes aren't gambling. If they were, no one in the state of New York could participate. It is a lottery system, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to participate. And frankly, you're assumption of anyone that lines to take little risk with their own money as "abnormal" is disgusting and abhorrent.

Does not look like the majority is gambling to me - this has nothing to do with german superiority at all, I choose german lottery, because it is state driven and there are no private ones in parallel, so this could give a view on how the population in a whole relates to lottery - in the USA are so many different systems, that a statement like this would be difficult to make just from one number - but the special case in Germany in relation to Lotto is allowing for it - so that is why, not superiority.

Another thing is that lotto numbers and quotes and so are broadcasted in national TV news in Germany - so pretty much everyone knows about lotto, it is straight into their face, when they watch TV - but still the majority is not participating in this lottery. Then half of the money invested into lottery tickets is given back to the players - the other 50% go to the state - and with it indirectly to the people again - so there is not even this hurdle that one would make a private company big by playing Lotto - still, the majority is not gambling in Lotto.

Edit: then again I never said "abnormal" that is your wording - normal is what is typical of a majority of entities - people in this case - and looks like that my claim is supported by what I said above in my posts - I gave reason for why I choose german lotto for this, it is just very special and filters out a lot of things, which could hinder people playing - but nevertheless the majority is not participating in lottery.

Garldeen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The thing is they dont really care about the people leaving. Theyll have new replacements in no time that will have absolutely no problem with this.

This is the unfortunate reality of gaming right now. All you can do is pack up your bags and find another game.

Been researching MMOs all day trying to find controllers friendly ones Any suggestions?

If you don't mind a sub, ffxiv does. Can play same character on PC and console, good game just very little voice acting

Delpi

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

So why call it "random loot boxes" instead of "random consumables boxes" ? :P

Garldeen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can even give a number about how many people play lottery in Germany at all - those were 31.5% of the population who bought at least one ticket throughout the year 2011. So the absolute majority of people do not play in a lottery at all. That is what I call "normal" people - some of those who buy a ticket can be normal as well, if they play like once around their birthday or something like this - some people do that like this. But most do not gamble - this is just normal to not gamble.

Good to know the German superiority complex is still alive and well. These boxes aren't gambling. If they were, no one in the state of New York could participate. It is a lottery system, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to participate. And frankly, you're assumption of anyone that lines to take little risk with their own money as "abnormal" is disgusting and abhorrent.

Does not look like the majority is gambling to me - this has nothing to do with german superiority at all, I choose german lottery, because it is state driven and there are no private ones in parallel, so this could give a view on how the population in a whole relates to lottery - in the USA are so many different systems, that a statement like this would be difficult to make just from one number - but the special case in Germany in relation to Lotto is allowing for it - so that is why, not superiority.

Another thing is that lotto numbers and quotes and so are broadcasted in national TV news in Germany - so pretty much everyone knows about lotto, it is straight into their face, when they watch TV - but still the majority is not participating in this lottery. Then half of the money invested into lottery tickets is given back to the players - the other 50% go to the state - and with it indirectly to the people again - so there is not even this hurdle that one would make a private company big by playing Lotto - still, the majority is not gambling in Lotto.

At least with a state lottery you know your chance of winning exactly before you buy the ticket. It will be one in x million but at least you know. Likewise, you know the odds on getting a lower level prize. With this system you have no idea the odds on getting the item you want so how can you decide if it is fair.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

rhapsodious wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Except that there's no reason to believe that forum voters aren't a representative sample of players.

So, full disclosure: I took stats years ago, and I am fully aware that what I am about to say may be flat-out wrong and if it is I would love to be corrected. Honestly.

But doesn't this poll suffer from a couple of issues when taking what it says at face value?

For starters, there's no neutral option. There's "yes/I like" and "no/I dislike". There's no "meh, whatever" option. I'm actually in the "meh, whatever" camp, but I had to pick "yes" on the poll because there was no neutral option.

Second, aren't people who have a negative opinion more likely to vote/post? Someone who actually has a stats degree please tell me the name of the bias but I'm thinking of the same phenomenon where people who had a bad experience are more likely to leave a review than people who had a good experience - article on that so we're clear.

In other words, I think there's reason to believe that people who are adamantly opposed to the idea of crates would be more likely to vote than people who don't care, or people who like the idea. Also consider as a whole that, well, the forums and the people who post on them tend to be pretty negative. Not saying that everyone's a negative Nancy and paradoxically hates the game they appear to play so much, but just look at the front page of GD and see how many of the topic titles alone contain a negative sentiment.

But, again, if I am talking out of my derriere, someone is free to correct me. But, personally, I think the poll/avenue of response collection is flawed to begin with, and isn't quite an accurate representation of how the player base as a whole would feel.

plus zos has made their minds up anyway most likely sooooooo *price is right trombone*

You bring up some excellent ideas, but I do have counters. Regarding poll options, I agree that there should be an "I don't care" option, but the first option, the one you chose, is an adequate substitution. Note that the other positive options include more neutral language like "I would not mind". I believe this gives the overall effect of any positive response serving the needs of both those who are enticed and those who are merely complicit.

I'll temporarily assume you are correct regarding negative experiences being more likely to garner feedback, but without a hard numerical cross-analysis catered to this specific instance it's not a very useful bit of insight. The effect could be of any size. It could be a 10% bias. It could be a 0.01% bias. I'm not content to factor it in as anything but a vague, barely-informative qualifier to the clear and overwhelming majority.

Even those who have responded positively aren't necessarily down for buying gambling boxes. At least from my own comment sampling, I've only seen a single person say "I can't wait to buy this", and every other comment from the positive/complicit group is just some variation of "let people do the thing if they want to". I normally am all about consumer choice, except in this case someone else's choice is directly affecting the relationship I have with my service provider. I didn't buy 30k crowns hoping to gamble them away, I bought 30k crowns because there were some great items uncovered in a recent data mine and because I generally had faith that ZOS would keep coming out with great cosmetics, convenience items, etc. The entire nature of my transactions are going to be changed by these gambling boxes, though. I can no longer buy the things I want like a normal person, and instead have to be complicit with child gambling if I want some of the best-looking costumes and mounts.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

wonkydog wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can even give a number about how many people play lottery in Germany at all - those were 31.5% of the population who bought at least one ticket throughout the year 2011. So the absolute majority of people do not play in a lottery at all. That is what I call "normal" people - some of those who buy a ticket can be normal as well, if they play like once around their birthday or something like this - some people do that like this. But most do not gamble - this is just normal to not gamble.

Good to know the German superiority complex is still alive and well. These boxes aren't gambling. If they were, no one in the state of New York could participate. It is a lottery system, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to participate. And frankly, you're assumption of anyone that lines to take little risk with their own money as "abnormal" is disgusting and abhorrent.

Does not look like the majority is gambling to me - this has nothing to do with german superiority at all, I choose german lottery, because it is state driven and there are no private ones in parallel, so this could give a view on how the population in a whole relates to lottery - in the USA are so many different systems, that a statement like this would be difficult to make just from one number - but the special case in Germany in relation to Lotto is allowing for it - so that is why, not superiority.

Another thing is that lotto numbers and quotes and so are broadcasted in national TV news in Germany - so pretty much everyone knows about lotto, it is straight into their face, when they watch TV - but still the majority is not participating in this lottery. Then half of the money invested into lottery tickets is given back to the players - the other 50% go to the state - and with it indirectly to the people again - so there is not even this hurdle that one would make a private company big by playing Lotto - still, the majority is not gambling in Lotto.

At least with a state lottery you know your chance of winning exactly before you buy the ticket. It will be one in x million but at least you know. Likewise, you know the odds on getting a lower level prize. With this system you have no idea the odds on getting the item you want so how can you decide if it is fair.

Yes, actually it is very comfortably made in Germany, you can even choose a couple of systems to not have to fill out larger blocks on the ticket. It is very fair overall and the results are produced in a TV show, you can actually see it happening as well. Lotto is so much in the face of people, but nevertheless the majority does not even buy a single ticket per year. Well, the chance to actually win the jack pot is a bit less than 1 to 140 million - so it is not really a whole lot - and the chance to get anything back is iIrc about 4% - so the majority will anyway not win anything - but that is how such a system is - many have to loose money, so that a few can win more.

rhapsodious

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: then again I never said "abnormal" that is your wording - normal is what is typical of a majority of entities - people in this case - and looks like that my claim is supported by what I said above in my posts - I gave reason for why I choose german lotto for this, it is just very special and filters out a lot of things, which could hinder people playing - but nevertheless the majority is not participating in lottery.

FYI, "normal" is a pretty loaded word. You evidently didn't mean it that way, but to derail just a tad - when it comes to the topic of, say, sexuality, being straight is "normal". Which would then make being not straight "abnormal", which carries with it a negative connotation. I hope that makes more sense.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Delpi wrote: »

So why call it "random loot boxes" instead of "random consumables boxes" ? :P

Same reason why they don't call them 'cash grab' ^^

many with obvious previous experience with cash shop RNG loot boxes already know how these work and what their real intentions are, What they call them is irrelevant most know what they are, and those in denial or simply don't know will find out the hard way and then realise, as most of us experienced already did.

Oh and there is no such thing as 'random' when it is controlled by a program

Panda_iMunch

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

So from this post, I can gather is that the world will end when the loot box will be introduced

rhapsodious

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

[snip for brevity, but good counterpoints!]

I normally am all about consumer choice, except in this case someone else's choice is directly affecting the relationship I have with my service provider. I didn't buy 30k crowns hoping to gamble them away, I bought 30k crowns because there were some great items uncovered in a recent data mine and because I generally had faith that ZOS would keep coming out with great cosmetics, convenience items, etc. The entire nature of my transactions are going to be changed by these gambling boxes, though. I can no longer buy the things I want like a normal person, and instead have to be complicit with child gambling if I want some of the best-looking costumes and mounts.

Right, I can see where you're coming from there. The wavering faith, I think, is the crux of the issue here... the fear that this will lead to a slippery slope. I'm waiting for the red wolf mount, myself, because it's the closest thing to a red fox I'll probably ever get. I, perhaps optimistically, am assuming that they will continue to offer their limited stock and the crates will just be a grab bag to get stuff you already missed - but yes, the possibility/intent of putting exclusive items in these boxes with no other way to get them concerns me.

I guess, since it's pretty clear that ZOS intends to carry through with this, that we can just hope that they do it in a non-infuriating way. Especially since they have been doing a better job with communication and changing positions, lately... I think most of us just want marketing to not have an iron grip on the direction of the game.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

rhapsodious wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: then again I never said "abnormal" that is your wording - normal is what is typical of a majority of entities - people in this case - and looks like that my claim is supported by what I said above in my posts - I gave reason for why I choose german lotto for this, it is just very special and filters out a lot of things, which could hinder people playing - but nevertheless the majority is not participating in lottery.

FYI, "normal" is a pretty loaded word. You evidently didn't mean it that way, but to derail just a tad - when it comes to the topic of, say, sexuality, being straight is "normal". Which would then make being not straight "abnormal", which carries with it a negative connotation. I hope that makes more sense.

I just never said "abnormal" - to me it was about what is typical normal behavior of people when it comes to gambling - because I was claiming that a normal person is not interested into gambling - and so I had to find out, what the typical behavior of a population is, where the lottery is well known and is not biased by a lot of other things, which could play a role in the decision making to participate or not - and I needed it in one single number - and so I chose german Lotto - to find the typical behavior of a population in regards to gambling - might not be valid for every country, but it paints the picture and is evidence for what I claimed - and it is as well my personal experience as a German.

Rohamad_Ali

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

So from this post, I can gather is that the world will end when the loot box will be introduced

And from your post I can gather this is the reason Aliens will not land and share their technology with Us .

Samphaa

No, don't ever add these into the game.

AlienSlof wrote: »

I'm utterly disgusted and disappointed in Zeni. I won't be buying any.

I've been disappointed for months

milkbox

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

I am strangely addicted to this thread. I keep coming back to read every post.

It makes me wonder what dinner-time conversation @ZOS_GinaBruno 's house is like...

Garldeen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

milkbox wrote: »

I am strangely addicted to this thread. I keep coming back to read every post.

It makes me wonder what dinner-time conversation is like @ZOS_GinaBruno 's house is like...

Same, well other than the unhealthy interest in what other people are having for dinner . I'll be gone when support confirm the process to close my account, but until then I'm drawn to this thread, even knowing that this change will not affect me

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

@rhapsodious, they've confirmed that there will be exclusive stuff in the crates. Probably the Wild Hunt and Attronach mounts to start, but who knows what else down the line.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

rhapsodious wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

[snip for brevity, but good counterpoints!]

I normally am all about consumer choice, except in this case someone else's choice is directly affecting the relationship I have with my service provider. I didn't buy 30k crowns hoping to gamble them away, I bought 30k crowns because there were some great items uncovered in a recent data mine and because I generally had faith that ZOS would keep coming out with great cosmetics, convenience items, etc. The entire nature of my transactions are going to be changed by these gambling boxes, though. I can no longer buy the things I want like a normal person, and instead have to be complicit with child gambling if I want some of the best-looking costumes and mounts.

Right, I can see where you're coming from there. The wavering faith, I think, is the crux of the issue here... the fear that this will lead to a slippery slope. I'm waiting for the red wolf mount, myself, because it's the closest thing to a red fox I'll probably ever get. I, perhaps optimistically, am assuming that they will continue to offer their limited stock and the crates will just be a grab bag to get stuff you already missed - but yes, the possibility/intent of putting exclusive items in these boxes with no other way to get them concerns me.

I guess, since it's pretty clear that ZOS intends to carry through with this, that we can just hope that they do it in a non-infuriating way. Especially since they have been doing a better job with communication and changing positions, lately... I think most of us just want marketing to not have an iron grip on the direction of the game.

They confirmed that there will be exclusive items only available in the gambling boxes in the same paragraph they announced the gambling boxes, so no luck there. Even if it were just about offering old items again, there's absolutely no reason to implement it using gambling boxes. They could simply do rolling sales. Or have an "oldie but goodie" tab of the Crown Store. Or even just not participate in an artificial scarcity economy to begin with. Instead, they're dressing up a gambling service with all the trimmings of previous player requests, but with -incredibly- poor odds of actually fulfilling player requests.

Keep in mind, a typical player requesting an old item to come back is thinking of a small selection of the previous stock. They do not consider anything else previously offered to have actual value. Yet it's all going to be up for grabs in the gambling boxes. That means players will have an incredibly poor chance of getting the item they want, while slowly filling up their collections tab with items that they find completely useless. If that's supposed to be delivering on player requests, then we need a new dang postal service.

When it comes down to it, there is no reason to accept gambling as a valid service for Zenimax to offer. We don't need to consign ourselves to anything like "but they seem intent on doing it". They've listened to player feedback before, and I believe it's possible to keep this filth out of the game if we're persistent in our message.