What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Esquire1980g_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Enodoc wrote: »

I don't think I understand why people are threatening to quit over this. If you don't like the idea of loot boxes, don't buy them. Your gameplay will not be affected by you not having something you didn't have before.

I'm not "threatening", I did. 21 days left.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

Korah_Eaglecry

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

deleted.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Enodoc wrote: »

I don't think I understand why people are threatening to quit over this. If you don't like the idea of loot boxes, don't buy them. Your gameplay will not be affected by you not having something you didn't have before.

@Enodoc, I sorta glossed over this earlier... actually, I discussed it in detail in an earlier post, but when I was responding to you, I didn't really focus on it.

Lucky bags make a lot of money. From an RoI perspective they're incredibly attractive. But, this also means, when you're committing developer resources to a project, they get a disproportionate amount of attention.

Implementing Lucky Bags actually makes it less likely that glitches like the group finder being completely bjorked will get fixed. If there's a problem with the bags? Yeah, that we need to get someone on right now. The finder can wait.

Similarly, it distorts development of future content. If you're saying, "well, I can put these resources into a product that will get us 25 bucks from a lot of players once, or I can put a tiny fraction of that into a piece of content that a handful of players will, literally, through thousands of dollars at us for, each," then you can see why priorities distort.

Lucky Bags can easily pull in more than any other income revenue stream for an MMO. In turn, they become the tail that wags the dog. For some people, that doesn't matter. They can keep on chugging away. But, for those of us who actually liked ESO, it's entering an era when the game we knew and loved is in serious jeopardy.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Preyfar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf, @Dromede is mistaken. There's actual video out of Matt Firor's presentation that contradicts the initial bullet points that got posted to Reddit. Now, it's possible that Firor mispoke... and if that's the case, he needs to clarify it. But, right now? No, there's going to be stuff unique to the bags; unavailable elsewhere.

Matt Firor called it "super special mounts" what is exclusive to RNG boxes - it's cash grab behind a gambling wall.

Falling and games of chance only really apply if people don't win something. Players have nothing to lose from these as they're guaranteed to win something. Like the blind grab bags stores sell or the Kinder Eggs popular in Germany. It's not illegal... it's just a bad idea with the current implementation.

There are no blind grab bag sales in germany - this would not state what kind of items you get with this bag. With those kinder eggs it is clear what is in every such egg, regardless which one - beside the sweet edible part there is always a toy of low value in that egg - it has to be low value, otherwise it would be against another law, which regulates incentives and encouragements to buy the main product - it is all regulated by laws in Germany.

Panda_iMunch

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

luen79rwb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Aaand they announced this. Total dissapointment

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

this old reddit post shows pretty well how ZOS is dealing with the truth - be surprised how "honest" they are:

Matt Firor - ESO "Game Director"
Aug 23, 2013
When asked if the game had anything "extra" beyond a subscription, Mr. Firor said:
"There won't be anything like 'bonus points' but we'll have a shop to buy kinda fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that. But it's not part of the core game, anything in the core game is included in the subscription price."

and a little later

Paul Sage - ESO "Creative Director"
Sep 7, 2013
"Sage confirms that Matt Firor simply picked his words poorly when he mentioned there would be a cash shop on top of the subscription fee. Sage says that Firor was talking about things like name changes – things you cannot normally do in the course of your gameplay. He even states that to his knowledge there is no cash shop."

Now what is this telling you about their ways to deal with the truth?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

They also made it very clear that they would never implement lucky bags, and yet, here we are. I understand their commitment to not including any non-cosmetic items to the crown store. I also have to question their veracity on the subject, as they've just gone back on another major promise.

Panda_iMunch

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

They did lie about never introducing lucky bags, however. So... that's not looking too good for them right now.

Korah_Eaglecry

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

STO didnt have all the items that made it P2W in the beginning either. It still developed into a Lockbox Heavy Development cycle that continues to churn out far better gear for the Lockboxes than what you can find in game.

Kalante

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

It would be good source of revenue out of those people that are obsessed with skin cosmetics just look at csgo. Now if they put end game gear content on these crown store boxes that would be straight up PAY TO WIN. I am on yes for skins or nothing at all. Just don't put end game gear content or there will be some serious riots both in game and the forums to a point you will lose MANY loyal players and you do not want to lose loyal players in a way that they feel cheated on. That would be the worst thing to do.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

STO didnt have all the items that made it P2W in the beginning either. It still developed into a Lockbox Heavy Development cycle that continues to churn out far better gear for the Lockboxes than what you can find in game.

The hilarious thing was right up front, they insisted the lockboxes wouldn't be pay to win... and immediately stuck the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship in as the first prize.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

Take a look at my edit - I have posted an example of how they dealt with the truth in the past - I could dig up more, there is a bunch of lies all over the place - but I am just tired to listen to their lies anymore.

Panda_iMunch

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

They did lie about never introducing lucky bags, however. So... that's not looking too good for them right now.

A link would be lovely here, but that doesn't mean they will go back on the promise on not putting in P2W items in the crown store. They haven't gone back on it yet and if trends tell us anything is that they'll continue to do so. It would be a total s**t storm if they did otherwise.

Artis

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Dracane wrote: »

I see no problem with this.
But keep in mind, there are players who simply could not play during that time due to personal problems. It's not fair for them either. I myself wasn't able to play when the elven hero costume was for sale, even though I wouldn't have hesitated a second to buy it.

So let's unlock those items for a week or so for those accounts which didn't log in during the time when those items were being sold, not make them available to everyone = making them not exclusive when it was promised they would be and lots of people bought them planning to have something rare that most player won't have when most players who could buy the items too will quit.

Korah_Eaglecry

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I think its funny that people are taking it at face value when the alternative is right in their faces. If they want people to buy items that are no longer avaliable. Why not put them back into the store periodically? Why the unnecessary gamblebox?

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I think its funny that people are taking it at face value when the alternative is right in their faces. If they want people to buy items that are no longer avaliable. Why not put them back into the store periodically? Why the unnecessary gamblebox?

Because people will pay multiple times more for the chance to get the item - and it will be even harder for them to ever get it, if they did not buy a lot of items from the crown store so far - and people will just realize that when it is too late, they spent a small fortune on getting what they want and will most likely not get it before they will run out of money - this is why.

It is a truely disgusting method to trick people into gambling - which pretty much no chance - like in pretty much all lottery like gambles. Just that in decent lottery you get to know how low your chances are - here they will be a secret and you can bet they are extremely low to grab as much money as they possibly can - this is so utterly disgusting, so blatantly awful.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

They did lie about never introducing lucky bags, however. So... that's not looking too good for them right now.

A link would be lovely here, but that doesn't mean they will go back on the promise on not putting in P2W items in the crown store. They haven't gone back on it yet and if trends tell us anything is that they'll continue to do so. It would be a total s**t storm if they did otherwise.

They already have, repeatedly. I don't have a link at hand, because I don't remember exactly where I read the interview saying lockboxes weren't a thing. I kind of think it was on Massively, but *shrugs.* It would have been back in 2014, in the aftermath of the Tamriel Unlimited announcement, if you want to hunt it up for yourself.

EDIT: It was a Reddit AUA back in early 2015.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

Take a look at my edit - I have posted an example of how they dealt with the truth in the past - I could dig up more, there is a bunch of lies all over the place - but I am just tired to listen to their lies anymore.

This is not new seen this before many many times, from well known games like Tera, Archeage, Wildstar, Neverwinter, Blade and Soul and many many more, ALL have said exact same things in the past ALL have done the exact opposite ALL have ended up with these originally stated as 'cosmetic only' RNG boxes containing important game changing materials and consumables ............ALL also have servers in Germany........and ALL continue to do so

Its nothing new Welcome to western online game publishers and their 'Shady' practices.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

elvenmad wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

Take a look at my edit - I have posted an example of how they dealt with the truth in the past - I could dig up more, there is a bunch of lies all over the place - but I am just tired to listen to their lies anymore.

This is not new seen this before many many times, from well known games like Tera, Archeage, Wildstar, Neverwinter, Blade and Soul and many many more, ALL have said exact same things in the past ALL have done the exact opposite ALL have ended up with these originally stated as 'cosmetic only' RNG boxes containing important game changing materials and consumables ............ALL also have servers in Germany........and ALL continue to do so

Its nothing new Welcome to western online game publishers and their 'Shady' practices.

just tell me which ones have servers in germany - i would be interested to make this a case which shows that foreign companies intrude our country with law breaking games - a list of such gaming companies, who run servers in germany and have this kind of thing would be nice.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

Take a look at my edit - I have posted an example of how they dealt with the truth in the past - I could dig up more, there is a bunch of lies all over the place - but I am just tired to listen to their lies anymore.

This is not new seen this before many many times, from well known games like Tera, Archeage, Wildstar, Neverwinter, Blade and Soul and many many more, ALL have said exact same things in the past ALL have done the exact opposite ALL have ended up with these originally stated as 'cosmetic only' RNG boxes containing important game changing materials and consumables ............ALL also have servers in Germany........and ALL continue to do so

Its nothing new Welcome to western online game publishers and their 'Shady' practices.

just tell me which ones have servers in germany - i would be interested to make this a case which shows that foreign companies intrude our country with law breaking games - a list of such gaming companies, who run servers in germany and have this kind of thing would be nice.

those named above do for a start and I know 100's more online games do, all located in Frankfurt, they dont actually own the servers they lease them.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

this old reddit post shows pretty well how ZOS is dealing with the truth - be surprised how "honest" they are:

Matt Firor - ESO "Game Director"
Aug 23, 2013
When asked if the game had anything "extra" beyond a subscription, Mr. Firor said:
"There won't be anything like 'bonus points' but we'll have a shop to buy kinda fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that. But it's not part of the core game, anything in the core game is included in the subscription price."

and a little later

Paul Sage - ESO "Creative Director"
Sep 7, 2013
"Sage confirms that Matt Firor simply picked his words poorly when he mentioned there would be a cash shop on top of the subscription fee. Sage says that Firor was talking about things like name changes – things you cannot normally do in the course of your gameplay. He even states that to his knowledge there is no cash shop."

Now what is this telling you about their ways to deal with the truth?

In fairness, the "no lockboxes" thing might have actually been Sage. I don't remember.

Rohamad_Ali

No, don't ever add these into the game.

It's about protecting the integrity of the game and holding ZOS's feet to the fire for once for saying when the crown store came , not to worry , they don't like lottery loot bags either and there would be none of this . It's time for the deception to STOP . You can only go back on your word so many times before people no longer believing in you .

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

elvenmad wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

Take a look at my edit - I have posted an example of how they dealt with the truth in the past - I could dig up more, there is a bunch of lies all over the place - but I am just tired to listen to their lies anymore.

This is not new seen this before many many times, from well known games like Tera, Archeage, Wildstar, Neverwinter, Blade and Soul and many many more, ALL have said exact same things in the past ALL have done the exact opposite ALL have ended up with these originally stated as 'cosmetic only' RNG boxes containing important game changing materials and consumables ............ALL also have servers in Germany........and ALL continue to do so

Its nothing new Welcome to western online game publishers and their 'Shady' practices.

just tell me which ones have servers in germany - i would be interested to make this a case which shows that foreign companies intrude our country with law breaking games - a list of such gaming companies, who run servers in germany and have this kind of thing would be nice.

those named above do for a start and I know 100's more online games do, all located in Frankfurt, they dont actually own the servers they lease them.

Archeage EU is in Amsterdam for example.

karmamule

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I don't have an immediate adverse reaction to the idea of lockboxes, it'll be the details of the implementation that determine how I'll feel. If it's relatively lowkey and I'm not always getting bombarded with messages to BUY KEYS or OMG LOOK AT THIS then I'll be fine with it. If it starts bugging me left and right, or announcing "So-and-so just won the great purple dragon riding mount!!!" in the middle of the screen then I'll be really annoyed.

Rohamad_Ali

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali Great minds think alike! I just posted the definition too

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

I see your point if a game had a P2W model like that where the odds are fairly easy to see are stacked against the player. The issue? Elder Scrolls Online is not STO and has no items that offer a person with the best edge in the game. To bring the issues of those games to this one is pretty misleading as they have made it clear they will not put in a P2W item in the crown store and still to this day have not done so. What item in the crown store is a must have in order to top the charts? None from what I can tell.

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

this old reddit post shows pretty well how ZOS is dealing with the truth - be surprised how "honest" they are:

Matt Firor - ESO "Game Director"
Aug 23, 2013
When asked if the game had anything "extra" beyond a subscription, Mr. Firor said:
"There won't be anything like 'bonus points' but we'll have a shop to buy kinda fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that. But it's not part of the core game, anything in the core game is included in the subscription price."

and a little later

Paul Sage - ESO "Creative Director"
Sep 7, 2013
"Sage confirms that Matt Firor simply picked his words poorly when he mentioned there would be a cash shop on top of the subscription fee. Sage says that Firor was talking about things like name changes – things you cannot normally do in the course of your gameplay. He even states that to his knowledge there is no cash shop."

Now what is this telling you about their ways to deal with the truth?

In fairness, the "no lockboxes" thing might have actually been Sage. I don't remember.

I meant something else - that what Matt Firor said in 2013 - doesn't that sound a lot like what we have now?- And why was Sage so after hiding this - I think that was planned in the long term already, and Matt pushed it out by accident - just like this "RNG box exclusive" thing might be something, what should not have been said yet - and he did nevertheless.

I can just not trust onto their word anymore - this is the problem with people who lie on a regular basis - you cannot believe in anything they say anymore.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

What really drives me nuts here is... it means 2017 will be a bumper year for ESO... financially. But, we'll get nothing of value. All that cool content we're seeing down the pipeline? Yeah, that's just going to end up being delayed because it became more profitable to focus on the *** lucky bags. And 2018? Yeah, the game will be dead. Gone. There will still be newbies wandering through, wondering how you could possibly get those 9 trait sets, but it's going to decimate the community.

Here's the really messed up thing, ESO's community is not designed to take this kind of a hit. The decentralization means that if it starts loosing people anywhere, it will snowball fast. We saw this back at launch, when people were yelling about how the game was dead because half their guild rosters were empty.

This single thing will do far more damage than it looks like it will.