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What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As long as they don't put limited subscriber items like the first senche mount and the mask of cheerful slaughter in them I am fine with it.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Altercator✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Bouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »"Although we understand some are upset"
I ran this through my cracker jack decoder ring and here is what came out....We know some of you don't like this, but the people who handle the money here don't care.
I'm sure most of the devs and team don't like this direction as it gives the game they have worked so hard on a negative perception, but the money people who have no worked the long hours or invested their lives in the game don't care what they think either.
It's just bad business.
And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
That's a bleak defense.5 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Let's look at this from the perspective of an average consumer. What point is there to buy the lockboxes? People sure as heck aren't going to be buying them for the consumable items, any more than they're already not buying the consumable item packs on the Crown Store. So really the only thing they're gambling on is the potential value of mounts, pets, and costumes.
Research into gambling and the ways to increase customers' willingness to bid has been going on for decades. One prominent finding is that customers will increase their bid whenever they have higher confidence in their decision. The Crown Gems system is clearly an attempt to increase player confidence in the value of their purchase, but let's examine if that has any logical foundation. The only way to get Crown Gems is if you find something in the lockbox that's already in your collection. It has already been stated that anything not in your collection instead gets added to your collection, no chance for gems. So how often will an average customer receive gems?
Well, you aren't going to get a pet/mount/costume from every lockbox, that's for darn sure. An average customer is also not likely to own very many Crown Store items, especially if they're gambling on things already taken off the store. An average customer is also unlikely to want very many things that could be contained in the boxes. Maybe they want a single Senche or Guar type, but certainly not every single mount or pet available. Yet the undesirable items will indeed be polluting the odds for getting the desired item. So you're very likely to begin filling your collections tab with items you consider of no value, and you will only get gems under the incredibly unlikely scenario that you get duplicates of an undesirable item. I won't break out the math since it's all very complicated, but you will on average need to spend HUGE numbers of Crowns just to get to the point where you're even getting duplicates of useless items to turn into Gems, nevermind the poor odds of getting That Thing You Want. Unless they have a very limited, rotating selection of items in the lockboxes, you are going to be spending more on RNG than you ever would have for the actual item.
I don't mean any disrespect or wish to imply any malevolence on the part of ZOS, but this is a loathsome system that should never have made it past the first marketing meeting. The premise is foul, the implications are heinous, and I sincerely hope it fails completely. I know it's just cosmetic items, but that's not the issue. The issue is introducing a system of gambling into the game.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster11 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Bouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »"Although we understand some are upset"
I ran this through my cracker jack decoder ring and here is what came out....We know some of you don't like this, but the people who handle the money here don't care.
I'm sure most of the devs and team don't like this direction as it gives the game they have worked so hard on a negative perception, but the money people who have no worked the long hours or invested their lives in the game don't care what they think either.
It's just bad business.
And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
Once upon a time, there has been a company in the far north, where ice and active volcanoes form the top of the world. They started out long long ago when the internet was still young and created a universe, out of their passion and love for creating a fabulous, exciting and unforgiving game. These same people have been managing and developing this universe until this day with the same passion if not more and guess what, they are still healthy, without to be greedy or charge for everything extra. Their motto is "EVE forever" and they were never nearer to it than now - you do not have to prey on players to be successful.Edited by Lysette on August 20, 2016 5:27PM5 -
Stiltz✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsRohamad_Ali wrote: »I think it's ridiculous that people are getting upset over this. I would understand if it was pay to win items but cosmetics and mounts? Who gives a flying ****? If you don't want to buy one then don't. It's as simple as that.
The fact is that there will be plenty of people that will be all over this, and that will bring in revenue which will help cover expenses for new content and the fixes that the players need.
I will most likely never even consider buying one, but I couldn't possibly care any less what others do with their crowns.
The stuff you get is NOT the concern from me . It's the telling sign of business model change seen in all other games that go F2P and make everything worse ingame . That is the concern from me . If One Tamriel is launched and F2P is surprised announced same time , I won't be surprised .
^ This.
And anyone who thinks that things will stay purely cosmetic after they have introduced the boxes is not looking at the history of this.
ZOS has expanded what types of items are available in the Crown Store over time. I expect that trend to continue. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't an interim stage in a longer term plan, i.e.:
1) Crown Store Intro
2) Add more "convenience" items such as XP scrolls, horse lessons and skill lines.
3) Create artificial scarcity through the use of Limited Time offers.
4) Add a new delivery method (lootboxes) to offer a work-around for the self-imposed scarcity issue, as well as a few exclusive items to get people interested. (thus revitalising the current Crown Store offerings).
5) After the buzz from (4) has dropped a bit, add more item types, pushing the boundary towards P2W slowly.
6) Repeat (5) every time the frenzy dies down.
It is an abhorrent model, but sadly one that is likely to result in considerable income for ZOS.
You've got to be kidding me with this conspiracy theory ****. They emphatically stated that these boxes will NOT have pay to win items. Your conspiracy theories are ridiculous and this thread is ridiculous- filled with assumptions and paranoia.
3 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Bouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »"Although we understand some are upset"
I ran this through my cracker jack decoder ring and here is what came out....We know some of you don't like this, but the people who handle the money here don't care.
I'm sure most of the devs and team don't like this direction as it gives the game they have worked so hard on a negative perception, but the money people who have no worked the long hours or invested their lives in the game don't care what they think either.
It's just bad business.
And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
The business world can work in whatever way you want it to.
If you want to build a business based on trust, customer satisfaction and loyalty then that is perfectly possible even in the world of today. You may not believe it but many people respond positively to this approach.
If you want to make as much money as possible in the shortest amount of time possible while not fostering any kind of customer retention or respect, then that is possible also. This is usually done by companies with the least amount of innovation or new and interesting products and services.8 -
Mickey_Ox✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gambleZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
It'll automatically be added if you don't already own it.@ZOS_GinaBruno What if I get something I really DON'T like but I don't have it in my collection? Would I have the possibility to exchange it for gems, or it added to your collection automatically?
There will be a separate section in the Crown Store where you can spend your Crown Gems, which will contain a special selection of items - it won't include every item from the Crown Store. Items will also be rotated occasionally so it won't be the same things all the time.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -
First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.
In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.
Does this mean there will be a separate store for merchandise ONLY available in the Crown Crates with Crown Gems as the currency instead of regular ole Crown's? For example, if I get enough duplicates where I have around 3k Crown Gems, do I open up a separate store with nothing but the items in the Crown Crates, find the Ultra Rare Mount I've been trying to get but haven't gotten, and buy it right there with all the Crown Gems I've assembled from selling back my duplicates?
So let me get this right @ZOS_GinaBruno ,certain new limited items will only be available in the gem store, but my only way of getting gems is by gambling on a lottery box in the hopes I get an item I already own so I can cash it in for gems. So given the rng of this game i could end buying 10,000 crowns worth (as I own very few crown store items) of lottery boxs to earn enough gems to purchase one of the new exclusive items which is ONLY available for gems. This is a whole new lvl of greed
Ever Tried, Ever Failed,
No Matter.
Try again, Fail again,
Fail Better12 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think it's ridiculous that people are getting upset over this. I would understand if it was pay to win items but cosmetics and mounts? Who gives a flying ****? If you don't want to buy one then don't. It's as simple as that.
The fact is that there will be plenty of people that will be all over this, and that will bring in revenue which will help cover expenses for new content and the fixes that the players need.
I will most likely never even consider buying one, but I couldn't possibly care any less what others do with their crowns.
The stuff you get is NOT the concern from me . It's the telling sign of business model change seen in all other games that go F2P and make everything worse ingame . That is the concern from me . If One Tamriel is launched and F2P is surprised announced same time , I won't be surprised .
^ This.
And anyone who thinks that things will stay purely cosmetic after they have introduced the boxes is not looking at the history of this.
ZOS has expanded what types of items are available in the Crown Store over time. I expect that trend to continue. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't an interim stage in a longer term plan, i.e.:
1) Crown Store Intro
2) Add more "convenience" items such as XP scrolls, horse lessons and skill lines.
3) Create artificial scarcity through the use of Limited Time offers.
4) Add a new delivery method (lootboxes) to offer a work-around for the self-imposed scarcity issue, as well as a few exclusive items to get people interested. (thus revitalising the current Crown Store offerings).
5) After the buzz from (4) has dropped a bit, add more item types, pushing the boundary towards P2W slowly.
6) Repeat (5) every time the frenzy dies down.
It is an abhorrent model, but sadly one that is likely to result in considerable income for ZOS.
You've got to be kidding me with this conspiracy theory ****. They emphatically stated that these boxes will NOT have pay to win items. Your conspiracy theories are ridiculous and this thread is ridiculous- filled with assumptions and paranoia.
i have experienced these kinds of changes first hand. one of my most painful ones was believe it or not. runescape.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.The marketing team is in full force on their forum accounts .7 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gambleRohamad_Ali wrote: »I think it's ridiculous that people are getting upset over this. I would understand if it was pay to win items but cosmetics and mounts? Who gives a flying ****? If you don't want to buy one then don't. It's as simple as that.
The fact is that there will be plenty of people that will be all over this, and that will bring in revenue which will help cover expenses for new content and the fixes that the players need.
I will most likely never even consider buying one, but I couldn't possibly care any less what others do with their crowns.
The stuff you get is NOT the concern from me . It's the telling sign of business model change seen in all other games that go F2P and make everything worse ingame . That is the concern from me . If One Tamriel is launched and F2P is surprised announced same time , I won't be surprised .
^ This.
And anyone who thinks that things will stay purely cosmetic after they have introduced the boxes is not looking at the history of this.
ZOS has expanded what types of items are available in the Crown Store over time. I expect that trend to continue. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't an interim stage in a longer term plan, i.e.:
1) Crown Store Intro
2) Add more "convenience" items such as XP scrolls, horse lessons and skill lines.
3) Create artificial scarcity through the use of Limited Time offers.
4) Add a new delivery method (lootboxes) to offer a work-around for the self-imposed scarcity issue, as well as a few exclusive items to get people interested. (thus revitalising the current Crown Store offerings).
5) After the buzz from (4) has dropped a bit, add more item types, pushing the boundary towards P2W slowly.
6) Repeat (5) every time the frenzy dies down.
It is an abhorrent model, but sadly one that is likely to result in considerable income for ZOS.
You've got to be kidding me with this conspiracy theory ****. They emphatically stated that these boxes will NOT have pay to win items. Your conspiracy theories are ridiculous and this thread is ridiculous- filled with assumptions and paranoia.
There is a saying in my country, that "A cat who was scalded is afraid of cold water".
We saw this happen in other games, you see. And the devs of other games also started by "emphatically stating" that the RNG boxes would have no p2w items.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Just wait until you see Tempering Alloys and wax in the box loot table and a mysterious reduction in drop rates in game, because it may take some time but this will come, seen this in EVERY game with RNG boxes.
Except, they already did that. The actual material cost for Tier 10 writs went way up with update 11, crippling the easiest source of gold upgrade mats.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think it's ridiculous that people are getting upset over this. I would understand if it was pay to win items but cosmetics and mounts? Who gives a flying ****? If you don't want to buy one then don't. It's as simple as that.
The fact is that there will be plenty of people that will be all over this, and that will bring in revenue which will help cover expenses for new content and the fixes that the players need.
I will most likely never even consider buying one, but I couldn't possibly care any less what others do with their crowns.
The stuff you get is NOT the concern from me . It's the telling sign of business model change seen in all other games that go F2P and make everything worse ingame . That is the concern from me . If One Tamriel is launched and F2P is surprised announced same time , I won't be surprised .
^ This.
And anyone who thinks that things will stay purely cosmetic after they have introduced the boxes is not looking at the history of this.
ZOS has expanded what types of items are available in the Crown Store over time. I expect that trend to continue. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't an interim stage in a longer term plan, i.e.:
1) Crown Store Intro
2) Add more "convenience" items such as XP scrolls, horse lessons and skill lines.
3) Create artificial scarcity through the use of Limited Time offers.
4) Add a new delivery method (lootboxes) to offer a work-around for the self-imposed scarcity issue, as well as a few exclusive items to get people interested. (thus revitalising the current Crown Store offerings).
5) After the buzz from (4) has dropped a bit, add more item types, pushing the boundary towards P2W slowly.
6) Repeat (5) every time the frenzy dies down.
It is an abhorrent model, but sadly one that is likely to result in considerable income for ZOS.
You've got to be kidding me with this conspiracy theory ****. They emphatically stated that these boxes will NOT have pay to win items. Your conspiracy theories are ridiculous and this thread is ridiculous- filled with assumptions and paranoia.
They also "emphatically stated" there would be no gamble boxes, on these boards. They "emphatically stated" there'd never be a cash shop in the game.
They say, "no, no, no, we'd never do that." Six months later, in it comes. No gamble boxes. Seriously, they promised that back in 2014, when they were soothing over fears with TU. And, oh, look what we have here? *** grab bags. Gee, I wonder if this time we should believe them that they'll stop here? Because, I sure as *** don't.17 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
It'll automatically be added if you don't already own it.@ZOS_GinaBruno What if I get something I really DON'T like but I don't have it in my collection? Would I have the possibility to exchange it for gems, or it added to your collection automatically?
There will be a separate section in the Crown Store where you can spend your Crown Gems, which will contain a special selection of items - it won't include every item from the Crown Store. Items will also be rotated occasionally so it won't be the same things all the time.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -
First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.
In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.
Does this mean there will be a separate store for merchandise ONLY available in the Crown Crates with Crown Gems as the currency instead of regular ole Crown's? For example, if I get enough duplicates where I have around 3k Crown Gems, do I open up a separate store with nothing but the items in the Crown Crates, find the Ultra Rare Mount I've been trying to get but haven't gotten, and buy it right there with all the Crown Gems I've assembled from selling back my duplicates?
So let me get this right @ZOS_GinaBruno ,certain new limited items will only be available in the gem store, but my only way of getting gems is by gambling on a lottery box in the hopes I get an item I already own so I can cash it in for gems. So given the rng of this game i could end buying 10,000 crowns worth (as I own very few crown store items) of lottery boxs to earn enough gems to purchase one of the new exclusive items which is ONLY available for gems. This is a whole new lvl of greed
Much much worse - you said you do not own a lot of crown store items yet - so if you win something, it will most likely be new to your collection and you won't get any Crown Gems, but the items will be added to your collection instead. So with not that much bought from the crown store yet, you might end up having to buy boxes for a couple of hundred thousands crowns before you are any likely to get Crown Gems - this will be a really crappy deal for you.5 -
Garldeen✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Bouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
My advanced business degree (MBA) and doctorate (is that enough to be able to proffer an opinion on this?) agrees with his/her analysis. Just because something drives money, it doesn't mean it is the right way to do things. This is about short term profit grab and nothing else - look at the average life span of free to play games - it is a make as much money as you can before the next shiny free game comes along, approach - where is angry birds now, don't hear much of candy crush anymore, do we?
The real returns in business come from understanding customer lifetime value. People know fee paying MMOs such as FFXIV has far fewer players than this game, but they understand that pay offering a quality product and keeping customers happy they will collect $10 a month from gamers, for many years, potentially leading to $500-$1000+ per gamer, easily. It is a far different, and a much classier approach (in my opinion) than a quick money grab trying to get $50 off a customer before they realise they are chucking money away.
It also has the added benefits that many of the gamers will buy the next FF MMO, and probably many offline FF games. I wonder how many people who leave the game over this issue will go near a Zenimax game again? I know I won't.Edited by Garldeen on August 20, 2016 5:41PM4 -
Garldeen✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.My advanced business degree (MBA) and doctorate (is that enough to be able to proffer an opinion on this?) agrees with his/her analysis. Just because something drives money, it doesn't mean it is the right way to do things. This is about short term profit grab and nothing else - look at the average life span of free to play games - it is a make as much money as you can before the next shiny free game comes along, approach - where is angry birds now, don't hear much of candy crush anymore, do we?
The real returns in business come from understanding customer lifetime value. People know fee paying MMOs such as FFXIV has far fewer players than this game, but they understand that by offering a quality product and keeping customers happy they will collect $10 a month from gamers, for many years, potentially leading to $500-$1000+ per gamer, easily. It is a far different, and a much classier approach (in my opinion) than a quick money grab trying to get $50 off a customer before they realise they are chucking money away.
It also has the added benefits that many of the gamers will buy the next FF MMO, and probably many offline FF games. I wonder how many people who leave the game over this issue will go near a Zenimax game again? I know I won't.
Note: This is not be claiming to know everything just because I have degrees etc, but rather it is a post against the notion that someone's opinion is wrong just because they might not hold a business degree.
Edit: Managed to somehow quote myself above so retyped as I'm useless and couldn't fix it.Edited by Garldeen on August 20, 2016 5:45PM8 -
Zeddakis✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Altercator wrote: »It's just bad business.
Most people who just worry about money are bad business people.
Edited by Zeddakis on August 21, 2016 4:22AM5 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.I'm against it just because this feels like gambling, and the game already has a bad history with RNG.5 -
Cousin_Idirfa✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.This is a very bad idea. I personally like to purchase the cosmetic items because it adds a level of fun to the game, and because it supports this game that I love. But I like to know what I'm getting for what I'm spending. With this change, a wanted mount could end up costing 10,000 (or more) instead of 4000 crowns. That's not adding fun to the game. I'm sure that the intention is for us to spend the 10,000 crowns instead of the face value cost of the item in the crown store. But why squeeze the players who are interested in the cosmetic items, and who are already buying the cosmetic items, and therefore already supporting the game?7 -
Altercator✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.
To be clear. I'm the one that said, "It's just bad business." Your quote should not be attributed to Roechacca.Edited by Altercator on August 20, 2016 5:49PM1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsBouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »"Although we understand some are upset"
I ran this through my cracker jack decoder ring and here is what came out....We know some of you don't like this, but the people who handle the money here don't care.
I'm sure most of the devs and team don't like this direction as it gives the game they have worked so hard on a negative perception, but the money people who have no worked the long hours or invested their lives in the game don't care what they think either.
It's just bad business.
And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
Once upon a time, there has been a company in the far north, where ice and active volcanoes form the top of the world. They started out long long ago when the internet was still young and created a universe, out of their passion and love for creating a fabulous, exciting and unforgiving game. These same people have been managing and developing this universe until this day with the same passion if not more and guess what, they are still healthy, without to be greedy or charge for everything extra. Their motto is "EVE forever" and they were never nearer to it than now - you do not have to prey on players to be successful.
ONE company does not an industry make.
I'm sorry that we don't live in a world based off of hopes and dreams, but we live in one where money is king. Until we change as a whole - that is the way it is going to be.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Let's just call this one right now.
Right now, they're saying, "it's only a crown store item, and it will never be Pay to Win."
Next, it'll be that the gold upgrade mats are now a "convenience item" because it's too much of a pain to hunt those up for players who don't have much time to log in.
Then someone will realize, wait, if we drop these in game, we can increase our sales numbers. So the grab bags will get locked, and we'll be paying for keys. Bonus points if this gets derped up somehow and locks existing bags, forcing people to buy keys for bags they already paid for.
Spellcrafting gets announced. Spellcrafting is a lockbox exclusive.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Reading some post on reddit from 2013/2014 about topics like cash shop and such - all I can say is, this does not look like ZOS would be honest with their customer base about what is planned for the future - they were not honest then and I think they are not honest now - a german saying is "wer einmal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht, selbst wenn er gleich die Wahrheit spricht" - "One does not believe someone, who lied once, even if he will immediately tell the truth afterwards" - and this here is even worse, they do not even tell the truth afterwards - so by german standards, they are not trustworthy anymore.Edited by Lysette on August 20, 2016 5:51PM6 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsAltercator wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »"Although we understand some are upset"
I ran this through my cracker jack decoder ring and here is what came out....We know some of you don't like this, but the people who handle the money here don't care.
I'm sure most of the devs and team don't like this direction as it gives the game they have worked so hard on a negative perception, but the money people who have no worked the long hours or invested their lives in the game don't care what they think either.
It's just bad business.
And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
That's a bleak defense.
It's not a defense at all. It is a REALITY. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to accept it. But if you can't SEE it, I can't help you.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.zulikab14_ESO wrote: »Crap! Just when I was getting back into the game.
Now I feel bad about buying that long term sub as I do not want to support this any longer.
Have you considered asking for your money back? People who have long running subs, if htey feel strongly about this, should probably do so.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
Stiltz✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsCalling these "gambling boxes" is like calling marijuana a "hard drug".
You lot are really trying to make this out to sound like a truly sinister thing.Edited by Stiltz on August 20, 2016 5:57PM4 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Reading some post on reddit from 2013/2014 about topics like cash shop and such - all I can say is, this does not look like ZOS would be honest with their customer base about what is planned for the future - they were not honest then and I think they are not honest now - a german saying is "wer einmal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht, selbst wenn er gleich die Wahrheit spricht" - "One does not believe someone, who lied once, even if he will immediately tell the truth afterwards" - and this here is even worse, they do not even tell the truth afterwards - so by german standards, they are not trustworthy anymore.
Yeah its like that old story about a boy who cried "Wolf!".
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Calling these "gambling boxes" is like calling marijuana a "hard drug".
No, "gamble boxes" is an industry term. So are Lockbox and Lucky Bags. Complaining about it is like saying, "no, no, no, it's not PvP, it's PvPvE, because there's guards 'n stuff, m'kay?"2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »"Although we understand some are upset"
I ran this through my cracker jack decoder ring and here is what came out....We know some of you don't like this, but the people who handle the money here don't care.
I'm sure most of the devs and team don't like this direction as it gives the game they have worked so hard on a negative perception, but the money people who have no worked the long hours or invested their lives in the game don't care what they think either.
It's just bad business.
And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
Once upon a time, there has been a company in the far north, where ice and active volcanoes form the top of the world. They started out long long ago when the internet was still young and created a universe, out of their passion and love for creating a fabulous, exciting and unforgiving game. These same people have been managing and developing this universe until this day with the same passion if not more and guess what, they are still healthy, without to be greedy or charge for everything extra. Their motto is "EVE forever" and they were never nearer to it than now - you do not have to prey on players to be successful.
ONE company does not an industry make.
I'm sorry that we don't live in a world based off of hopes and dreams, but we live in one where money is king. Until we change as a whole - that is the way it is going to be.
No, no, you might be living in this world, buy I am european, we are not having such a crappy morale like the USA - there is something like honor and honesty, which is appreciated by european customers - but what we do not like is to be lied at - you might be used to that, we are not and we are not accepting this as state-of-the-art - keep that in your country were it belongs.7 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsBouldercleave wrote: »Altercator wrote: »And this is based on your advanced business degree? I'm sorry but the world that we live in doesn't work the way you people seem to want it to.
In this gaming industry, it is actually GOOD business. They know that this game dies when the next shiny trinket comes down the road (and it WILL come down the road). They need to capitalize on as much revenue as possible as fast as possible.
There is a 20 page list of all the MMOs that have come before, and there is a 20 page list of MMOs that are in the works. They know that you aren't going to be loyal, and this game will eventually fade away like all the others because they ALL do.
Quit being so naive and think that ANY of these gaming companies have your best interests at heart. They are here to take as much of your money as they can, for as long as you will allow it. Just like any other business.
My advanced business degree (MBA) and doctorate (is that enough to be able to proffer an opinion on this?) agrees with his/her analysis. Just because something drives money, it doesn't mean it is the right way to do things. This is about short term profit grab and nothing else - look at the average life span of free to play games - it is a make as much money as you can before the next shiny free game comes along, approach - where is angry birds now, don't hear much of candy crush anymore, do we?
The real returns in business come from understanding customer lifetime value. People know fee paying MMOs such as FFXIV has far fewer players than this game, but they understand that pay offering a quality product and keeping customers happy they will collect $10 a month from gamers, for many years, potentially leading to $500-$1000+ per gamer, easily. It is a far different, and a much classier approach (in my opinion) than a quick money grab trying to get $50 off a customer before they realise they are chucking money away.
It also has the added benefits that many of the gamers will buy the next FF MMO, and probably many offline FF games. I wonder how many people who leave the game over this issue will go near a Zenimax game again? I know I won't.
Ideology is a wonderful thing - unfortunately that is not the way of the current state of the industry. Your advanced degree is impressive and should make you more informed on the reality of the world. There is no guarantee that gamers will by the next FF MMO or any of the offline offering, and there are countless companies that banked on that and are no longer in business.
Reality VS ideology can be a real *** sometimes, but reality is what puts food on the table.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Bouldercleave wrote: »Reality VS ideology can be a real *** sometimes, but reality is what puts food on the table.
And unmitigated greed can flat out kill games.12
This discussion has been closed.