Red Mountain new stam dps meta?

peniku8

And if I'm not mistaken the best gear for Single Target dps should be 3xVicious 5xTBS 2xVelindreth, that should be op af
Really wanna test Velindreth now that I'm done with RM testing

LEGENDARYYY

peniku8 wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

I have no idea why this discussion is so heated, personally I think that this set has a lot of potential (if it gets fixed) but also I've not seen a proof yet that it is far superior and for 1 or 2% increase I would always favour TBS to gain more survivability.
But to be fair the OP will not be able to show you impressive parses coz he's missing vMA Weapons and isn't even at cp-cap.

I'm returning to the game on Tuesday and will try to get my hands on divine RM so I can test it in a good trialsetup.

Yea I'm thinking the same here, wtf are those people up to, trying to defend XY for reason YZ not contributing to the discussion.
But I learned how Warhorn works, since that means I've been calculating wrong all the time which is quite depressing since I knew all calcs were correct and I was happy with being finished lol.
I dislike TBS because you're not able to swap out sets mid-dungeon... I'd love to run 2xVelindreth+5xVO for AOE but ofc you can't just get your Mundus back in a Trial. They should change TBS that you can assign a mundus to it.

Alcast wrote: »

You are testing dps on a guard. TBS vs RM

You do realize that TBS gets strong in a raid environment with Aggressive Warhorn Major Force? >.>

TBS>RM in Raids by miles.

Yea I was using the wrong formula to calculate warhorn, thats why I came up with the result that the low resistance of the guard was equal to trial buffs. That forumla was literally the only thing in my calculations, not based on my own testings

So here are fixed results for those who are interested @Alcast @Nifty2g @hedna123b14_ESO @LEGENDARYYY
RM=3% dps increase + proc, which is 3k in a healthy environment, drops to about 2k with bad luck.
TBS=9,7% dps increase (on my Stamsorc with 5% crit from CP); 13,5% dps increase with warhorn every 12s including several other buffs

so, if you deal 40k base damage,
TBS will output 45,4k and
RM will output 44,2k

That means TBS does 2,7% more dps than RM if you have 80% Major Force uptime (Warhorn every 12s).
TBS outputs slightly less without Horn, which means that RM should be better for vMSA (for pure dps at least).

Looks like TBS=Trials, RM=dungeons+MSA and maybe vDSA?
And yea, almost 3% difference is quite alot. I will still get my Red Mountain just to have some fun, maybe it'll output more dps after they fixed it and it'll be BIS, who knows

I think we can end the theorycrafting now

Ok ty. I will update post with a lot of info tomorrow then. Btw look top of page 8 and my dot calcs. Took me an hour to do. Interesting result.

NoRagret

Now the question is, what 5 piece set would be better to wear with RM, VO or TBS?

BTW whats all the hype around VO, doesnt Hundings provide more damage?

DeadDealer

@blur go away pls troll
its serious topic

RM>TBS so far

peniku8

NoRagret wrote: »

Now the question is, what 5 piece set would be better to wear with RM, VO or TBS?

BTW whats all the hype around VO, doesnt Hundings provide more damage?

VO outputs incredible dps, it has minor slayer, 6% crit and 130Weapon Damage; Hundings offers 170 Weapon Damage and 1k stam more, but thats nowhere near 5% dps. In addition to that, VO offers insane sustain and mobility.
The best 5pcs along with one of these sets is probably 3xAgility+2xVelindreth or 3xVO+Veli if you're not wearing 5xVO already.

btw, 6,3% crit is about 3,7% more dps combined with Warhorn and TBS (if you have 81% crit with VO).

NoRagret

peniku8 wrote: »

NoRagret wrote: »

Now the question is, what 5 piece set would be better to wear with RM, VO or TBS?

BTW whats all the hype around VO, doesnt Hundings provide more damage?

VO outputs incredible dps, it has minor slayer, 6% crit and 130Weapon Damage; Hundings offers 170 Weapon Damage and 1k stam more, but thats nowhere near 5% dps. In addition to that, VO offers insane sustain and mobility.
The best 5pcs along with one of these sets is probably 3xAgility+2xVelindreth or 3xVO+Veli if you're not wearing 5xVO already.

btw, 6,3% crit is about 3,7% more dps combined with Warhorn and TBS (if you have 81% crit with VO).

Hundings gives 300 damage but yea i get ur point

DangerMan

So have we come to a conclusion as to what is BiS? 5xTBS+3xVO+2xVelindreth?

LEGENDARYYY

Updated post with this:

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

UPDATE 12.08.16

After hours of bashing, insulting, flaming, proccing, dmg dealing, boasting, calculating, failing, assuming, and claiming.

Here is the most probable result, and it is kind of a draw between Twice Born Star and Red Mountain

Twice Born Star: Probably still the king of total max dps output in static fights with buffs. Better in veteran Trials and situations where u pull 40k+ dps. Should do a few more % dps when ur at 100k ish AOE too.

Red Mountain: Probably better in all other situations where your current dps is below 40k, or when you are unbuffed. Also good burst potential if you proc. The more you struggle in a battle, the more this set shines. (vDSA, vMSA, Dungeons) Note: To be effective with the set you need rapid strikes, endless hail and keep dots on targets. Or else your proc rate will vary a LOT.

Viper: Don't really know what to say here but in PvE this set is pretty fkn bad. I regret ever buying it for testing (200k gone).

It is nearly impossible to calculate the difference between the two though cause Red Mountain has a proc.

What's important to point out is that Red Mountain proc isn't much of a gamble. If you don't proc Red Mountain will pull ~7-10% less dps than Twice Born Star. Average you are looking at a ~1-3% more dmg cause of the proc in various situations. Theoretically, depending on the situation, you can achieve at least ~20% more damage within 10 seconds from Red Mountain compared to Twice Born Star if you are very lucky. That said, with buffs up Twice Born Star could probably close this pretty huge dps gap.

In the end it is up to you which set you wanna wear, because they both seem to have a purpose in this game

Does that seem okay?

Edit: Did some small adjustments based on feedback.

peniku8

NoRagret wrote: »

Hundings gives 300 damage but yea i get ur point

Thats why I wrote '170 WD MORE than VO' since VO offers 130 WD. 300-130=170 ;D

DangerMan wrote: »

So have we come to a conclusion as to what is BiS? 5xTBS+3xVO+2xVelindreth?

In terms of pure dps, thats most likely the best combination. I have yet to test Velindreth and I hope that I'll be able to provide dps screens and test results/calculations of that set aswell soon

LEGENDARYYY

When I think about it, 5x Viper 5x RM and 2x Velidreth would probably be crazy fun!!!


if they come in impenetrable soon, dat pvp burst.

juhasman

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

peniku8

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

LEGENDARYYY

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

you on legendary divines yet?:)

peniku8

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

you on legendary divines yet?:)

2 are divines now, still everthing purple

juhasman

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

You mean that 90 sec fight with abash watch guard that looks like he have less then 0 resists and takes waay too much dmg?

peniku8

juhasman wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

You mean that 90 sec fight with abash watch guard that looks like he have less then 0 resists and takes waay too much dmg?

if you read the thread you would've seen that we already discussed that, but why read something what you're commenting on, right? :P

juhasman

peniku8 wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

You mean that 90 sec fight with abash watch guard that looks like he have less then 0 resists and takes waay too much dmg?

if you read the thread you would've seen that we already discussed that, but why read something what you're commenting on, right? :P

Well I just answered on Your post which was answer to my post that dont require me to read all posts on this thread. Or does it? Also You want to compare 90 sec fight with self buffs to 10 minute fight with group buffs? Especially when TBS rely on group buffs much more then red mountain. You can find post in this thread where I am saying RM is good set imo but it's not BiS.

peniku8

juhasman wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

You mean that 90 sec fight with abash watch guard that looks like he have less then 0 resists and takes waay too much dmg?

if you read the thread you would've seen that we already discussed that, but why read something what you're commenting on, right? :P

Well I just answered on Your post which was answer to my post that dont require me to read all posts on this thread. Or does it? Also You want to compare 90 sec fight with self buffs to 10 minute fight with group buffs? Especially when TBS rely on group buffs much more then red mountain. You can find post in this thread where I am saying RM is good set imo but it's not BiS.

Yea and we wrote alot on that and we know that TBS is BIS with groupbuffs so why should I write everything twice :<
RM is definitely a great set and probably the runner up to TBS in trials, it even outperforms it in certain situations.
I've just run nSO and had one fight where Red Mountain added 4,3k to my dps without having warhorn, that was 8% more dps vs 3 targets, which is totally awesome. I'm still on purple sturdy RM and I'm running a precise weapon, you would get even more from RM with dual sharpened, we also didn't have drain or anything, RM can easily add 5k to fights like that.

LEGENDARYYY

juhasman wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

FYI, I made a video of the Velindreth fight, RM procs alot in the beginning there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Hrq1JI18

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

yea I'm not in a pro trials guild so I can't test it there, sadly, but why do you say short fights? I went through my rotation several times on the 90 seconds fight and used my ultimate several times aswell, there is absolutely no difference between this 90s fight and a 1 hour fight (except that I might get tired after some time )

You mean that 90 sec fight with abash watch guard that looks like he have less then 0 resists and takes waay too much dmg?

if you read the thread you would've seen that we already discussed that, but why read something what you're commenting on, right? :P

Well I just answered on Your post which was answer to my post that dont require me to read all posts on this thread. Or does it? Also You want to compare 90 sec fight with self buffs to 10 minute fight with group buffs? Especially when TBS rely on group buffs much more then red mountain. You can find post in this thread where I am saying RM is good set imo but it's not BiS.

I have already updated the thread saying TBS is BiS in trials even though I still both think and calculate RM to be stronger. So, you should be happy.

Not including RMs burst and strength in dynamic fights + its strength when u only got dots on target + insane performance vs 3 mobs, tbs is only a few % better in trials with all buffs up in an ideal situation for it.

But hey, I'll let it go and let u guys figure that out for yourselves.

juhasman

Btw 1 question because this one I couldnt figure out by my own due to fact I dont have RM dual wield. Is that set procs from poison injection and endless hail when i have it full on dual wield but not on bow?

LEGENDARYYY

juhasman wrote: »

Btw 1 question because this one I couldnt figure out by my own due to fact I dont have RM dual wield. Is that set procs from poison injection and endless hail when i have it full on dual wield but not on bow?

it should proc from those dots if u swap back to dual wield after applying them yes.

but it wont proc when u got bow bar up.

I haven't tested this though, but I will later when im gonna run 5x rm 5x vo 2x veli dw and 4x rm 5x vo 2x veli on my bow bar.

LEGENDARYYY

Can confirm Engulfing flames on tank or dk mage gives an extra 10% damage for other players RM proc.

peniku8

I collected some data on RM (purple, all divines now), here are the results:

nHRC first boss, ??? warhorn uptime


nSO final boss, 40% warhorn


WGT crematorial guard, no horn


random AOE in nSO, 45% horn



It won't outperform TBS in sustained trial fights (especially not in AOE) but it's surely a great set and it's really nice for bursting. RM will also proc less often on Nighblades because they use a Class execute.
RM should be a bit better on a DK with the enhanced flame damage

LEGENDARYYY

peniku8 wrote: »

I collected some data on RM (purple, all divines now), here are the results:

nHRC first boss, no warhorn


nSO final boss, 40% warhorn


WGT crematorial guard, no horn


random AOE in nSO, no horn



It won't outperform TBS in sustained trial fights (especially not in AOE) but it's surely a great set and it's really nice for bursting. RM will also proc less often on Nighblades because they use a Class execute.
RM should be a bit better on a DK with the enhanced flame damage

RM benefits from nightblades hemorrage passive thought.

10% more dmg on crit:)

I'll post some vMSA screens soon!

LEGENDARYYY

Scored 525 156 in vMSA on my new stamsorc char.

Gear:
5x legendary Red Mountain divine/jewelry
5x purple VO, with two reinforced traits....
2x legendary Night mother sharpened daggers
1x legendary maelstrom bow

No undaunted passives, no dawnbreaker cus fighters guild lvl 9 atm. Which means I have no ult that I use actually. I didn't activate overload once during the run

Trap beast unmorphed. Alchemy medicinal use is skilled only 2/3.

RM does a lot of damage. Sometimes even up to 20%.

Screens from final boss:

Toc de Malsvi

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Btw 1 question because this one I couldnt figure out by my own due to fact I dont have RM dual wield. Is that set procs from poison injection and endless hail when i have it full on dual wield but not on bow?

it should proc from those dots if u swap back to dual wield after applying them yes.

but it wont proc when u got bow bar up.

I haven't tested this though, but I will later when im gonna run 5x rm 5x vo 2x veli dw and 4x rm 5x vo 2x veli on my bow bar.

Why would it not proc with a bow? I see nothing that says a bow cannot proc Red Mountain?

LEGENDARYYY

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

It's over week of this thread and still noone posted an INSANE dps video from long trial fights wearing RM All we have is just math and few screenshots from short fights

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Btw 1 question because this one I couldnt figure out by my own due to fact I dont have RM dual wield. Is that set procs from poison injection and endless hail when i have it full on dual wield but not on bow?

it should proc from those dots if u swap back to dual wield after applying them yes.

but it wont proc when u got bow bar up.

I haven't tested this though, but I will later when im gonna run 5x rm 5x vo 2x veli dw and 4x rm 5x vo 2x veli on my bow bar.

Why would it not proc with a bow? I see nothing that says a bow cannot proc Red Mountain?

what we were talking about is if u run Red Mountain 4 pieces with a bow (lacking the proc passive) and then swapping to 5 pieces Red Mountain with ur dual wield bar.

It definitely procs on bow if u run 5 pieces with bow bar.

peniku8

@LEGENDARYYY thx for including my 14 deaths drunk weekly score

LEGENDARYYY

peniku8 wrote: »

@LEGENDARYYY thx for including my 14 deaths drunk weekly score

haha, I didn't even see u there, was in a random spot on leaderboards

Skinzz

Does anyone know what procs the red mountain set? Im using it on a stam nb and cant seem to figure outwhat exactly procs it.