Red Mountain new stam dps meta?

Minute_Waltz

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How exactly does the proc work ? Say im using steel tornado. Every single target hit by it will get the proc with a cd of 2 seconds ? Or just one of the affected targets. And how would it work with biting jabs ?

Did a quick test on this, it procs on each hit of rapid strikes, so would assume the same for jabs.

It doesn't proc on dots, only the initial hit.

wtf kind of test is this man. JABS isnt a wep ability.

and it DOES proc on dots.

are u on ps4 or somth?

if you read the thread ur posting in you would get all the answers.

You wanna show me how you tested the proc on dots part?
I've applied only claw/rending slash/endless hail/poison injection, then sit still and block, re-apply dots when they run out and repeat. 1 minute later and only 1 RM proc.

Edit: this was on pts 2.5.4

Minute_Waltz

oRioNoTime wrote: »

So VO+TBS still best in slot.

Viper was already meh in PvE, wasn't it?

When you say RM is better than viper "BY A LARGE MARGIN" do you mean like 20% increase overall dps or 2%? I see many screens with RM test but I don't see the comparison with VO. (i'm no pretending of course!).

Thanks for the testing.

VO is definitely bis and doesn't need to be tested, so its basically TBS vs RM, I've done solo test on RM with stam dk and its basically 3-3.5k dps on total parse, which is comparable to TBS in theory.

But it doesn't proc on dots apart from initial hit, so for a dk with 70% dps in dots, it doesn't really help much.

With stam sorc for example where rapid strike dominates the parse, RM may end up being better.

Refuse2GrowUp

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How exactly does the proc work ? Say im using steel tornado. Every single target hit by it will get the proc with a cd of 2 seconds ? Or just one of the affected targets. And how would it work with biting jabs ?

Did a quick test on this, it procs on each hit of rapid strikes, so would assume the same for jabs.

It doesn't proc on dots, only the initial hit.

wtf kind of test is this man. JABS isnt a wep ability.

and it DOES proc on dots.

are u on ps4 or somth?

if you read the thread ur posting in you would get all the answers.

I have been lurking this thread since you first created it. And as a console player, you have peaked my interest enough to try RM out (especially since I have a Dark Elf stam DK and am not sure if I want to invest in a race change {already have to pay for two other toons, a third is pushing the purse strings}).

That said, you may want to reconsider your aggressive response to someone else who is simply testing as well. You are here to share your test results and opinion. Why get angry just because someone else doesn't accept your tests at face value and does their own test and shares their own results?!

Why Jabs? Well, why not? There are many Stamplars out there who may be wondering about the proc rates with their primary spammable. So what if it isn't a weapon ability? ZOS has never been clear on what constitutes a melee attack or other vaguely defined tool-tips. And in the case of RM, it says weapon 'attack' vice weapon 'ability'. It may or may not proc via physical contact with weapons, as jabs does, just the same as via light or heavy attacks. So what if he wants to test it or is simply curious.

And so what if he reports having different test results about it proc'ing on DoTs? That is his test result. If you are concerned about his findings, ask about how he tested it and how he came to that conclusion. Or, run another test yourself and upload a video with conclusive evidence of it proc'ing on DoTs.

As for your comment "are you on PS4 or somth?" (1) The DLC isn't live on console, so no, the individual would not be on PS4 or somth. (2) Are you inferring that a console player is incapable of conducting tests or coming to some sort of conclusion? Yes, consolers lack the add-ons that do provide valuable input in tests like these, but if you think yourself better than consolers just because of add-ons or PC Masterrace, then I guess I could understand the aggressive reaction, bruised ego, or loss of manhood at having someone else post conflicting test results.

Fatalyis

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

You wanna show me how you tested the proc on dots part?
I've applied only claw/rending slash/endless hail/poison injection, then sit still and block, re-apply dots when they run out and repeat. 1 minute later and only 1 RM proc.

Edit: this was on pts 2.5.4

Tested RM a bit last night in both PVE and PVP and can confirm it does proc from DoTs. I had it proc on the DoT from Poison Injection, Hail and Rending Slashes (as well as random hits on Rapid Strikes). You won't see RM tick from Jabs / Claw because it only procs on Weapon abilities.

Minute_Waltz

Fatalyis wrote: »

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

You wanna show me how you tested the proc on dots part?
I've applied only claw/rending slash/endless hail/poison injection, then sit still and block, re-apply dots when they run out and repeat. 1 minute later and only 1 RM proc.

Edit: this was on pts 2.5.4

Tested RM a bit last night in both PVE and PVP and can confirm it does proc from DoTs. I had it proc on the DoT from Poison Injection, Hail and Rending Slashes (as well as random hits on Rapid Strikes). You won't see RM tick from Jabs / Claw because it only procs on Weapon abilities.

Okay good to know thanks, I'll have a play with it again on live when server is back up. Would definitely benefit dk's then since only claw is probably the only class skill in dk's top 5 parse.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

this set is a joke and as well every1 that is even thinking this to be meta for stam builds... how can u even consider something that is an elemental dmg proc to be bis?.. may gad who am I playing with!!! and srls wtf that 19k dps on warrior? with tbs+vo no msa weps I get 30k+ dps on HM warrior.. so pls... what are you asking again ?

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

I don't understand why just a few people are trying to over-hype a well balanced set. There are other sets that proc similar damage but the uniqueness of this one if sire damage, and of course its proc will perform a bit better than the others when used by a DK because of his passive. I don't see enough DK's anyways (stamina or magica, especially stamina based).

Since it is fire based I don't see how this set can be more powerful than other ones for the other classes.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand why just a few people are trying to over-hype a well balanced set. There are other sets that proc similar damage but the uniqueness of this one if sire damage, and of course its proc will perform a bit better than the others when used by a DK because of his passive. I don't see enough DK's anyways (stamina or magica, especially stamina based).

Since it is fire based I don't see how this set can be more powerful than other ones for the other classes.

And also this will be somewhat useless in PvP against a dark elf because its fire damage and on top of that its elemental damage which can be additionally reduced.

LEGENDARYYY

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How exactly does the proc work ? Say im using steel tornado. Every single target hit by it will get the proc with a cd of 2 seconds ? Or just one of the affected targets. And how would it work with biting jabs ?

Did a quick test on this, it procs on each hit of rapid strikes, so would assume the same for jabs.

It doesn't proc on dots, only the initial hit.

wtf kind of test is this man. JABS isnt a wep ability.

and it DOES proc on dots.

are u on ps4 or somth?

if you read the thread ur posting in you would get all the answers.

I have been lurking this thread since you first created it. And as a console player, you have peaked my interest enough to try RM out (especially since I have a Dark Elf stam DK and am not sure if I want to invest in a race change {already have to pay for two other toons, a third is pushing the purse strings}).

That said, you may want to reconsider your aggressive response to someone else who is simply testing as well. You are here to share your test results and opinion. Why get angry just because someone else doesn't accept your tests at face value and does their own test and shares their own results?!

Why Jabs? Well, why not? There are many Stamplars out there who may be wondering about the proc rates with their primary spammable. So what if it isn't a weapon ability? ZOS has never been clear on what constitutes a melee attack or other vaguely defined tool-tips. And in the case of RM, it says weapon 'attack' vice weapon 'ability'. It may or may not proc via physical contact with weapons, as jabs does, just the same as via light or heavy attacks. So what if he wants to test it or is simply curious.

And so what if he reports having different test results about it proc'ing on DoTs? That is his test result. If you are concerned about his findings, ask about how he tested it and how he came to that conclusion. Or, run another test yourself and upload a video with conclusive evidence of it proc'ing on DoTs.

As for your comment "are you on PS4 or somth?" (1) The DLC isn't live on console, so no, the individual would not be on PS4 or somth. (2) Are you inferring that a console player is incapable of conducting tests or coming to some sort of conclusion? Yes, consolers lack the add-ons that do provide valuable input in tests like these, but if you think yourself better than consolers just because of add-ons or PC Masterrace, then I guess I could understand the aggressive reaction, bruised ego, or loss of manhood at having someone else post conflicting test results.

My aggressive tone is because I have to repeat myself 100 times because ppl dont bother reading even the main post. They are randomly spamming the thread with wrong info.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

this set is a joke and as well every1 that is even thinking this to be meta for stam builds... how can u even consider something that is an elemental dmg proc to be bis?.. may gad who am I playing with!!! and srls wtf that 19k dps on warrior? with tbs+vo no msa weps I get 30k+ dps on HM warrior.. so pls... what are you asking again ?

Did u even read through this thread? That 19k dps is a test setup with bad traits.

Come on..

LEGENDARYYY

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How exactly does the proc work ? Say im using steel tornado. Every single target hit by it will get the proc with a cd of 2 seconds ? Or just one of the affected targets. And how would it work with biting jabs ?

Did a quick test on this, it procs on each hit of rapid strikes, so would assume the same for jabs.

It doesn't proc on dots, only the initial hit.

wtf kind of test is this man. JABS isnt a wep ability.

and it DOES proc on dots.

are u on ps4 or somth?

if you read the thread ur posting in you would get all the answers.

You wanna show me how you tested the proc on dots part?
I've applied only claw/rending slash/endless hail/poison injection, then sit still and block, re-apply dots when they run out and repeat. 1 minute later and only 1 RM proc.

Edit: this was on pts 2.5.4

From what I know pts doesnt have the updated set. I think a lot was changed with the live version.

waterfairy

Where did you get CP 160 Red Mountain? I've never seen it that high...I guess everyone hoards it.

Derra

I love how this guy tries to create a hype around a mediocre set while having bought all the cheap pieces and relisted them for absurd prices.

Way to go mate - advanced marketing techniques

oRioNoTime

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

oRioNoTime wrote: »

So VO+TBS still best in slot.

Viper was already meh in PvE, wasn't it?

When you say RM is better than viper "BY A LARGE MARGIN" do you mean like 20% increase overall dps or 2%? I see many screens with RM test but I don't see the comparison with VO. (i'm no pretending of course!).

Thanks for the testing.

VO is definitely bis and doesn't need to be tested, so its basically TBS vs RM, I've done solo test on RM with stam dk and its basically 3-3.5k dps on total parse, which is comparable to TBS in theory.

But it doesn't proc on dots apart from initial hit, so for a dk with 70% dps in dots, it doesn't really help much.

With stam sorc for example where rapid strike dominates the parse, RM may end up being better.

Viper is not VO.

Totally two different sets.

LEGENDARYYY

Derra wrote: »

I love how this guy tries to create a hype around a mediocre set while having bought all the cheap pieces and relisted them for absurd prices.

Way to go mate - advanced marketing techniques

I tested the set, created forum post and then bought cheap items to resell. Wrong order for a scam dont u think? I even bought a ring I didn't have for 100k myself so that I could wear this set now running tbs + rm cus im missing a few VO pieces.

Please go ahead do dps tests with this set and show me why u think its mediocre.

splitsand

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

UPDATE 07.08.16, So far tests have concluded that Red Mountain > Viper by a huge margin. We are still investigating how RM performs compared to TBS. During dps tests and calculations they seem very similiar, but it seems RM in average is slightly stronger, especially in non-buffed situations. It is hard to measure RM and TBS cause its a proc vs static dmg increase. This also means that RM can proc in situations where TBS would never do as much dmg, say on a target with just poison injection on it, or when you are running for ur life while ur volley alone is still proccing tons of dmg on mobs. Sometimes if ur unlucky RM could have a low proc rate and might not proc at all. That said, no matter the outcome of new calculations, red mountain, tbs and VO are now the best stam sets. Without VO you can run tbs + red mountain which is absolutely lovely cus the shadow and thief boon increases dmg and crit rate of the flame proc.

Set picture:



During testing it seems to have somewhere close to 2 sec cooldown. This makes the set balanced. Looks like you cannot proc on multiple targets at the exact same time. It still procs more than any other set I've seen.




Procs on weapon ability dots, volley, poison dots, everything related to your weapon skills.

TRIKLOPS insane dps with RM:




VIPER VS RED MOUNTAIN (UPDATED)

Red Mountain is clearly waaay better in situations where there are more than 1 mob cus it procs off steel tornado, acid spray, poison injection dots and volley. Also supreme with a good rotation where you have volley, poison dots and bleed up at all times. It's also a better set in situations where you gotta dodge attacks, self heal or block cus it procs on ur dots while u do so. When you need to use bow or ranged attacks it is ofc supreme to Viper that only procs close combat melee.

Viper beats Red Mountain only in some situations when you do not have all ur dots up and are smashing at someone up close single target, and just barely.

Screens: (Sry for different sized images I don't have photoshop installed on this computer)


HEL RA NORMAL (TEST SETUP WITH VIPER + RM BAD TRAITS BAD ROTATIONS just to see the difference)

What addon do you use for the research indicators in red at the bottom of the set!?!?!?!?

Saturn

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

It would be nice to see it on more longer fights over 2 minutes. It looks like it is comparable to Viper though, in terms of how much dps it contributes. The biggest downside to it is that the fire damage does not scale with stamina, weapon crit, weapon damage, which the Viper does. I do hear that a lot of people use Red Mountain and Viper together in PvP with crit rush.

I will say that after seeing this I'm definitely going to get a full set and test it out.

If you read all posts here ull see it stomps viper completely.

In your setup that's the case, but when I use viper it gets the same dps as your red mountain set.

LEGENDARYYY

Saturn wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

It would be nice to see it on more longer fights over 2 minutes. It looks like it is comparable to Viper though, in terms of how much dps it contributes. The biggest downside to it is that the fire damage does not scale with stamina, weapon crit, weapon damage, which the Viper does. I do hear that a lot of people use Red Mountain and Viper together in PvP with crit rush.

I will say that after seeing this I'm definitely going to get a full set and test it out.

If you read all posts here ull see it stomps viper completely.

In your setup that's the case, but when I use viper it gets the same dps as your red mountain set.

Yes if ur setup includes up close melee without max dots at once they are pretty similiar

Asmael

Derra wrote: »

I love how this guy tries to create a hype around a mediocre set while having bought all the cheap pieces and relisted them for absurd prices.

Way to go mate - advanced marketing techniques

You should have seen Deshaan zone chat on PC EU. Had a guy selling gold RM, advertising something like:
"WTS [Ring of RM] 555k [Armor whatever piece of RM] 333k best stam DD set right now!"

OP, I'm curious, what's your CP distribution? I see your Viper proccing for less than RM (you're barely above the tooltip on some parses), while mine is WAAAAAAAY above it.

Shadesofkin

Regardless of what it is, run it if you like it. So long as you can pull numbers that will complete the content I'm not going to argue.

susmitds

Won't even scratch Hunding's Rage.

peniku8

I think it's useless to use logic against people which 1. don't read anything but the last and the first post in a thread and 2. deny any logic and testing just because they think elsewise.
It's sad that this thread is dead now, thanks guys, good job, you successfully reduced the informative posts to 5% with your very well thought-through comments.

susmitds wrote: »

Won't even scratch Hunding's Rage.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

this set is a joke and as well every1 that is even thinking this to be meta for stam builds... how can u even consider something that is an elemental dmg proc to be bis?.. may gad who am I playing with!!! and srls wtf that 19k dps on warrior? with tbs+vo no msa weps I get 30k+ dps on HM warrior.. so pls... what are you asking again ?

Ok now some explanation from my Side regarding this:

Xsorus wrote: »

Looking at your logs

Single Target Viper > Red Mountain
AOE Red mountain > Viper

Legend is using Surprise Attack as his main skill he is weaving.
SA is a Class Melee attack, which procs Viper but NOT Red Mountain.
Rapid Strikes is a Weapon nonMelee attack, which procs Red Mountain but NOT Viper.
So, if you're using Surprise Attack or a heavy attack build, Red Mountain will proc way less often than Viper,
if you're using RS (which is the best dps source, and thats what it's all about anyways), Viper will proc way less often than Red Mountain.
I won't go through all the calculations again since I posted all that earlier, if you wanna red them, they're on Page 2 I think.
Oh and btw, Jabs is a nonMelee Class attack, it won't proc any of these sets


Please guys, for the love of god. Don't post something like 'I think Viper is better than RM cus XXX' (see me quotes above for hilarious examples).
You have clearly done no testing, you don't know what you're talking about and your comment isn't contributing to the discussion, it just makes you look stupid.

I really hope to get some cheap RM pieces so that I can do some real testing to compare these two sets.
Real testing means: I have BIS gear, I have BIS CP distribution, I'm a Khajit. I will test without groupbuffs since they're just too unreliable. I will dps for 100 seconds with TBS and RM, do 5 each and take the average and post some results.
As far as my theorycrafting goes, both sets are very close, with RM dominating Single Target by 2% and TBS dominating grand aoe by a small margin.
Stay tuned, I'm here to provide quality information ;D

dagonbeer

Seems like a decent set in pvp (not as good as viper though, since you won't have 3-4 DoTs running on your opponent at all times) and a viable one in pve.

Can anyone test if merciless charge procs RM? I doubt it, but it is initiated by a weapon attack, even if it's not the source of the DoT.

kadar

Asmael wrote: »

Well, guards in Wrothgar do have 10m HP, but they also use bash, so you need to block (thus lose time, makes parses unreliable, etc).

Or grab a tank, that might be something.

More on topic, I feel like RM is too similar to Viper to warrant its place as new BiS (and Viper is just not good enough).

WTB actual DPS dummy.

YES. Want dummy. Thread hijacked.

kadar

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

this set is a joke and as well every1 that is even thinking this to be meta for stam builds... how can u even consider something that is an elemental dmg proc to be bis?.. may gad who am I playing with!!! and srls wtf that 19k dps on warrior? with tbs+vo no msa weps I get 30k+ dps on HM warrior.. so pls... what are you asking again ?

Comes to thread. Calls everyone using RM a joke. Can't spell. Insults test DPS parse. Boasts about own DPS. Can't spell.
Thank you for your valuable input...

Good on you guys for pulling good numbers with an updated set. Lurking here to see more results as this is tested.

LEGENDARYYY

dagonbeer wrote: »

Seems like a decent set in pvp (not as good as viper though, since you won't have 3-4 DoTs running on your opponent at all times) and a viable one in pve.

Can anyone test if merciless charge procs RM? I doubt it, but it is initiated by a weapon attack, even if it's not the source of the DoT.

Dont forget about when u use bow and its dots though many use bow offhand, me included.

LEGENDARYYY

splitsand wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

UPDATE 07.08.16, So far tests have concluded that Red Mountain > Viper by a huge margin. We are still investigating how RM performs compared to TBS. During dps tests and calculations they seem very similiar, but it seems RM in average is slightly stronger, especially in non-buffed situations. It is hard to measure RM and TBS cause its a proc vs static dmg increase. This also means that RM can proc in situations where TBS would never do as much dmg, say on a target with just poison injection on it, or when you are running for ur life while ur volley alone is still proccing tons of dmg on mobs. Sometimes if ur unlucky RM could have a low proc rate and might not proc at all. That said, no matter the outcome of new calculations, red mountain, tbs and VO are now the best stam sets. Without VO you can run tbs + red mountain which is absolutely lovely cus the shadow and thief boon increases dmg and crit rate of the flame proc.

Set picture:



During testing it seems to have somewhere close to 2 sec cooldown. This makes the set balanced. Looks like you cannot proc on multiple targets at the exact same time. It still procs more than any other set I've seen.




Procs on weapon ability dots, volley, poison dots, everything related to your weapon skills.

TRIKLOPS insane dps with RM:




VIPER VS RED MOUNTAIN (UPDATED)

Red Mountain is clearly waaay better in situations where there are more than 1 mob cus it procs off steel tornado, acid spray, poison injection dots and volley. Also supreme with a good rotation where you have volley, poison dots and bleed up at all times. It's also a better set in situations where you gotta dodge attacks, self heal or block cus it procs on ur dots while u do so. When you need to use bow or ranged attacks it is ofc supreme to Viper that only procs close combat melee.

Viper beats Red Mountain only in some situations when you do not have all ur dots up and are smashing at someone up close single target, and just barely.

Screens: (Sry for different sized images I don't have photoshop installed on this computer)


HEL RA NORMAL (TEST SETUP WITH VIPER + RM BAD TRAITS BAD ROTATIONS just to see the difference)

What addon do you use for the research indicators in red at the bottom of the set!?!?!?!?

harven's trait and style, its a great addon!

Asmael

Alright, since I'm having a competition with my partner, and he's using RM, I figured I'd post some actual parses on the matter:

Would have more data to share if not for a tank who doesn't know how to taunt (literally) and made my partner leave nSO.

Take note that those parses are on an Argonian, so add +8% crit to that. We'll try to get more consistent data on this.

Flak

Although I can't play the game atm this topic wouldn't let me rest so I looked deeper into it and have to admit now my calculation was wrong (shame on me ).

So theoretically I agree this set should be BiS, 8k base damage every 2 seconds should give insane DPS, but on the other hand these screens look quite underwhelming 1.6-2.2k seems way too low to me although it's elemental damage. Even on the very nice parse it only procs every ~4 seconds.

So theirs a few possible reasons that came to my mind:

Does it scale with Armor or Spellpentration?
Is there a long animation involved that slows down the proc?
Does it scale with Precise Strikes or Elfborn?

As I said I can't test stuff out myself atm but I'll try in a week when I'm back home.

Cheers Flák

LEGENDARYYY

Flak wrote: »

Although I can't play the game atm this topic wouldn't let me rest so I looked deeper into it and have to admit now my calculation was wrong (shame on me ).

So theoretically I agree this set should be BiS, 8k base damage every 2 seconds should give insane DPS, but on the other hand these screens look quite underwhelming 1.6-2.2k seems way too low to me although it's elemental damage. Even on the very nice parse it only procs every ~4 seconds.

So theirs a few possible reasons that came to my mind:

Does it scale with Armor or Spellpentration?
Is there a long animation involved that slows down the proc?
Does it scale with Precise Strikes or Elfborn?

As I said I can't test stuff out myself atm but I'll try in a week when I'm back home.

Cheers Flák

my dps is low cus I've been tanking for 5k hours in ESO and I suck as dd when it comes to rotations etc. Add that to the fact that I wore well fitted purple stuff while testing RM vs Viper. It was by no means meant to be used as calculations of the RMs proc.

Proper calculations can be used with triklops screenshot cus thats about what you can at most expect from the set, 3.7k dps average over time or near it.

I've been using full RM set for days now and keep in mind that this set makes it possible to burst down a target and get skyrocketing dps the first 4 secs. Perfect in vMSA or vDSA on the targets that hurt the most. Also you can put down volley and poison inject somewhere and have it do insane dmg while ur dodging boss mechanics etc. TBS can never do that in the same way.

Then again TBS is a more reliable source of dmg, and in some fights RM can fall short if ur unlucky. But I think overall its definitely worth the risk cause it is also fun as hell to use.

Flak

@LEGENDARYYY : I think you got me wrong there, I'm not talking about your overall DPS, solely about the DPS by RM.

And I totally agree on the burst capabilities, just trying to find ways to make it more effective.