Malubeth

KenaPKK

@krathos because it's been established since then that the set is still bugged as ***. What part of a 6k tooltip suggests that 11k+ heal ticks are working as intended? Discussing nerfs is a waste of time and risks spreading misinformation that the set is working as intended and actually needs a nerf. This is dangerous with all the monkeys following the herd on the forums.

I jumped on your comment because it was the last on the thread which suggested a nerf. Does that offend you? In fact, I'd gladly still stand by a range nerf, which I suggested ages ago as an alternative should an actual nerf be needed after the bugs are fixed.

But those bugs have to be the center of conversation until they are fixed. To nerf the set without fixing them would be reckless, and I will keep harping on that every time I see someone sidetrack the conversation with talk of nerfs.

krathos

KenaPKK wrote: »

@krathos because it's been established since then that the set is still bugged as ***. What part of a 6k tooltip suggests that 11k+ heal ticks are working as intended? Discussing nerfs is a waste of time and risks spreading misinformation that the set is working as intended and actually needs a nerf. This is dangerous with all the monkeys following the herd on the forums.

I jumped on your comment because it was the last on the thread which suggested a nerf. Does that offend you? In fact, I'd gladly still stand by a range nerf, which I suggested ages ago as an alternative should an actual nerf be needed after the bugs are fixed.

But those bugs have to be the center of conversation until they are fixed. To nerf the set without fixing them would be reckless, and I will keep harping on that every time I see someone sidetrack the conversation with talk of nerfs.

@KenaPKK and there have been and still are countless threads on shuffle stacking, the elusive insta-kill macros, and other mythical "exploit" bullshittery. Sometimes things get out of hand here and arguments are made based on wild speculation and the word of others like a game of telephone.

I've seen the screenshots and complaints, etc, but none w/ datestamps that show they're from before the fix from ZoS a few weeks ago. In fact people are still circulating stills from Kodi's 1v14 video as proof that it's still bugged when the video was prior to the alleged fix.

Do I personally think it is still bugged? Sure, it's very likely but I approach both sides of this w/ a bit of skepticism. Besides, this thread is about tweaking the set under the guise that the bug is fixed and it is indeed overperforming if you read the OP by jules.

Jules wrote: »

To anyone being honest with themselves, the set is overperforming. Yes it is not proccing 20k+ heals randomly anymore. Yes, the bug was fixed. However, the set remains very unbalanced in pvp.

How do we fix this? What are some reasonable adjustments to leave the set as a viable choice without it being the BIS carry all that it currently is?

Discuss.

I don't run the set. I haven't since I found out about the bug. I'd like to see a concise and well thought out video w/ timestamps showing the remaining bugs in effect. Until then I think we can keep this thread about what Jules originally described.

krathos

double post

Bakven

How about changing the beam breaks if target is farther away than 10 meters to beam breaks after 5-10 seconds with a cool down added to it?

PainfulFAFA

KenaPKK wrote: »

@krathos because it's been established since then that the set is still bugged as ***. What part of a 6k tooltip suggests that 11k+ heal ticks are working as intended? Discussing nerfs is a waste of time and risks spreading misinformation that the set is working as intended and actually needs a nerf. This is dangerous with all the monkeys following the herd on the forums.

I jumped on your comment because it was the last on the thread which suggested a nerf. Does that offend you? In fact, I'd gladly still stand by a range nerf, which I suggested ages ago as an alternative should an actual nerf be needed after the bugs are fixed.

But those bugs have to be the center of conversation until they are fixed. To nerf the set without fixing them would be reckless, and I will keep harping on that every time I see someone sidetrack the conversation with talk of nerfs.

6k tooltip is a lowball estimate, there are ways to increase that tooltip up to 8-9k.
11k heals from malubeth is actually plausible (not a bug) because of the way zenimax has coded this *** set

-ignores battlespirit
-can crit
-can be buffed with mending/vitality/30%bonus
-can be buffed with CPs

11k+ heals, imo, is not necessarily a bug. Yes, there was a bug that was giving 20k+ heals, but now thats its fixed, i truly believe the large heals people are getting is actually working as intended (not necessarily balanced, coz its not lol). After 1000 threads about malubeth, people are starting to figure out how to buff the tooltip values along with what i mentioned above. If im wrong, and its a bug, fine... fix it zos

zyk

@krathos

The Scourge Harvester bug addressed in 2.4.8 (June 19) did not fix everything wrong with Malubeth. This screenshot was taken weeks after 2.4.8 by @sharee:



There are plenty of players who have noted this and videos floating around too.

It's obviously bugged because the healing value varies so wildly and no one can provide a plausible explanation to support this behaviour as intended.

KenaPKK

Thank you @zyk for digging that up.

@PainfulFAFA the damage from Malubeth is halved by battle spirit. The heal is affected by battle spirit because it is based off of damage dealt. There is no way you can make even a 10 tooltip yield 11k heal ticks every half second for the duration of the beam.

krathos

@zyk

I know I've seen this screenshot before, albeit w/o the context you provided, but I just wish someone would provide indisputable evidence that it is bugged. This shot is great but there are no datestamps, no context, etc. It's not that I don't think it's bugged. I'm just saying I'd like to see more concrete evidence. And that's about all bugs/issues that get talked about over and over and over here. It's rare someone posts solid evidence that is impossible to dispute instead people break down into hearsay and conjecture based on what they think they saw, what once was, or what their guild is talking about.

It doesn't matter anyways. If it's bugged, fix it, my original comment was in response to kena jumping on the balance suggestions in a thread about balance suggestions assuming it is working as intended.

Zeni won't do anything w/ this screenshot. If people want it fixed a really video breakdown needs to be made.

zyk

Here's what Malubeth looks like when it's working properly. From @Joy_Division



Other than being bugged, no one has provided a plausible explanation of how it goes from that to:



@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno Please provide insight.

Armitas

I don't use major mending or vitality and I have had it hit for something like 11k after the crit fix, so I don't think it's heal stacking. I wonder if multiple beams are going off from multiple attackers and stacking but not animating.

Jules

If the set is indeed still bugged, can someone show me a SS of insane heals happening today? -Perhaps with some add on or confirmation of date in photo? It's hard to confirm and really get the ball rolling if we can't even confirm when SS were taken, and whether they were before or after ZOS' fix. If it's indeed still bugged (which I'm not denying, just need thorough reporting), then it should be easy enough to produce.

And if it is, then @KenaPKK is right. It should be bug fixed before talking balance. I was under the impression it was 'fixed' and just OP.

zyk

@jules

@Sharee took the screenshot I posted here on July 9.

KenaPKK

@Armitas thank you for the input.

That could be feasible, but in Sharee's screenshot alone, it'd require like 7 beams going at once onto 7 different enemies. Also would separate beams not be separate entries in the combat log, at least since they'd be hitting separate targets with different names?

Would be nice to have some Malubeth videos posted to break down procs giving these big heals in a controlled environment. I'd make one if I were online.

krathos

I am online now @zyk @Jules @KenaPKK if any of you want to test. @krathosstormforged

Erock25

@Armitas I've had large heal tics with no healing buffs and while only fighting one person. Also it can happen right at the very first moment of a fight so it's not like 6 dots on you all procced it at once.

@jules I can take SS later. Maybe even post a video, but I can assure you it's still happening.

PainfulFAFA

KenaPKK wrote: »

Thank you @zyk for digging that up.

@PainfulFAFA the damage from Malubeth is halved by battle spirit. The heal is affected by battle spirit because it is based off of damage dealt. There is no way you can make even a 10 tooltip yield 11k heal ticks every half second for the duration of the beam.

@KenaPKK
The heal from malubeth IS NOT based off of damage dealt. Its based off of the tooltip (a flat value) and is divided into ticks. Its only the damage thats halved... malubeth leeching your HP 2k-3k per tick would be insane lol

Malubeth is also considered a DoT, which can be buffed with Thauma to get those ridiculous tooltips. Since its a DoT, it is also considered a damage ability which also scales off of spell damage (my tooltip increases when i use DW, instead of a staff for example).

Also, yes 11k hps from malubeth is crazy but theres plenty of questions id like to ask first from those screenshots. Not trying to debunk, just trying to understand how hes getting crazy heals coz i have NEVER seen those crazy tether heals on my toons but i've used malubeth long before it became FOTM to realize its overperforming/broken

KenaPKK

@PainfulFAFA "steals" health

Malubeth was specifically mentioned by ZOS as one of the skills and sets being affected in the patch which made heals based on damage dealt not double hit by battle spirit. Swallow soul was also in the list.

Aaaand its dot does not tick for 2-3k damage. There are even screenshots here showing 3 digit ticks as pretty standard.

I used Malubeth since around the holidays when I finally got a good helm drop. It didn't overperforming like this until very recently, so you may not have noticed anything until now. Heck, I never noticed anything until others pointed it out to me because I had done my testing so long ago and stopped paying attention to it.

Forestd16b14_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Especially brutal when youre being hit by dots and attacks like rapid strikes and jabs. Instant procs. I was yelling at templars to stop jabbing the guy so I could burst him down properly as he lay on the ground fully healing over and over. Tanks not even managing stam with this laying on the ground unless faced with proper burst builds. All the more reason that burst is needed over dot/sustain-challenging playstyles. Try dueling a malubeth with lots of dots and rapidstrikes. Its pretty silly!

Shut up please just shut up you have no idea what balancing is and are the last person to suggest it. Please all due respect shut up buffing burst damage is the last thing PvP needs right now.

Want to fix this and show who is a real tank and who is a cheese player ? Just remove the extra 30% healing problem solved.

KenaPKK

@Forestd16b14_ESO wrong.

He isn't saying to buff burst. He's saying that Malubeth encourages burst play styles and makes sustain builds less lethal.

And the 30% healing bonus isn't what's broken. How does a 214 damage tick become an 11.6k heal tick with just this extra buff? Just no. Learn some respect.

PainfulFAFA

KenaPKK wrote: »

@PainfulFAFA "steals" health

and there lies the ambiguity.
Theres many interpretations of that ONE phrase but nowhere does it say it deals damage, its implied\

Its implied that it deals damage because it says "steal" and that would explains why the "damage dealt" by the tether's steal when it procs is affected by battlespirit because stealing 2k-4k PER TICK from ur enemy PER PROC would be OP.

PainfulFAFA

KenaPKK wrote: »

@PainfulFAFA "steals" health

Malubeth was specifically mentioned by ZOS as one of the skills and sets being affected in the patch which made heals based on damage dealt not double hit by battle spirit. Swallow soul was also in the list.

This is an entirely different subject, that kinda pertains to Malubeth.
The double hit by battlespirit simply means that when you use an ability like Sweeps, Swallow Soul, Crit Surge, your heals are nerfed by 50% even after the damage u dealt was nerfed by 50% meaning ur heals was incredibly low right?

Well, the problem was that damage AND heals are both affected by battlespirit so when my Sweeps hit for 16k, battlespirit would kick in and nerf it to 8k. So that means that my heals would be 35% (whatever the tooltip for sweeps say) of 8k. After that, battlespirit would kick in AGAIN and reduce that heal again. This second battlespirit was not neccesary because the damage is already affected by B.S.

Malubeth is a special case because it implies it does damage (because it "steals") and therefore the double battlespirit was affecting it (meaning that the tether's healing AND damage ticks were being cut in half.). Remember, all those abilities that heal based on damage dealt actually have a value for that.... Sweeps heal for 35% of damage dealt, Surge heals for 50% of damage dealt..... and what about Malubeth? How is the healing based on damage dealt actually calculated on malubeth? Is it based off of the tooltip value? If so, how much healing does it do per tick and how is damage then caluclated? So what ZOS did in 2.4 was remove the battlespirit from the healing ticks but kept them on the damage ticks because obviously that would be broken op stealing 2k-4k heals per tether ticks from ur enemy.
Imo, for this specific set, the healing IS NOT based on damage dealt... its the other way around... THE DAMAGE is based off of healing dealt if that makes any sense. If my malubeth says it steals 7k health, its gonna HEAL me for 7k (divided into ticks) and the implied damage ticks will be affected by B.S..
The way you make it sound is that if my Malubeth says it steals 7k health, it does 7k damage (divided into ticks and affected bt B.S.) and then the heals is based off of that damage. imo that doesnt make sense and thats not how it works atm.


Idk everything about Malubeth ambiguous. It needs a complete revamp and a better tooltip description

Erock25

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Thank you @zyk for digging that up.

@PainfulFAFA the damage from Malubeth is halved by battle spirit. The heal is affected by battle spirit because it is based off of damage dealt. There is no way you can make even a 10 tooltip yield 11k heal ticks every half second for the duration of the beam.

@KenaPKK
The heal from malubeth IS NOT based off of damage dealt. Its based off of the tooltip (a flat value) and is divided into ticks. Its only the damage thats halved... malubeth leeching your HP 2k-3k per tick would be insane lol

Malubeth is also considered a DoT, which can be buffed with Thauma to get those ridiculous tooltips. Since its a DoT, it is also considered a damage ability which also scales off of spell damage (my tooltip increases when i use DW, instead of a staff for example).

Also, yes 11k hps from malubeth is crazy but theres plenty of questions id like to ask first from those screenshots. Not trying to debunk, just trying to understand how hes getting crazy heals coz i have NEVER seen those crazy heals on my toons but i've used malubeth long before it became FOTM to realize its overperforming/broken

@PainfulFAFA Have you gone back and watched videos of yourself fighting? You won't notice the ridiculous heals unless you go back and watch.

Zheg

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Especially brutal when youre being hit by dots and attacks like rapid strikes and jabs. Instant procs. I was yelling at templars to stop jabbing the guy so I could burst him down properly as he lay on the ground fully healing over and over. Tanks not even managing stam with this laying on the ground unless faced with proper burst builds. All the more reason that burst is needed over dot/sustain-challenging playstyles. Try dueling a malubeth with lots of dots and rapidstrikes. Its pretty silly!

Shut up please just shut up you have no idea what balancing is and are the last person to suggest it. Please all due respect shut up buffing burst damage is the last thing PvP needs right now.

Want to fix this and show who is a real tank and who is a cheese player ? Just remove the extra 30% healing problem solved.

I'm one of the first to call him out when he's making nonsense on the forums - and usually I do so with a hefty dose of sarcasm. That post was correct though. I ran the set before and after it was broken, before - you really tried to make use of the 30% heal and time your bats/heals when it procced (didn't have the major vitality potion back then either). The channeled heal was ok, but it wasn't what kept you alive. Fast forward to present day when it's broken, you can stack the potion buff with major mending and malubeth - and the channeled heal is bugged and sometimes gives absurd heals. So much so, that I was able to get a double proc the first night I wore it, and survived many situations where I was low stam/OOS but the heal was keeping me up anyway. Heal needs to go back to being a modest hot and that's it, hardcode the value and be done with it. With the potion buff being added, malubeth could be changed to major vitality and it would function the same way it did back in the day when it was still viable for a tanky spec but no where near OP. You've always been able to stack major mending with malubeth, but being able to stack vitality from the potion on top of those 2 is a new thing. It's that plus the bugged heal that is making everyone go insane.

Rohamad_Ali

Malubeth was a plague all night . Swarm after swarm of Templars bouncing up and down spamming jabs and heals . Watching everyone in the super op evil set of cheese being bad was not the PvP refresher I needed .

Alcast

Master_Kas wrote: »

Just make it to major mending so classes without mm can make use of it without using a resto heavy attack..

@Wrobel

Outer_Rim

KenaPKK wrote: »

@krathos because it's been established since then that the set is still bugged as ***. What part of a 6k tooltip suggests that 11k+ heal ticks are working as intended? Discussing nerfs is a waste of time and risks spreading misinformation that the set is working as intended and actually needs a nerf. This is dangerous with all the monkeys following the herd on the forums.

I jumped on your comment because it was the last on the thread which suggested a nerf. Does that offend you? In fact, I'd gladly still stand by a range nerf, which I suggested ages ago as an alternative should an actual nerf be needed after the bugs are fixed.

But those bugs have to be the center of conversation until they are fixed. To nerf the set without fixing them would be reckless, and I will keep harping on that every time I see someone sidetrack the conversation with talk of nerfs.

You should honestly be resting, you almost seem angry. Ease up on the painkillers. And take a break from forums.

ZoM_Head

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I have no problem with it. I can kill the same people whether or not they're using malubeth.

Same here, it is a very good set, was double dipping CP previously but it got fixed.

Just because a lot of people run it, does not mean it needs a nerf, i myself do not use it at all.

Docmandu

It's not the only item that has broken heals, which makes me think something else is bugged in the game (weird, right.. bugs in this game, who would have known!).

For example, I noticed Bahraha's Curse also has instances that it gives heals that are way way bigger than "normal". (6171 heal on non-CP, while normally it does like 500-800). Reported it on the forum https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2833225/#Comment_2833225 but ZOS never commented on it.

To me, it seems to be a similar issue. Wouldn't surprise me that this "bug" would also trigger for damage in certain cases.

But.. we all know ZOS ain't going to fix it any time soon.. if ever.

Publius_Scipio

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Especially brutal when youre being hit by dots and attacks like rapid strikes and jabs. Instant procs. I was yelling at templars to stop jabbing the guy so I could burst him down properly as he lay on the ground fully healing over and over. Tanks not even managing stam with this laying on the ground unless faced with proper burst builds. All the more reason that burst is needed over dot/sustain-challenging playstyles. Try dueling a malubeth with lots of dots and rapidstrikes. Its pretty silly!

Shut up please just shut up you have no idea what balancing is and are the last person to suggest it. Please all due respect shut up buffing burst damage is the last thing PvP needs right now.

Want to fix this and show who is a real tank and who is a cheese player ? Just remove the extra 30% healing problem solved.

Disrespectful!

KenaPKK

That comment about Bahraha's Curse is important. If the bug is not part of the set's coding itself, then that would explain why ZOS hasn't found it yet.