How do you PC people even play?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Miszou wrote: »

+1 for Logitech G13 Gamepad and Logitech G9x mouse.

This keyboard is awesome!.. I use the Logitech G13, Logitech G500s mouse, with some keybindings on a Logitech G105 main keyboard. Atm, I have approx. 80+ "actions" at my fingertips with 1-2 keystrokes, including e-motes, guild and chat channels, gameplay, etc. I have my dodge roll on right wheel and weapon swap on left wheel on my mouse, so it is extremly fast and my "Push to Talk" for Ts is on mouse also. Tbh, I would be SO lost using a controller again! Last console owned? 2004? lmao!)

sagitter

I play the way i always played most of the games, since 20-25 years ago with my Amiga 500!!! mouse+keyboard 4LIFE.

elvigy01

Wow, the things people buy to make this easier. I just use a keyboard and mouse. I use my left ring finger for W, pinky for 1 and 2, middle finger for 3 and 4, index finger for 5 and 6 (I have my ultimate mapped to 6 since I hit it too often by accident when it was on R).

Strafing sideways, I have remapped to Q (pinky) and E (middle finger) so moving is easy. In battle though, I mostly use the mouse to spin and move while keeping my ring finger on W or dropping to S to back up, while using the other fingers to fire off abilities.

It sounds complicated but it's really just muscle memory at this point. I don't even think about it, just do it.

HatchetHaro wrote: »

It actually takes getting used to using the keyboard well. It requires only three fingers to be able to move in all directions and use skills simultaneously, and all of them take part in both movement and using skills.
In any case, movement uses both mouse and keyboard; mouse for the direction reference and keyboard for the actual movement.
As for some awkward key placement, well that's why you can swap them around. I generally put the skills I most frequently use on 2, 3, and 4.
My pinky can reach 1, 2. My middle finger can reach 2, 3, (4 as well but I generally don't). My index finger can reach 3, 4, 5.
If you have to use a key, however, it would mean that there's one direction you cannot move in. In normal adventuring it doesn't affect me at all; but in dungeons, as a tank, I move and strafe around a lot trying to taunt every enemy I can get my hands on. Countering this is actually pretty simple: I just switch directions if I have to lift a movement key to activate an ability. So if I alternate between using abilities 2 and 4 while moving constantly, I would also alternate between A and D so at least one finger is on a movement key, and in-game I would be strafing left and right. This may seem to limit movement on PC, but we also have a mouse, and if I strafe to the left while looking right, I technically would be going forward in my initial direction of view. The sheer flexibility and speed a mouse provides actually makes the whole thing much easier.
Experienced PC gamers know how to use both keyboard and mouse in tandem with each other, and with precision. You just need that experience.

Ditto. I just use a keyboard and mouse. I use my left ring finger for W, pinky for 1 and 2, middle finger for 3 and 4, index finger for 5 and 6 (I have my ultimate mapped to 6 since I hit it too often by accident when it was on R).

Strafing sideways, I have remapped to Q (pinky) and E (middle finger) so moving is easy. In battle though, I mostly use the mouse to spin and move while keeping my ring finger on W or dropping to S to back up, while using the other fingers to fire off abilities.

It sounds complicated but it's really just muscle memory at this point. I don't even think about it, just do it.

MasterSpatula

Let's just say I drink a lot of potions on accident and occasionally fire off the wrong ability. Also, I've been known to swap weapons without realizing it.

ArchMikem

Can you guys walk your characters? Or do you just always start at a jog when you hit the movement keys. Is there an actual keybinding for walk?

I'm getting into one of my nitpicks of PC gaming.

Averya_Teira

ArchMikem wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

You know, as someone who has used a PC exclusively for gaming since 1984, I have a similar question about how anyone can use a controller. Don't you find it very limited? We are are used to what we know.

It is actually limited yeah. It feels like having the right and left bumpers AND triggers in addition to the traditional four colored buttons was a god send to developers. lol Although having the Swap Weapon Bar action linked to the right directional pad is my only complaint since I have to either use my left thumb to do it, thus sacrificing my movement for crucial seconds, or my right which takes my view off whatever I'm fighting if I'm still moving around. So then I have to swap weapons and then reposition again.

I REALLY want to try ESO on PC, but I have four characters on Xbox I don't want to give up on/neglect. I really wish ZOS allowed more cross platform transfers.

You have a problem if it takes you "crucial seconds" to weapon swap, more like half a second...

mildlylucid

ArchMikem wrote: »

Can you guys walk your characters? Or do you just always start at a jog when you hit the movement keys. Is there an actual keybinding for walk?

I'm getting into one of my nitpicks of PC gaming.

There is a keybind for toggle walk which is unbound by default

Lokey0024

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

At some point I tried this device (razer nostromo), and got hooked on using it for any game. It fits the left hand perfectly and has directional pad for your thumb as well as various trigger buttons and more than enough keys for all abilities, menus and add on functions

Best gamepad ever created. Im rockin the OG n52 still.

SanTii.92

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Macros are against the TOS. I wouldn't go advertising it.

Source? All I heard was it was a grey area and they have not explicitly told us it was forbidden.

LOL the single time any @ZOS has ever made a statement toward animation canceling and yet somehow has forever become the 'proof' that its totally part of the game and will/can never change
This is amusing. Still is. More than a year later.

Nope, the 'proof' is that it hadn't been changed for more than two years now. Obviously Zos is perfectly fine with it. So you have that.

WuffyCerulei

I use the controller on PC and futzed with the controls so they're similar to Skyrim. Also conveniently have a key bound to toggle between UIs when I wanna link several things in chat.

Elsonso

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

This keyboard is awesome!.. I use the Logitech G13, Logitech G500s mouse, with some keybindings on a Logitech G105 main keyboard. Atm, I have approx. 80+ "actions" at my fingertips with 1-2 keystrokes, including e-motes, guild and chat channels, gameplay, etc. I have my dodge roll on right wheel and weapon swap on left wheel on my mouse, so it is extremly fast and my "Push to Talk" for Ts is on mouse also. Tbh, I would be SO lost using a controller again! Last console owned? 2004? lmao!)

Warning. Macros are against ToS. Be careful about those emotes and chat channel "keystrokes" that might start with "/" and send a string of characters for you. This has been explicitly identified as a violation of the ToS.

kadar

This thread turned out to be VERY interesting...

1) I didn't realize how many PC folks don't play with default configurations! The only changes I made was to bind break free to one mouse button so I didn't accidentally stop my regen when using the default setting.

2) I didn't realize Macros were against the rules!

3) I didn't realize so many people used Macros. And I still don't really understand why. BUT, this explains why I get so many rage tells from people who think I'm using a Macro....

I'm kind of on the same page as a few others here when I say, I don't think that any good players actually use macros for combat. It's too unrealiable, you can't adapt to the situation, and it's...completely unnecessary.

Take the last rage tell I got for example: I ganked a guy with a Bow Heavy attack, cancelled with a Poison Injection, weapon swap, Crit rushed him, and Light Attacked cancelling with an Executioner. 6 actions in the span of 3 global cooldowns from the 3 abilities I used. To me this seemed completely normal and run of the mill. If he reacted quicker, he would have lived to fight me toe-to-toe. He didn't, so he died. To my surprise, I get a "Nice macro lol."

RobTheAxe

ArchMikem wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

You know, as someone who has used a PC exclusively for gaming since 1984, I have a similar question about how anyone can use a controller. Don't you find it very limited? We are are used to what we know.

It is actually limited yeah. It feels like having the right and left bumpers AND triggers in addition to the traditional four colored buttons was a god send to developers. lol Although having the Swap Weapon Bar action linked to the right directional pad is my only complaint since I have to either use my left thumb to do it, thus sacrificing my movement for crucial seconds, or my right which takes my view off whatever I'm fighting if I'm still moving around. So then I have to swap weapons and then reposition again.

I REALLY want to try ESO on PC, but I have four characters on Xbox I don't want to give up on/neglect. I really wish ZOS allowed more cross platform transfers.

Fellow warrior of the Pact...

Try to use your left pointer finger...

If using the magical device known as Playstation controller you can access the 'D PAD' directly with the left pointer and maintain control over both 'thumbstick'

If using the magical device known as Xbox controller you take over the left stick with the left pointer while the left thumb press on D pad..

I hope this will help you try this ancient martial technique

Shadesofkin

Honestly I ask the same question of console players all the time, It feels clunky and useless to me.

I totes get where you're coming from.

mike_de

Precision is the answer. That's the reason I use mouse and keyboard in FPS games. And that's the reason that there are not many crossover games between consoles and PC.

It would be terrible frustrating for top console players to loose all the time in FPS against mediocre PC players.

If you are skilled, you are able to detect an enemy, aim immediate and shoot almost the same time. In the head. Every *** time.

You are able to change aim in an instant, doing this with 3-4 people very short after another. After that, they call you names, mark you as a cheater using aimbots. ... But it's only skill and muscle memory.

That is the difference between the clunky aiming with controllers and Mice. Add the possibility to get a mouse with more keys than you can ever remember, and the possibility to strafe sideways, circling contant around a target, you know why I prefer this combination every day in a FPS or MMO like this.

I use the appropriate tools for the task at hand.

In action ARPG I use joypads every time, because in that case they beat Mouse/keyboard usage every time.

mike_de

ArchMikem wrote: »

Can you guys walk your characters? Or do you just always start at a jog when you hit the movement keys. Is there an actual keybinding for walk?

I'm getting into one of my nitpicks of PC gaming.

Of course, You are able to switch between walking, running and fast running.

Egonieser

I have the exact same question when using a controller. On a PC keyboard I can simultaneously use up to 6 keys (5 fingers + back of my palm for pressing Ctrl+key) with one hand without ever stopping the action. It's like playing a piano, literally. Having played Piano and Used PC keyboard since 1995 - my fingers are lightning fast and nimble, practice makes perfect, and it's deffo more accurate and more flexible than a controller as you have dozens, even hundreds of key setup combinations at your disposal - which ever fits you best. Anyway, ESO is easy, you should've seen me beat macros with just 1 hand in LoTRO, and that game had 6 skillbars with 10 skills on each bar...
Like I said - practice, nothing more will help.

Moonscythe

RobTheAxe wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

You know, as someone who has used a PC exclusively for gaming since 1984, I have a similar question about how anyone can use a controller. Don't you find it very limited? We are are used to what we know.

It is actually limited yeah. It feels like having the right and left bumpers AND triggers in addition to the traditional four colored buttons was a god send to developers. lol Although having the Swap Weapon Bar action linked to the right directional pad is my only complaint since I have to either use my left thumb to do it, thus sacrificing my movement for crucial seconds, or my right which takes my view off whatever I'm fighting if I'm still moving around. So then I have to swap weapons and then reposition again.

I REALLY want to try ESO on PC, but I have four characters on Xbox I don't want to give up on/neglect. I really wish ZOS allowed more cross platform transfers.

Fellow warrior of the Pact...

Try to use your left pointer finger...

If using the magical device known as Playstation controller you can access the 'D PAD' directly with the left pointer and maintain control over both 'thumbstick'

If using the magical device known as Xbox controller you take over the left stick with the left pointer while the left thumb press on D pad..

I hope this will help you try this ancient martial technique

Actually, I can't. My left pointer doesn't bend that way. I just use it for the bumper/trigger and fast swap the thumb between stick and pad. Am I doing something wrong that I don't need to use them at the same time? ...is that why i die...

GivvumBoane

ArchMikem wrote: »

This is going to be a VERY dumb topic, but I'm genuinely curious as I have no experience at all with PC MMO gameplay.

How do you guys even play ESO on PC? Like, I noticed the abilities are cast using the number keys, so I'm assuming it's the keys above A, W, S, and D. But trying that myself as practice, trying to hit the keys imagining that I'm trying to move around and cast something just feels incredibly awkward on my hand. Do you literally make stuttering stop and go movements cause you're constantly taking your finger off the forward key to cast an ability? Or is this just a matter of do it enough and it becomes habit sort of thing?

As an Xbox One player it seems fairly simple to me as movement is on the left side of the controller using the left thumbstick and all the abilities are cast using the right hand buttons, so you can cast without worrying about your movement. Though I pre-emptively bought ESO through Steam when it was on-sale as a sort of safety net in-case something goes wrong with the Console, I just feel odd about the control layout difference.

Gaming meeces

ConeOfSilence

I just plug in one of these and use x-padder

wenchmore420b14_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

This keyboard is awesome!.. I use the Logitech G13, Logitech G500s mouse, with some keybindings on a Logitech G105 main keyboard. Atm, I have approx. 80+ "actions" at my fingertips with 1-2 keystrokes, including e-motes, guild and chat channels, gameplay, etc. I have my dodge roll on right wheel and weapon swap on left wheel on my mouse, so it is extremly fast and my "Push to Talk" for Ts is on mouse also. Tbh, I would be SO lost using a controller again! Last console owned? 2004? lmao!)

Warning. Macros are against ToS. Be careful about those emotes and chat channel "keystrokes" that might start with "/" and send a string of characters for you. This has been explicitly identified as a violation of the ToS.

Thank you for this. I am aware of the ToS, but my "/ " stuff is mostly /lute or /guild2, etc. Innocent stuff. As far as actually macroing combat or several keybindings/attacks, I can macro those, but I dont. I feel that is cheating..Closest I have gotten to a warning is when I send mass mail to my guild mates..Lol...But thank you for the info!
Huzzah!

Verbalinkontinenz

How do you guys even play ESO on PC? Like, I noticed the abilities are cast using the number keys, so I'm assuming it's the keys above A, W, S, and D. But trying that myself as practice, trying to hit the keys imagining that I'm trying to move around and cast something just feels incredibly awkward on my hand. Do you literally make stuttering stop and go movements cause you're constantly taking your finger off the forward key to cast an ability? Or is this just a matter of do it enough and it becomes habit sort of thing?

i would have same problem an a console. u already answered your question: habits. i am btw left handed, left hand on mouse, right on keyboard. i am able to also type blind, i dont think about it, my hand meanwhile just does and it works. in fight all three fingers use numbers and depending on which number i use that moment, the rest is responsible for movement. sounds slow, but isnt, i guess. it might be fast - never tried, but i am fine with that.

Nuntjako

.

bardx86

You know I was saying the same thing about console players. I have no idea how anyone can aim using those dam joysticks. I feel like I'm drunk the whole time i ever tried on a console. Mouse is way better imho.

ArchMikem

bardx86 wrote: »

You know I was saying the same thing about console players. I have no idea how anyone can aim using those dam joysticks. I feel like I'm drunk the whole time i ever tried on a console. Mouse is way better imho.

Years of first person shooters + other games haved honed my thumbs into smooth criminals. Lol.

Guess the answer is simple. Just do it over and over and youll get better.

Ffastyl

What I have to say in regards to "controllers being limited" is it depends almost exclusively on how the game is set up. Either the Devs limit the functions available to fit onto a controller, make certain actions contextual and therefore use the same button, or implement extra layers of mappings triggered by holding down a button. I think ESO needs the last one sorely.

Most commonly I see contextual actions. Such as say Square/X for attacking, but which attack depends on your orientation, enemy orientation, environmental hazards and previous action (such chaining attacks).

What ESO needs most, the multi-layered mapping, I have rarely seen on console games because functions are often restricted to the number of available buttons. I am currently working out a button mapping inspired by Dragon's Dogma, a (previously) console exclusive that uses multi-layered mapping.

Pay attention to the commands displayed in the lower right corner.
Skip to 3:26 for a boss fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmUJ9oTjdYs

Every time he holds LB/L1 or RB/R1, the actions change. Using this same mechanic for ESO can allow for all abilities to be mapped to the face buttons alone, including jump and dodge. I am working with what we have available in PC Controller Support Beta to imitate this type of button mapping.

GivvumBoane

Ffastyl wrote: »

What I have to say in regards to "controllers being limited" is it depends almost exclusively on how the game is set up. Either the Devs limit the functions available to fit onto a controller, make certain actions contextual and therefore use the same button, or implement extra layers of mappings triggered by holding down a button. I think ESO needs the last one sorely.

Most commonly I see contextual actions. Such as say Square/X for attacking, but which attack depends on your orientation, enemy orientation, environmental hazards and previous action (such chaining attacks).

What ESO needs most, the multi-layered mapping, I have rarely seen on console games because functions are often restricted to the number of available buttons. I am currently working out a button mapping inspired by Dragon's Dogma, a (previously) console exclusive that uses multi-layered mapping.

Pay attention to the commands displayed in the lower right corner.
Skip to 3:26 for a boss fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmUJ9oTjdYs

Every time he holds LB/L1 or RB/R1, the actions change. Using this same mechanic for ESO can allow for all abilities to be mapped to the face buttons alone, including jump and dodge. I am working with what we have available in PC Controller Support Beta to imitate this type of button mapping.

Never winter has multilayered mapping on console. But I prefer Dragon's Dogma

Shunravi

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Macros are against the TOS. I wouldn't go advertising it.

Source? All I heard was it was a grey area and they have not explicitly told us it was forbidden.

LOL the single time any @ZOS has ever made a statement toward animation canceling and yet somehow has forever become the 'proof' that its totally part of the game and will/can never change
This is amusing. Still is. More than a year later.

Single time? @AtmaDarkwolf what? Why does everyone forget this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Ffastyl

In the current draft I have got all 5 abilities, synergy, jump, dodge and un/sheathe mapped to the face buttons. I took another page from Dragon's Dogma by using the R1/L1 mapping toggle to also weapon swap. Still working out where sprint could go and where I could place the functions it displaces... Worked out a way to incorporate sprint.

Here's the current draft.
Button: Function - Playstation (Xbox): Press (Hold)

L1 (LB): weapon set 1
R1 (RB): weapon set 2

L2 (LT): Block
R2 (RT): Attack

L3 (LS): Crouch (Mount)
R3 (RS): Sprint

Square (X): Ability 1
Triangle (Y): Ability 2
Circle (B): Synergy (un/sheathe)
Cross (A): Jump

L1/R1 + Square: Ability 3
L1/R1 + Triangle: Ability 4
L1/R1 + Circle: Ability 5
L1/R1 + Cross: Roll Dodge
L1/R1 + R3: Ultimate

D-Pad Up: Quickslot use (Quickslot radial)
D-Pad Left: Interact w/ Environment
D-Pad Right: Cycle Target (Emote radial)
D-Pad Down: First/Third Person (UI On/Off)

Start: Menu (Map)
Select: Interact w/ Player

Admittedly the last will need re-examining. Select, now Share, cannot be rebound for console players, so Player Interact requires a new home. Other minor functions such as Cycle Focused Quest and Command Pet are currently unbound in this draft too.

It may behoove Zenimax to overload Player Interact with Environment Interact, as the two functions have little need to occupy separate buttons.

Ffastyl

Moonscythe wrote: »

RobTheAxe wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

You know, as someone who has used a PC exclusively for gaming since 1984, I have a similar question about how anyone can use a controller. Don't you find it very limited? We are are used to what we know.

It is actually limited yeah. It feels like having the right and left bumpers AND triggers in addition to the traditional four colored buttons was a god send to developers. lol Although having the Swap Weapon Bar action linked to the right directional pad is my only complaint since I have to either use my left thumb to do it, thus sacrificing my movement for crucial seconds, or my right which takes my view off whatever I'm fighting if I'm still moving around. So then I have to swap weapons and then reposition again.

I REALLY want to try ESO on PC, but I have four characters on Xbox I don't want to give up on/neglect. I really wish ZOS allowed more cross platform transfers.

Fellow warrior of the Pact...

Try to use your left pointer finger...

If using the magical device known as Playstation controller you can access the 'D PAD' directly with the left pointer and maintain control over both 'thumbstick'

If using the magical device known as Xbox controller you take over the left stick with the left pointer while the left thumb press on D pad..

I hope this will help you try this ancient martial technique

Actually, I can't. My left pointer doesn't bend that way. I just use it for the bumper/trigger and fast swap the thumb between stick and pad. Am I doing something wrong that I don't need to use them at the same time? ...is that why i die...

Try a claw grip.

You can double claw on Playstation controllers because of the D-Pad placement.