PTS Patch Notes v2.5.3

zerosingularity

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Coat of the Red Mountain: This item set’s 3-piece bonus now grants Max Stamina instead of Spell Damage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So it is neat that there is recognition that some of these item sets seem out of whack. It is equally encouraging that steps are being taken to try and balance them out. It seems though that there is some great disconnect somewhere.

Let us compare the Coat of the Red Mountain set to a very similar Viper's Sting set:

Two set bonus':
CRM: 129 Weapon damage
VS: 688 Weapon Critical

Three set bonus':
CRM: 967 Max Stamina
VS: 967 Max Stamina

Four set bonus':
CRM: 688 Weapon Critical
VS: 688 Weapon Critical

At this point there are the same basic fundamental trade offs characteristic of all different sets, the value's are roughly equal within the ranges predicated by similar sets of equal level/CP scaling.

Five set bonus':

CRM: Weapon attacks have a 10% chance to cause 8000 flame damage

VS: Melee attacks deal 8311 poison damage. This effect can occur every 4 seconds.

The imbalance is huge and blatant, even given that someone could achieve 10 weapon attacks within 4 seconds to be able to almost guarantee a proc from CRM, the damage dealt is Flame which will not scale with any stamina CP. Even then though it is only a chance, where as the viper's sting set not only is poison and thus scales with stamina CP allotment but also is guaranteed to proc from melee attacks every 4 seconds.

What is left is that CRM is only an option for ranged builds who cannot benefit from VS because of the melee requirement. Even then CRM is an incredibly poor option as the proc chance is so low as to offer very little benefit over other 5 set options.

Do Poison Injection and Scorched Earth proc it? If so, then while it may not scale well with CP, I can see it being possible to get 2 procs per 4 seconds. This would be an option worth considering for some builds. I do agree that since it is flame damage it doesn't scale well with CP, but it does scale nicely with a Dunmer. Might need some slight tweaking, but it is not a bad set right now as is.

ManDraKE

FIX MALUBETH!

Shadesofkin

Pretty simple update, I sort of liked that achievement name and am a tad sad it's going the way of the buffalo.

Vythri

lordrichter wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

This is pretty clearly not a class balance update. If there's anything it'll probably be in Q4.

No, but it was supposed to be a racial balance update. Why do they even bother making feedback threads?

Mainly so that they can collect feedback from players. That does not imply that they are going to agree with, or follow, that feedback. They can make their own decisions, and sometimes players will disagree.

I know they make decisions that I disagree with, sometimes strongly. That is out of my hands. My decision is whether I want to stick around to see what other decisions I am not going to like. I certainly have no control over their decisions, no matter how aggressive I am.

That's great. I don't have to have people agree with me. But it would be nice to have people with that green name tag come into these discussion threads that THEY created, and you know... actually discuss and have a dialogue with the community. If you can explain to me your reasoning so that I can at least understand it, even if I don't agree with it, I'll be 100% more content.

That's been the issue since the beginning though. Stuff gets changed, people complain, nobody explains why, and on and on we go. I don't think it's asking too much for somebody to make it a point to visit the forums on a semi-regular basis to answer some questions in the threads THEY created. Often times people come up with some very valid concerns, and even discover things that are straight up broken, then post them in these threads. Then when it comes time for the PTS build to go live, nothing is ever fixed or addressed. The not being fixed part I can understand. Things take time, and can't be fixed right away. The not being addressed part is whats inexcusable.

rhapsodious

Vythri wrote: »

That's great. I don't have to have people agree with me. But it would be nice to have people with that green name tag come into these discussion threads that THEY created, and you know... actually discuss and have a dialogue with the community. If you can explain to me your reasoning so that I can at least understand it, even if I don't agree with it, I'll be 100% more content.

That's been the issue since the beginning though. Stuff gets changed, people complain, nobody explains why, and on and on we go. I don't think it's asking too much for somebody to make it a point to visit the forums on a semi-regular basis to answer some questions in the threads THEY created.

Agreed. More threads like @Wrobel 's writeups of block changes and sorc changes (although I am aware that those produced lethal levels of salt) would be a step in the right direction. But as is the nature of a large, semi-competitive community (PVP and high-end PVE), there will always be someone upset for whatever change they make. I really think that most people are in your (and my, actually) camp of "if you can tell me why you think X is a good change, even if I don't agree, I appreciate it".

I don't know if it's that the devs are scared of the forums (most of us don't bite, I swear!), they have to keep tight-lipped for executive reasons, or they just don't want to - but a lot of us would really appreciate you guys coming out of the woodwork. Maybe we can even get a few pages of meaningful discussion down before someone ruins it.

Anyone at ZOS who's reading this thread (Wrobel himself, maybe ?), could you maybe pass that idea onto your team/your boss/whoever, if it hasn't come up already?

Vythri

rhapsodious wrote: »

Agreed. More threads like @Wrobel 's writeups of block changes and sorc changes (although I am aware that those produced lethal levels of salt) would be a step in the right direction. But as is the nature of a large, semi-competitive community (PVP and high-end PVE), there will always be someone upset for whatever change they make. I really think that most people are in your (and my, actually) camp of "if you can tell me why you think X is a good change, even if I don't agree, I appreciate it".

I don't know if it's that the devs are scared of the forums (most of us don't bite, I swear!), they have to keep tight-lipped for executive reasons, or they just don't want to - but a lot of us would really appreciate you guys coming out of the woodwork. Maybe we can even get a few pages of meaningful discussion down before someone ruins it.

Anyone at ZOS who's reading this thread (Wrobel himself, maybe ?), could you maybe pass that idea onto your team/your boss/whoever, if it hasn't come up already?

It's like they have half of the battle down. They post multiple threads about the changes they make, and encourage people to post in those threads. But when people do post in those threads nobody ever responds. Only on a rare occasion is something responded to, or a change actually occurs. The majority of the time people's thoughts and ideas APPEAR to go unheard, and that makes everybody feel like... why even bother? Why even create the thread in the first place if you already had the design in your head, and you weren't willing to change it?

ZOS - "Hey guys, we're putting out a Public TEST Server build, and we're making change x, y, and z. Tell us what you think about change x, y, and z."
Players - "Well we think that change x and y will break the game, or don't go far enough in remedying the issue. Here's our idea for how to fix it."
ZOS - "....*crickets*...."
Players - "Is anybody listening to us???"
ZOS - "Here's your new patch for Live. After extensive testing we think you'll love it!"
Players - "...but you never addressed our concerns x and y."
ZOS - "Yeah, but z was great wasn't it!?!? Who's ready for the next big DLC that's 3-4 months away!?"

ManDraKE

rhapsodious wrote: »

Agreed. More threads like @Wrobel 's writeups of block changes and sorc changes (although I am aware that those produced lethal levels of salt) would be a step in the right direction.

Yeah the block tread of wrobel was really useful, now we have magika permablock builds on pvp /facepalm

actosh

No racial adjustments for imperials red diamond -,-

rhapsodious

ManDraKE wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Agreed. More threads like @Wrobel 's writeups of block changes and sorc changes (although I am aware that those produced lethal levels of salt) would be a step in the right direction.

Yeah the block tread of wrobel was really useful, now we have magika permablock builds on pvp /facepalm

I said step in the right direction, not a perfect solution. My point was he addressed concerns that the community was making and backed it up with reasoning, so even if the reasoning wasn't foolproof or you disagreed with it, you could at least see where he was coming from.

In any case, I think it'd go a long way in keeping the community feeling like their input matters. Because otherwise, as many others have said, people are going to think "why bother".

FLambda

rhapsodious wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, SHADOWS OF THE HIST DLC GAME PACK
Exploration & Itemization
Achievements

• Renamed the “More Like Mazzatomb” achievement to “Mazzatun Massacre”.

Please change the name back to “More Like Mazzatomb”

If we can have "Easy as Pie" I want a silly name for this achievement. I can totally imagine an Undaunted person saying that, so c'mon!

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Yeah, this definitely does seem like the sort of thing that someone who runs through ancient ruins for their morning stroll would say. Bring it back!

AshTal

Any news on Argonian racial being changed to get rid of the potion requirement?

Leogon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]The visual effects from the Block ability no longer display when you are in first-person mode.

What about third-person mode?
Also, please consider changing the visual effect for Bound Armaments 'cuz it's bad and distracting.

Maztiax

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Still no Orc buffs...

Your idea of buffing orcs would make them more overpowered than Khajiits on steroids, I'd rather they not change Orcs at all than implement your misguided ideas.

the_man_of_steal

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Hey guys thanks for the updates! Can you please ask the devs to give Khajits a tiny bit more stam instead of the health recovery passives. PLEASE

Thank you for your help!

Maztiax

I think all of you people disappointed with the lack of racial balancing lack realistic expectations and/or are missing the point entirely. Let me break it down for yall:

Zenimax is a business. Making money comes first, game balance second. That's the way it has always been.

After all of the "balancing" Zenimax did, Khajiits are still the most powerful PvE race by a large margin and Redguards are still the most powerful PvP race by a smaller margin. Races like Nords and Argonians are still largely undesirable.

Khajiits were buffed initially, meant to test the reactions of the public to see if they could get away with blatantly incentivizing the purchase of Race Change Tokens by making the most powerful race even more powerful. It wasn't received well, so they rolled back the change and decided to nerf Redguard to compensate. This gives the illusion that they are listening to feedback, when in reality all they're doing is widening the gap between the two most powerful DPS races so one (Khajiit) will still be largely more desirable in PvE, their main target audience in the game.

Instead of buffing the weaker races in PvP, Zenimax buffed the one race that didn't need buffing whatsoever by giving Bosmer more stamina, despite the fact that people are already taking advantage of Bosmer's racials to one-shot gank people in less than half a second. They did change Nords, Orcs, and Argonians but the changes they made did nothing to improve their desirability in comparison to other races. Khajiit/Imperial still make better dps/tanks than Nords, Orcs still get absolutely no damage benefit for most endgame DPS skills (dots), and Argonian tanks got nerfed and their healers still pale in comparison to Altmer and Breton sustainability. The changes they made to these races did absolutely nothing for them and were made more to give the illusion that ZoS was making efforts to improve them, i. e. Orc's healing received was obviously slapped on as an afterthought with no real reasoning behind it's inclusion.

In case I haven't made it abundantly clear already, some races are intentionally designed to be better than others. If every race was completely balanced then there would be less incentive to buy Race Change Tokens. Zenimax is a business, and this is admittedly a brilliant marketing strategy because they stayed true to their word (changing most of the weaker racials) while still maintaining an imbalance among the races. That way, people will be under the impression that there is an active effort to bring game balance and yet will still be incentivized to buy crowns for Race Change Tokens.

Cinbri

@ZOS_GinaBruno
it would be nice if templates had new skins in the Costumer Wardrobe bag, so we would know if it will fit our characters. It is very important with introduction of barber shop.

IcyDeadPeople

Maztiax wrote: »

Khajiits were buffed initially, meant to test the reactions of the public to see if they could get away with blatantly incentivizing the purchase of Race Change Tokens by making the most powerful race even more powerful. It wasn't received well, so they rolled back the change and decided to nerf Redguard to compensate. This gives the illusion that they are listening to feedback, when in reality all they're doing is widening the gap between the two most powerful DPS races so one (Khajiit) will still be largely more desirable in PvE, their main target audience in the game.

Haven't participated in PVE much yet, so I can't comment on that scenario. In my experience, however, it feels like Redguard and Altmer are still too strong. Far above all the other races in the game, when it comes to PVP.

So far, no idea about any nerfs to redguard yet (merely a correction of the intended cooldown from 3s to 5s), but I would not be surprised to see one next week.

The adjustments they are working on right now for racial passives are not about making people spend crowns on a switch from redguard. Instead, they are (hopefully) trying to bring most of these others up to the level of Redguard and Altmer so that when they finally make race change available, there is some degree of balance.

Right now there is a significant imbalance when these two races are so much stronger options, due to the 10% max stat and recovery passives. This is something that should ideally be addressed before launching the race change option.

Balancing clearly seems to take a long time and many iterations. At one time in this game, light armor Magicka builds were way overpowered compared to stamina, and some classes like Stamina Nightblade were extremely challenging to play on a competitive level in PVP compared to Magicka Dragonknight, for example.

It's never going to be perfect, and it will continue to swing this way or that based on feedback. However, over a period of a couple years the overall balance has improved tremendously since launch, without losing the unique identity of each class. We are even seeing *gasp* more stam sorcs in Cyrodiil, which were rare as unicorns before. This needs to happen to some degree for the races now, hopefully prior to the launch of the crown store tokens.

Otherwise, if reasonable balance among the different races is not achieved until after Update 11, whenever it finally happens there will be even more complaints than we see now, since at that point people will have already spent crowns to switch to Redguard or Altmer etc.

Forestd16b14_ESO

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Still no fix to Malubeth? Seriously?!

Malubeth was fixed in patch 2.4.8 about a month ago. It no longer double dips in the critical strike modifier.

Malubeth still needs fixed or as most would say nerfed to reduce the down right ridiculous amount of healing it allows a player to do when it procs.

stevepdodson_ESO888

zerosingularity wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Coat of the Red Mountain: This item set’s 3-piece bonus now grants Max Stamina instead of Spell Damage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So it is neat that there is recognition that some of these item sets seem out of whack. It is equally encouraging that steps are being taken to try and balance them out. It seems though that there is some great disconnect somewhere.

Let us compare the Coat of the Red Mountain set to a very similar Viper's Sting set:

Two set bonus':
CRM: 129 Weapon damage
VS: 688 Weapon Critical

Three set bonus':
CRM: 967 Max Stamina
VS: 967 Max Stamina

Four set bonus':
CRM: 688 Weapon Critical
VS: 688 Weapon Critical

At this point there are the same basic fundamental trade offs characteristic of all different sets, the value's are roughly equal within the ranges predicated by similar sets of equal level/CP scaling.

Five set bonus':

CRM: Weapon attacks have a 10% chance to cause 8000 flame damage

VS: Melee attacks deal 8311 poison damage. This effect can occur every 4 seconds.

The imbalance is huge and blatant, even given that someone could achieve 10 weapon attacks within 4 seconds to be able to almost guarantee a proc from CRM, the damage dealt is Flame which will not scale with any stamina CP. Even then though it is only a chance, where as the viper's sting set not only is poison and thus scales with stamina CP allotment but also is guaranteed to proc from melee attacks every 4 seconds.

What is left is that CRM is only an option for ranged builds who cannot benefit from VS because of the melee requirement. Even then CRM is an incredibly poor option as the proc chance is so low as to offer very little benefit over other 5 set options.

Do Poison Injection and Scorched Earth proc it? If so, then while it may not scale well with CP, I can see it being possible to get 2 procs per 4 seconds. This would be an option worth considering for some builds. I do agree that since it is flame damage it doesn't scale well with CP, but it does scale nicely with a Dunmer. Might need some slight tweaking, but it is not a bad set right now as is.

further to this...on a Stam DK Dunmer boosting flame damage, would Rapid Strikes count as 5 attacks in 0.6 second (making 10 in 1.2 seconds). By law of averages that should give a chance for this to proc one in every 1.2 seconds,even without the CP benefit this would compare favorably with Viper's Sting.

Toc de Malsvi

zerosingularity wrote: »

Do Poison Injection and Scorched Earth proc it? If so, then while it may not scale well with CP, I can see it being possible to get 2 procs per 4 seconds. This would be an option worth considering for some builds. I do agree that since it is flame damage it doesn't scale well with CP, but it does scale nicely with a Dunmer. Might need some slight tweaking, but it is not a bad set right now as is.

I'm not sure if they do, or whether each tick would be counted independently rather than simply the application of the DoT. If they did, I could see how that would up the value of this set. If they do then sure it's fine as a set, if not then it is seriously weak. It scales with Dunmer I wouldn't say nicely, Mighty dwarfs the Dunmer racial passive bonus', no question though that, that individual effect would be stronger for a Dunmer.

Maztiax

Haven't participated in PVE much yet, so I can't comment on that scenario. In my experience, however, it feels like Redguard and Altmer are still too strong. Far above all the other races in the game, when it comes to PVP.

Exactly. It's still going to be like that even after all of the changes they made.

So far, no idea about any nerfs to redguard yet (merely a correction of the intended cooldown from 3s to 5s), but I would not be surprised to see one next week.

So you're saying the 3 second cooldown was a bug this entire time? I've never heard that before, do you have evidence to back up this claim?

The adjustments they are working on right now for racial passives are not about making people spend crowns on a switch from redguard.

Not in PvP, no. As I said, Redguard is still going to be the #1 choice for stam users in PvP and ZOS knows this. They nerfed Redguards so Khajiit will look more appealing in PvE, but not enough so they're still the best in PvP.

Instead, they are (hopefully) trying to bring most of these others up to the level of Redguard and Altmer so that when they finally make race change available, there is some degree of balance.

Except they haven't successful done this. Nords getting 6% extra stamina does not put them on the level of a Redguard or Altmer. Their Rugged passive is still completely useless and their health regen was nerfed, making that stat even more undesirable than it already is. Argonians getting 5% healing and healing done means that current Argonian tanks will be nerfed and Argonian healers will still not perform as well as Atlmer/Bretons.

The only race that they legitimately buffed was Bosmer, but it was unnecessary because they are already the top gankers in PvP.

Arato

Looks like they're still double dipping customers who have RP appropriate names.

ADarklore

TheHsN wrote: »

OMG it is insulting to your players...

YOU NEVER LISTENED our feedbacks??? i really cant believe this... why you are making threads for FEEDBACKS from US....
@Wrobel
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Actually, they DO listen, but the problem is there is usually SO MUCH disagreement amongst the forum users that feedback many times becomes pointless. Also considering that feedback only considers those players using the forums (a tiny tiny fraction of player population) that ZOS has to take the feedback and extrapolate that across the entirety of the game population; they cannot make a decision solely based upon feedback from a tiny segment of players when it will impact millions of players across the game.

TheHsN

ADarklore wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

OMG it is insulting to your players...

YOU NEVER LISTENED our feedbacks??? i really cant believe this... why you are making threads for FEEDBACKS from US....
@Wrobel
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Actually, they DO listen, but the problem is there is usually SO MUCH disagreement amongst the forum users that feedback many times becomes pointless. Also considering that feedback only considers those players using the forums (a tiny tiny fraction of player population) that ZOS has to take the feedback and extrapolate that across the entirety of the game population; they cannot make a decision solely based upon feedback from a tiny segment of players when it will impact millions of players across the game.

Aaaaaa then why they even bother to open THREADS to take FEEDBACKS.....from to tiny little players amount in the FORUM :):)

baratron

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Renamed the “More Like Mazzatomb” achievement to “Mazzatun Massacre”.
• Renamed the “Waltz on Through” achievement to “Venomous Evasion”.

Maybe I'm strange, but I liked these Achievement names - I thought they were cute. The new ones are very bland.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Coat of the Red Mountain: This item set’s 3-piece bonus now grants Max Stamina instead of Spell Damage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So it is neat that there is recognition that some of these item sets seem out of whack. It is equally encouraging that steps are being taken to try and balance them out. It seems though that there is some great disconnect somewhere.

Let us compare the Coat of the Red Mountain set to a very similar Viper's Sting set:

Two set bonus':
CRM: 129 Weapon damage
VS: 688 Weapon Critical

Three set bonus':
CRM: 967 Max Stamina
VS: 967 Max Stamina

Four set bonus':
CRM: 688 Weapon Critical
VS: 688 Weapon Critical

At this point there are the same basic fundamental trade offs characteristic of all different sets, the value's are roughly equal within the ranges predicated by similar sets of equal level/CP scaling.

Five set bonus':

CRM: Weapon attacks have a 10% chance to cause 8000 flame damage

VS: Melee attacks deal 8311 poison damage. This effect can occur every 4 seconds.

The imbalance is huge and blatant, even given that someone could achieve 10 weapon attacks within 4 seconds to be able to almost guarantee a proc from CRM, the damage dealt is Flame which will not scale with any stamina CP. Even then though it is only a chance, where as the viper's sting set not only is poison and thus scales with stamina CP allotment but also is guaranteed to proc from melee attacks every 4 seconds.

What is left is that CRM is only an option for ranged builds who cannot benefit from VS because of the melee requirement. Even then CRM is an incredibly poor option as the proc chance is so low as to offer very little benefit over other 5 set options.

...I hoped they would rename it "Robes of Red Mountain" and change it to light armour with more magicka based bonuses.

PainfulFAFA

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Still no fix to Malubeth? Seriously?!

Malubeth was fixed in patch 2.4.8 about a month ago. It no longer double dips in the critical strike modifier.

Exploration & Itemization
Item Sets
Scourge Harvester: Fixed an issue where the heal from this item set’s proc was incorrectly double-dipping in the Critical Strike Chance modifier, and gaining double the benefit.

If you feel it's still too strong, that's another matter, but at this point it's not bugged and working as intended.

It's still bugged. People (including myself) have posted several videos showing it bugging out since the patch.

Can you post a link to your video?

Take your pick..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274143/video-malubeth-undaunted-set-healing-too-much#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279354/a-video-of-malubeth-in-action-small-scale-thoughts#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279683/why-i-use-malubeth#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/278760/the-state-of-malubeth#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269618/malubeth-set-in-pvp/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269394/malubeth-set

hrothbern

ADarklore wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

OMG it is insulting to your players...

YOU NEVER LISTENED our feedbacks??? i really cant believe this... why you are making threads for FEEDBACKS from US....
@Wrobel
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Actually, they DO listen, but the problem is there is usually SO MUCH disagreement amongst the forum users that feedback many times becomes pointless. Also considering that feedback only considers those players using the forums (a tiny tiny fraction of player population) that ZOS has to take the feedback and extrapolate that across the entirety of the game population; they cannot make a decision solely based upon feedback from a tiny segment of players when it will impact millions of players across the game.

agree
all of it

on: "....but the problem is there is usually SO MUCH disagreement amongst the forum users..."

Besides the usual confusion on this Forum whether a post, an opinion is referring to Raids, solo questing difficult content, PVP in groups sieging, PVP small groups farming bigger groups, small scale PVP , duelling, ganking, etc...
I would like to add:

Another fundamental problem of this Forum are the blind spots of many forum posters that know only their own build or the meta builds and the synergies for those builds and base their general opinion on a certain property of a Race or a Class or an Ability on such a limited insight in the game.
There are many more niche builds for whome a seemingly "meh" ability or passive is extremely important for and perhaps even the critical corner stone of the logic of a build !!!
Changing that because of some superficial meta view of this Forum could very well destroy such niche builds ....
or..... make them totally OP.

Many of the posts.... IF ZOS would implement them..... would only lead to a mono culture of a limited variety of builds
Instead of the higher diversity of builds and playing styles now viable.

Taking deep dives in such niche builds, learning to play them, doing your homework by testing all kinds of bloody details to get your math and your synergies optimised....
Testing out if your theoretical thoughts are doable to play them with rotations, with your resource sustain, all things you overlooked....
Looking forward to the new synergies of new sets....
...... is for many players already a lot of fun and there are not many, but still a lot of posts and vids showing how many interesting and viable builds are possible.


Yet another fundamental problem of this Forum is that many post giving information about the game mechanics are more or less limited to the obvious knowledge.
Obvious knowledge being the tooltip self, clarifications of the tooltips and some basic formulars.
The fine touch, the "not so obvious" knowledge of the game mechanics is very, very rarely made public by players that know.
And yes.... not everybody likes to post.... how sure are you that you can describe it properly.... there is competition for the Leaderboards..... there is killing and be killed in PVP....
=> cutting edge info is not readily shared on this Forum
tho I would welcome some more openess

All in all.... this Forum has many posts based on a limited overview of kinds of builds and too often a limited knowledge of the fine details of soooo many "not so obvious" synergies.
This makes satisfying the majority vote on game mechanic issues in my opinion a huge risk for a healthy game.

So... After reading the facts, arguments and opinions, ZOS needs to take her own responsibility here and they do

and demanding that ZOS gives a full explanation of actions, would force ZOS to make public all kinds of niche builds that are allready borderline OP and to make public all kinds of "not so obvious" knowledge, for which existing players knowing that special stuff, did a lot of homework.
ZOS sharing a general consideration is what I expect to happen with bigger changes.
Sometimes a peep in deeper game mechanics that we players can hardly test is ofc nice, like the explanation of Blocking costs of Wrobel in his Blocking thread: All hits within a 0.5 second time window count ONLY as 1 hit regarding the Stamina costs of Blocking. Such peeps are welcome.



There is a old proverb saying:
When you point 1 finger to someone else accusing him, there are 3 fingers pointing at yourself

So.... before accusing ZOS of "not listening and producing nonsense..."

Git Gud yourself !

Jaronking

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we finally remove the snare off of Gap closers.

Orchish

"Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where the invisibility from this ability and its morphs was being broken by certain abilities including Volatile Armor"

This was an issue? I thought this was a legit counter it's been this way for months. It has a tiny radius and a good little counter for NB that just spam cloak right next to you.