The Unofficial Cloak Thread

Cryptical

Ive heard from a guilder that his poison is breaking his stealth.

To be explicit...
Archer nightblade nails a victim with a poison. Archer crouches into stealth. Victim is dying from poison. As the poison drags the victim into death, the archer's stealth gets broken each time the poison does more damage.

No, I don't know if it was a bow ability, a glyph on the bow, or something else. We were above ground in imperial city and saw his stealth breaking again and again, potentially revealing us to the enemies on the flag we were scouting, and had not the time for a detailed q&a. He, the archer nightblade, seemed to think it was normal. I do not.

Also, he's not on the forums nor does he do bug reports.

DDuke

Cryptical wrote: »

Ive heard from a guilder that his poison is breaking his stealth.

To be explicit...
Archer nightblade nails a victim with a poison. Archer crouches into stealth. Victim is dying from poison. As the poison drags the victim into death, the archer's stealth gets broken each time the poison does more damage.

No, I don't know if it was a bow ability, a glyph on the bow, or something else. We were above ground in imperial city and saw his stealth breaking again and again, potentially revealing us to the enemies on the flag we were scouting, and had not the time for a detailed q&a. He, the archer nightblade, seemed to think it was normal. I do not.

Also, he's not on the forums nor does he do bug reports.

Yes, DoTs usually (not always) make you unable to resneak right afterwards. This however is not visible to anyone but the player trying to sneak (as he's the only one who can see the "hidden/visible" eye). What happens after a regular DoT is that you see the friendly player in crouch and you assume he's sneaking, while that player's "hidden/visible" eye is wide open on his screen saying he's not stealthed.

What you're likely referring to however is the DoT from Vicecanon set. This prevents the user from even crouching at all & has a visual effect whenever it procs on enemy (and heals the user). When someone with this DoT on target tries to crouch, he'll just start going to sneak & then immediately stand up every time it procs. It is also impossible to cloak while this DoT is active on target, as I've documented.

GreenSoup2HoT

Nothing in pts 2.5.2 to fix cloak -_-

DDuke

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279694/pts-patch-notes-v2-5-3

Nightblade
Shadow
Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where the invisibility from this ability and its morphs was being broken by certain abilities including Volatile Armor, Scourge Harvester, and Vicecanon of Venom.
Note: Other cases of Shadow Cloak’s invisibility being broken are still being investigated.

Good news! I logged on PTS & tested these just to make sure - they are fixed


Updated original post to reflect this.

GreenSoup2HoT

DDuke wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279694/pts-patch-notes-v2-5-3

Nightblade
Shadow
Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where the invisibility from this ability and its morphs was being broken by certain abilities including Volatile Armor, Scourge Harvester, and Vicecanon of Venom.
Note: Other cases of Shadow Cloak’s invisibility being broken are still being investigated.

Good news! I logged on PTS & tested these just to make sure - they are fixed


Updated original post to reflect this.

Awesome news! I really hope everything you have mentioned gets fixed up.

ManDraKE

Well, at least we are getting 1 decent bugfix on 2.5...

Thanks @DDuke, i'm pretty sure that without the work you put on this topic, this would have never been fixed.

Cryptical

DDuke wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Ive heard from a guilder that his poison is breaking his stealth.

To be explicit...
Archer nightblade nails a victim with a poison. Archer crouches into stealth. Victim is dying from poison. As the poison drags the victim into death, the archer's stealth gets broken each time the poison does more damage.

No, I don't know if it was a bow ability, a glyph on the bow, or something else. We were above ground in imperial city and saw his stealth breaking again and again, potentially revealing us to the enemies on the flag we were scouting, and had not the time for a detailed q&a. He, the archer nightblade, seemed to think it was normal. I do not.

Also, he's not on the forums nor does he do bug reports.

Yes, DoTs usually (not always) make you unable to resneak right afterwards. This however is not visible to anyone but the player trying to sneak (as he's the only one who can see the "hidden/visible" eye). What happens after a regular DoT is that you see the friendly player in crouch and you assume he's sneaking, while that player's "hidden/visible" eye is wide open on his screen saying he's not stealthed.

What you're likely referring to however is the DoT from Vicecanon set. This prevents the user from even crouching at all & has a visual effect whenever it procs on enemy (and heals the user). When someone with this DoT on target tries to crouch, he'll just start going to sneak & then immediately stand up every time it procs. It is also impossible to cloak while this DoT is active on target, as I've documented.

I'm sorry, I didn't see that there was a reply before today.

I presume everyone is aware of how to tell when a person crouching is "hidden in stealth" and when they are not - specifically, when a character seems to be in a shadow. Sometimes this effect fails to happen, but in general it works.

People can see this happening on their own character. If you can't, try disabling mods because I'm on console.

When I said the Archer crouched into stealth, I mean I saw the character crouch down smaller and then a half moment later the shadow darkens the Archer accompanied by the sound effect, and then a half moment later the character gets lighter with the stealth-broken sound effect, and then another half moment the Archer went into stealth again, and lather rinse repeat.

Let. Me. Be. Clear.

The archer was not standing up and crouching down to break his own stealth. He. Was. Motionless. *Motionless.*

And I was watching his character darken in shadow to signal him "Hidden" and then the shadow go away to signal him "Visible". Accompanied by the Woosh sound effect, each time. *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible" *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible" *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible" *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible"

And it wasn't the vicecannon set. I think the guy uses hundings and nmg, agility and engine guardian.

GreenSoup2HoT

@DDuke

Can you do me a favor and list each PTS/Patch note that states each fix for cloak? I'd like to know which patch has each fix so i can figure out a time-line when Console with receive these fixes. I could go search it for myself but i think the thread would also benefit having this knowledge on the first post.

Unfortunately, console players have to deal with these issues a lot longer then pc user's.

Neowit

With this update, what happens when a NB cloaks on someone winding-up an uppercut? Does the uppercut cancel, or does it fire an attack in front of you which can still connect with a cloaked character if they are sitting in the way? What was the issue with cloaking an uppercut before? Could you roll dodge into a cloak and still be hit by Uppercut?

GreenSoup2HoT

Neowit wrote: »

With this update, what happens when a NB cloaks on someone winding-up an uppercut? Does the uppercut cancel, or does it fire an attack in front of you which can still connect with a cloaked character if they are sitting in the way?

In this pts patch if someone uses Uppercut on someone who cloak's it will cancel the uppercut. A nightblade could stand right in front of you and you could be at the very end of your uppercut swing but if he cloaks before the channel finishes it will not hit the nightblade (but your immersions?!.. doesn't matter. If your mid swing it won't matter, if cloak happens first it stops the channel).

That is how it's always worked. This is not a new feature. This is a bug fix.

What was the issue with cloaking an uppercut before?

The issue was you still get hit by the uppercut even if you cloak. This issue hasn't been going on for that long, all though cloak in general has become bug infested after the DoT purge was removed from it. Thats what this thread is trying to remedy.

Could you roll dodge into a cloak and still be hit by Uppercut?

Yes, if the player casted Uppercut while you were roll dodging. It really depends when the channel of uppercut ends. It's possible yes if timed right. Technically a well timed uppercut could hit someone at the end of a roll dodge... but if a nightblade cloaks before the channal ends it will not connect.

Ragnaroek93

Another skill to test would be Flames of Oblivion, I haven't checked it out, but from watching I think it breaks cloak too.

Vythri

Cryptical wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't see that there was a reply before today.

I presume everyone is aware of how to tell when a person crouching is "hidden in stealth" and when they are not - specifically, when a character seems to be in a shadow. Sometimes this effect fails to happen, but in general it works.

People can see this happening on their own character. If you can't, try disabling mods because I'm on console.

When I said the Archer crouched into stealth, I mean I saw the character crouch down smaller and then a half moment later the shadow darkens the Archer accompanied by the sound effect, and then a half moment later the character gets lighter with the stealth-broken sound effect, and then another half moment the Archer went into stealth again, and lather rinse repeat.

Let. Me. Be. Clear.

The archer was not standing up and crouching down to break his own stealth. He. Was. Motionless. *Motionless.*

And I was watching his character darken in shadow to signal him "Hidden" and then the shadow go away to signal him "Visible". Accompanied by the Woosh sound effect, each time. *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible" *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible" *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible" *Woosh* "Hidden" *Woosh* "Visible"

And it wasn't the vicecannon set. I think the guy uses hundings and nmg, agility and engine guardian.

This literally happens to me every time I try to PvP. It's incredibly frustrating. Also I'll just get randomly broken out of crouch stealth for zero reason with nobody around me. I know that can happen if somebody else is crouch stealthed and they come too close to me, but I'm talking about in situations where there is zero chance anybody else is near me.

Also... the other day I was sneaking up on somebody running siege. They never saw me coming because I was sneaking the entire way from another keep. They proceeded to stop what they were doing, threw down caltrops on top of my head and Dizzying Swing spammed me while I was trying to cast cloak to get back in stealth (I know this is fixed in the PTS now). Now were they cheating? Was I really not in crouch stealth the entire time? I have no idea because the mechanics seem broken.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Vythri

Also... the other day I was sneaking up on somebody running siege. They never saw me coming because I was sneaking the entire way from another keep. They proceeded to stop what they were doing, threw down caltrops on top of my head and Dizzying Swing spammed me while I was trying to cast cloak to get back in stealth (I know this is fixed in the PTS now). Now were they cheating? Was I really not in crouch stealth the entire time? I have no idea because the mechanics seem broken.

Wrong place, wrong time scenario you got yourself into. Putting Caltrop's down while siegeing is a great tactic to prevent being ganked. It just so happens you were trying to gank him at that very second he placed the caltrops down... which i guess is ironic. I don't think there is anything fishy here.

Also you can't cloak Dizzying Swing since it's broken right now. You should of been able to prevent him from hitting you if you were cloaking (assuming you got off the caltrops when you were trying to escape).

Vythri

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Vythri

Also... the other day I was sneaking up on somebody running siege. They never saw me coming because I was sneaking the entire way from another keep. They proceeded to stop what they were doing, threw down caltrops on top of my head and Dizzying Swing spammed me while I was trying to cast cloak to get back in stealth (I know this is fixed in the PTS now). Now were they cheating? Was I really not in crouch stealth the entire time? I have no idea because the mechanics seem broken.

Wrong place, wrong time scenario you got yourself into. Putting Caltrop's down while siegeing is a great tactic to prevent being ganked. It just so happens you were trying to gank him at that very second he placed the caltrops down... which i guess is ironic. I don't think there is anything fishy here.

Also you can't cloak Dizzying Swing since it's broken right now. You should of been able to prevent him from hitting you if you were cloaking (assuming you got off the caltrops when you were trying to escape).

The guy was rotating on 2 siege, and hadn't once put down caltrops until I got to about 28m or so close to him. He also didn't put it down near himself. He put it down right on top of my head and I wasn't close to him yet.

As for the Dizzying Swing part, I understand it's broken now. I mentioned that in my post.

My point though is that it feels like stealth doesn't always work, and too often bugs out at the worst times. At least in my experience.

Ragnaroek93

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Another skill to test would be Flames of Oblivion, I haven't checked it out, but from watching I think it breaks cloak too.

Can confirm now that it breaks Coak, but I don't have a video up.

Rohamad_Ali

This is what I feel like when cloak doesn't work .

DDuke

Well, some things got fixed in the patch but...

Casting Vigor while cloaked seems to break it now - is this intended @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ?

It is currently the only defensive skill breaking Cloak when cast - casting Rally, Shuffle, Siphoning Attacks, Relentless Focus (or even Bombard) etc while cloaked are still not breaking it based on my testing.

ScruffyWhiskers

It's an AOE heal right? I think that's why it breaks cloak and stealth.

Rohamad_Ali

Cloak is still 50/50 with PvP .

thankyourat

So ambush is still breaking cloak? That's the main offender for me. And the most annoying

Thornen

Cloak works just as randomly as before, dizzy swing ambush light attack guard dots dk spiked armour dot crit rush toppling charge dark flare all still land regardless.

Vythri

I don't know... I've been able to get away from all that crap a whole lot easier after this patch than before.

KenaPKK

Overload light attacks still pull you out of cloak most times you go to dodge them.

Sometimes they remove cloak and damage you, sometimes they remove cloak and don't damage you, sometimes they don't remove cloak and still damage you, and sometimes they miss entirely like they're supposed to. It's weird.

altemriel

ZOS is this still bugged???????!!!!!!!!!!!


@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

ManDraKE

altemriel wrote: »

ZOS is this still bugged???????!!!!!!!!!!!


@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

yes, entropy is still breaking cloak

Xvorg

ManDraKE wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

ZOS is this still bugged???????!!!!!!!!!!!


@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

yes, entropy is still breaking cloak

As I said in another post, we need to understand how does the entropy healing works.

1- Is the caster healing himself or
2- is the objective (enemy) healing the caster?

If the later, then cloak could be broken because healing others takes you out of cloak.

If that's the case, there should be some testing with:

1- Entropy
2- Malucancer
3- Strife and its morphs
4- Blood craze
5- Vice cannon
6- Burning embers (after the effect ends)
7- Draining shot
8- claws of life (WW)


And other skills/ sets that have a HoT associated to dmg done.

ManDraKE

Xvorg wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

ZOS is this still bugged???????!!!!!!!!!!!


@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

yes, entropy is still breaking cloak

As I said in another post, we need to understand how does the entropy healing works.

1- Is the caster healing himself or
2- is the objective (enemy) healing the caster?

I believe none of both. The caster is getting healed when the objective gets damage by the DoT, so seems to work similar to malubeth, and malubeth no longer breaks cloak.

asneakybanana

Dark flare, all gap closers, light attacks, the guard mages that give you the dot from their lightning attack, seems like channeled beam type attacks such as radiant and lightning heavy attacks. All I can think of right now but im sure there's more

Xvorg

ManDraKE wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

ZOS is this still bugged???????!!!!!!!!!!!


@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

yes, entropy is still breaking cloak

As I said in another post, we need to understand how does the entropy healing works.

1- Is the caster healing himself or
2- is the objective (enemy) healing the caster?

I believe none of both. The caster is getting healed when the objective gets damage by the DoT, so seems to work similar to malubeth, and malubeth no longer breaks cloak.

Some months ago I tried using equilibrium, and I noticed that I was able to heal myself immediately after using it despite the tooltip.

nevertheless, ZOS could be clearer regarding how those heals work.

ManDraKE

asneakybanana wrote: »

Dark flare, all gap closers, light attacks, the guard mages that give you the dot from their lightning attack, seems like channeled beam type attacks such as radiant and lightning heavy attacks. All I can think of right now but im sure there's more

Not all gap closers, the only ones i noticed are ambush and toppling charge.
Light attacks are weird, i think only meele LA are breaking cloak, but not sure, need to test.
The *** guards are pain in the ass, is imposible to cloak while the guards are on you
About channeled attacks haven't noticed anything, i usually cloak the jesus beam.