The Unofficial Cloak Thread

DDuke

• Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where the invisibility granted by this ability and its morphs was being broken by certain cast time and charge abilities, such as Uppercut and Critical Charge.

I will be reporting here the situation with Nightblade Cloak ability.

For previous state of the skill, see the following thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/273634/bugs-shadowy-disguise


Things to test (confirmed to be breaking Cloak on Live servers):
Entropy (and morphs)
Volatile Armor DoT Fixed!
Vicecanon DoT Fixed!
Malubeth Beam Fixed!
Uppercut (and morphs) Fixed!
Critical Charge (and morphs) Fixed!
Toppling Charge
Shield Charge (and morphs) Fixed!
Ambush


If you find anything fixed (or new bugs) please post them on this thread - I appreciate all the help I can get.


Edit: 29/06/2016

First round of testing. Entropy, Volatile Armor DoT, Vicecanon DoT, Malubeth Beam & Ambush are still breaking cloak:

https://youtu.be/KGbAdgsIPOc

Uppercut, Critical Charge & Shield Charge have been fixed.

Synapsis123

On live weapon procs that damage break the cloak. Also when sorc curse is cast it breaks cloak.

BlackMadara

I have a question. What if cloak was unbreakable but you took reduced damage while in it. So if something hit you while cloaking, it'd do half damage, including dots. Then you wouldn't even have to worry about coding abilities that break cloak or even having a command for cloak breaking at all. You would guarantee become invisible and too keep that untargetablility at the expense of taking, lets say, 50% damage from dots and aoes? Seems like something that can be easier to code for zos and makes sense with the caster fading of existence.

GreenSoup2HoT

@BlackMadara The issue with that is magicka nightblades can spam cloak for minutes. Cloak is fine the way it is, just it needs to work the way its intended and not break from ability's that are not AoE.

ManDraKE

Good post! lets hope everything gets fixed.

Volatile armor shouldn't be in that list, since it does AoE damage.

BlackMadara wrote: »

I have a question. What if cloak was unbreakable but you took reduced damage while in it. So if something hit you while cloaking, it'd do half damage, including dots.

Dots are suppressed by Cloak. Being hit while cloaked should not be possible with single target abilities since you are untargetable while cloaked, only AoE can hit you (and pull you out) of cloak.

Imo the discusion should be about bugs, and no about how people would like to cloak to function (that discussion would be a mess because everyone that don't play nighblade want cloak to be useless and nighblades to be erased of tamriel)

GreenSoup2HoT

@ManDraKE The DoT after volatile armour is breaking cloak. We know volatile armour breaks cloak on activation but the DoT should not.

@DDuke I guess you should edit the first post so Volatile mentions the DoT is bugged.

Xael

@DDuke add me on PTS since I am on my NA account there.
I will definitely test these with you. This along with Purge not removing Mark is my biggest issue on live. Currently on live Cloak is a joke for stamblades.
I will be around in like 11 hours or so.

DDuke

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ManDraKE The DoT after volatile armour is breaking cloak. We know volatile armour breaks cloak on activation but the DoT should not.

@DDuke I guess you should edit the first post so Volatile mentions the DoT is bugged.

Ah yes, that's correct - should've phrased it better. Correcting it on the post.

Xael wrote: »

@DDuke add me on PTS since I am on my NA account there.
I will definitely test these with you. This along with Purge not removing Mark is my biggest issue on live. Currently on live Cloak is a joke for stamblades.
I will be around in like 11 hours or so.

Awesome, adding you on PTS.

DDuke

Concluded first round of testing on the PTS, some things have been fixed and no longer break cloak - others are still bugged.

Fixed:

• Critical Rush
• Shielded Assault
• Wrecking Blow

Still Bugged & Breaking Cloak:

• Malubeth Beam
• Entropy
• Vicecanon DoT
• Volatile Armor DoT
• Ambush

Recorded the tests:

https://youtu.be/KGbAdgsIPOc


Big thanks to @Xael for helping me test things.

Xael

DDuke wrote: »

Concluded first round of testing on the PTS, some things have been fixed and no longer break cloak - others are still bugged.

Fixed:

• Critical Rush
• Shielded Assault
• Wrecking Blow

Still Bugged & Breaking Cloak:

• Malubeth Beam
• Entropy
• Vicecanon DoT
• Volatile Armor DoT
• Ambush

Recorded the tests:

https://youtu.be/KGbAdgsIPOc


Big thanks to @Xael for helping me test things.

Fix cloak please

SanTii.92

Please Zos, specially Ambush needs to get fixed.

Jaronking

@DDuke I hope it's not like last PTS where it was fixed on PTs but when it went live it was even worst then before.

GreenSoup2HoT

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please show this to the combat team! All these bugs are really annoying to deal with.

Tonnopesce

Still i believe that with the volatile armor is working as intended.
Aoe skill with an AoE DoT.

GreenSoup2HoT

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Still i believe that with the volatile armor is working as intended.
Aoe skill with an AoE DoT.

Thats not how Volatile Armour works. After being hit by Volatile Armour, the dragon knight is not pulsating for aoe dot damage similar to Stamina Sorc's Hurricane. Its a one time chance to reveal and its always worked that way.

The DoT from Volatile Armour is like any other DoT and should not pop you out of shadow cloak.

Xael

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Still i believe that with the volatile armor is working as intended.
Aoe skill with an AoE DoT.

Thats not how Volatile Armour works. After being hit by Volatile Armour, the dragon knight is not pulsating for aoe dot damage similar to Stamina Sorc's Hurricane. Its a one time chance to reveal and its always worked that way.

The DoT from Volatile Armour is like any other DoT and should not pop you out of shadow cloak.

Agreed, nor does it fit with the change to Dark Cloak. Either give us the older version of Dark Cloak or fix all of these.

ManDraKE

Great job with that testing, i hope we can bring some dev attetion.

silky_soft

Projectiles still take you out

GreenSoup2HoT

silky_soft wrote: »

Projectiles still take you out

@DDuke Looks like ranged projectiles may need testing aswell.

Xael

silky_soft wrote: »

Projectiles still take you out

Which ones?
I already tested several and they were not breaking cloak.

silky_soft

You tested them on pts? Because they do on live. Snipe, injection.

PlagueMonk

I have literally given up caring about cloak. It has never worked correctly despite numerous attempts being made and there are just too many easy ways to counter it (and they continue to add more with every single patch)

I pretty much only use it solo now to bypass things when I want to get somewhere quickly (oh and for heists)

It should be the NBs ultimate "go to" ability but it has been rendered a joke by Zenimax because of all the QQers.

silky_soft

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I have literally given up caring about cloak. It has never worked correctly despite numerous attempts being made and there are just too many easy ways to counter it (and they continue to add more with every single patch)

I pretty much only use it solo now to bypass things when I want to get somewhere quickly (oh and for heists)

It should be the NBs ultimate "go to" ability but it has been rendered a joke by Zenimax because of all the QQers.

I just use it for the 100% crit

DDuke

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Any updates you can give us on the status of cloak?

Vythri

Would be nice if they could fix the stupid bug where on some occasions you can sneak right after attacking somebody, but other occasions where you can't sneak for 5 hours after attacking somebody. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and why you can go back into sneak.

GreenSoup2HoT

Vythri wrote: »

Would be nice if they could fix the stupid bug where on some occasions you can sneak right after attacking somebody, but other occasions where you can't sneak for 5 hours after attacking somebody. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and why you can go back into sneak.

I'd like to know what dictates when someone is out of combat after recently attacking someone then running away without killing them.

Just like you said, if you attack someone then disengage, you either can re-enter "hidden" right away or you cannot return to "hidden" for 5 minutes. What gives?

nilldax

To list add:
First attack of Shadow Image;
Burning Talons (rarely Chocking) DoT tick;
Morkuldin proc;
Light/heavy attacks on moderate lags (200ms);

*Couple single target skills with AoE part(even if first, single attack misses): Reverse Slice, Lotus Fan*

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Would be nice if they could fix the stupid bug where on some occasions you can sneak right after attacking somebody, but other occasions where you can't sneak for 5 hours after attacking somebody. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and why you can go back into sneak.

I'd like to know what dictates when someone is out of combat after recently attacking someone then running away without killing them.

Just like you said, if you attack someone then disengage, you either can re-enter "hidden" right away or you cannot return to "hidden" for 5 minutes. What gives?

It's all to do with if you hit anyone, got hit or was seen. If I was to say open up at range and I was off screen of my target even if I don't kill him I can re-enter stealth as I was never seen. Unless an enemy sees me then I'm in combat and locked out of stealth.

Same rules for killing but just a little different. If I attack someone and killed them with all single target attacks the chances of me gaining stealth back is very high but I have splash damage/AoE I have to kill everyone hit. This one is tricky I'm not sure what the limit is but I always kill my target and get back to stealth even if I get attacked as long as I don't fight back. After an unknown amount of damage you're in combat without stealth regardless of you fight back or not.

Been an Archer Nightblade since beta. This has been my experience with it all. The best was I have found to always get stealth is positioning. Be out of sight of the guys you can't see. What I mean by that is you never know who's in stealth so use rocks and trees to cut Line of Sight. If you land a stealth hit but there's an enemy that can see you, you lose the stealth bonus. Always fire with a rock or tree at your back.

Always use focused damage AoEs is a Zerg move when you don't care about stealth if you hit them you have to kill them to get stealth if they can see you on their screen. Focused damage is strongest against single targets and that what your doing.

When all else fails run if you have a bow roll then run this lets you roll incoming attacks and grants a speed buff. Use invisibility potions or speed potions. I use invisibility potions when I'm low or out of magic they give a burst heal and a heal over time plus you disappear for 15 seconds. Speed potions that give stamina is great just remember to run before you use it getting 6k stamina back when at full stamina is a waste and you can't recover when you sprint so use stamina before the potion. Hope this helps in some ways.

DDuke

nilldax wrote: »

To list add:
First attack of Shadow Image;
Burning Talons (rarely Chocking) DoT tick;
Morkuldin proc;
Light/heavy attacks on moderate lags (200ms);

*Couple single target skills with AoE part(even if first, single attack misses): Reverse Slice, Lotus Fan*

I have tested all of those on Live apart from Lotus Fan/Reverse Slice and they do not break cloak. I'll test them on PTS once I find time to do so.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Would be nice if they could fix the stupid bug where on some occasions you can sneak right after attacking somebody, but other occasions where you can't sneak for 5 hours after attacking somebody. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and why you can go back into sneak.

I'd like to know what dictates when someone is out of combat after recently attacking someone then running away without killing them.

Just like you said, if you attack someone then disengage, you either can re-enter "hidden" right away or you cannot return to "hidden" for 5 minutes. What gives?

I've actually been meaning to make a video explaining the mechanics (and other "tricks") with stealth and cloak, but with cloak being as buggy as it is I don't feel like giving people the false impression that any of them are practical currently.

Vythri

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Would be nice if they could fix the stupid bug where on some occasions you can sneak right after attacking somebody, but other occasions where you can't sneak for 5 hours after attacking somebody. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and why you can go back into sneak.

I'd like to know what dictates when someone is out of combat after recently attacking someone then running away without killing them.

Just like you said, if you attack someone then disengage, you either can re-enter "hidden" right away or you cannot return to "hidden" for 5 minutes. What gives?

It's all to do with if you hit anyone, got hit or was seen. If I was to say open up at range and I was off screen of my target even if I don't kill him I can re-enter stealth as I was never seen. Unless an enemy sees me then I'm in combat and locked out of stealth.

Same rules for killing but just a little different. If I attack someone and killed them with all single target attacks the chances of me gaining stealth back is very high but I have splash damage/AoE I have to kill everyone hit. This one is tricky I'm not sure what the limit is but I always kill my target and get back to stealth even if I get attacked as long as I don't fight back. After an unknown amount of damage you're in combat without stealth regardless of you fight back or not.

Been an Archer Nightblade since beta. This has been my experience with it all. The best was I have found to always get stealth is positioning. Be out of sight of the guys you can't see. What I mean by that is you never know who's in stealth so use rocks and trees to cut Line of Sight. If you land a stealth hit but there's an enemy that can see you, you lose the stealth bonus. Always fire with a rock or tree at your back.

Always use focused damage AoEs is a Zerg move when you don't care about stealth if you hit them you have to kill them to get stealth if they can see you on their screen. Focused damage is strongest against single targets and that what your doing.

When all else fails run if you have a bow roll then run this lets you roll incoming attacks and grants a speed buff. Use invisibility potions or speed potions. I use invisibility potions when I'm low or out of magic they give a burst heal and a heal over time plus you disappear for 15 seconds. Speed potions that give stamina is great just remember to run before you use it getting 6k stamina back when at full stamina is a waste and you can't recover when you sprint so use stamina before the potion. Hope this helps in some ways.

Thanks for that info, that's really helpful.

GreenSoup2HoT

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Would be nice if they could fix the stupid bug where on some occasions you can sneak right after attacking somebody, but other occasions where you can't sneak for 5 hours after attacking somebody. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and why you can go back into sneak.

I'd like to know what dictates when someone is out of combat after recently attacking someone then running away without killing them.

Just like you said, if you attack someone then disengage, you either can re-enter "hidden" right away or you cannot return to "hidden" for 5 minutes. What gives?

It's all to do with if you hit anyone, got hit or was seen. If I was to say open up at range and I was off screen of my target even if I don't kill him I can re-enter stealth as I was never seen. Unless an enemy sees me then I'm in combat and locked out of stealth.

[I took out a lot of what you said, simply because i think a lot of what you said is common knowledge about stealth mechanics. No offence but i wanna narrow down my point and talk about a specific stealth mechanic into further depth.]

Info inside, just trying to prevent wall of text.

You say it has a lot to do with "if you got hit". I personally don't think this matters. I've had rapid maneuvers on, ran into a zerg of players, had the crap beat out of me but somehow managed to slip away with cloak. After this i can re-enter HIDDEN right away as soon as im clear of any players detection (as long as i did not attack anyone).

Hitting someone defiantly matters, if you hit someone your "in-combat" until they die. If you use AoE they all have to die before you can re-HIDDEN (This is where the dreaded "in-combat bug" sometimes comes into play).

Being "Seen". Now i understand how this would effect someone who is not a nightblade. If your sneaking around then become "Detected", you have to leave the enemy players Detection Radius to re-HIDDEN. However as a nightblade we can cloak and re-position very easily out of someones detection radius making this issue not that big of a deal.


Alright, so something you said caught me off guard. You said you could open up on someone from range and if they did not see you.. you could enter "hidden" without being classified as "in-combat". So your saying you could Snipe someone from Max distance without killing them and leave without a care in the world? From my experiences this does not work and you will be "in-combat" until that player dies, preventing you from going back into HIDDEN.

Is this where the "in-combat bug" comes into place. Should you be able to re-enter stealth after hitting an enemy player if you break enough distance and slip away from all player detection radius's?

@DDuke

I think i have a firm grasp of how the stealth mechanics work in this game but there is one thing that i do not understand. Many players always refer to this problem as the "in-combat bug". What does this really mean? Is there really a bug that is keeping players "in-combat" , even after disengaging a failed gank and sitting in the middle of a field alone with nobody insight?

What determines how long you are "in-combat" once you have disengaged and nobody is around to see you? These are questions that i really have no idea how to answer since the "in-combat bug" exists.

Feel free to PM me if you want to go into some further depth since this is your shadow cloak thread and stealth mechanics are pretty much irrelevant here.