Cheating and Exploits

BeNashty

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

BeNashty

They are botting, just running around shadowfen in a loop around a dolmen. They move in the exact same footsteps, even down to some of the weird little pivots they do as you will see in the video. Please acknowledge that this is going to be handled, thanks.

phbell

BeNashty wrote: »

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

Perhaps I am missing something here, but those Bots are using Templar skills and running with Sorc Clanfear pets. Or are there Clanfear pets now in the Crown Store?

Edited to add that this post will be "moderated" for Naming and Shaming soon enough...

JamieAubrey

phbell wrote: »

BeNashty wrote: »

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

Perhaps I am missing something here, but those Bots are using Templar skills and running with Sorc Clanfear pets. Or are there Clanfear pets now in the Crown Store?

Edited to add that this post will be "moderated" for Naming and Shaming soon enough...

Those are indeed Sorc's using Templar skills it would seem, although I'm sure there was a quest you got a Clanfear as a pet for that quest, I could be making the last part up as its been 2 years since I did the quests

ManwithBeard9

phbell wrote: »

BeNashty wrote: »

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

Perhaps I am missing something here, but those Bots are using Templar skills and running with Sorc Clanfear pets. Or are there Clanfear pets now in the Crown Store?

Edited to add that this post will be "moderated" for Naming and Shaming soon enough...

There are Sorcs in there, you can see the hard casted Crystal Shards. But that is certainly a bot train.

ForsakenSin

Yes remove those who got skins by cheating

its BS seeing cp240 running around in them ive seen cp90 WTF with it are you kidding me ! ?

Voltranox

I know that with animation cancelling, you can do light or heavy attack - then skill - then block or bash or roll quite quickly. I'm not very good at it, but I'm starting to practice.

I also know that despite the animation cancelling, for all actions there is a global cooldown that can't be shortened. Supposedly. What is extremely common in pvp however, is to be hit by multiple skills in under a second.

From research on the net, there seems to be a couple of legitimate reasons why this sometimes occurs: 1.) Bad lag where there is a noticable delay in the action, and suddenly your game catches up, and several hits appear to land at once. 2.) A bug with Crit Rush that has the attacker's animation 'hover', and then all subsequent hits arrive in a flurry.

These two reasons do not explain situations pvp players have been experiencing, where mutiple skills (including ones that have cast times!) all arrive within one second. This happens commonly, in a smooth no-lag environment. The skills often do not conform to the animation cancelling routine allowed by the game system outlined above, of light or heavy, then skill, then block or roll.

Some players use 'macros' in the game, which is assigning multiple button clicks to just one button. ZOS has stated that it's not allowed. It does offer advantages to players who use them, but theoretically even a macros user would be forced to adhere to the global cooldown.

That is definitely not happening here. It may be macros assisted, but somehow the global cooldowns of actions are also being bypassed. These hackers are going around one-shotting everyone they come across, like calling down a death-ray from an orbiting satellite. 3, 4 or 5 skills with a heavy attack thrown in the middle, in under a second. No doubt they would be using it in pve as well.

Poor_Rakkhat

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Yes remove those who got skins by cheating

its BS seeing cp240 running around in them ive seen cp90 WTF with it are you kidding me ! ?

so i heard all cheaters with skins was not punished by any ways, and they keps their skin

intended?

Krist

I would think people do get banned for these things. I have PvP'ed for many years and we have had cheaters come and go. Some come back on different accounts, and it is obviously them. They end up getting caught again and banned again. People that have known the cheaters that I knew from guilds would talk about them being banned permanently, sometimes thinking that they got the raw end of the deal, which leads me to believe it really happened.
I do not associate with anyone on ESO on a personal level, that I know of, so it could be these folks are returning. However, many cheaters have been recognized by the cheats they portray. It is possible they moved on, but again, people that allegedly know them talk about them being banned.

None of that is to say that there are not cheaters that seem to get away with it. It is obviously some kind of program that allows someone to attack with ONE animation, but hit you with at least 5 moves, and I am not talking about a crit rush bug. I have been caught in the crit rush bug and it has NEVER been to my advantage, so God bless those that it helps.

There are some that really are that good, and that quick, albeit probably with good gaming ware. It is easy to tell the difference though if you pay attention.

With all of that said, I do not worry about these hacks. I just move on. They got some AP off of me, maybe made me shake my head at the ridiculousness of playing a game in god mode....kind of pointless when you think about it. If you want to win without ever losing, then sit there and fantasize about how great you are, because that is all it amounts to. YOU aren't even good if you have to do these things.
The point is, I sure would not quit a game I enjoy because of some 12 year old (*12 year old minded) that is afraid to lose. There are too many other good players to play with.

*12 year old is just a saying, there are very good 12 year olds that play.

kyle.wilson

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

BeNashty wrote: »

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

Perhaps I am missing something here, but those Bots are using Templar skills and running with Sorc Clanfear pets. Or are there Clanfear pets now in the Crown Store?

Edited to add that this post will be "moderated" for Naming and Shaming soon enough...

There are Sorcs in there, you can see the hard casted Crystal Shards. But that is certainly a bot train.

There were 2 Sorcs and 3 Templars that I could tell.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_MattFiror. When will you do something about bot trains. At the rate you catch these people, they are generating a lot of gold for very little risk. When the game is going for as little as $13, botters aren't being hurt by individual account bans. Find out who is profiting from these accounts and ban those ones as well.

Turelus

Poor_Rakkhat wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Yes remove those who got skins by cheating

its BS seeing cp240 running around in them ive seen cp90 WTF with it are you kidding me ! ?

so i heard all cheaters with skins was not punished by any ways, and they keps their skin

intended?

This is the general MO of ZOS.

They're tactic is to patch/fix issues but not generally punish anyone or remove items/gold which was gained.

This was my complaint who knows how many pages back.

ZOS won't (or can't) commit to the resources required to actually caretake the game in a meaningful way, this game will never be fair in regards to cheating/exploiting and I honestly feel we just need to accept that and play for fun.

We can rant, rave and try to help all we want but unless someone at Zenimax Media or ZOS (whoever actually makes the choices) decides to invest in a real ZOS controlled GM team which police the game then nothing will change.

Lastly I know I keep banging on about this but the fact Brian Wheeler (Lead PvP Dev) had no idea of the issues happening on EU Haderus just shows even more the huge disconnect between ZOS and the game, or at least ZOS and the EU servers.

BeNashty

phbell wrote: »

BeNashty wrote: »

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

Perhaps I am missing something here, but those Bots are using Templar skills and running with Sorc Clanfear pets. Or are there Clanfear pets now in the Crown Store?

Edited to add that this post will be "moderated" for Naming and Shaming soon enough...

So take to it a step further...they run back to town and sell...then right back out to grinding. Its not real players, if you watch the video you can clearly see that..I would imagine with a bunch of players running in the exact same footsteps and spamming the exact same ability depending on what class they are, that this would be easy to track bot accounts, especially when there is more than one doing it at the exact same time...whats going on here devs?

PlaceboSoul

Yet another issue that would be probably not eliminated, but definitely reduced if this game went subscription instead of f2p. ZOS would have more money, and players, with a full sub rather than the weak benefits of eso+, could access all items and accessories ingame. Nothing locked behind a paywall, less things to worry about being hacked and sold by scammers. Also, the endgame would be more fun, actually running around to loot items to collect them, rather than paying real cash for them.

Yet another company making things better for the rich, while the poor get a second rate experience.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Yet another issue that would be probably not eliminated, but definitely reduced if this game went subscription instead of f2p. ZOS would have more money, and players, with a full sub rather than the weak benefits of eso+, could access all items and accessories ingame. Nothing locked behind a paywall, less things to worry about being hacked and sold by scammers. Also, the endgame would be more fun, actually running around to loot items to collect them, rather than paying real cash for them.

Yet another company making things better for the rich, while the poor get a second rate experience.

I pay for ESO+. The only reason is I'm a master crafter and need the crafting bag. Other than that I wouldn't. I don't think the XP bonus applies to gaining CP, only to leveling 1-50 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The extra gold we're supposed to get from drops (both enemies and looting) I believe is supposed to continue after 50. It doesn't seem to so that's a disappointment. But there's a thread where people can discuss changes they'd like

Enodoc

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Yet another issue that would be probably not eliminated, but definitely reduced if this game went subscription instead of f2p. ZOS would have more money, and players, with a full sub rather than the weak benefits of eso+, could access all items and accessories ingame. Nothing locked behind a paywall, less things to worry about being hacked and sold by scammers. Also, the endgame would be more fun, actually running around to loot items to collect them, rather than paying real cash for them.

Yet another company making things better for the rich, while the poor get a second rate experience.

They're not going to bring back the sub model. If that was viable they wouldn't have gotten rid of it in the first place.

PlaceboSoul

Not that easy. There is a difference between trying a sub model with a new game, and trying it once it's out there with an established following. Getting people to pay monthly for something new is not the same as switching to it once it's well known.

Enodoc

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Not that easy. There is a difference between trying a sub model with a new game, and trying it once it's out there with an established following. Getting people to pay monthly for something new is not the same as switching to it once it's well known.

Maybe so, but does the same apply to a game that once had a sub model and then dropped it? Has any game ever gone back to subs after dropping them?

phairdon

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Yet another issue that would be probably not eliminated, but definitely reduced if this game went subscription instead of f2p. ZOS would have more money, and players, with a full sub rather than the weak benefits of eso+, could access all items and accessories ingame. Nothing locked behind a paywall, less things to worry about being hacked and sold by scammers. Also, the endgame would be more fun, actually running around to loot items to collect them, rather than paying real cash for them.

Yet another company making things better for the rich, while the poor get a second rate experience.

If you were playing this game back in 2014, when subscriptions were mandatory, you'd know about the bot problem back then. Bots trains were a lot bigger, far more common, along with all the bots camped in delves, etc.

PlaceboSoul

Enodoc wrote: »

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Not that easy. There is a difference between trying a sub model with a new game, and trying it once it's out there with an established following. Getting people to pay monthly for something new is not the same as switching to it once it's well known.

Maybe so, but does the same apply to a game that once had a sub model and then dropped it? Has any game ever gone back to subs after dropping them?

That's what I'm talking about. I think it was more a case of when they tried the sub model then anything. Starting a new game with a sub is hard. If they converted eso+ to a full sub now, even just due to the craft bag, there are a ton of eso+ members. The current model with in app purchase, it's just another way for rich kids to show off their ePeen. I think it would not only be a more fair system for all, but I think the game would be more successful now under sub then when it first tried.

It's easy to look back and say it didn't work, but in the beginning there were not as many eso+ subs either, look now.

zaria

Enodoc wrote: »

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Not that easy. There is a difference between trying a sub model with a new game, and trying it once it's out there with an established following. Getting people to pay monthly for something new is not the same as switching to it once it's well known.

Maybe so, but does the same apply to a game that once had a sub model and then dropped it? Has any game ever gone back to subs after dropping them?

This ESO has lots of players now, going sub might *** of an million players.
Better to boost eso+, 4x items in houses, hireling mails are stored for an week, 50 quests in log.

zaria

phairdon wrote: »

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Yet another issue that would be probably not eliminated, but definitely reduced if this game went subscription instead of f2p. ZOS would have more money, and players, with a full sub rather than the weak benefits of eso+, could access all items and accessories ingame. Nothing locked behind a paywall, less things to worry about being hacked and sold by scammers. Also, the endgame would be more fun, actually running around to loot items to collect them, rather than paying real cash for them.

Yet another company making things better for the rich, while the poor get a second rate experience.

If you were playing this game back in 2014, when subscriptions were mandatory, you'd know about the bot problem back then. Bots trains were a lot bigger, far more common, along with all the bots camped in delves, etc.

In 2014 the bots was professional gold sellers running scams with stolen credit cards, now it looks more like players wanting free xp. Probably make ZoS less willing to nuke from orbit.

PlaceboSoul

zaria wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Not that easy. There is a difference between trying a sub model with a new game, and trying it once it's out there with an established following. Getting people to pay monthly for something new is not the same as switching to it once it's well known.

Maybe so, but does the same apply to a game that once had a sub model and then dropped it? Has any game ever gone back to subs after dropping them?

This ESO has lots of players now, going sub might *** of an million players.
Better to boost eso+, 4x items in houses, hireling mails are stored for an week, 50 quests in log.

My thinking though, the ones who are pissed off and leave, will most likely be the freebie players that don't hit the crown store, so no loss to ZOS, and the ones that like the game will just start paying. The ones that don't like the game enough, probably not a big loss.

My main point though, isn't to just add sub, its elimination of the crown store. Putting all the mounts, new content, clothing, etc into the game as loot. So basically eso+, but instead of 1500 crowns, no need for crowns because everything is in the game.

I put a lot of cash into the game, but I, as well as many other eso+ subbers, have hit a bit of a plateau. I don't buy anything in the crown store anymore, it's losing its appeal. Dropping $50 for a new mount skin? That's ridiculous. I'd much rather just continue paying monthly, and loot everything in game. I think a lot of people are starting to think this way.

Even non eso+ folks that occasionally buy something, it's better for everyone to just drop $20 every month, then drop $50 now and then. In the long run it is better for ZOS too, since the income is consistent, and steadier.

Just my point of view, because I love this game, but I have hated the in app purchase game model ever since it first reared its ugly head. I'd rather subscribe and pay as I go, then be torn on what to buy each month in a crown store.

Luftballoon

Right this minute there are literally dozens of players macro-ing at the Myrkwasa dolmen. They are perched on a rock out of danger and shooting ranged attacks at the dolmen spawn point. I have several screenshots but apparently it would be mean to "shame" them. If a real live GM would go there they could bust them all at once. I use "bust" because one is more likely to get "banned" posting here than exploiting in-game.

I mean really, has anyone EVER seen a Zmax employee in game?

hamgatan

its not just dolmens.. the bots are infesting Public Dungeons as well.

i.e. just now in the Vile Manse. same sequence. Bubble build Templar casting in the exact same order in the exact same timing.. blazing.. rune... shard...repentance... blazing... rune... shard... repentance...

did about an hour circular grinding it, Bot didn't move.

https://youtu.be/fWq3UxLqStI

PlaceboSoul

Played since launch, and I've never seen a ZOS GM in game. They really should start doing that. It was imho one of the coolest things with Everquest back in the day. If you did something shady, you wouldn't just be anonymously banned or punished, an actual PC would arrive in a flashy manner, usually an explosion graphic teleport, and the GM was always decked out in ultra high gear. They'd actually talk to you character to character in game.

It was actually one of the coolest experiences in the game, almost worth getting in trouble now and then to see it.

Dral_Shady

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Played since launch, and I've never seen a ZOS GM in game. They really should start doing that. It was imho one of the coolest things with Everquest back in the day. If you did something shady, you wouldn't just be anonymously banned or punished, an actual PC would arrive in a flashy manner, usually an explosion graphic teleport, and the GM was always decked out in ultra high gear. They'd actually talk to you character to character in game.

It was actually one of the coolest experiences in the game, almost worth getting in trouble now and then to see it.

Hell yea and completely off topic but I remember a GM coming into the chat rooms, (before you logged on to a server) where my guild was discussing its course and was kinda in crisis, cheering us up and encouraging us.
That was damn cool. They also had their own special hideout ingame.

Isbilen

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Played since launch, and I've never seen a ZOS GM in game. They really should start doing that. It was imho one of the coolest things with Everquest back in the day. If you did something shady, you wouldn't just be anonymously banned or punished, an actual PC would arrive in a flashy manner, usually an explosion graphic teleport, and the GM was always decked out in ultra high gear. They'd actually talk to you character to character in game.

It was actually one of the coolest experiences in the game, almost worth getting in trouble now and then to see it.

GMs were wiping bots in delves at launch. I dug up some pictures people took from that time:
http://imgur.com/a/0ROq9
http://imgur.com/k5Rxi5q

Miswar

During this PvP "test" have seen more cheating to last an lifetime on EU PS4 servers.

Some "top" PvP names are abusing this double ap week.

I gather many have reported and you really should start taking action againts these players.

It has been absurd to say at least.

PlaceboSoul

Isbilen wrote: »

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Played since launch, and I've never seen a ZOS GM in game. They really should start doing that. It was imho one of the coolest things with Everquest back in the day. If you did something shady, you wouldn't just be anonymously banned or punished, an actual PC would arrive in a flashy manner, usually an explosion graphic teleport, and the GM was always decked out in ultra high gear. They'd actually talk to you character to character in game.

It was actually one of the coolest experiences in the game, almost worth getting in trouble now and then to see it.

GMs were wiping bots in delves at launch. I dug up some pictures people took from that time:
http://imgur.com/a/0ROq9
http://imgur.com/k5Rxi5q

Isbilen wrote: »

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Played since launch, and I've never seen a ZOS GM in game. They really should start doing that. It was imho one of the coolest things with Everquest back in the day. If you did something shady, you wouldn't just be anonymously banned or punished, an actual PC would arrive in a flashy manner, usually an explosion graphic teleport, and the GM was always decked out in ultra high gear. They'd actually talk to you character to character in game.

It was actually one of the coolest experiences in the game, almost worth getting in trouble now and then to see it.

GMs were wiping bots in delves at launch. I dug up some pictures people took from that time:
http://imgur.com/a/0ROq9
http://imgur.com/k5Rxi5q

Very, very cool, exactly what I was talking about. I wish they were in game more often. Gm's in games are like beat cops on the street, if people know they could be there, it's a deterrent. Sad that we need that, but people will lie, cheat and steal if given opportunity and a chance to get away with it.

Would be so cool if they had a larger presence, those pics are the first times I've ever seen them in game. They are like leprechauns and unicorns right now, seen by so few, most people are written of as crazy or liars hehe.

erickhwk

BeNashty wrote: »

So i'm assuming this is where i report this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLN6sgJUz4

Oh, they're still here, i just crossed paths with the bot train.

ZOS, are you there?