Azura's Star NA PC Thread

Scamh

So.... who is excited about the great advertising campaign ZOS is setting up for non-CP pvp?

I'm honestly enjoying all the forum hysteria about it. Some people react to this announcement as if they're terminally ill and "PvPing with CP from Feb 27 to March 6" is their very last wish lol. Heads-up to you lurkers, and we know you're out there cause this is the best pvp thread: playing without CP really isn't the end of the universe (that spot's already taken by a restaurant).

Kartalin

Lol, yeah some people are pretty hysterical about it, saying their OP builds won't work etc. But also glad to see some new faces in Az last night on all sides working on no CP builds and trying it out. And even in the forum here asking questions!

@Scamh +1 for the Hitchhiker's reference

WhiteMage

I am WAY to happy about the sky-is-falling comments I am readying about people who depend on CP, and ecstatic that the devs seems to finally be coming to their senses.

#NoCPMasterRace

technohic

I don't want to mock people unhappy with losing their CP campaign just because I would be bummed if I lost my non-CP campaign. They probably could have just doubled AP in Azuras to draw people in that were willing.

Edit: my hope would be that people see some fun in AS and choose to come more often and I think some good-will incentives to try would be better than just forcing it on them.

Scamh

Haha there goes my deliberate sowing of confusion. Here's your pan galactic gargle blaster, sir!

WhiteMage

technohic wrote: »

I don't want to mock people unhappy with losing their CP campaign just because I would be bummed if I lost my non-CP campaign. They probably could have just doubled AP in Azuras to draw people in that were willing.

Edit: my hope would be that people see some fun in AS and choose to come more often and I think some good-will incentives to try would be better than just forcing it on them.

That wouldn't address the glaring problem of how CP unbalances combat though, so by forcing it on them we get the benefits of making people try new things to really evaluate their opinions of it with the side effect of improved balance overall.

technohic

WhiteMage wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I don't want to mock people unhappy with losing their CP campaign just because I would be bummed if I lost my non-CP campaign. They probably could have just doubled AP in Azuras to draw people in that were willing.

Edit: my hope would be that people see some fun in AS and choose to come more often and I think some good-will incentives to try would be better than just forcing it on them.

That wouldn't address the glaring problem of how CP unbalances combat though, so by forcing it on them we get the benefits of making people try new things to really evaluate their opinions of it with the side effect of improved balance overall.

You put double AP out there; I bet people come enough to test. If not; you can put more incentives out there. At some point, people will want the loots.

WhiteMage

And at some point you gave out so much loot that you broke something economically.

technohic

WhiteMage wrote: »

And at some point you gave out so much loot that you broke something economically.

Well; there's no shortage on that either way. Seems to always be flag trading going on somewhere.

WhiteMage

The brokeness of one thing does not justify breaking another.

technohic

WhiteMage wrote: »

The brokeness of one thing does not justify breaking another.

I agree. But I don't think it would break anything by doing just one campaign with double AP compared to all of them. They're already going to be injecting large amounts of AP into the game which will devalue it as currency.

WhiteMage

Maybe. But it doesn't facilitate the gathering of data nearly as well as this heavy handed approach, which is the whole purpose.

Besides. My whole playstyle feels validated this way lol.

Scamh

I have no problem whatsoever with people preferring one campaign over the other, but I do find it baffling that they'd choose to stay in an unplayable campaign indefinitely if it means they don't lose their CP for a week. Seems to me like a l2priorities issue.

Aeko

It's quite sad that after I said I was going to just take a break this campaign I have to come back to grind some Ap again because if I don't I'll feel like I'm missing an opportunity. I'm also just realizing that the campaign ends today instead of Sunday which is just embarrassing.

I'm interested to see how people on Trueflame handle the lack of CP and their opinions: it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

heystreethawk

Aeko wrote: »

it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

Nah, I

Vurian97 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Anyway, I think we had our most fun scroll run in a while retrieving Altadoon, and someone hate whispered the notion that 13 people was a zerg, so we'll return.

Welcome to Azura's Star, where everything higher than 4 people is considered a zerg.

Ignore the whispers, they'll come in bursts and they happen all the time. Azura's Star is more Azura's Salt more than anything. I wish I had been online when Fantasia came in, I had left early last night. Shame I missed out on the fun!

Thanks! We should be back soon.

Aeko wrote: »

it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

Nah, I don't think that's the right read of the thing. Anyone who's played long enough to get to CP cap, with their day-to-day priority being PvP, knows the following to be the way of it: experience is the single biggest advantage you can possibly have. On the battlefield, you see very little difference between a cp80 player and a cp600 tyro with a hard mode maw title. Even if the latter guy has done all the reading, put together proper cyro gear and alotted all 600 champion points in the Best Possible Places, he's gonna hit the floor against someone who's been at it much longer. A raid of 24 such people, properly geared and max level but lacking the PvP playtime, will freeze up their seasoned enemy's screen as they burst into AP.

And that's good! That's how it should be. It incentivizes learning, drives the people who care to get better to do so, and it reminds us that there's a certain threshold of actual skill you must hit before you need to worry about nonsense deciding the battle. Hurrah for that.

But it also means that no one with anything close to a substantial investment in Cyrodiil thinks of their CP as an advantage over newcomers. I'm sorry, but it's just crazy talk. Ain't no body need more advantage over a newcomer. Perhaps, when the CPocalypse hits and we all mix our bodies together, this will disappoint people who have been expecting an even ground. It should not disappoint you; it should energize you, because it suggests you can reach that even ground through your own merits, and your own hard work, if you continue to put in the time. This is the big decider, and not the stars of certain colors.

Talcyndl

Hate to give DC suggestions...

But, the proc sets are very powerful on Azuras.

My hope is, if ZOS removes CP from all the campaigns, they will be forced to address proc sets more than simply removing crits.

Vurian97

An awesome ending to the last campaign cycle! Daggerfall Covenant came out victorious. The last few days were intense as the Ebonheart Pact scrambled for a chance at first, multiple days of night-capping / morning-capping to try to catch up! Awesome fun.

The beginning of the new cycle started out like this:
The Aldmeri Dominion was #1 for the first hour of the campaign cycle.
Daggerfall Covenant was #1 for the next 14 hours. (Prime-time until night-cap began by AD & EP)
Ebonheart Pact night-capped and took lead at 15hours into the campaign.


I hope this doesn't become a night-capping campaign where whoever has the bigger Oceanic / Late-US PvP group wins.

Minno

Talcyndl wrote: »

Hate to give DC suggestions...

But, the proc sets are very powerful on Azuras.

My hope is, if ZOS removes CP from all the campaigns, they will be forced to address proc sets more than simply removing crits.

Well it's tough. I'm under the same thinking as you but I'm not sure.
I was on AZ all night last night and towards the end, I was able to pick the correct skill selection to match my playstyle for the nCP. But my healing and mitigation was on point despite being in 5 light. My deaths were either from poor positioning, forgetting my class (most of my deaths ), a few amazing stam players that knew their toolkit (damn you dizzying swing stuns lol), and well timed proc sets. But the proc sets felt normal, like the hits were manageable for me and I could return dmg back (especially against nightblades that tried to Hank me).

That's my two cents. I do think they need to review the proc dmg, but also review the healing/dmg numbers overall. It all could use a tiny tweak to allow a solo player to avoid zergs without being this OP terminator.

Minno

heystreethawk wrote: »

Aeko wrote: »

it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

Nah, I

Vurian97 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Anyway, I think we had our most fun scroll run in a while retrieving Altadoon, and someone hate whispered the notion that 13 people was a zerg, so we'll return.

Welcome to Azura's Star, where everything higher than 4 people is considered a zerg.

Ignore the whispers, they'll come in bursts and they happen all the time. Azura's Star is more Azura's Salt more than anything. I wish I had been online when Fantasia came in, I had left early last night. Shame I missed out on the fun!

Thanks! We should be back soon.

Aeko wrote: »

it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

Nah, I don't think that's the right read of the thing. Anyone who's played long enough to get to CP cap, with their day-to-day priority being PvP, knows the following to be the way of it: experience is the single biggest advantage you can possibly have. On the battlefield, you see very little difference between a cp80 player and a cp600 tyro with a hard mode maw title. Even if the latter guy has done all the reading, put together proper cyro gear and alotted all 600 champion points in the Best Possible Places, he's gonna hit the floor against someone who's been at it much longer. A raid of 24 such people, properly geared and max level but lacking the PvP playtime, will freeze up their seasoned enemy's screen as they burst into AP.

And that's good! That's how it should be. It incentivizes learning, drives the people who care to get better to do so, and it reminds us that there's a certain threshold of actual skill you must hit before you need to worry about nonsense deciding the battle. Hurrah for that.

But it also means that no one with anything close to a substantial investment in Cyrodiil thinks of their CP as an advantage over newcomers. I'm sorry, but it's just crazy talk. Ain't no body need more advantage over a newcomer. Perhaps, when the CPocalypse hits and we all mix our bodies together, this will disappoint people who have been expecting an even ground. It should not disappoint you; it should energize you, because it suggests you can reach that even ground through your own merits, and your own hard work, if you continue to put in the time. This is the big decider, and not the stars of certain colors.

I'd like for CP to remain, but the 25% extra mitigation, extra crit resistance and dmg is hard to ignore. Without these the player needs to know how to burst and position otherwise they are dead in AZ. And to me this feels like proper end game since we don't have free stats helping us.

heystreethawk

Minno wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Aeko wrote: »

it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

Nah, I

Vurian97 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Anyway, I think we had our most fun scroll run in a while retrieving Altadoon, and someone hate whispered the notion that 13 people was a zerg, so we'll return.

Welcome to Azura's Star, where everything higher than 4 people is considered a zerg.

Ignore the whispers, they'll come in bursts and they happen all the time. Azura's Star is more Azura's Salt more than anything. I wish I had been online when Fantasia came in, I had left early last night. Shame I missed out on the fun!

Thanks! We should be back soon.

Aeko wrote: »

it was slightly sad to see people complaining about how CP should remain and they would leave the game just because they worked so hard to make sure they had an advantage over newcomers.

Nah, I don't think that's the right read of the thing. Anyone who's played long enough to get to CP cap, with their day-to-day priority being PvP, knows the following to be the way of it: experience is the single biggest advantage you can possibly have. On the battlefield, you see very little difference between a cp80 player and a cp600 tyro with a hard mode maw title. Even if the latter guy has done all the reading, put together proper cyro gear and alotted all 600 champion points in the Best Possible Places, he's gonna hit the floor against someone who's been at it much longer. A raid of 24 such people, properly geared and max level but lacking the PvP playtime, will freeze up their seasoned enemy's screen as they burst into AP.

And that's good! That's how it should be. It incentivizes learning, drives the people who care to get better to do so, and it reminds us that there's a certain threshold of actual skill you must hit before you need to worry about nonsense deciding the battle. Hurrah for that.

But it also means that no one with anything close to a substantial investment in Cyrodiil thinks of their CP as an advantage over newcomers. I'm sorry, but it's just crazy talk. Ain't no body need more advantage over a newcomer. Perhaps, when the CPocalypse hits and we all mix our bodies together, this will disappoint people who have been expecting an even ground. It should not disappoint you; it should energize you, because it suggests you can reach that even ground through your own merits, and your own hard work, if you continue to put in the time. This is the big decider, and not the stars of certain colors.

I'd like for CP to remain, but the 25% extra mitigation, extra crit resistance and dmg is hard to ignore. Without these the player needs to know how to burst and position otherwise they are dead in AZ. And to me this feels like proper end game since we don't have free stats helping us.

My impressions are that the lack of mitigation doesn't hurt as much as I expected, outside of siege, because the damage is lower. I do feel the lack of break free cost reduction, and the lack of block cost reduction, the latter of which is twofold -- needed to wear a lil more impen to get to the sweet spot without Resistant, which means less Sturdy.

After adjusting to that, I still think it's safe to say that most low-cp players have a little less experience under their belt, and that it makes for the single biggest discrepancy in success on the battlefield, outweighing the statistical advantage of champion points.

Talcyndl

Vurian97 wrote: »

An awesome ending to the last campaign cycle! Daggerfall Covenant came out victorious. The last few days were intense as the Ebonheart Pact scrambled for a chance at first, multiple days of night-capping / morning-capping to try to catch up! Awesome fun.

The beginning of the new cycle started out like this:
The Aldmeri Dominion was #1 for the first hour of the campaign cycle.
Daggerfall Covenant was #1 for the next 14 hours. (Prime-time until night-cap began by AD & EP)
Ebonheart Pact night-capped and took lead at 15hours into the campaign.


I hope this doesn't become a night-capping campaign where whoever has the bigger Oceanic / Late-US PvP group wins.

EP just uses strategic positioning during off hours.

Chillmatic

Talcyndl wrote: »

EP just uses strategic positioning during off hours.

Early to bed, early to rise

But on a real note, as others have mentioned hopefully this no CP experiment will shed a little light on siege/guard damage... both could use a little toning down. That, and maybe not getting negated 15 times when you push into a keep or spammed with the reflect debuff on a resource would be nice.

Talcyndl

Chillmatic wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

EP just uses strategic positioning during off hours.

Early to bed, early to rise

But on a real note, as others have mentioned hopefully this no CP experiment will shed a little light on siege/guard damage... both could use a little toning down. That, and maybe not getting negated 15 times when you push into a keep or spammed with the reflect debuff on a resource would be nice.

Personally, I like having the NPC's be challenging. Whenever I play on TF, it takes me a while to remember that the guards are to be completely ignored.

Vurian97

Talcyndl wrote: »

Vurian97 wrote: »

An awesome ending to the last campaign cycle! Daggerfall Covenant came out victorious. The last few days were intense as the Ebonheart Pact scrambled for a chance at first, multiple days of night-capping / morning-capping to try to catch up! Awesome fun.

The beginning of the new cycle started out like this:
The Aldmeri Dominion was #1 for the first hour of the campaign cycle.
Daggerfall Covenant was #1 for the next 14 hours. (Prime-time until night-cap began by AD & EP)
Ebonheart Pact night-capped and took lead at 15hours into the campaign.


I hope this doesn't become a night-capping campaign where whoever has the bigger Oceanic / Late-US PvP group wins.

EP just uses strategic positioning during off hours.

I find it funny that you used that wording because of me. However, my point was the fact that DC had the same population as the other two factions, however, it is very clear that the night-hours someone is fielding numbers higher than the others. Last night I was online to try to help slow the night-cap and we were met with 15 EP attacking 6-8 DC for a vast majority of the night. 8 hours straight of just beating our head's on the wall but if we had left, our scrolls wouldn't have made it.

Aeko

Chillmatic wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

EP just uses strategic positioning during off hours.

That, and maybe not getting negated 15 times when you push into a keep or spammed with the reflect debuff on a resource would be nice.

The negate and eclipses from resources are extremely oppressive, especially as someone like me who always ends up shooting his merciless resolve or destro heavy back at himself like a nub. I'm not entirely sure how the NPC scaling works currently but some of the spells shouldn't unlock until higher resource levels, feels like regardless of level they can still use the abilities.

Its fun though when your solo defending a resource and an NPC places a random and lucky negate on an enemy and you can chuckle at your enemies frustration as the melee guards keep stunning the guy while they remain in it

Talcyndl

Vurian97 wrote: »

I find it funny that you used that wording because of me. However, my point was the fact that DC had the same population as the other two factions, however, it is very clear that the night-hours someone is fielding numbers higher than the others. Last night I was online to try to help slow the night-cap and we were met with 15 EP attacking 6-8 DC for a vast majority of the night. 8 hours straight of just beating our head's on the wall but if we had left, our scrolls wouldn't have made it.

Joke: A type of less serious forum posting.

You should try it sometime.

ellahellabella

I seem to remember an hour before this proclamed zerging by ep, there was an 18 player dc group doing laps of Chalman resources. Nah, much have been my imagination. We all know dc only smallmans.

You all going to Trueflame next week during az quiet hours? I'm certain that I'll be having a ball there!

Vurian97

ellahellabella wrote: »

I seem to remember an hour before this proclamed zerging by ep, there was an 18 player dc group doing laps of Chalman resources. Nah, much have been my imagination. We all know dc only smallmans.

I like how you didn't mention how many EP were there.


However, once again, another fun night in Azura's Star. Daggerfall Covenant is greatly outnumbered now and so we are no longer the super faction. We are returning to the dark days of having Aldmeri and Ebonheart as the super factions. I hope that the Daggerfall Covenant doesn't lose more.

As of right now, the Daggerfall Covenant as Legion of Death Gaming as a Medium / Large-Scale PvP guild and then have some periodic Small-Scale guilds that drop in here and there. There are pug / random groups that form up in chat and so the organization has left the faction. It looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me, but it will be a fun campaign cycle none the less. The challenge has arrived and it is time for us to see if we are up for it!

Humphie

DC outnumbered = only 3 bars vs. 2 bars AD/EP

I swear Vurian, if you don't watch it, you going to end up like Tamerlin soon. Soooo full of himself.

ellahellabella

Surprisingly it was 2 bars dc vs 2 bars ep for a change. And no, you were not outnumbered and I can say that because I don't look at my faction wearing rose coloured specs. Once dc gave up and went to 1 bar, I left as did many other ep.

But if ep did zerg you down after I left, I feel no pity for you. How are them shoes feeling now that they're on your feet Chief?

*Edit* spelling