[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Chori

And the faith on truth shall be rewarded! Although I was expecting some more

It is time for this community to stop supporting these people, time to stop giving them the credibility and the attention they are always trying to get. We should not tolerate attempts to save face here, idgaf personally how much "you" can or want to help this game, how much video content you even want to create because at the end of the day smart people still know who you are.

Respect to @manny254 for calling the bs out the way he did, as for the rest of the people called out and being unbanned/not even banned your time will come too.

Roechacca

I don't usually talk but I feel it necessary today. There's a lot of evidence against some of these players out there on top of a several witnesses. Yet, I keep hearing people say "Do you have a link to a video that proofs it?" Do we really need video proof for ZOS to take action? Does non of this compiled evidence and eye witness accounts mean nothing here? So here is a little of my thoughts, just a little. Curious if I'm the only one that thinks this video proof thing is a sham to divert the issue.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FRXq2RR1rFA

yodased

Roechacca wrote: »

I don't usually talk but I feel it necessary today. There's a lot of evidence against some of these players out there on top of a several witnesses. Yet, I keep hearing people say "Do you have a link to a video that proofs it?" Do we really need video proof for ZOS to take action? Does non of this compiled evidence and eye witness accounts mean nothing here? So here is a little of my thoughts, just a little. Curious if I'm the only one that thinks this video proof thing is a sham to divert the issue.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FRXq2RR1rFA

Other than the constant assault to those with nasal allergies, not a bad rant

You know how I feel about cheaters I think, evidence + jury of your peers is to me the most safe and fair way

Ch4mpTW

Arthg wrote: »

There ain't too many ways to get a response from ZOS, I figure.
I mean a real response, not some half-baked copy n' paste from a community manager.

Efficient anti-cheats need resources invested.
Only management can untie the purse strings and dedicate those resources.
Thing is, management is real happy 'cause folks are buying tacky 4,000-crowns mounts.

So to prompt a response from top-brass - ZOS's response to cheating needs to be NUKED IN THE MEDIA.

@Turelus @Pomaikai @Ch4mpTW if I'm not mistaken have already mentioned a will and means to do just that.

A scrub like me who cares but ain't got no valuable connections, but is willing to chip in regardless, needs a template message and a distribution list, or something along those lines - I for one will play my part.

If anyone here is sceptical, please please take the time to read @Crown's post here.
This post shows how long the issue has been around, and how outfriggin'rageously disgraceful ZOS's response has been so far.
Further evidence of this can be found at 7:17 into @FENGRUSH's video - where you learn that before the case two weeks ago snowballed into this here forum drama (with no hint whatsoever that it all led to anything beyond words and four-day "permabans"), the most blatant cheaters were issued a mere 8-hour ban for spamming meteors.

So, yeah.
When is enough just gonna be enough?

#SaveThisGameNukeItInThePress

@Arthg
You're 100% correct (and a pretty awesome post might I add). What ZOS' take on things is, I have no idea. They give off mixed signals to me, and often I find myself really disappointed in the end. ._.

God_flakes

Zheg wrote: »

Don't worry guys, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom is just busy responding to other, more important issues today like the ones below. They'll get around to addressing this in the future, maybe.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/3076714#Comment_3076714
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/3077196#Comment_3077196
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/3076669#Comment_3076669

Smh.

Shameful.

dagonbeer

I doubt any permabanned players have been unbanned, but I'm guessing that ZOS is far behind in terms of their anti-cheat tools and what with the DB console release, their dev teams are probably swamped. So 43 were probably banned due to video evidence or other blatant behaviour, while most others roam free due to the lack of proof. For those who saw the cheaters return, are we sure that they were banned in the first place, or merely suspended?

So I expect there to be some official word later today that no one who has been banned has been unbanned, and that they'll continue monitoring the situation. Hopefully once console release furor is over, they can actually do something about this.

Zaldan

Malthorne wrote: »

"Play dirty, get away clean"

hey, that's my line ;P

zyk

dagonbeer wrote: »

For those who saw the cheaters return, are we sure that they were banned in the first place, or merely suspended?

Do you see any lawyers or judges? No. However, in some cases these players told their friends they were perma-banned and their friends told everyone else. It is recognized as fact in some of the social circles these players are part of.

God_flakes

Makkir wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

The 'word on the street' should get the managers name and report them. The amount of liability ZoS opens itself up to through unequal rule application can be retirement worthy and even a good old boy system will crumble when money is on the line.

I have no doubt this will also come out. @Makkir we could put you on the case. Hue hue hue

Are we referring to the European country or the Grand Slam guy?[/quote]

Your hard work on the case of the mysterious Blinker.

Makkir

I would pay 10k crowns for a transfer to XB1.
Wish I had jumped on the opportunity when it was there

Armitas

Makkir wrote: »

I would pay 10k crowns for a transfer to XB1.
Wish I had jumped on the opportunity when it was there

The addons though...

Xylphan

Semner wrote: »

I have no way of knowing what ZOS is doing in regards to this issue, but have you considered the possibility that they have people working on this and are simply keeping quiet about it for the sake of, as they've said, catching people in the act and not giving them the opportunity to find a way around any fix they implement?

Considered, gave the benefit of the doubt, then realized that trust was misplaced. People who have been caught red handed cheating either still roam freely or were perma^H^H^H^H temporarily banned and are now back. The recent actions coupled with previous exploits that people were caught using and receiving nothing more than slaps on the wrist (and even being allowed to keep ill-gotten gains) makes it pretty clear where cheating and exploiting falls on the scale of importance.

Semner wrote: »

It's just a thought. Hackers are bad for business. I can guarantee they know that. Yes, it's taking a while but perhaps it's more complex of a fix than originally intended? Again, I don't know. But I just wouldn't be so quick to assume that the sky is falling.

Oh no, cheaters and hackers aren't bad for business. They're only bad for publicity, which then becomes bad for business if enough of a stink is raised.

Well now we have hackers/cheaters prominently displayed on the leader boards. Hard to hide that. Even harder to hide the ever increasing number of youtube videos and streamers who capture people in the act, and those people are still playing the game (and in some cases, still cheating). We even have the cheaters themselves coming on to these very forums defending/bragging about it.

At the very least, it's clear they don't have enough manpower to police the game. Given the aggressive content schedule, they probably don't have the manpower to adequately address the exploits either. They seem overwhelmed just dealing with bugs and defects.

This isn't a a problem with the devs. It's a problem with management. Someone is cutting corners and focusing on the short term bottom line instead of the long term sustainability of the game. That never ends well for an MMO, but there's still time to turn things around.

But they'll be doing it with fewer subscribers, as can be seen in this thread.

Loralai_907

They have made their stance very clear.

Did anyone else read the article about the barber shop and Argonion dungeon pack? It said, in not these exact words, they don't have long term players, they have players that come and play for a few weeks and then take off again until the next update. That statement mixed with how they handle things pretty much tells me that they give zero *** about their long term players. Because we DO actually exist, even though you just dam said we do not. So fine, you want us to not exist? Be careful what you wish for.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/06/15/e3-2016-the-elder-scrolls-online-to-receive-new-dungeons-customisation-and-housing-dlc

Pomaikai

Tandor wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Hey guys lay off Alan. He's just trying to do his job. This is a very sensitive topic. Let's refocus on what's important. Discuss the cheating not thread management.

Hold the phone here! The problem is in fact 100% THE MANAGEMENT!!!!!

It has been from the start.

Wrong. The problem is in fact 100% THE CHEATS!!!!!

It has been from the start.

Wrong. It has been about how management has dealt with the cheats. There will always be cheaters. What separates a good gaming company from a bad one is how they deal with those cheaters.

PainfulFAFA

Turelus wrote: »

How other MMO Games have handled Cheating/Exploiting/Botting or account security.

World of Warcraft
List of in game violations: https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/300736 / https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/200475

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17347095985
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2299938/account-security-and-you-yes-you-2-16-2011
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13742212/heartbleed-account-security-notice-4-10-2014
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20744124429
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17611531106
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16885292570
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16517812096?page=2#31
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7340145661?page=2#30

Guild Wars / Guild Wars 2
Exploit Meaning: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exploit

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/support/How-to-Report-Cheaters-or-Exploiters


SWTOR
Rules of Conduct: http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=789578
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=120099
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=880092
http://www.swtor.com/blog/action-being-taken-against-exploits-and-cheats
http://www.swtor.com/blog/action-being-taken-against-fraudulent-payment-activity
http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-blog-busting-bugs-and-fixing-exploits

Black Desert Online
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/91821-ban-waves/
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/83276-hacker-hunting-initiative/

EVE Online
Known & Declared Exploits: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits
Suspension and Ban Policy: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/suspension-and-ban-policy/

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/macro-users-banned/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/drone-exploit-warning/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-warning/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/team-security-now-with-100-percent-more-anti-rmt/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/begun-the-bot-war-has/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/client-modification-the-eula-and-you/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/unholy-rage/

EVE Online Team Security Presentations

2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG13u9KKtzE
2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vd-CpnjvAM
2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZR9w3ftjY
2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE

Tree of Savior
This is a game released this year which have a very rough launch and was riddled with bots, they have done more active work in two months than I have seen from ZOS two years. The fact there are so many bots being a separate issue look how often they update people on bans done. I actually decided to stop posting links because there were so many.

https://treeofsavior.com/news/?n=377
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/banned-boleto-exploit-abusers/200822
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-april-19th-2016/204251
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-april-22nd-2016/210857
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-april-23rd-2016/212617
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-april-24th-2016/214434
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-april-30th-2016/235489
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-may-2nd-2016/241520
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/accounts-banned-for-abuse-april-21st-2016/208699

I could keep going but honestly I have spent a good 30mins of my evening on this already and would rather play some games, I think this should be enough to prove my point however.

As a fun side note, every time I type a game into Google now it recommends "exploits" as the next word.

Checkmate.
GG.

phbell

<Deleted by me>

rfennell_ESO

yodased wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

I don't usually talk but I feel it necessary today. There's a lot of evidence against some of these players out there on top of a several witnesses. Yet, I keep hearing people say "Do you have a link to a video that proofs it?" Do we really need video proof for ZOS to take action? Does non of this compiled evidence and eye witness accounts mean nothing here? So here is a little of my thoughts, just a little. Curious if I'm the only one that thinks this video proof thing is a sham to divert the issue.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FRXq2RR1rFA

Other than the constant assault to those with nasal allergies, not a bad rant

You know how I feel about cheaters I think, evidence + jury of your peers is to me the most safe and fair way

Yah obviously the entire reason why they keep clamoring for video proof is they know most people don't record everything. Even if so, they will have a "animation cancelling" or some other bs excuse to explain even if you do have video proof.

It reminds me of when I was on a crusade versus Havoc and what they were doing to servers. Oh I got attacked by their sycophants a lot.... I got called for video proof constantly. Fact was they were intentionally lagging out the servers.... They were even running hacked clients. They didn't pass the smell test.

Now... I get attacked by the sycophants a lot, they demand video proof... they attack me for not giving them a character name to harass in game. They don't pass the smell test though.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

So people are getting un-banned now? What does it actually take to get permanently banned in this game? You can get banned from the forums pretty easy if you say the wrong things to the wrong people, but what terrible thing do you actually have to do to get banned for good in game?

That reminds me of what is happening currently at the US Environmental Protection Agency. EPA employees were caught stealing government property, selling it to pawn shops, and all they got was a reprimand and paid leave.

A good friend of mine (who was banned from these forums for vocally disagreeing with the community advocates), likes to compare ZOS to the US government. I'm starting to buy his comparisons now.

• No one knows how anything works.
• The official explanations don't really make any sense. (Think 1990's era Fed Speak)
• No one actually get fired, just temporary leave.
• Nothing ever gets accomplished on schedule.
• The people in charge have a low approval rating but think they are doing amazing.

I play this game to get away from paying attention to US politics but this game's politics are getting just as ridiculous.

Arthg

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Yah obviously the entire reason why they keep clamoring for video proof is they know most people don't record everything.

This whole business of video evidence - bovine faeces.
Funny how cheaters and ZOS ask for the same lame thing.

ZOS base their entire anti-cheat "policy" on us spoon-feeding them with handy footages of cheaters caught red-handed doing... what exactly?
vMSA? Cranking up their weapon damage to 5k with 3k stam regen, 98% critical and 35K resistances?

Cheaters, the real ones, those who wanna go on doing things on the sly, we can't catch them with video evidence.

So, yeah.

Solid_Metal

see.....if this true then what i state before about ZoS is true...they doesnt have the BALLS to do it

g0ddamn, i lost hope of this game

Roechacca

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

I don't usually talk but I feel it necessary today. There's a lot of evidence against some of these players out there on top of a several witnesses. Yet, I keep hearing people say "Do you have a link to a video that proofs it?" Do we really need video proof for ZOS to take action? Does non of this compiled evidence and eye witness accounts mean nothing here? So here is a little of my thoughts, just a little. Curious if I'm the only one that thinks this video proof thing is a sham to divert the issue.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FRXq2RR1rFA

Other than the constant assault to those with nasal allergies, not a bad rant

You know how I feel about cheaters I think, evidence + jury of your peers is to me the most safe and fair way

Yah obviously the entire reason why they keep clamoring for video proof is they know most people don't record everything. Even if so, they will have a "animation cancelling" or some other bs excuse to explain even if you do have video proof.

It reminds me of when I was on a crusade versus Havoc and what they were doing to servers. Oh I got attacked by their sycophants a lot.... I got called for video proof constantly. Fact was they were intentionally lagging out the servers.... They were even running hacked clients. They didn't pass the smell test.

Now... I get attacked by the sycophants a lot, they demand video proof... they attack me for not giving them a character name to harass in game. They don't pass the smell test though.

Those meddling kids are nothing but trouble. The lag was real. Everyone felt it the moment they arrived. Low and behold, a year and a half later, people start freely admitting using third party software. Software known to throw bogus information at the servers. Only a completely daff person would think it has no effect on the servers.

Dubhliam

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Whoever is managing this game needs to start talking about this live. Not buried in a reguarly scheduled eso live. I'm talking about announcing a time and location for the twitch feed in a forum wide banner. Then I want to see a legitimate head of the company make a statement in a freaking suit and tie about what is being done, why people were unbanned, and how you are going to rebuild our trust in you and the integrity of the game.

I don't want to see tigerpants and tee-shirts telling me everything is being taken care of, I want to see a suit and tie manager. Tigerpants and tee-shirts are fine for eso live but this is serious business and needs to be addressed in an official capacity.

In this business the guy in a tie and jacket doesn't know jack and would only be giving us the business. The one in tiger stripped pants and a T-shirt is the only one who understands how code works.

Code has nothing to do with PR.
And this has nothing to do with coding (yet, we understand it is hard work to prevent cheating) and it has everything to do with horrible decision making and PR.

They have no idea what they are getting themselves into, and I'm really sorry to see this game go.

Pomaikai

Yep. We need top level management addressing this issue. No more cut and paste template responses from the help.

Junipus

Turelus wrote: »

TBH if you want this fixed, start hitting up gaming and MMO media news sites which have the guts to post critics and send them this for an article.

This isn't something I've wanted to actually see done because it's going to damage the reputation of ESO more than it already has been in the past.

However generally when the media start running stories and the stink is leaving the safety confines of internal forums the suits start to get scared.

I've been tempted to reach out to some sites which have run critic of previous MMO issues but don't want to cause more harm than good. At this point however I don't know any other way to actually make someone important at ZOS realise this is BS and against everything people expect with an MMO.

Someone important like @ZOS_MattFiror should have spoken about this long ago, not continued to use the community team as a proxy.

Once I'm home and off the bus I'm going to get a link spam list of every other MMO handling issues like this and ask ZOS WTF is stopping them doing the same.

Just go and do it. Everyone should. It might kill the game but better to kill it now than let it die a slow death.

Pomaikai

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Before anyone continues to say this is a witchunt



From the following Youtube Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbEtN24VS4E

Here in the comments we have one of the "so called banned" claiming himself and many of his co-conspirators were banned and their accounts were under investigation. Jago and Germ are all buddies, so its 100% confirmed he was banned.....

This information needs to be seen by everyone, you have a right to know

He admits to an estimated 40% of the ESO players cheating via Cheat Engine.

ADMITS TO IT!

This is the stuff that needs to be sent to the gaming press.

yodased

Lol a random cheater spouting % on a youtube video news does not make.

We don't even know the population of the game so htf can we know a % of it. Cheaters surround themselves with like people, so of course 4/10 people a cheater knows cheats lol.

Nifty2g

Pomaikai wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Before anyone continues to say this is a witchunt



From the following Youtube Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbEtN24VS4E

Here in the comments we have one of the "so called banned" claiming himself and many of his co-conspirators were banned and their accounts were under investigation. Jago and Germ are all buddies, so its 100% confirmed he was banned.....

This information needs to be seen by everyone, you have a right to know

He admits to an estimated 40% of the ESO players cheating via Cheat Engine.

ADMITS TO IT!

This is the stuff that needs to be sent to the gaming press.

Well actually, his account on ESO forums was banned just after he was banned on ESO....

Tavore1138

Problem is:

- No bans.
- No fix.
- No comms.
- No promised leader board resets.
- No-one even looking at cheat videos supplied to ZOS support

Result:

- Happy cheaters.
- Sad players.
- No trust for ZOS or what it's senior people tell us.

Will this ever be dealt with in any other way than warning people who complain about and report cheats?

rfennell_ESO

Roechacca wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

I don't usually talk but I feel it necessary today. There's a lot of evidence against some of these players out there on top of a several witnesses. Yet, I keep hearing people say "Do you have a link to a video that proofs it?" Do we really need video proof for ZOS to take action? Does non of this compiled evidence and eye witness accounts mean nothing here? So here is a little of my thoughts, just a little. Curious if I'm the only one that thinks this video proof thing is a sham to divert the issue.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FRXq2RR1rFA

Other than the constant assault to those with nasal allergies, not a bad rant

You know how I feel about cheaters I think, evidence + jury of your peers is to me the most safe and fair way

Yah obviously the entire reason why they keep clamoring for video proof is they know most people don't record everything. Even if so, they will have a "animation cancelling" or some other bs excuse to explain even if you do have video proof.

It reminds me of when I was on a crusade versus Havoc and what they were doing to servers. Oh I got attacked by their sycophants a lot.... I got called for video proof constantly. Fact was they were intentionally lagging out the servers.... They were even running hacked clients. They didn't pass the smell test.

Now... I get attacked by the sycophants a lot, they demand video proof... they attack me for not giving them a character name to harass in game. They don't pass the smell test though.

Those meddling kids are nothing but trouble. The lag was real. Everyone felt it the moment they arrived. Low and behold, a year and a half later, people start freely admitting using third party software. Software known to throw bogus information at the servers. Only a completely daff person would think it has no effect on the servers.

Any one with time can look back at my comments and see people attacking me for calling Havoc out.

I did more than that though...

I've gone after every instance of cheese and cheating and I usually get attacked by the people doing it or their sycophants.

Minno

Pomaikai wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Before anyone continues to say this is a witchunt



From the following Youtube Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbEtN24VS4E

Here in the comments we have one of the "so called banned" claiming himself and many of his co-conspirators were banned and their accounts were under investigation. Jago and Germ are all buddies, so its 100% confirmed he was banned.....

This information needs to be seen by everyone, you have a right to know

He admits to an estimated 40% of the ESO players cheating via Cheat Engine.

ADMITS TO IT!

This is the stuff that needs to be sent to the gaming press.

40% of 7 million is 2,800,000 players .