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[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?
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Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...2 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Brian Wheeler , in multiple discussions in the past , has stated that bypassing the walls was not intended by the Devs . They've had to change things several times to attempt to fix this . Moving NPCs , changing DK abilities like the chain and dragon leap . All in an attempt to stop unintended exploitation .
It's like adding metal detectors to public airports , drug sniffing dogs at the luggage . Just because new measures don't always stop the criminals , doesn't mean the rules went out the window and everyone should start a crime spree to show law enforcement they're methods aren't working ...
Am I getting through at all ?
No Not at all. Players that hack and change the code of the game for personal gain is more comprable to your analogy. The players that take advantage of a broken mechanic because zos did not fully cover their tracks is more like a loop hole. Actually loophole is perfect!! A loophole is an exception that allows a system to be circumvented or avoided, failures of a system to account for all conditions, variables, or exceptions. It is zos responsibility to make sure the game is operating correctly and fix it if not. Kinda like animation cancelling, not an intended mechanic yet certain players took advantage of this and it's now accepted as part of the game. A happy little accident if you will
1 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.Edited by cpuScientist on June 5, 2016 7:57PM7 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
I'm not disputing ZOS's responsibility to police their own game by reminding players that breaking the rules is against the TOS .0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
I'm not disputing ZOS's responsibility to police their own game by reminding players that breaking the rules is against the TOS .
Again what rules are players breaking when using basic game mechanics such as targeting, and executing abilities??0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
I'm not disputing ZOS's responsibility to police their own game by reminding players that breaking the rules is against the TOS .
Again what rules are players breaking when using basic game mechanics such as targeting, and executing abilities??
Loaded question with pure conjecture . Over ruled councilor .3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Both are at fault, and it is a huge shame, I love this game and love the people in it. I have put so much time into this game because of the people I have met, everyone even the community here is great.cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
But allowing someone to gain an unfair advantage brings the worst out in people, and ZOS enable it, both parties are enabling themselves to chew up the community we have and break it down. And I personally think that is the bigger issue, and it's now on ZOS to put the power in their hands and control the community.
You keep saying the community has been doing it's part, but the community is also the ones destroying the game and the community they have built.
It's not ZOS's fault there will always be cheating on a game, code is never perfect but they need a lot better tools to find out who exactly is cheating. And people can still cheat but they have to go through a lot of effort to cheat now with the 3rd party tool that the numbers of who is cheating will probably drop significantly to the point I believe only 0.01% of the player base will be using it. The others will have no idea and get themselves banned.
It's disappointing there is still a way to do it undetected but at least they put in quick adjustments to deal with it so fast.#MOREORBS3 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
I'm not disputing ZOS's responsibility to police their own game by reminding players that breaking the rules is against the TOS .
Again what rules are players breaking when using basic game mechanics such as targeting, and executing abilities??
Loaded question with pure conjecture . Over ruled councilor .
Not really but ok. You believe this warrants disciplinary action I simply disagree. If zos punishes players for this then they should have punished people for animation cancelling, or the camo hunter bug, or the shuffle stacking issue. It just doesn't make sense to punish players for zos mistake.1 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Oh also in fungal grotto for the vet gold key u can completely avoid mods of enemy and still complete the dungeon and get the gold key! I guess this should also be punishable, at least by your logic ali.0
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Refuse2GrowUp✭✭✭✭✭Another thread was closed by ZOS and redirected to this one, so I am going to address it here.
@ИВАН_ВОДКA in reference to your post...
"again and again i read how newbish people blame some1 for exploiting poor code of ZOS, allowing them to jump onto keeps, or boosting AP, or banker exploit, or infinite heavy sack spawns, or other things based on pure bugs, presented in the game SINCE LAUNCH
ENOUGH this ***! you need to realize the only one who need judge here is ZOS, and their code, with many bugs, grows with every DLC!
and luck of attention of bugreports
thats all"
Yes, there are some bugs and exploits as a result of faulty coding, but that does not, in any way, relieve anyone of their individual morals or ethics. If you know something is not supposed to be happening, and it gives an unfair advantage, it is cheating. And you simply cannot defend cheating just because someone else made it easier to do so.
Now, of course, we all have different moral and ethical codes, and most will define cheating differently, just as I am sure most would fail to agree upon which exploits are acceptable and which ones are egregious. None-the-less, just because ZOS messed up, it does not make it ok for players to do the same. I am sure your Mother taught you 'two wrongs do not make a right'. If she did not, then I certainly cannot fault your attempt to misdirect blame for each individuals responsibility for their own actions.Edited by Refuse2GrowUp on June 9, 2016 12:40AMPS4 NA Server
CP160 DK Firemage
CP160 StamSorc
CP160 Templar Healer
CP160 Stam NB
CP160 Magica Sorc
Cp160 Stamplar
CP160 Magicka NB
CP160 DK Tank
CP160 Stam DK
CP160 Mag Templar
CP160 Blazing Shield Templar
EP Loyalist2 -
Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »To reiterate:ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.
In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.
We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.
To reiterate:
Where is the info that was coming "tomorrow"?
They copy and pasted what they wrote the day before.
They said nothing. They have done virtually nothing. They can't actually do much of anything. They still have yet to address the issue of leaderboards which were invalidated by the cheating.
They have done NOTHING for people to gush over and thank them for. The cheating continues, albeit in a much less obvious way.
All that ZOS has done is reinforce the idea that exploiting and cheating are the way to succeed in this game, and unless you're incredibly blatant about it, you'll almost assuredly never get caught, and if you do the punishment will be so mild as to not matter.3 -
Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
I'm not disputing ZOS's responsibility to police their own game by reminding players that breaking the rules is against the TOS .
Again what rules are players breaking when using basic game mechanics such as targeting, and executing abilities??
Loaded question with pure conjecture . Over ruled councilor .
Not really but ok. You believe this warrants disciplinary action I simply disagree. If zos punishes players for this then they should have punished people for animation cancelling, or the camo hunter bug, or the shuffle stacking issue. It just doesn't make sense to punish players for zos mistake.
Wrong. Taking advantage of broken game mechanics is absolutely covered in the TOS and is against the rules. Violating the TOS should be a banable offense. If you find a broken and exploitable game mechanic, then the correct thing to do is report it, explain in detail how to replicate it, and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN! If you do, then down comes the ban hammer. Period. No temp bans. No do overs. Just a GTFO and don't let the door hit you on your way out.4 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Another thread was closed by ZOS and redirected to this one, so I am going to address it here.
Unfortunately, I cannot tag you as I cannot put in Russian characters, but, in reference to your post...
"again and again i read how newbish people blame some1 for exploiting poor code of ZOS, allowing them to jump onto keeps, or boosting AP, or banker exploit, or infinite heavy sack spawns, or other things based on pure bugs, presented in the game SINCE LAUNCH
ENOUGH this ***! you need to realize the only one who need judge here is ZOS, and their code, with many bugs, grows with every DLC!
and luck of attention of bugreports
thats all"
Yes, there are some bugs and exploits as a result of faulty coding, but that does not, in any way, relieve anyone of their individual morals or ethics. If you know something is not supposed to be happening, and it gives an unfair advantage, it is cheating. And you simply cannot defend cheating just because someone else made it easier to do so.
Now, of course, we all have different moral and ethical codes, and most will define cheating differently, just as I am sure most would fail to agree upon which exploits are acceptable and which ones are egregious. None-the-less, just because ZOS messed up, it does not make it ok for players to do the same. I am sure your Mother taught you 'two wrongs do not make a right'. If she did not, then I certainly cannot fault your attempt to misdirect blame for each individuals responsibility for their own actions.
Is it really an unfair advantage when anyone can do it? Equal opportunity people. animation cancelling is a perfect example of game mechanics being used in a way that was unintended. Some argue that this gives and unfair advantage to certain players and not to others because they lack the skill to animation cancel. player that do not visit the forums and dont follow any eso news might not know this is against the rules. They shouldn't be punished, so if zos wants to punish players for doing things like this then they should at the very least notify the individual and inform them of wrong doing before they start handing out banns1 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
I'm not disputing ZOS's responsibility to police their own game by reminding players that breaking the rules is against the TOS .
Again what rules are players breaking when using basic game mechanics such as targeting, and executing abilities??
Loaded question with pure conjecture . Over ruled councilor .
Not really but ok. You believe this warrants disciplinary action I simply disagree. If zos punishes players for this then they should have punished people for animation cancelling, or the camo hunter bug, or the shuffle stacking issue. It just doesn't make sense to punish players for zos mistake.
Wrong. Taking advantage of broken game mechanics is absolutely covered in the TOS and is against the rules. Violating the TOS should be a banable offense. If you find a broken and exploitable game mechanic, then the correct thing to do is report it, explain in detail how to replicate it, and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN! If you do, then down comes the ban hammer. Period. No temp bans. No do overs. Just a GTFO
Glad zos doesn't ban people for these types of actions. Only intentionally breaking the coding of the game should be a banable offense. In regards to so called "cheating"0 -
Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Another thread was closed by ZOS and redirected to this one, so I am going to address it here.
Unfortunately, I cannot tag you as I cannot put in Russian characters, but, in reference to your post...
"again and again i read how newbish people blame some1 for exploiting poor code of ZOS, allowing them to jump onto keeps, or boosting AP, or banker exploit, or infinite heavy sack spawns, or other things based on pure bugs, presented in the game SINCE LAUNCH
ENOUGH this ***! you need to realize the only one who need judge here is ZOS, and their code, with many bugs, grows with every DLC!
and luck of attention of bugreports
thats all"
Yes, there are some bugs and exploits as a result of faulty coding, but that does not, in any way, relieve anyone of their individual morals or ethics. If you know something is not supposed to be happening, and it gives an unfair advantage, it is cheating. And you simply cannot defend cheating just because someone else made it easier to do so.
Now, of course, we all have different moral and ethical codes, and most will define cheating differently, just as I am sure most would fail to agree upon which exploits are acceptable and which ones are egregious. None-the-less, just because ZOS messed up, it does not make it ok for players to do the same. I am sure your Mother taught you 'two wrongs do not make a right'. If she did not, then I certainly cannot fault your attempt to misdirect blame for each individuals responsibility for their own actions.
Is it really an unfair advantage when anyone can do it? Equal opportunity people. animation cancelling is a perfect example of game mechanics being used in a way that was unintended. Some argue that this gives and unfair advantage to certain players and not to others because they lack the skill to animation cancel. player that do not visit the forums and dont follow any eso news might not know this is against the rules. They shouldn't be punished, so if zos wants to punish players for doing things like this then they should at the very least notify the individual and inform them of wrong doing before they start handing out banns
So, which exploits are you using?2 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Another thread was closed by ZOS and redirected to this one, so I am going to address it here.
Unfortunately, I cannot tag you as I cannot put in Russian characters, but, in reference to your post...
"again and again i read how newbish people blame some1 for exploiting poor code of ZOS, allowing them to jump onto keeps, or boosting AP, or banker exploit, or infinite heavy sack spawns, or other things based on pure bugs, presented in the game SINCE LAUNCH
ENOUGH this ***! you need to realize the only one who need judge here is ZOS, and their code, with many bugs, grows with every DLC!
and luck of attention of bugreports
thats all"
Yes, there are some bugs and exploits as a result of faulty coding, but that does not, in any way, relieve anyone of their individual morals or ethics. If you know something is not supposed to be happening, and it gives an unfair advantage, it is cheating. And you simply cannot defend cheating just because someone else made it easier to do so.
Now, of course, we all have different moral and ethical codes, and most will define cheating differently, just as I am sure most would fail to agree upon which exploits are acceptable and which ones are egregious. None-the-less, just because ZOS messed up, it does not make it ok for players to do the same. I am sure your Mother taught you 'two wrongs do not make a right'. If she did not, then I certainly cannot fault your attempt to misdirect blame for each individuals responsibility for their own actions.
Is it really an unfair advantage when anyone can do it? Equal opportunity people. animation cancelling is a perfect example of game mechanics being used in a way that was unintended. Some argue that this gives and unfair advantage to certain players and not to others because they lack the skill to animation cancel. player that do not visit the forums and dont follow any eso news might not know this is against the rules. They shouldn't be punished, so if zos wants to punish players for doing things like this then they should at the very least notify the individual and inform them of wrong doing before they start handing out banns
You're being deliberately dense. Taking advantage of animation canceling to get a twitch advantage in combat isn't anywhere close to, say, abusing an exploit that gets you free infinite gold.
That's like equating jaywalking with armed robbery.
2 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Both are at fault, and it is a huge shame, I love this game and love the people in it. I have put so much time into this game because of the people I have met, everyone even the community here is great.cpuScientist wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@Roehamad_Ali Might end up Dragon Leap would turn into Dragon Dash with wings and all but you don't jump fulfilling the same purpose though.
That isn't what the thread is about though. The topic right now is the gap in security in ESO if they are too patch it up however the performance of the overall server may suffer. Instead of trying to put another cheat prevention system over the current system, rework the one we have so that layer of security covers all angles.
The post I responded too , that you walked into , was about that player saying blame ZOS not the player . I responded to that and on topic . The topic is How are we as a community dealing with exploiting . One community member is keeping the focus on ZOS , and I understand why . However . Holding the players feet to the fire with the rules is still important and very much a community problem still ...
True except the community has no power to take action on cheaters except too report other players, and inform ZOS in possible issues.
The COMMUNITY has been doing its part in reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of this since beta OVER 2 YEARS AGO. At this point it is ZOS's fault. And THEY have to take action, cannot hide behind the community that has no power to stop it. As it is ZOS's fault that people can even cheat in the first place.
No leaderboard can be trusted, no emperor can be trusted, no dueler cam be trusted. Some have even been coming out and saying they have been cheating on leaderboards for years. So sorry ZOS has to get with it.
And players are deserving of permanent bans for cheating.
But allowing someone to gain an unfair advantage brings the worst out in people, and ZOS enable it, both parties are enabling themselves to chew up the community we have and break it down. And I personally think that is the bigger issue, and it's now on ZOS to put the power in their hands and control the community.
You keep saying the community has been doing it's part, but the community is also the ones destroying the game and the community they have built.
It's not ZOS's fault there will always be cheating on a game, code is never perfect but they need a lot better tools to find out who exactly is cheating. And people can still cheat but they have to go through a lot of effort to cheat now with the 3rd party tool that the numbers of who is cheating will probably drop significantly to the point I believe only 0.01% of the player base will be using it. The others will have no idea and get themselves banned.
It's disappointing there is still a way to do it undetected but at least they put in quick adjustments to deal with it so fast.
Hey I get what you are saying, but in every gaming community there will be bad apples. The community as a whole that does not cheat and just plays the game, they are reporting cheaters and warning ZOS of potential threats. So how is the community at fault.
The cheaters within the community of course carry blame, they are the ones doing it after all. However there is no power in this community as we cannot take action against players outside of reporting. So blaming the community is silly, we don't promote cheating we try to deter it, the community is the good guy and the victim this whole dilemma, and should be praised for keeping threads like this active and reporting players, but in no way does.it fall on us to prevent it, that is ZOS's job.
The players who cheat need to be banned, and apparently they are getting banned. But ZOS obviously needs to do more and be more active within the community, not to tell us EXACTLY WHAT they are doing but to show that it is working, and to remind us that they know and care about it. Then they need to actually get to the lab and code lol. Just rejiggering a little check here and there is not going to do the job.
No leaderboard is real no emperor is true, it's all been a cheat....1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here is a breakdown of recent ESO cheating:-
- cheats and exploits are in the game since launch, when an exploit gets reported, it takes up to 3 months for ZOS to fix it
- most recent exploit (banker surveys) got a lot of attention and was the first one to invoke a mass ban
- the really mild punishment along with those exploiters getting to keep their ill-gotten goods enforces this exploiting/cheating kind of mindset in players
- since players feel they can get away with anything, they start cheating more blatantly
- some players that were cheating "under the radar" for years realize this won't get unnoticed, so they decide that they could have some fun, or at least get remembered as martyrs by stepping on the "blatant wagon"
- forums get flooded with a torchlight mob and "WTF ZOS, fix this" threads
- ZOS bans blatant cheaters, without those, this issue would still be under the carpet
- forum gets flooded with Huzzah comments, threads die
- no official statement from ZOS, no notice, not even a "here is the report we promised you"
- "under the radar" cheating is still alive and well in Tamriel
I apologize if there are players that went and used hacks for the first time just to get ZOS' attention, but you guys must be either really fed up with ESO, and would quit anyway, or just hoped ZOS would continue with their mild punishment policy and did not expect a permaban.
I would be grateful for your "valiant sacrifice" if it meant anything, but looking at things, not much has changed.Edited by Dubhliam on June 6, 2016 12:04PM11 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Another thread was closed by ZOS and redirected to this one, so I am going to address it here.
Unfortunately, I cannot tag you as I cannot put in Russian characters, but, in reference to your post...ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »"again and again i read how newbish people blame some1 for exploiting poor code of ZOS, allowing them to jump onto keeps, or boosting AP, or banker exploit, or infinite heavy sack spawns, or other things based on pure bugs, presented in the game SINCE LAUNCH
ENOUGH this ***! you need to realize the only one who need judge here is ZOS, and their code, with many bugs, grows with every DLC!
and luck of attention of bugreports
thats all"Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Yes, there are some bugs and exploits as a result of faulty coding, but that does not, in any way, relieve anyone of their individual morals or ethics. If you know something is not supposed to be happening, and it gives an unfair advantage, it is cheating. And you simply cannot defend cheating just because someone else made it easier to do so.
Now, of course, we all have different moral and ethical codes, and most will define cheating differently, just as I am sure most would fail to agree upon which exploits are acceptable and which ones are egregious. None-the-less, just because ZOS messed up, it does not make it ok for players to do the same. I am sure your Mother taught you 'two wrongs do not make a right'. If she did not, then I certainly cannot fault your attempt to misdirect blame for each individuals responsibility for their own actions.
Maybe IVAN_VODKA works? Or just copy pasta like this ИВАН_ВОДКА.Edited by Idinuse on June 6, 2016 12:19PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Any update on the CE fix ? Any official comment on recent threads locked about players banned returning ? Rumors are bad for business and no one wants that .6 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS is doing nothing....their probably doing nothing right now, and will continue to do nothing in the future. and nothing after the game is dead. It will probably be heralded as the best fix for nothing yet. And may even win them best nothing of 2016.
Edited by Cuyler on June 7, 2016 4:42PMGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Any update on the CE fix ? Any official comment on recent threads locked about players banned returning ? Rumors are bad for business and no one wants that .
Be nice to know, is ZOS' policy really that because they twitch stream and post youtube videos we will allow them to keep cheating?3 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭arth-grogalith wrote: »
This is most excellent news.
However:
1) your policy of being spoon-fed video evidence by players doesn't cut the mustard, I'm afraid. It would be naïve to think that invisible cheating is not going on. More reliable and more frequent "automatic cheat detection adjustments" MUST be carried out. Why did so many players slip through the net? Why does it take (twisted and suicidal) whistle-blowers for such easy cheats to be found out and dealt with?
2) I believe *all* players, i.e. not only forum fanatics or people in guilds, should be informed of your tough stance and of the recent punishments. I think an official announcement in the launcher would be in order.
Evidently the folks at ZOS don't play their own game.
If they did, you can be certain that someone would have noticed and investigated.
Playtime should be mandatory. Part of work, done during the work day.. not free time.
It's awesome that the cheaters are being permabanned though. Absolutely fantastic.
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This discussion has been closed.