[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Ryuuhime

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

I have to say, this makes me really happy and surprised! I'm very glad to see ZOS doing what should be done and permanently ban players. I definitely did not expect this.

Lava_Croft

Just adjust the values you change with Cheat Engine to less ridiculous numbers and you can continue hacking all you want.

Alcast

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

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Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait...ESO had an anti-cheat system? Wut.

It's called the forums.

Tandor

Nifty2g wrote: »

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Chori wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

You went on and on about how legit your scores are and then outright admitted to cheating and how the lot of you colluded together. You guys are like all the cyclists using PEDs. You embrace the cheating because "everyone is doing it." Well, sorry, Lance Armstrong, it's still not okay.

Link me somewhere I said they were legit, pretty sure in the massive thread we had we said it had to resort to that.
Stop bringing this up lol, I gave an explanation about it. If there are 5+ teams all going for #1 and an exploit like so which mind you was so damn easy to do goes public then doesn't get fixed until AFTER the leaderboard reset, then yes all the teams to be on equal playing field agreed to do it so no one could be a whining loser and call out other teams with stupid accusations. I don't think it's right and I blame ZOS for not fixing it ASAP but leaving it in the game for months, what do you expect?

You can have your opinion and I think it's wrong, I'm not embracing it but in this instance it is necessary to do so. No one is flat out saying it's cheating and shameful in the conditions that were forced.

Put it this way, I'd rather everyone be cheating and on equal grounds with all the other teams (there were about 5 at the time, and I was in contact with them all), and they all agreed. We would rather all be using the same exploit rather than someone disrespecting our efforts put in and beating us while we weren't doing it.

Btw your analogy doesn't exactly apply during this whole thing, I agree it's cheating I'm not defending it, don't know what makes you think I am I've never said anything about that other than we all agreed we had to do it. And lastly, I really do blame ZOS for this but on the other hand it also avoided comments like "you only got that cause you exploited double mundus" when we hadn't. So either way, I don't think it devalues the score at all we were all on equal playing fields and I don't think you should spurt out your opinion and make attacks on peoples hard work when I've already explained the situation.

No offense Nifty but your image as a clean player on this thread just went to the drain with that whole statement and your previous ones. No one cares if you agreed upon having an exploit on your team or others team's setup, people cares if you guys allowed it and didn't condemn it the way you should have and people cares if you were not the better player standind up for what you believe lol.

How about you guys decided to be responsible enough to either not compete or agree upon not allowing any exploit on a team's setup huh? Would have been smarter, more honorable, and you wouldnt even have to be discussing what happened or bringing up this controversial subject on this whole thread.

How about the exploit getting fixed ASAP and not being left in the damn game for months? And still in the game for another 6 months after the fix was out.
Im a clean playing when it comes to playing on equal grounds as the competition, people often tend to do dirty things for #1 as much as they can.
You can say what you want to and call us all cheaters and exploiters I mean we are and it had to be done because the issue was ignored. This wasnt 3rd party software all you had to do was put on twice born star, die and remove it. You kept your second mundus stone.

Anyway, stop bring the conversation up, we have all admitted it a year ago, no one really cares about it, and I dont know why you are showing offense to the subject when you werent apart of the 5 groups, and honestly if you werent apart of the 5 groups I dont really think it matters of your opinion as long as all of the people involved agreed it was necessary, then it was

Hey all the gang agreed it was necessary for us to rob the bank, so it was!

The argument "we had to cheat because everyone else was doing so and nobody was doing anything about it" is pretty much the weakest argument you could come up with. I'd quit while you're behind if I were you.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just adjust the values you change with Cheat Engine to less ridiculous numbers and you can continue hacking all you want.

I hope you get banned just for saying that

BenLocoDete

TirvelBalen wrote: »

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Runs wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This kind of intentional exploitation and cheating is disgusting. This is the same behavior that ruined diablo on console platforms, such a shame to see players going out of their way to ruin a game.

Well to be fair their not trying to ruin the game well not all of them some are just trying to get @ZOS to fox their dam game.Can you blame them for that?

Yes.

Anyone saying "I cheat only so they will fix it" is full of ***. I can and will blame cheaters for cheating. You want to do it to show the problem then you go on PTS and make videos to send in to the staff showing how the issues are done. You don't go onto the live server and reap the rewards from cheating.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Just my 2 cents here, but there are countless posts and entire threads complaining about several bugs/exploits found in the PTS *AND* vocally reported (actually since the beta) just to see ZOS not only ignore but send them live without addressing the issue.

Really don't want to play the devil's advocate here because cheaters don't seem to do this to "report" issues but to scramble the game, but in any case, ZOS lacking of a real commitment to exploits seems just how the MMO game seems to be - I was playing another MMO some time ago and there was a huge influx of players back because of a dup bug. People that haven't logged in almost a full year came back to take part in the dup-fest. Despite the wrong nature of the exploit, it actually helped that company to get players back. I don't think that is fair and don't want to see this behavior become natural but sometimes the way the companies respond in regard of groundbreaking bugs is to keep calm and enjoy the show - meanwhile, they not only fix the train but also keep it on track.

nagarjunna

Nice to see decisive action being taken, however I'd really like to see some more affirmative action from the ZOS top brass. A statement from them would be very welcome and go a long way to calm things down both here and to the public at large.

One side point - I wonder how much this cheating drove the development of the game in strange directions and whether a course correction will have to be applied? I'm looking specifically at DB and what has happened to the classes and the adjustment that is to take place but obviously there is past history as well.

zerosingularity

Back to the topic at hand people, no more complaining about that double mundus 5 guild thing, bring it to PMs.

I suspect the total number of perma-bans to increase as more people get filtered out. The number will wildly increase if the last year or two of logs are reviewed for malicious behavior and if the new anti-cheat parameters actually are effective. I am hoping for good news.

In all honesty, hearing about hackers being perma-banned improves a game's image. Hackers will always happen, advertised or not, but showing they are being banned makes people think "They really care about this game, and it is being actively monitored for cheating, I can play in a nice environment" or something along those lines. This is especially so in games with a competitive aspect to them (leaderboards/PvP). I look forward to more info on this!

arena25

I just looked at the message from Zazeer, and let me just say while he may have had his account banned, he should be known as a whistleblower. Sure, it wasn't a smart idea to do the hacks just so you can expose this and expose yourself to permabans, however, his methods, as evidenced, have proven completely effective.

If Zazeer is reading this thread right now, let me tell you up front: Your sacrifice will not be in vain. While I don't approve of your methods, you will make the community a better place.

kevlarto_ESO

Thank you for the update and good to see ZOS is taking a hard line stance on cheaters, I am sure the banned list will grow, thanks again for trying to keep the game on the up and up for those of us that enjoy the game.

SirDopey

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

Thank you. Just, thank you....

ikza

43 bans a populist speech and ppl say "great job".

Like Tiber Septim say: “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.”

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Anyway we could get a breakdown of players banned by faction

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Enough is enough. BAN THE CHEATERS!!! We know who they are. Also, their names need to be removed from the leaderboards immediately.

Hint: If their name is above Jace's for either Sorc or a NB on VMA, they are probably cheating.

outsideworld76

Xylphan wrote: »

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Minalan wrote: »

I was in the games industry for a number of years, so I'm pretty familiar with how the story goes. Yes, sometimes the developers are to blame but more often than not it comes down to some idiot higher up on the corporate food chain screaming "DO IT! SHIP IT!".

That's probably the way things go.

Chori

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Anyway we could get a breakdown of players banned by faction

Eventhough it would be hilarious to see the names, it would also create more hate between players when it's not needed... =/

Rakkul

Nifty2g wrote: »

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Chori wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

You went on and on about how legit your scores are and then outright admitted to cheating and how the lot of you colluded together. You guys are like all the cyclists using PEDs. You embrace the cheating because "everyone is doing it." Well, sorry, Lance Armstrong, it's still not okay.

Link me somewhere I said they were legit, pretty sure in the massive thread we had we said it had to resort to that.
Stop bringing this up lol, I gave an explanation about it. If there are 5+ teams all going for #1 and an exploit like so which mind you was so damn easy to do goes public then doesn't get fixed until AFTER the leaderboard reset, then yes all the teams to be on equal playing field agreed to do it so no one could be a whining loser and call out other teams with stupid accusations. I don't think it's right and I blame ZOS for not fixing it ASAP but leaving it in the game for months, what do you expect?

You can have your opinion and I think it's wrong, I'm not embracing it but in this instance it is necessary to do so. No one is flat out saying it's cheating and shameful in the conditions that were forced.

Put it this way, I'd rather everyone be cheating and on equal grounds with all the other teams (there were about 5 at the time, and I was in contact with them all), and they all agreed. We would rather all be using the same exploit rather than someone disrespecting our efforts put in and beating us while we weren't doing it.

Btw your analogy doesn't exactly apply during this whole thing, I agree it's cheating I'm not defending it, don't know what makes you think I am I've never said anything about that other than we all agreed we had to do it. And lastly, I really do blame ZOS for this but on the other hand it also avoided comments like "you only got that cause you exploited double mundus" when we hadn't. So either way, I don't think it devalues the score at all we were all on equal playing fields and I don't think you should spurt out your opinion and make attacks on peoples hard work when I've already explained the situation.

No offense Nifty but your image as a clean player on this thread just went to the drain with that whole statement and your previous ones. No one cares if you agreed upon having an exploit on your team or others team's setup, people cares if you guys allowed it and didn't condemn it the way you should have and people cares if you were not the better player standind up for what you believe lol.

How about you guys decided to be responsible enough to either not compete or agree upon not allowing any exploit on a team's setup huh? Would have been smarter, more honorable, and you wouldnt even have to be discussing what happened or bringing up this controversial subject on this whole thread.

How about the exploit getting fixed ASAP and not being left in the damn game for months? And still in the game for another 6 months after the fix was out.
Im a clean playing when it comes to playing on equal grounds as the competition, people often tend to do dirty things for #1 as much as they can.
You can say what you want to and call us all cheaters and exploiters I mean we are and it had to be done because the issue was ignored. This wasnt 3rd party software all you had to do was put on twice born star, die and remove it. You kept your second mundus stone.

Anyway, stop bring the conversation up, we have all admitted it a year ago, no one really cares about it, and I dont know why you are showing offense to the subject when you werent apart of the 5 groups, and honestly if you werent apart of the 5 groups I dont really think it matters of your opinion as long as all of the people involved agreed it was necessary, then it was

What do you mean it doesn't matter.....
You agreed to the T&C when you signed up for the game.
You then decided that the T&C somehow didn't apply to you.
Then deliberately hacked the game.
...and now you come along as though it's somehow ok just for your group of hackers?

I really don't think you understand the meaning of terms and conditions.

Lava_Croft

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

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Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just adjust the values you change with Cheat Engine to less ridiculous numbers and you can continue hacking all you want.

I hope you get banned just for saying that

Anyone that's not a complete idiot and feels the need to cheat will do it in such a way that it's near impossible to detect for other players or ZOS. While it looks pretty cool that ZOS permabans idiots that fly around and spam Meteors every second, this does nothing about the probably much bigger problem of people hacking in a much smarter way. The 'silent' hackers are the real problem, not the attention hungry idiots.

Tommy1979AtWar

ikza wrote: »

43 bans a populist speech and ppl say "great job".

Like Tiber Septim say: “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.”

Yup, pretty much my view on it too.

code65536

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

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ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

Actually, this was the tip of the iceberg.

According to this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

this kind of cheating is going on for a long time but in a more subtle way. and no, this is not the right place to discuss his behavior. If you want to discuss that, create a new thread and don't get this one locked.

The point is:
does this great cheat prevention (which obviously didn't work at all, yet) notice if someone has increased stats or is able to cast faster? or is it just "here you go, no more ulti spam.". I mean ulti spam (speedhack, etc) are annoying but obvious. everyone sees them, but the bigger problem is actually people abusing CE in the more subtle way and gaining an advantage.

Therefore, I'm looking forward for further details... and i fear i won't like what i will hear.

Yes. It seems like their automated system just catches specific things that they tell it to look for instead of looking for and flagging any abnormality, in which case I'm not sure how it'll do against these less egregious cheats and how robust it'll be for future incidents. I'm hoping that ZOS will go beyond whack-a-mole security.

dagonbeer

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

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ikza wrote: »

43 bans a populist speech and ppl say "great job".

Like Tiber Septim say: “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.”

Yup, pretty much my view on it too.

Well, this is the best you can ask for short term. Confirmation that they're working on the issue and that serious consequences are being dished out, so to give cheaters pause before they risk their account.

Immortal_Dark410

code65536 wrote: »

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InvitationNotFound wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

Actually, this was the tip of the iceberg.

According to this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

this kind of cheating is going on for a long time but in a more subtle way. and no, this is not the right place to discuss his behavior. If you want to discuss that, create a new thread and don't get this one locked.

The point is:
does this great cheat prevention (which obviously didn't work at all, yet) notice if someone has increased stats or is able to cast faster? or is it just "here you go, no more ulti spam.". I mean ulti spam (speedhack, etc) are annoying but obvious. everyone sees them, but the bigger problem is actually people abusing CE in the more subtle way and gaining an advantage.

Therefore, I'm looking forward for further details... and i fear i won't like what i will hear.

Yes. It seems like their automated system just catches specific things that they tell it to look for instead of looking for and flagging any abnormality, in which case I'm not sure how it'll do against these less egregious cheats and how robust it'll be for future incidents. I'm hoping that ZOS will go beyond whack-a-mole security.

I used to love the wack-a-mole Games at the local carnivals, but i get what your saying, I guess for them its a learning process and everything will be done in "Steps" for them. It's like a ladder you dont run up a ladder u go up step by step in a sense. For now at least they did something because lets be honest they had to do "Something" / "Anything" to respond to this issue.

Ajaxduo

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

I bet people who thought they'd take advantage of this and get away with it are bricking it. Good on you ZoS!

Tryxus

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating.

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen: who believes we'll reach 200 before the DB update?

arena25

Tryxus wrote: »

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ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating.

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen: who believes we'll reach 200 before the DB update?

*Lays 1 chip down*

I think there's an outside chance of that happening, but I'm not going to go all-in...too risky.

Joking aside, this is a huge first step. Now it's a matter of finishing what you started.

Immortal_Dark410

Tryxus wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating.

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen: who believes we'll reach 200 before the DB update?

Id be shocked if it did & at least happy that more of the exploiters / Cheat users are being dealt with

GrumpStump

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

Thank You


GrumpStump

DUTCH_REAPER

Woot woot!! Way to go ZOS!!

Taruha

Lovely, exactly how people like that should be dealt with! Good job guys!

Nifty2g

Rakkul wrote: »

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Nifty2g wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

You went on and on about how legit your scores are and then outright admitted to cheating and how the lot of you colluded together. You guys are like all the cyclists using PEDs. You embrace the cheating because "everyone is doing it." Well, sorry, Lance Armstrong, it's still not okay.

Link me somewhere I said they were legit, pretty sure in the massive thread we had we said it had to resort to that.
Stop bringing this up lol, I gave an explanation about it. If there are 5+ teams all going for #1 and an exploit like so which mind you was so damn easy to do goes public then doesn't get fixed until AFTER the leaderboard reset, then yes all the teams to be on equal playing field agreed to do it so no one could be a whining loser and call out other teams with stupid accusations. I don't think it's right and I blame ZOS for not fixing it ASAP but leaving it in the game for months, what do you expect?

You can have your opinion and I think it's wrong, I'm not embracing it but in this instance it is necessary to do so. No one is flat out saying it's cheating and shameful in the conditions that were forced.

Put it this way, I'd rather everyone be cheating and on equal grounds with all the other teams (there were about 5 at the time, and I was in contact with them all), and they all agreed. We would rather all be using the same exploit rather than someone disrespecting our efforts put in and beating us while we weren't doing it.

Btw your analogy doesn't exactly apply during this whole thing, I agree it's cheating I'm not defending it, don't know what makes you think I am I've never said anything about that other than we all agreed we had to do it. And lastly, I really do blame ZOS for this but on the other hand it also avoided comments like "you only got that cause you exploited double mundus" when we hadn't. So either way, I don't think it devalues the score at all we were all on equal playing fields and I don't think you should spurt out your opinion and make attacks on peoples hard work when I've already explained the situation.

No offense Nifty but your image as a clean player on this thread just went to the drain with that whole statement and your previous ones. No one cares if you agreed upon having an exploit on your team or others team's setup, people cares if you guys allowed it and didn't condemn it the way you should have and people cares if you were not the better player standind up for what you believe lol.

How about you guys decided to be responsible enough to either not compete or agree upon not allowing any exploit on a team's setup huh? Would have been smarter, more honorable, and you wouldnt even have to be discussing what happened or bringing up this controversial subject on this whole thread.

How about the exploit getting fixed ASAP and not being left in the damn game for months? And still in the game for another 6 months after the fix was out.
Im a clean playing when it comes to playing on equal grounds as the competition, people often tend to do dirty things for #1 as much as they can.
You can say what you want to and call us all cheaters and exploiters I mean we are and it had to be done because the issue was ignored. This wasnt 3rd party software all you had to do was put on twice born star, die and remove it. You kept your second mundus stone.

Anyway, stop bring the conversation up, we have all admitted it a year ago, no one really cares about it, and I dont know why you are showing offense to the subject when you werent apart of the 5 groups, and honestly if you werent apart of the 5 groups I dont really think it matters of your opinion as long as all of the people involved agreed it was necessary, then it was

What do you mean it doesn't matter.....
You agreed to the T&C when you signed up for the game.
You then decided that the T&C somehow didn't apply to you.
Then deliberately hacked the game.
...and now you come along as though it's somehow ok just for your group of hackers?

I really don't think you understand the meaning of terms and conditions.

Hack? I didn't hack. This was an exploit with TBS set a year ago.
Huge diff between hack and in game exploit