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Flurry vs Surprise Attack - Major Imbalance in Damage
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Instant✭✭✭✭✭Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.2 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »Nightblades do not need a DPS buff signed a nightblade main
Plus flurry unlike WB can leave you open because someone can just bash your face in to interrupt it and counter.
No, Flurry cannot be interrupted as a matter of fact. It functions similar to Sweeps & Jabs in that regard.Maybe just use Flurry in pve?)
SA is already so cool in pvp.
Or maybe I should just reroll a DK? I don't get powerful DoTs with my class or anything that would make me deal similar DPS. The DKs even benefit more from using Rapid Strikes, since they can use them to buff up their DoTs.NB has the same problem the sorc class has.
NB is about stealthed burst combos.
Sorc is about burst setup combos.
Both kinda good in pvp with high dmg compared to enemy HP. Both completely worthless in sustained DPS pve encounters. The class design doesn´t make sense pve wise for both of them.
Yes, sadly those burst combos don't matter when your opponent outheals them in 0,1 second with Major Mending, Rally+Vigor .
I'd like my class to be capable of more than instagib ganking. in both PvE & PvP.
Are you asking for a surprise attack buff?
Yes.
Or a strong class DoT or anything to make NBs competitive & playable outside ganking in PvP.
Killer's Blade needs a buff too for it to compare positively with Rapid Strikes. An execute that only works below 25% is currently dealing less damage than a spammable 100%->0% DPS skill that procs vMSA enchant & axe bleeds all the time.
So you don't want to boost the nb instagib gankbuilds but want a dps push for the strongest nb burststuff and propably one of the best burstabilities in game and you think nightblade is just good for ganking?
I must be on a *** of drugs to see awesome nb's rocking hard everyday... oh wait, Liberate or Sabal maybe just look like Nightblades but must be something else.
Sorry for being sarcastic but srsly man... you are aiming for a 100% oneshot Cyrodil.
No, I'm not. In fact if you read my other posts you'd know that I would very much prefer if everyone had 10x more health than they currently have.
Also, I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't see anyone "rocking hard" outside ganking some siegers - you put a NB against an equally skilled stam DK or magicka sorc and he's toast.
I don't even remember when I last lost to a NB on my magicka templar.
Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
As I said, you can hate instagib NBs all you want - I'm not too fond of them either (or instagibs from any other class).
But when it comes to sustained DPS which is all that matters in PvE and duels vs good, tankier players - stamblades have serious issues.
The NBs i play with do very well and they don't gank but boosting a burst ability so it may become a better sustain dps ability makes what?
You don't necessarily have to give it more damage, but for example something like
"after 3 seconds, deals X poison damage. Stacks up to 3 times."
Or just a regular DoT, or anything that boosts its sustained DPS - which is garbage at the moment.
Even for ganking Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst will be better than Surprise Attack next patch, but I guess I'll have to make a video about it before people can trust me.
U want sustain and superawesome rapid strikes? WELL THEN USE RAPID STRIKES.
Surprise attack is a awesome ability and will remain so if untouched.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »Nightblades do not need a DPS buff signed a nightblade main
Plus flurry unlike WB can leave you open because someone can just bash your face in to interrupt it and counter.
No, Flurry cannot be interrupted as a matter of fact. It functions similar to Sweeps & Jabs in that regard.Maybe just use Flurry in pve?)
SA is already so cool in pvp.
Or maybe I should just reroll a DK? I don't get powerful DoTs with my class or anything that would make me deal similar DPS. The DKs even benefit more from using Rapid Strikes, since they can use them to buff up their DoTs.NB has the same problem the sorc class has.
NB is about stealthed burst combos.
Sorc is about burst setup combos.
Both kinda good in pvp with high dmg compared to enemy HP. Both completely worthless in sustained DPS pve encounters. The class design doesn´t make sense pve wise for both of them.
Yes, sadly those burst combos don't matter when your opponent outheals them in 0,1 second with Major Mending, Rally+Vigor .
I'd like my class to be capable of more than instagib ganking. in both PvE & PvP.
Are you asking for a surprise attack buff?
Yes.
Or a strong class DoT or anything to make NBs competitive & playable outside ganking in PvP.
Killer's Blade needs a buff too for it to compare positively with Rapid Strikes. An execute that only works below 25% is currently dealing less damage than a spammable 100%->0% DPS skill that procs vMSA enchant & axe bleeds all the time.
So you don't want to boost the nb instagib gankbuilds but want a dps push for the strongest nb burststuff and propably one of the best burstabilities in game and you think nightblade is just good for ganking?
I must be on a *** of drugs to see awesome nb's rocking hard everyday... oh wait, Liberate or Sabal maybe just look like Nightblades but must be something else.
Sorry for being sarcastic but srsly man... you are aiming for a 100% oneshot Cyrodil.
No, I'm not. In fact if you read my other posts you'd know that I would very much prefer if everyone had 10x more health than they currently have.
Also, I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't see anyone "rocking hard" outside ganking some siegers - you put a NB against an equally skilled stam DK or magicka sorc and he's toast.
I don't even remember when I last lost to a NB on my magicka templar.
Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
As I said, you can hate instagib NBs all you want - I'm not too fond of them either (or instagibs from any other class).
But when it comes to sustained DPS which is all that matters in PvE and duels vs good, tankier players - stamblades have serious issues.
The NBs i play with do very well and they don't gank but boosting a burst ability so it may become a better sustain dps ability makes what?
You don't necessarily have to give it more damage, but for example something like
"after 3 seconds, deals X poison damage. Stacks up to 3 times."
Or just a regular DoT, or anything that boosts its sustained DPS - which is garbage at the moment.
Even for ganking Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst will be better than Surprise Attack next patch, but I guess I'll have to make a video about it before people can trust me.
U want sustain and superawesome rapid strikes? WELL THEN USE RAPID STRIKES.
Surprise attack is a awesome ability and will remain so if untouched.
And what makes it so awesome?
The only thing that used to make it awesome on Live oh so long ago is broken and doesn't work (hint: cloak).
Otherwise, you're better off using Rapid Strikes 100% of time.Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.
Ok, I added the Rapid Strikes math, it's quite tricky to calculate compared to most skills
Recording a video atm just to showcase how ridiculous the difference is.Edited by DDuke on May 12, 2016 1:21PM1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Think theyre gonna have to remove some night blade passives before they amp their skills damage. That class is kinda whack.6 -
Instant✭✭✭✭✭RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »Nightblades do not need a DPS buff signed a nightblade main
Plus flurry unlike WB can leave you open because someone can just bash your face in to interrupt it and counter.
No, Flurry cannot be interrupted as a matter of fact. It functions similar to Sweeps & Jabs in that regard.Maybe just use Flurry in pve?)
SA is already so cool in pvp.
Or maybe I should just reroll a DK? I don't get powerful DoTs with my class or anything that would make me deal similar DPS. The DKs even benefit more from using Rapid Strikes, since they can use them to buff up their DoTs.NB has the same problem the sorc class has.
NB is about stealthed burst combos.
Sorc is about burst setup combos.
Both kinda good in pvp with high dmg compared to enemy HP. Both completely worthless in sustained DPS pve encounters. The class design doesn´t make sense pve wise for both of them.
Yes, sadly those burst combos don't matter when your opponent outheals them in 0,1 second with Major Mending, Rally+Vigor .
I'd like my class to be capable of more than instagib ganking. in both PvE & PvP.
Are you asking for a surprise attack buff?
Yes.
Or a strong class DoT or anything to make NBs competitive & playable outside ganking in PvP.
Killer's Blade needs a buff too for it to compare positively with Rapid Strikes. An execute that only works below 25% is currently dealing less damage than a spammable 100%->0% DPS skill that procs vMSA enchant & axe bleeds all the time.
So you don't want to boost the nb instagib gankbuilds but want a dps push for the strongest nb burststuff and propably one of the best burstabilities in game and you think nightblade is just good for ganking?
I must be on a *** of drugs to see awesome nb's rocking hard everyday... oh wait, Liberate or Sabal maybe just look like Nightblades but must be something else.
Sorry for being sarcastic but srsly man... you are aiming for a 100% oneshot Cyrodil.
No, I'm not. In fact if you read my other posts you'd know that I would very much prefer if everyone had 10x more health than they currently have.
Also, I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't see anyone "rocking hard" outside ganking some siegers - you put a NB against an equally skilled stam DK or magicka sorc and he's toast.
I don't even remember when I last lost to a NB on my magicka templar.
Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
As I said, you can hate instagib NBs all you want - I'm not too fond of them either (or instagibs from any other class).
But when it comes to sustained DPS which is all that matters in PvE and duels vs good, tankier players - stamblades have serious issues.
The NBs i play with do very well and they don't gank but boosting a burst ability so it may become a better sustain dps ability makes what?
You don't necessarily have to give it more damage, but for example something like
"after 3 seconds, deals X poison damage. Stacks up to 3 times."
Or just a regular DoT, or anything that boosts its sustained DPS - which is garbage at the moment.
Even for ganking Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst will be better than Surprise Attack next patch, but I guess I'll have to make a video about it before people can trust me.
U want sustain and superawesome rapid strikes? WELL THEN USE RAPID STRIKES.
Surprise attack is a awesome ability and will remain so if untouched.
And what makes it so awesome?
The only thing that used to make it awesome on Live oh so long ago is broken and doesn't work (hint: cloak).
Otherwise, you're better off using Rapid Strikes 100% of time.Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.
Ok, I added the Rapid Strikes math, it's quite tricky to calculate compared to most skills
I still think your assumption concerning the cooldown on Flurry is wrong.
I can cast it around 25 times in 30 seconds.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.0 -
luxfreak✭✭✭RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »Nightblades do not need a DPS buff signed a nightblade main
Plus flurry unlike WB can leave you open because someone can just bash your face in to interrupt it and counter.
No, Flurry cannot be interrupted as a matter of fact. It functions similar to Sweeps & Jabs in that regard.Maybe just use Flurry in pve?)
SA is already so cool in pvp.
Or maybe I should just reroll a DK? I don't get powerful DoTs with my class or anything that would make me deal similar DPS. The DKs even benefit more from using Rapid Strikes, since they can use them to buff up their DoTs.NB has the same problem the sorc class has.
NB is about stealthed burst combos.
Sorc is about burst setup combos.
Both kinda good in pvp with high dmg compared to enemy HP. Both completely worthless in sustained DPS pve encounters. The class design doesn´t make sense pve wise for both of them.
Yes, sadly those burst combos don't matter when your opponent outheals them in 0,1 second with Major Mending, Rally+Vigor .
I'd like my class to be capable of more than instagib ganking. in both PvE & PvP.
Are you asking for a surprise attack buff?
Yes.
Or a strong class DoT or anything to make NBs competitive & playable outside ganking in PvP.
Killer's Blade needs a buff too for it to compare positively with Rapid Strikes. An execute that only works below 25% is currently dealing less damage than a spammable 100%->0% DPS skill that procs vMSA enchant & axe bleeds all the time.
So you don't want to boost the nb instagib gankbuilds but want a dps push for the strongest nb burststuff and propably one of the best burstabilities in game and you think nightblade is just good for ganking?
I must be on a *** of drugs to see awesome nb's rocking hard everyday... oh wait, Liberate or Sabal maybe just look like Nightblades but must be something else.
Sorry for being sarcastic but srsly man... you are aiming for a 100% oneshot Cyrodil.
No, I'm not. In fact if you read my other posts you'd know that I would very much prefer if everyone had 10x more health than they currently have.
Also, I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't see anyone "rocking hard" outside ganking some siegers - you put a NB against an equally skilled stam DK or magicka sorc and he's toast.
I don't even remember when I last lost to a NB on my magicka templar.
Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
As I said, you can hate instagib NBs all you want - I'm not too fond of them either (or instagibs from any other class).
But when it comes to sustained DPS which is all that matters in PvE and duels vs good, tankier players - stamblades have serious issues.
The NBs i play with do very well and they don't gank but boosting a burst ability so it may become a better sustain dps ability makes what?
You don't necessarily have to give it more damage, but for example something like
"after 3 seconds, deals X poison damage. Stacks up to 3 times."
Or just a regular DoT, or anything that boosts its sustained DPS - which is garbage at the moment.
Even for ganking Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst will be better than Surprise Attack next patch, but I guess I'll have to make a video about it before people can trust me.
U want sustain and superawesome rapid strikes? WELL THEN USE RAPID STRIKES.
Surprise attack is a awesome ability and will remain so if untouched.
And what makes it so awesome?
The only thing that used to make it awesome on Live oh so long ago is broken and doesn't work (hint: cloak).
Otherwise, you're better off using Rapid Strikes 100% of time.Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.
Ok, I added the Rapid Strikes math, it's quite tricky to calculate compared to most skills
I still think your assumption concerning the cooldown on Flurry is wrong.
I can cast it around 25 times in 30 seconds.
current or new one, and without anything in between, or did you calculated a weaving of good/bad light/medium/heavy attacks to it?
More data pleaseTank/DD with Hof HM clear0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have you tested this on mobs?
Toltips can be weird and I would not go off of them alone.
On my template I got some results that don't show much difference between the two skills dps-wise, but some more testing would be good.0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is such a terrible joke.
You realize flurry is not class specific so you can slot it if you do choose even on a NB.
And
For the record Nightblades need no extra buffs they are going to be so j noxious this patch it's almost obscene3 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The real issue here is that ZOS buffed stam DK even further. The buff the Flurry makes it so that every class has access to the best spam ability but only DK has those ridiculous class DoTs to go with it. Stam DKs were already pulling the highest PVE DPS before their abilities scaled from weapon CPs and now it won't even be close. ZOS put themselves in a tricky situation. I don't think buffing surprise attack is the answer because it would be overpowered in PVP. I also don't think giving every other class comparable stam dots to the DK is the answer either.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So your saying flurry is viable for pvp now? Don't mind me when i use both SA and Flurry in pvp then. PS4 NA DC2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL Buff NBs.
When templars and tanks complain their skills are weak, useless, impractical, or not as good as perceived, you tell insist they are wrong.
Now you are trying to tell everyone "NBs have absolutely nothing worth using" and you "don't see a reason to slot Surprise Attack anymore".
Why don't you take your NB blinders off examine your complaints the same way you do in tank and templar threads? NBs have nothing worth using? Because siphoning attacks is trash? Incapacitating Strike isn't a really good single target cheap ultimate (and getting a lot better)? Magicka access to major evasion & expedition isn't worth using? And the whole "cloak never works" refrain was old even back in Summer 2014 when it was a legit issue. Surprise attack doesn't require a specific weapon, puts resistance debuffs on the target, still does good damage (even if not stupid OP like Rapid Strikes), activates the Shadow Barrier passive, and stuns from stealth.
Now you want to buff the DPS of the class notorious for insta-kill stealth ganking because you think doing the former somehow won't lead to problems with the latter.
Alcast is right: the issue here is that Rapid Strikes received a noticeable buff when it is questionable it needed one and in combination with the Maelstrom daggers is probably going too good for any other stam DPS to compete, not just nightblades.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.10 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In fact, if you want to compare Killer's Blade to other things...
They have the same skillcoefficient apparently, unless the 2H execute damage scales higher as ranks go up (I only have it at rank 1)
The difference is that 2H Execute starts dealing decent damage after 50%, where as Killer's Blade requires target to be below 25%. And in the end, 2H Execute deals 35% more damage.
2H Execute: 13 849 damage
Killer's Blade: 12 402 damage
11% difference in favor of Executioner, that you can start using after 50% rather than 25%.
How is this balanced in any imaginable way?
I mean, people can hate Nightblades & their stealth burst all they want. But when it comes to things other than ganking in PvP, there are some serious issues as you can see by the numbers.
Whole that maybe true. They needed be careful. Stam NBs are super strong in pvp already. We honestly don't need them to get any stronger.1 -
Kas✭✭✭✭✭Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm@bbu - AD/EU
Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
+ many others5 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Flurry hits extremely fast and in PvE, you will never miss literally.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Look, it's common knowledge that stamina NB is the weakest class in PvE.
You deal about 50% of the damage stamina DKs & magicka builds deal, because there is nothing in the class skills that helps with it.
In PvP, I couldn't care less if they nerfed stamina NB burst dmg - as long as they fixed cloak or gave us something else to survive with. Vigor does not outheal DK DoTs where as their Major Mending+Vigor heals everything you do, so you're kind of dead when those DoTs get applied to you. If I could negate them & survive with cloak - fine - except it doesn't work.
I have no hidden agenda here. I know the strengths & weaknesses of NB and I couldn't care less if the strengths got toned down a bit (ganking), where the weaknesses got fixed/buffed.
After all, what does any of the 1vX capacity the class has matter, if you have to run from 1v1s you can't win.
That's bad balance - in both ways.Edited by DDuke on May 12, 2016 2:41PM0 -
ZOS_DaryaKadminWe've removed a couple of posts that did not contribute anything meaningful to the discussion. Please refrain from personal attacks and keep your comments constructive.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In fact, if you want to compare Killer's Blade to other things...
They have the same skillcoefficient apparently, unless the 2H execute damage scales higher as ranks go up (I only have it at rank 1)
The difference is that 2H Execute starts dealing decent damage after 50%, where as Killer's Blade requires target to be below 25%. And in the end, 2H Execute deals 35% more damage.
2H Execute: 13 849 damage
Killer's Blade: 12 402 damage
11% difference in favor of Executioner, that you can start using after 50% rather than 25%.
How is this balanced in any imaginable way?
I mean, people can hate Nightblades & their stealth burst all they want. But when it comes to things other than ganking in PvP, there are some serious issues as you can see by the numbers.
Whole that maybe true. They needed be careful. Stam NBs are super strong in pvp already. We honestly don't need them to get any stronger.
Stam NBs are only strong in very small scale fights.
And in PvE, stamina nightblades are the second weakest after stam sorcerers. But with the buffs to the latter, even that may change.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Do you feel the mob of Stamina Sorcs glaring at you?Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Look, it's common knowledge that stamina NB is the weakest class in PvE.
V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)8 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »
Do you feel the mob of Stamina Sorcs glaring at you?Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Look, it's common knowledge that stamina NB is the weakest class in PvE.
They're a myth and currently don't exist
But after next patch, even they will deal more damage than stamina NBs in PvE
0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »
Do you feel the mob of Stamina Sorcs glaring at you?Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Look, it's common knowledge that stamina NB is the weakest class in PvE.
Stamina Nightblades are the second worst actually. But in DB patch, it is going to change anyway as the stamina sorcerers have been buffed in a way that makes them a lot better in PvE.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »
Do you feel the mob of Stamina Sorcs glaring at you?Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Look, it's common knowledge that stamina NB is the weakest class in PvE.
Stamina Nightblades are the second worst actually. But in DB patch, it is going to change anyway as the stamina sorcerers have been buffed in a way that makes them a lot better in PvE.
Yup was referring to the current state of things.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You might get a little more DPS with Flurry, but you would be a crazy fool to drop Surprise Attack in PvP for the sole reason that it can be BLOCK CAST, making it a godmode 1v1 ability. Also, it debuffs and gives benefit from Nightblade passives. SA is still a million times better than Flurry.3 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You might get a little more DPS with Flurry, but you would be a crazy fool to drop Surprise Attack in PvP for the sole reason that it can be BLOCK CAST, making it a godmode 1v1 ability. Also, it debuffs and gives benefit from Nightblade passives. SA is still a million times better than Flurry.
Stamina Nightblades are pretty good enough in PvP. The issue here is PvE.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.
So here's a video showing Rapid Strikes indeed has no global cooldown between casts (like all channels):
https://youtu.be/bofY3o3tA2g
I must say, I do like the new version much better - it's just a shame that it's so much better than the one good thing Nightblades could have in PvE (but don't).Edited by DDuke on May 12, 2016 2:56PM1 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭snip
Rerolling if it gets not super ez mode is not an answer.
Try to play NB on another level, Liberate is doing insanely fine and he does way better in Cyrodil then i do.
I also know what it feels like not being the easiest class (trust me, as stamplar i went through hell but i made it as i enjoyed it).
NB is absolutely viable and is a crazy killer class with insane burst capabilities and nobody can deny that.
U passively get the major armor and breach buff by just using ur main dmg ability which is insane... u also have the highest burst potential in pvp and its going to be way stronger. Next to that ur sustain is just incredible... free 15% regen is the best passive when it comes to ressourcemanagement and ur costs aren't high anyway... its also the lowest.
Not having major mending is just fair because u have everything else there is! And don't forget about shades, it's maybe the best ability for survival a class can have.
Now you are upset because there is a dps ability that you can use aswell.
Edited to remove a quoted comment that was removed from this discussion.Edited by ZOS_DaryaK on May 12, 2016 4:06PM1 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.
So here's a video showing Rapid Strikes indeed has no global cooldown between casts (like all channels):https://youtu.be/bofY3o3tA2g
I must say, I do like the new version much better - it's just a shame that it's so much better than the one good thing Nightblades could have in PvE (but don't).
From 4 to 11 seconds: 7 casts of Flurry (just counting the final hit) - rough estimate, worst deviation estimated: 10%.
If it didn't respect the GCD, you would have been able to cast (11 - 4) / 0.6 = 11.5 Flurry.
So, for the 520,183th time:
YOU CANNOT BYPASS A **** GCD.
DK (Dota Kene): Activate the combat logEdited by Asmael on May 12, 2016 3:10PMPC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.8 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »
Do you feel the mob of Stamina Sorcs glaring at you?Why do I keep reading in these forums?
Great thing you report dps values based on the global ability cooldown. especially, since you very well know about la->skill->bash weaves etc.
Apart from that, landing all flurry hits on a moving target isn't that easy, for special fun try it vs a Dk spammign talons and using a major expedition pot / poison / skill.
I'm really annoying, because I'm sure your numbers are not produced by a lack of knowledge but by a clear nerf/buff agenda you want to push.
*** these forums, always play fotm
Look, it's common knowledge that stamina NB is the weakest class in PvE.
They're a myth and currently don't exist
But after next patch, even they will deal more damage than stamina NBs in PvE
I feel like I very much exist already, thank you very much.
Jo'Khaljor4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Adapt and move on...
You are looking from the wrong perspective...
GO *** YOURSELF (inbefore 3 deleted post and forum ban).
I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by yelling at me.
I'm not going to reroll stamina DK if that is what you mean by adapting.
That's a way to waste a forum account btw, I'd edit the post if I were you.
Rerolling if it gets not super ez mode is not an answer.
Try to play NB on another level, Liberate is doing insanely fine and he does way better in Cyrodil then i do.
I also know what it feels like not being the easiest class (trust me, as stamplar i went through hell but i made it as i enjoyed it).
NB is absolutely viable and is a crazy killer class with insane burst capabilities and nobody can deny that.
U passively get the major armor and breach buff by just using ur main dmg ability which is insane... u also have the highest burst potential in pvp and its going to be way stronger. Next to that ur sustain is just incredible... free 15% regen is the best passive when it comes to ressourcemanagement and ur costs aren't high anyway... its also the lowest.
Not having major mending is just fair because u have everything else there is! And don't forget about shades, it's maybe the best ability for survival a class can have.
Now you are upset because there is a dps ability that you can use aswell.
Mumyo... you are looking at this from PvP perspective only. Furthermore, ganking perspective only.
NB has never been "ez mode" (well, except maybe when the 3s cast time Snipes literally one shot people).
Have you ever dueled as a Nightblade? It was doable, it was enjoyable - back when cloak worked. You weren't the strongest class (magicka sorcs were), but you'd be able to beat anyone if you were good enough.
Nowadays, you stand a snowball's chance in hell of beating any good player from other classes (stam DK, magicka sorc, magicka templar especially). Go fight Dusk, Fahad, LMage etc as a stamina NB & let me know how it went...
Meanwhile, I can log my magicka templar - I can 1vX, I can duel & fight anyone without thinking "I have no chance". I don't remember the last time I lost to a nightblade, they are by far the easiest class to beat.
Be real please. I don't deny that nightblades are really strong for ganking, perhaps even too strong. But when it comes to other aspects of the game... it's not pretty.Edited by DDuke on May 12, 2016 3:30PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Surprise Attack is currently pretty much the weakest stamina skill you can slot in terms of sustained DPS, and much worse than the PTS Rapid Strikes. I've posted the numbers to prove it, maybe you can post ones to prove me wrong?
You just posted some numbers...
...you didnt show how you got there + plus you dont have any evidence for your assumptions.
Please do a video where you cast Flurry 50 times in 30 seconds to show that there is no cooldown.
So here's a video showing Rapid Strikes indeed has no global cooldown between casts (like all channels):https://youtu.be/bofY3o3tA2g
I must say, I do like the new version much better - it's just a shame that it's so much better than the one good thing Nightblades could have in PvE (but don't).
From 4 to 11 seconds: 7 casts of Flurry (just counting the final hit) - rough estimate, worst deviation estimated: 10%.
If it didn't respect the GCD, you would have been able to cast (11 - 4) / 0.6 = 11.5 Flurry.
So, for the 520,183th time:
YOU CANNOT BYPASS A **** GCD.
DK (Dota Kene): Activate the combat log
So you are saying the cast time is longer than 0.6s the tooltip indicates? Because there is no downtime between casts.
I'll have to investigate, good thing I got this recorded :P1
