Why is the content so easy?

martinhpb16_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Lysette

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo

minute 21 and following is where it is said.

Elvent

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Remember too challenge is subjective. What is challenging for you might not be for other people and vice versa. I think if you are looking for a hardcore raiding/PVE game with stuff only a very small percentage even bother trying much less completing this isnt your game.

I like how everyone says things are so easy now but not for me apparently. I go try my first trial and died so much all my gear broke lol. So ya its challenging to me heh.

Agreed and It's challenging to me too in vet ranks where my cloth templar can almost be 2 shotted by a group of mods if I'm not quick enough to heal/kite them. My character is very squishy so maybe I'm doing it wrong I don't know but I made it to vet rank 6 so far.

I see other people out in the world coming close to dying and I make it just in time to give them a quick heal and there's been plenty of times I came too late and just see their corpse, so it must be challenging for them as well.

If things were "easy" and faceroll, nobody would die. Everything would be 1 shotted. At least that's what I think of when somebody says the game is too easy.

But anyways, I don't play video games for a challenge. I play for the story, role play, community, exploring and just having fun.

If I wanted to play something challenging it wouldn't be an RPG. It would probably be a MOBA.

Justice31st

Because you don't use the random group finder?

nimander99

Lysette wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo

minute 21 and following is where it is said.

24:11 Made me pee my pants in excitement Whoopeeee!!!!!

Edit: I want it now! Sooooooo soooo bad. But I'm very happy that content scaling is coming!

#MakeTamrielFreeAgain!!!!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I guess I dont have to search for a link after all.

timidobserver

Lysette wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo

minute 21 and following is where it is said.

In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it


minute 21 and following is where it is said.

In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."

What he is saying is they cannot justify making content that difficult if only a few players actually complete it. They want things to be more accessible. Its only two dungeons also that were the most difficult.

a1i3nz

Well this is an Elder Scrolls title. I'm sure they have a more casual demographic than some other MMOs, especially since it's also on console.

Magdalina

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it


minute 21 and following is where it is said.

In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."

What he is saying is they cannot justify making content that difficult if only a few players actually complete it. They want things to be more accessible. Its only two dungeons also that were the most difficult.

And what we are saying here is that people can't complete it because everything else is too easy and doesn't teach them their role and following game cues(avoiding red, bashing heavies, blocking, dodging, etc). So a good solution would be to try to teach people/give them incentive to learn...

Dubhliam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pL4AzGBAsU

Ch4mpTW

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pL4AzGBAsU

OMG! I love Extra Credits! Their videos always make perfect sense, and really hit home about a lot of things that are going on in the gaming community. You sir take an awesome badge.

Volkodav

AOECAPS wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.

Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.

MMOs are all the same. I don't think you understand that.

Same style of quests. Same type of leveling and progression involved. You can sugar coat it how you want. But it's still an MMO. And in MMOs generally, all content until end game is basically a tutorial. The only difference here is the content in ESO is pretty much available at any point. Doesn't mean the difficulty stays the same.

You really don't understand the motivation behind ESO - sorry, but ESO is not the typical MMO, it is an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG - ask Mr. Firor, he said it very clearly. You can ignore that of course, but it will not change to where ESO is heading.

I will ignore it indeed.

It's pretty obvious why they would stray away from the term MMO and call it an Online Rpg instead.
Propaganda.
How could Zeni distinguish themselves if they called themselves an MMO?
They can't.
They know in terms of customers and profit, their direct competitor (WoW) is clearly winning the MMO war.
This is probably how it went down in the marketing department.
"So, let's call it an Online RPG. More people love RPGs than MMOS, right?
"So, let's pull the noobies in who hate MMOs, yet love RPGS, even though it's literally a reskin of every other fantasy mmo!" "Great Idea!"
"Ahahahaha and let's use the Elder Scrolls title too!"
"C.R.E.A.M son!"
"Dollar dollar bills yalllll"

This is an MMO. Whether you like it or not.
"NOOOOOOOO"

I understand your love for the game. I get that. But please don't force feed jargen down my throat. I'm stating my opinion, respect that.

I've been playing MMOs for 20+ years and this one is literally no different in terms of experience as a low level player and a capped player. The Main Story is always the guideline for progressing to end game. This game is no different.

Any who-
Content is easy because it serves the many, over the few. More noobies in this game than there are experts.

Actually,you need to respect Lysette's opinon as well.She has hers,as you have yours.And that is ALL it is,your opinion.Not fact. You keep saying that whether she likes it or not it IS an MMO. Just because you say it is doesnt mean it is. You should have said that in your "opinion" this game is an MMO.
And Mr Firor says his game isnt a traditional MMO,so it isnt.
Tell him that you say it is and he is wrong.See if he listens to you.

You're defending her opinion yet belittling mine? This forum is 99.9% opinion anyways.
Biased much or what? Double standards? Hmm

Anywho, rock on man. Do your thing.

I'm not belittling you.I am just telling you that her opinion is just as valid as yours is.You each have your own.Get it? The issue for both of you is whether this is an MMO or not,and Mr Firor said it isnt. He s hould know. It's not,..in the traditional sense. I dont think any less of you for your opinion,but you need to understand that it is really only an opinion,as is Lysette's.
If Mr Firor hadnt said what he did about the game,there wouldnt be an issue about it.
I am not belittling you,really.

You do realize that they are branding themselves as an online RPGs instead of an MMO because 1) wow is #1 2)works better with console kiddies which equates to $$$$$
At the end of the day it's an MMO
It's about manipulating the dialogue to work for you just like being pro choice it sounds better than saying anti life and pro life saying that instead of anti abortion both of the latter have negative conotstions tied to them and effect people's way of thinking 1 way or the other you should read a book called Words that Work you will then see it's all about what you say

I didnt say that it isnt an MMO,Mr Firor did.Read Lysette's comment just above here.She quotes him.
Of course it's about the words.While there are some MMOs that arent RPGs either. I know this is an MMO,but it isnt a "traditional" one,as has been said.
All that we're doing here is arguing semantics.
Simple word play.Nothing more.
What one says is truth differs from what the other one says is truth.It's all relative in the end.

He said it's not really an MMO in the traditional sense it's still an MMO he chose his words wisely man but talking to you is like talking to a wall. Go white knight somewhere else an Online rpg is destiny,the division Diablo.

Yeah sir,boss..,I'll do as you order me to do.You all run this thread and it's forums,so whatever you say goes,Boss.(sarcasm.)
I'll white knight in these forums all I want to.It's my forum too.Been here for two years and will still be here for a long time to come.

Shadowfx1970

Perhaps because you are so uber

Shadowfx1970

Sometimes it seems that way due the vast skill levels that game developers have to cater for

Volkodav

The Uninvited wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

kampori wrote: »

Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)

Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.

Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.

I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.

Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.

As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.

Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".

That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:

I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.

It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!

That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.

And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.

Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.

Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.

That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.

You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.

You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:

Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content

This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.

All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.

At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.

I can understand that, but at the same time players are leaving because they think the game is too easy. It works both ways and I guess it's hard to find balance in that for developers.

I personally havent met anyone who has left the game due to easy content,but I am sure there are some people who have. Not enough for ZOS to worry,though,or they would work harder to please that minority.People seem to want more and more from a game.More content,more challenging content,etc.Those players will always have their ire up because they cannot find hard enough content for their play style. I'm not insulting anyone,just explaining that this will always be a problem.
As you mentioned it is truly hard to balance things out.All they can do is try to please the people who are their main player base.
There IS that old saying:
You can please some of the people some of the time,and all of the people some of the time.But you cant please all of the people all of the time.
Sadly,people want pleased,..all of them.

sigsergv

Magdalina wrote: »

And what we are saying here is that people can't complete it because everything else is too easy and doesn't teach them their role and following game cues(avoiding red, bashing heavies, blocking, dodging, etc). So a good solution would be to try to teach people/give them incentive to learn...

Why would anyone learn mechanics if one can just overdps everything? Yesterday at ZAN world boss in Wrothgar "dragon" was killed in 5 seconds, he didn't have a chance to finish his sentence! The game is so much DPS oriented so it becomes very boring.

LizardThixvim

The game is easy because all casuals and noobs come crying to forums, about things being too hard, instead of learning to play the game

Back on release date this game was amazing as it was hard to do things, bosses in dungeons USED to be hard, 70% of content was hard and took a while to complete

now you do anything naked, do the whole story pve content naked

I even done a naked vcoa run with 3 other guys but better nerf that dungeon its too hard right?

LizardThixvim

sigsergv wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

And what we are saying here is that people can't complete it because everything else is too easy and doesn't teach them their role and following game cues(avoiding red, bashing heavies, blocking, dodging, etc). So a good solution would be to try to teach people/give them incentive to learn...

Why would anyone learn mechanics if one can just overdps everything? Yesterday at ZAN world boss in Wrothgar "dragon" was killed in 5 seconds, he didn't have a chance to finish his sentence! The game is so much DPS oriented so it becomes very boring.

I agree the game is too easy as you can just nuke everything before the boss even has chance to activate his mechanics, in vcoa you can nuke the titan so he never even spits fire in air or does the big fire aoe thing when he spawns his atronach things the tank can tank them np and the dps can simply nuke him

Same goes for the daedroth in vcoa you can nuke him before he even spawns adds to come and make your life harder

0SmooK0

Don't suggest wild ideas. I am one f those players that will abandon any game the moment it becomes a grind fest. I enjoy that I can go through a questline without worrying much.

LizardThixvim

0SmooK0 wrote: »

Don't suggest wild ideas. I am one f those players that will abandon any game the moment it becomes a grind fest. I enjoy that I can go through a questline without worrying much.

Doing the boss mechanics as they was designed, and the game being difficult back when it was released, it wasnt at all a grind fest, it just took a few tries to kill something rather than just ROFLstomp anything you come across

Volkodav

Casts_Many_Heals wrote: »

0SmooK0 wrote: »

Don't suggest wild ideas. I am one f those players that will abandon any game the moment it becomes a grind fest. I enjoy that I can go through a questline without worrying much.

Doing the boss mechanics as they was designed, and the game being difficult back when it was released, it wasnt at all a grind fest, it just took a few tries to kill something rather than just ROFLstomp anything you come across

I remember how it was back then.It was great.You could come back and take down a dungeon boss if he was too much for you,once you got to a higher level.Now,they're scaled,mostly.Not all,but a lot are.
I remember going out of my head every time I tried to kill the infamous and quite deadly "Doshia".
Now,I just walk in and squish her in just a couple of hits,sadly.And not just because I am that great a player either.
Before her nerf I always felt I had accomplished something when I finally could kill her.

Runs

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Magdalina

sigsergv wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

And what we are saying here is that people can't complete it because everything else is too easy and doesn't teach them their role and following game cues(avoiding red, bashing heavies, blocking, dodging, etc). So a good solution would be to try to teach people/give them incentive to learn...

Why would anyone learn mechanics if one can just overdps everything? Yesterday at ZAN world boss in Wrothgar "dragon" was killed in 5 seconds, he didn't have a chance to finish his sentence! The game is so much DPS oriented so it becomes very boring.

Try soloing Zan instead It makes for a fun challenge.

Wrothgar pugs generally make me want to cry though...they won't start bosses you can easily solo with <10 people -.- I've literally had groupleaders disband groups because "sorry guy, only 8 here, not enough"...after which I'd proceed to solo. And solo it. And no, let's not talk about BiS gear, I've soloed them on my lvl 48 sorc just as fine.

VoiDGhOs7

Maybe someone already mentioned it but just type "Doshia" in Youtube search and look how many guides were made just to kill a Fighters Guild boss and you'll get the idea about how the game was at start when actually it was needed to learn the mechanics in addition to know how to play.But now it's a all about facetank everything with insane DPS race except for the new VMaw.

Lysette

Casts_Many_Heals wrote: »

The game is easy because all casuals and noobs come crying to forums, about things being too hard, instead of learning to play the game

Back on release date this game was amazing as it was hard to do things, bosses in dungeons USED to be hard, 70% of content was hard and took a while to complete

now you do anything naked, do the whole story pve content naked

I even done a naked vcoa run with 3 other guys but better nerf that dungeon its too hard right?

So you fist-fighted those bosses - I do not believe that for a second.

timidobserver

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.

The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.

And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.

And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?

Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.

There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.

Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.

My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.

Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.

Can you quantify that.

What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.

Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it


minute 21 and following is where it is said.

In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."

What he is saying is they cannot justify making content that difficult if only a few players actually complete it. They want things to be more accessible. Its only two dungeons also that were the most difficult.

Right and I am saying that is incorrect. There just isn't much incentive to push through the dungeons. The drop rate is horrible. The gear is BOP. CoA sets are v14 and ICP/WGT sets are either worse or slightly better than easier to obtain alternatives.

sigsergv

Magdalina wrote: »

Try soloing Zan instead It makes for a fun challenge.

Wrothgar pugs generally make me want to cry though...they won't start bosses you can easily solo with <10 people -.- I've literally had groupleaders disband groups because "sorry guy, only 8 here, not enough"...after which I'd proceed to solo. And solo it. And no, let's not talk about BiS gear, I've soloed them on my lvl 48 sorc just as fine.

I cannot solo all of them because of adds, my stamplar just can't deal with so much incoming damage and aoe circles covering whole area. But two people can handle it easily and it's actually a very fun experience.

martinhpb16_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

And what we are saying here is that people can't complete it because everything else is too easy and doesn't teach them their role and following game cues(avoiding red, bashing heavies, blocking, dodging, etc). So a good solution would be to try to teach people/give them incentive to learn...

This ^^ you hit the nail on the head.

And what we are also saying is that making content easy enough hat you can complete it with no effort or requirement for progression, skill or playstyle development is underwhelming.

martinhpb16_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo

minute 21 and following is where it is said.

Thanks for the link

my question is though what about the constant scaling down of difficulty in open world?