Why is the content so easy?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

aubrey.baconb16_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.

Such a sociable comment. Not on many Christmas card lists I bet.

You can kinda tell why he has to pug to do dungeons anyways. I prefer to be kind to my fellow players try and keep them in the game.

I never really pug anymore, just because I don't want to have to teach people basic mechanics over and over again, and it's actually easier to solo many dungeons than taking people like that with me. And I do have lots of good players to do them with, but it used to be fun to try out zone once in a while to pug it, now it's just hell, lol.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Volkodav wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.

Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.

Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.

Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.

Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.

Thats up to you but you will find yourself lonely. I prefer having lots of friends in the game. I dont mind helping people.

I do help people when I decide that I want to, but I don't want to have to help every single person that comes fresh out of noobland to teach them the basics of the game that they should have learned in the 1-50 content. There is a difference between having content being able to teach you things and it being just downright faceroll. We have the latter in this game unfortunately.

That's just your opinion.
Well,no one says you have to help anyone.Just ignore them and go on playing your game.Others will play the game as they choose.Why get all ruffled becaude someone else doesnt play the game the way you think they should? As to dungeons,
etc,..I'm one of those who could care less about doing dungeons.I do them whenever I feel like it,and mostly alone.
The game isnt really about school and teaching.It's more about just playing it the way you want to.Even if it is just collecting mats and fishing.
It's just a game for the fun of it.Most people dont like all that hair pulling that's going on here.

Yes, it's just my opinion, but when people complain that group dungeons are too hard because they can't play the game and it affects me and other dungeon runners negatively, of course we're going to lash out against it. Just as how people wants overland content super faceroll easy will defend it. If they want to only have easy content they should stick to the overland content instead of trying to get everything to their level, which is the non-existant one.

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

aubrey.baconb16_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.

Such a sociable comment. Not on many Christmas card lists I bet.

You can kinda tell why he has to pug to do dungeons anyways. I prefer to be kind to my fellow players try and keep them in the game.

Yes, I think that is what an experienced player should do - I do that in EVE a lot, and newbies are quite happy, that I am that patient, explaining things in detail and wait for them to get it and listen carefully to what they ask me and maybe even tell them a bit more then they ask, because they need the context to understand. I was new to the game once as well and I had a patient vet, who helped me understand things - this is what a vet should do, to support new players, with advice, not with money though, money would spoil them, but advice and patiently answering their questions is helpful to them.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

And should people wanting a challenge have literally 0.1% of the game then if vMaw is the only challenge in the game left? What if it was like that for the super casuals?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

So you dont want to do MoL because why? Its too hard? Do you wish they would make it a little easier so you can complete it?

Nyx2

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.

Lysette wrote: »

Vets either have all already or are not interested into buying from the crown store - so there is not much to gain from them. And when there is not much to gain from a customer group, then there is not much to do for them either. It would be wasted money and resources. They rather do content for those, who do not have all yet, and want to see all of Tamriel, and will most likely subscribe and over time buy a whole lot from the crown store with their allotment of crowns and because those are not nearly enough for all the new stuff - because they have nothing yet - they will buy extra crowns on top of it. This is the target group - with vets they have made their money already, there is not much further to gain from them, unlike from new players.

Can we stop this opinionated gibberish, accusations and not make triple posts? "Hardcore people" have as much a purse as anyone else in the game and they aren't exempt from wanting fancy customizations, DLC, subs and other content. "Money" is also an extremely weak way of making an argument. Maybe something you should avoid.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.

Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.

Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.

In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)

The guild I am in runs nights where they take newbies and teach them the ropes. Its called taking things into our own hands and not depending on ZOS to do it all for us.

What...? If they don't care about dungeons then what does the difficulty matter in the first place? It's also funny how again you have to emphasize that you're paying sub as if this makes you somehow better than everyone else.

Everything else has already been said by me. But it seems actual arguments are too inconvenient to deal with.

Volkodav

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.

Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.

Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.

Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.

Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.

Thats up to you but you will find yourself lonely. I prefer having lots of friends in the game. I dont mind helping people.

I do help people when I decide that I want to, but I don't want to have to help every single person that comes fresh out of noobland to teach them the basics of the game that they should have learned in the 1-50 content. There is a difference between having content being able to teach you things and it being just downright faceroll. We have the latter in this game unfortunately.

That's just your opinion.
Well,no one says you have to help anyone.Just ignore them and go on playing your game.Others will play the game as they choose.Why get all ruffled because someone else doesnt play the game the way you think they should? As to dungeons,
etc,..I'm one of those who could care less about doing dungeons.I do them whenever I feel like it,and mostly alone.
The game isnt really about school and teaching.It's more about just playing it the way you want to.Even if it is just collecting mats and fishing.
It's just a game for the fun of it.Most people dont like all that hair pulling that's going on here.

Yes, it's just my opinion, but when people complain that group dungeons are too hard because they can't play the game and it affects me and other dungeon runners negatively, of course we're going to lash out against it. Just as how people wants overland content super faceroll easy will defend it. If they want to only have easy content they should stick to the overland content instead of trying to get everything to their level, which is the non-existant one.

Stated like this,I can agree to a point.
If they are unable to do the content stay away from it,as I said in an earlier comment.However,there are no non-existent levels.
(they dont exist)

Lysette

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

And should people wanting a challenge have literally 0.1% of the game then if vMaw is the only challenge in the game left? What if it was like that for the super casuals?

You don't understand - ZOS is a business, they do content for the masses, not for a few 1337 players. If the content is not done by a lot of people, it will be scaled down, until enough players are doing that content. Your wishes are just relevant, if they match with the wishes of the masses and with the expectations of ZOS - if they don't, they are irrelevant.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

So you dont want to do MoL because why? Its too hard? Do you wish they would make it a little easier so you can complete it?

I do vMaw, but it does get boring to only have 1 thing to do in the game that is a challenge though. What if we turn things around, what if we made only the tutorial in coldharbour super easy and everything else challenging? Would you be happy then? As that's basically what you're telling us that wants a challenge to be happy with.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

And should people wanting a challenge have literally 0.1% of the game then if vMaw is the only challenge in the game left? What if it was like that for the super casuals?

You don't understand - ZOS is a business, they do content for the masses, not for a few 1337 players. If the content is not done by a lot of people, it will be scaled down, until enough players are doing that content. Your wishes are just relevant, if they match with the wishes of the masses - if they don't, they are irrelevant.

Well, they do spit out super easy content every three months, the casuals can have that, just leave group dungeons to people wanting a challenge, even if it's only the vet dungeons. I'd be happy with them and the trials being a challenge. Leave all of the overworld content and normal group dungeons easymode, while letting the people wanting a challenge have the vet dungeons and trials. That would be a good thing for everyone.

Magdalina

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

Issue is those were the LAST challenging 4 man instances in the game and we haven't been given anything in their place unfortunately.

It's great that there is MoL but that doesn't make up for missing 4 man challenging content. I can assure you if they'd at least bothered to scale DSA there'd be much less complaining.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

So you dont want to do MoL because why? Its too hard? Do you wish they would make it a little easier so you can complete it?

I do vMaw, but it does get boring to only have 1 thing to do in the game that is a challenge though. What if we turn things around, what if we made only the tutorial in coldharbour super easy and everything else challenging? Would you be happy then? As that's basically what you're telling us that wants a challenge to be happy with.

What I am saying is there is already a challenging group trial in the game. You havent finished it unless you are in hodor. So why instead of wanting the current content made harder dont you do the latest raid which is there for you. You say you want challenge but if that was true youd be trying to figure out how to finish MoL.

Lysette

Nyx2 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.

Lysette wrote: »

Vets either have all already or are not interested into buying from the crown store - so there is not much to gain from them. And when there is not much to gain from a customer group, then there is not much to do for them either. It would be wasted money and resources. They rather do content for those, who do not have all yet, and want to see all of Tamriel, and will most likely subscribe and over time buy a whole lot from the crown store with their allotment of crowns and because those are not nearly enough for all the new stuff - because they have nothing yet - they will buy extra crowns on top of it. This is the target group - with vets they have made their money already, there is not much further to gain from them, unlike from new players.

Can we stop this opinionated gibberish, accusations and not make triple posts? "Hardcore people" have as much a purse as anyone else in the game and they aren't exempt from wanting fancy customizations, DLC, subs and other content. "Money" is also an extremely weak way of making an argument. Maybe something you should avoid.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.

Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.

Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.

In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)

The guild I am in runs nights where they take newbies and teach them the ropes. Its called taking things into our own hands and not depending on ZOS to do it all for us.

What...? If they don't care about dungeons then what does the difficulty matter in the first place? It's also funny how again you have to emphasize that you're paying sub as if this makes you somehow better than everyone else.

Everything else has already been said by me. But it seems actual arguments are too inconvenient to deal with.

Money is a weak argument?- For a profit business, which is funded by investors?- Are you crazy?- Money is the only argument.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.

Lysette wrote: »

Vets either have all already or are not interested into buying from the crown store - so there is not much to gain from them. And when there is not much to gain from a customer group, then there is not much to do for them either. It would be wasted money and resources. They rather do content for those, who do not have all yet, and want to see all of Tamriel, and will most likely subscribe and over time buy a whole lot from the crown store with their allotment of crowns and because those are not nearly enough for all the new stuff - because they have nothing yet - they will buy extra crowns on top of it. This is the target group - with vets they have made their money already, there is not much further to gain from them, unlike from new players.

Can we stop this opinionated gibberish, accusations and not make triple posts? "Hardcore people" have as much a purse as anyone else in the game and they aren't exempt from wanting fancy customizations, DLC, subs and other content. "Money" is also an extremely weak way of making an argument. Maybe something you should avoid.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.

Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.

Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.

In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)

The guild I am in runs nights where they take newbies and teach them the ropes. Its called taking things into our own hands and not depending on ZOS to do it all for us.

What...? If they don't care about dungeons then what does the difficulty matter in the first place? It's also funny how again you have to emphasize that you're paying sub as if this makes you somehow better than everyone else.

Everything else has already been said by me. But it seems actual arguments are too inconvenient to deal with.

Money is a weak argument?- For a profit business, which is funded by investors?- Are you crazy?- Money is the only argument.

You go to the boss and ask for a budget to do a dungeon. Boss tells you hardly anyone is using the dungeon we paid you for 6 months to make. How about we try making things more people can do instead? Its not always what you want to do but what can make you the most money. These mods and devs are real people with college educations who want a good life for themselves and their families. To say they should worry about money as a secondary thing is simply ludicrous.

Woops responded to wrong person sorry but anyways leaving it regardless lol.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

So you dont want to do MoL because why? Its too hard? Do you wish they would make it a little easier so you can complete it?

I do vMaw, but it does get boring to only have 1 thing to do in the game that is a challenge though. What if we turn things around, what if we made only the tutorial in coldharbour super easy and everything else challenging? Would you be happy then? As that's basically what you're telling us that wants a challenge to be happy with.

What I am saying is there is already a challenging group trial in the game. You havent finished it unless you are in hodor. So why instead of wanting the current content made harder dont you do the latest raid which is there for you. You say you want challenge but if that was true youd be trying to figure out how to finish MoL.

Actually, Hodor aren't the only ones, there are guilds on the NA server that have completed it too. And it's not about having vMaw, it's about how the entire rest of the game have been nerfed into oblivion so that most experienced people soloes pretty much every group dungeon, normal and veteran. And the existing group content used to be harder, but it was nerfed because of people that have nothing in there to do whining about things being too hard. Seriously, they need to buff group dungeons up to where they used to be, then we don't even need this discussion at all.

Volkodav

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

And should people wanting a challenge have literally 0.1% of the game then if vMaw is the only challenge in the game left? What if it was like that for the super casuals?

You don't understand - ZOS is a business, they do content for the masses, not for a few 1337 players. If the content is not done by a lot of people, it will be scaled down, until enough players are doing that content. Your wishes are just relevant, if they match with the wishes of the masses - if they don't, they are irrelevant.

Well, they do spit out super easy content every three months, the casuals can have that, just leave group dungeons to people wanting a challenge, even if it's only the vet dungeons. I'd be happy with them and the trials being a challenge. Leave all of the overworld content and normal group dungeons easymode, while letting the people wanting a challenge have the vet dungeons and trials. That would be a good thing for everyone.

Just because people dont do PvP or scream for harder and harder content doesnt make them "casuals".You people have no ideas what that word means,though I keep trying to educate you about it.
Sigh,..
as to the vet dungeons,fine,I say let them have it.There is plenty of people to play the real game.
Also,Lysette is right,ya know. ZOS isnt going to listen to a very small portion of players over those who are fine with the content's levels of difficulty. They like people to stick around and pay them money.And keep paying them money.
It's absolute common business sense. It may not be what you would like to hear,but it is true.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Again more hyperbole. The rest of the hasnt been "nerfed into oblivion". People leaving feedback also are not considered "whining". They are giving their opinions just like you are leaving your feedback. I dont think belittling people is going to make your argument stronger.

Volkodav

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again more hyperbole. The rest of the hasnt been "nerfed into oblivion". People leaving feedback also are not considered "whining". They are giving their opinions just like you are leaving your feedback. I dont think belittling people is going to make your argument stronger.

To whom are you referring?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again more hyperbole. The rest of the hasnt been "nerfed into oblivion". People leaving feedback also are not considered "whining". They are giving their opinions just like you are leaving your feedback. I dont think belittling people is going to make your argument stronger.

When people are soloing the vet dungeons scaled to v16, then I'd say it's super easy, yes. I can find you links to the videos if you want.

Lysette

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

So you dont want to do MoL because why? Its too hard? Do you wish they would make it a little easier so you can complete it?

I do vMaw, but it does get boring to only have 1 thing to do in the game that is a challenge though. What if we turn things around, what if we made only the tutorial in coldharbour super easy and everything else challenging? Would you be happy then? As that's basically what you're telling us that wants a challenge to be happy with.

What I am saying is there is already a challenging group trial in the game. You havent finished it unless you are in hodor. So why instead of wanting the current content made harder dont you do the latest raid which is there for you. You say you want challenge but if that was true youd be trying to figure out how to finish MoL.

Actually, Hodor aren't the only ones, there are guilds on the NA server that have completed it too. And it's not about having vMaw, it's about how the entire rest of the game have been nerfed into oblivion so that most experienced people soloes pretty much every group dungeon, normal and veteran. And the existing group content used to be harder, but it was nerfed because of people that have nothing in there to do whining about things being too hard. Seriously, they need to buff group dungeons up to where they used to be, then we don't even need this discussion at all.

You have to realize, that you are not the target group anymore - it is like in real world with seniors, they are not the target group, they have done all, they have bought all, it is not much to expect from them anymore, they are irrelevant for the progress of the business - they have done their part, and now they are just ballast, left to cease - you cannot expect that a lot is done for this group, a bit maybe, but all other efforts go into making the game comfortable for those, who will stay for a long time and will need a long time to complete the content, but it does not have to be too hard for them, or they will leave. They are the target group now, and all effort goes into pleasing them.

Nyx2

Lysette wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.

Lysette wrote: »

Vets either have all already or are not interested into buying from the crown store - so there is not much to gain from them. And when there is not much to gain from a customer group, then there is not much to do for them either. It would be wasted money and resources. They rather do content for those, who do not have all yet, and want to see all of Tamriel, and will most likely subscribe and over time buy a whole lot from the crown store with their allotment of crowns and because those are not nearly enough for all the new stuff - because they have nothing yet - they will buy extra crowns on top of it. This is the target group - with vets they have made their money already, there is not much further to gain from them, unlike from new players.

Can we stop this opinionated gibberish, accusations and not make triple posts? "Hardcore people" have as much a purse as anyone else in the game and they aren't exempt from wanting fancy customizations, DLC, subs and other content. "Money" is also an extremely weak way of making an argument. Maybe something you should avoid.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.

Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.

Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.

In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)

The guild I am in runs nights where they take newbies and teach them the ropes. Its called taking things into our own hands and not depending on ZOS to do it all for us.

What...? If they don't care about dungeons then what does the difficulty matter in the first place? It's also funny how again you have to emphasize that you're paying sub as if this makes you somehow better than everyone else.

Everything else has already been said by me. But it seems actual arguments are too inconvenient to deal with.

Money is a weak argument?- For a profit business, which is funded by investors?- Are you crazy?- Money is the only argument.

Yeah, using facts, logic and reason for your arguments. That sure is crazy. They receive a TON of money so no, money is not only not an argument, it's also irrelevant and a cheap distraction from your side. And even on this irrelevant aspect you failed to refute anything of what I said. "Vet players" pay as much as anyone else. There is no differentiation to casual players and their spendings.

I see even on the forums I'm not getting any challenge.

Rva_Kun

Simple answer, cuz game is ez.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQS9g3moHvM

Here, as an example to show how easy vet dungeons are

purple-magicb16_ESO

Waseem wrote: »

play naked

no, pvp naked

Pangnirtung

Why make 2,000,000 Lamborghinis a year when only a few ppl can afford them?

That is why car makers produce vehicles that MOST ppl can afford.

Same goes for ZOS and content. It would be nice for those Lamborghini owners to get their vehicles updated regularly but financially it makes no sense.

Volkodav

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They only changed two 4 man dungeons. There is still MoL that noone has beaten except hodor. Have you thought about doing that?

What about all the other dungeons though, that have gotten the nerf hammer on them over and over and over again? Can't they raise the difficulty on them again? I mean, you want overland content the way it is, so you got to understand that the people that want a challenge wants to keep it that way in group content.

So you dont want to do MoL because why? Its too hard? Do you wish they would make it a little easier so you can complete it?

I do vMaw, but it does get boring to only have 1 thing to do in the game that is a challenge though. What if we turn things around, what if we made only the tutorial in coldharbour super easy and everything else challenging? Would you be happy then? As that's basically what you're telling us that wants a challenge to be happy with.

What I am saying is there is already a challenging group trial in the game. You havent finished it unless you are in hodor. So why instead of wanting the current content made harder dont you do the latest raid which is there for you. You say you want challenge but if that was true youd be trying to figure out how to finish MoL.

Actually, Hodor aren't the only ones, there are guilds on the NA server that have completed it too. And it's not about having vMaw, it's about how the entire rest of the game have been nerfed into oblivion so that most experienced people soloes pretty much every group dungeon, normal and veteran. And the existing group content used to be harder, but it was nerfed because of people that have nothing in there to do whining about things being too hard. Seriously, they need to buff group dungeons up to where they used to be, then we don't even need this discussion at all.

You have to realize, that you are not the target group anymore - it is like in real world with seniors, they are not the target group, they have done all, they have bought all, it is not much to expect from them anymore, they are irrelevant for the progress of the business - they have done their part, and now they are just ballast, left to cease - you cannot expect that a lot is done for this group, a bit maybe, but all other efforts go into making the game comfortable for those, who will stay for a long time and will need a long time to complete the content, but it does not have to be too hard for them, or they will leave. They are the target group now, and all effort goes into pleasing them.

That's kind of a harsh example,Lysette.Seniors arent irrelevant,left to cease,ballast. That's kind of cruel.There are a lot of seniors here that play and will continue to do so for a long time.Many of them,though the younger ones dont realize this.
The target group doesnt ask your age,it doesnt dismiss you if you are over a certain age.We all play,all ages,and our money is as important to ZOS as younger players.
Not being rude,but it's truth.

Lysette

Nyx2 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.

Lysette wrote: »

Vets either have all already or are not interested into buying from the crown store - so there is not much to gain from them. And when there is not much to gain from a customer group, then there is not much to do for them either. It would be wasted money and resources. They rather do content for those, who do not have all yet, and want to see all of Tamriel, and will most likely subscribe and over time buy a whole lot from the crown store with their allotment of crowns and because those are not nearly enough for all the new stuff - because they have nothing yet - they will buy extra crowns on top of it. This is the target group - with vets they have made their money already, there is not much further to gain from them, unlike from new players.

Can we stop this opinionated gibberish, accusations and not make triple posts? "Hardcore people" have as much a purse as anyone else in the game and they aren't exempt from wanting fancy customizations, DLC, subs and other content. "Money" is also an extremely weak way of making an argument. Maybe something you should avoid.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Because they want fresh level 3's to be able to enjoy the game.

Shouldnt everyone? From the start? Fresh level 3's are important.

Fresh level 3s have a whole world to explore.

Jaded level v16s dont.

Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)

Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).

Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.

For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.

I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm

I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.

The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.

Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....

I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.

The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.

There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.

I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.

Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.

Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.

In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)

The guild I am in runs nights where they take newbies and teach them the ropes. Its called taking things into our own hands and not depending on ZOS to do it all for us.

What...? If they don't care about dungeons then what does the difficulty matter in the first place? It's also funny how again you have to emphasize that you're paying sub as if this makes you somehow better than everyone else.

Everything else has already been said by me. But it seems actual arguments are too inconvenient to deal with.

Money is a weak argument?- For a profit business, which is funded by investors?- Are you crazy?- Money is the only argument.

Yeah, using facts, logic and reason for your arguments. That sure is crazy. They receive a TON of money so no, money is not only not an argument, it's also irrelevant and a cheap distraction from your side. And even on this irrelevant aspect you failed to refute anything of what I said. "Vet players" pay as much as anyone else. There is no differentiation to casual players and their spendings.

I see even on the forums I'm not getting any challenge.

You have spent money - but as you have all you need already, you will not spend as much as a new player in the future. That is the point of it - and why older players and older people in the real world are no longer the target group - they have done their part, not much to expect from them in the future, compared to the new and younger ones, who have nothing and need all.

Edit: what was in the past, is pretty irrelevant for a business, what counts is what revenue can be generated now and in future.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again more hyperbole. The rest of the hasnt been "nerfed into oblivion". People leaving feedback also are not considered "whining". They are giving their opinions just like you are leaving your feedback. I dont think belittling people is going to make your argument stronger.

When people are soloing the vet dungeons scaled to v16, then I'd say it's super easy, yes. I can find you links to the videos if you want.

So a few people can do that? Big deal. Always a few people who can do things like that. Doesnt mean anything.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Why make 2,000,000 Lamborghinis a year when only a few ppl can afford them?

That is why car makers produce vehicles that MOST ppl can afford.

Same goes for ZOS and content. It would be nice for those Lamborghini owners to get their vehicles updated regularly but financially it makes no sense.

Well I mean they could say we made a new difficult dungeon. It costs $500 but its sweet.