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Why is the content so easy?
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The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »x5ofspadez wrote: »I know alot of it is the power creep, however it feels like things are getting ever easier. The only "challenging" 4 player content in the game is getting nerfed, (as of PTS 2.4.0) and honestly it feels like if anything they should be getting buffed.
I cant be the only one who thinks this way.
You might not be the only one, but ZOS is not going that route. In an interview they stated, that they watch the data closely of how many people are doing the content, how many get through it and how many abandon it. And based on this data they decide about the difficulty of the content, because they want more people to be able to complete it and not just power players. So don't expect that there will be changes, which make it harder, it is most likely not happening.
But that data could be seriously skewed. I know a lot of players that farm the first boss in a dungeon for gear and than leave. Does that count as a not completed attempt?
Guess so - so these grinder work against their own interests - grinding is anyway undesired gameplay.
True, it just could be that the "elite" grinders are to blame themselves...Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
mdylan2013✭✭✭✭✭mdylan2013 wrote: »I kinda like what they are doing. Hopefully they can bring out new content which is very challenging and then over time nerf it so people who aren't as 'skilled' can complete it. the 'skilled' players get newer content with the new gear and those that struggled can finally complete the content.
Umm,..that wouldnt really work well,as people who pay for a game that excludes them from content wont stay very long. I mean new content for just "skilled" players will mean that those who arent into PvP or severely hard content will not have anything new to look forward to.
Having said that,I think a new DLC for just "skilled" players would be cool though.One that is all about hard challenges.Rough dungeons and delves,really hard bosses,etc. Give them one for the needed challenges that normal players dont feel the need for. And normal players (without those advanced skills you speak of) would know that it's a bit beyond most of them and accept it.
Dont just make ALL new content for elite players. Bad business move there.
There already is this content In the game, just look at how difficult VICP was when it first came out and how difficult the new trial is now? There's no reason why they can't be nerfed in the future to allow more people to complete them as more fresh harder content comes out (alongside the usual DLC comtent).PS4/EU
CP-1300+
PSN - LookoutLuke
15 Max level toons
PVE/PVP0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.Edited by Lysette on May 1, 2016 12:44PM3 -
swirve✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »If the game content is toooooo easy show me your dro martha skin from beating the maw of lorkhaj at vet 16...until then maybe you are just running the easy content and need to step up from the sandpit and play with da big boyz n gurlz
Nice troll attempt. But if you're serious, than I would counter that argument by saying the learning curve gap between anything else and vMoL is too big.
Nope...you got AA and Helra hm is average to above average skill, SO as skilled and vMoL as top tier...nice progression in skill for group play....once the next level of over gearing happens they all shift down..
If you solo you have vMA do this across different classes for different challenge.
You also gave vDSA...
The learning gap is not that great its pretty typical of an mmo..
But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »I was even stuck in a silver pledge because I pugged it.
Eng game isnt about completing the content or not, its about completing it with the best time and score.
What is your score in maelstrom arena and with what class?
Can you get above 35k score in DSA?
Have you finished all hardmodes in craglorn trials?
Have you completed vet MOL yet?
Are you getting mad if a goldpledge takes more then 20 minuites?
What is your rank in pvp?
End game IS about completing content,..and it isnt timed. If you are refering to PvP,that isnt end game.Maelstrom isnt end game. End game is when you finish the main questline.Then do all the other side quests,etc.
None of them are timed,but for the heists in TG.
Edited by Volkodav on May 1, 2016 12:42PM0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
But that's you, not everyone likes a challenge, not every likes to struggle. Personally, I love to make my character so OP that I can steamroll everything, I can go into a fight and KNOW I'm not going to die... but I also only do PvE questing, so fights are just part of the fun- and yes, I find killing enemies quickly to be fun.
CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~4 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »I was even stuck in a silver pledge because I pugged it.
Eng game isnt about completing the content or not, its about completing it with the best time and score.
What is your score in maelstrom arena and with what class?
Can you get above 35k score in DSA?
Have you finished all hardmodes in craglorn trials?
Have you completed vet MOL yet?
Are you getting mad if a goldpledge takes more then 20 minuites?
What is your rank in pvp?
End game IS about completing content,..and it isnt timed. If you are refering to PvP,that isnt end game.Maelstrom isnt end game. End game is when you finish the main questline.Then do all the other side quests,etc.
None of them are timed,but for the heists in TG.
ah ok then.
yes quests are too easy agree PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends2 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »If the game content is toooooo easy show me your dro martha skin from beating the maw of lorkhaj at vet 16...until then maybe you are just running the easy content and need to step up from the sandpit and play with da big boyz n gurlz
Nice troll attempt. But if you're serious, than I would counter that argument by saying the learning curve gap between anything else and vMoL is too big.
Nope...you got AA and Helra hm is average to above average skill, SO as skilled and vMoL as top tier...nice progression in skill for group play....once the next level of over gearing happens they all shift down..
If you solo you have vMA do this across different classes for different challenge.
You also gave vDSA...
The learning gap is not that great its pretty typical of an mmo..
But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...
Out of all these, the only one I didn't complete yet is vMoL and vMA (because I don't feel like playing solo in an MMO). AA and Hel Ra are burn fests and the fastest SO run I did was 18 minutes with hardmode.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
But that's you, not everyone likes a challenge, not every likes to struggle. Personally, I love to make my character so OP that I can steamroll everything, I can go into a fight and KNOW I'm not going to die... but I also only do PvE questing, so fights are just part of the fun- and yes, I find killing enemies quickly to be fun.
And so do others as well, and the majority is already happy, if they can do it at all.3 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.Edited by Lysette on May 1, 2016 12:52PM1 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
But that's you, not everyone likes a challenge, not every likes to struggle. Personally, I love to make my character so OP that I can steamroll everything, I can go into a fight and KNOW I'm not going to die... but I also only do PvE questing, so fights are just part of the fun- and yes, I find killing enemies quickly to be fun.
You're right, but right now there are far more options for the people that want the "no challenge/kill everything mode" and not so much options for the "challenge mode".Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
swirve✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »If the game content is toooooo easy show me your dro martha skin from beating the maw of lorkhaj at vet 16...until then maybe you are just running the easy content and need to step up from the sandpit and play with da big boyz n gurlz
Nice troll attempt. But if you're serious, than I would counter that argument by saying the learning curve gap between anything else and vMoL is too big.
Nope...you got AA and Helra hm is average to above average skill, SO as skilled and vMoL as top tier...nice progression in skill for group play....once the next level of over gearing happens they all shift down..
If you solo you have vMA do this across different classes for different challenge.
You also gave vDSA...
The learning gap is not that great its pretty typical of an mmo..
But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...
Out of all these, the only one I didn't complete yet is vMoL and vMA (because I don't feel like playing solo in an MMO). AA and Hel Ra are burn fests and the fastest SO run I did was 18 minutes with hardmode.
Erm u do realise vMoL is group content...if you can burn everything else with ease you should be doing progression on that not being a leetist to other players...
SO HM? or normal...you do realise SO is getting a vet version with scaling...
Also not everyone feels like or can be top end but sounds like you are a very self centred individual...
Im happy that they make content more accessible while also introducing hard stuff..until you beat vMoL at v16 you have no right in my view to complain the content is too easy0 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real3 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I keep playing for the PVP if it wasn't for the PVP and my guild mates I would have probably left months ago. Plus their no where else to go on Xbox.Well until now I already see a lot of my friends who used to play ESO religiously switch to DC Universe online.
I tired that and the game is still mind numbly easy.It doesn't help at all.phaneub17_ESO wrote: »You could try to, you know, reset all your Champion points and not spend a single one. Just leave them open without allocating a single one.
But,if it is waaay too easy,why still play?
Please dont think I am being snarky.
It's just that there are so many great game out there that have much more challenging content than does ESO. It is meant to be a game for all players.People who are new to MMOs,people who just want to have fun,and not have it so hard they cannot complete the tasks in the content.Hard core PvPers or those wanting sever challenges arent going to be that happy with ESO.
It isnt a hard core PvP game,..just a game to enjoy for the main stream crowd,really.It used to be a lot harder,back in the day when it first came out.They changed it to fit the majority of players who werent up to the difficulty levels.
Am fine with the game not being to challenging but not so easy that you can beat the game with no weapons equip.That's the problem with the game the scale is completely unbalanced it's to easy on one scale and then don't prepare you for end game and then people complain and Nerf content because the game did not prepare them for anything remotely challenging.That's my personal gripe with ESO they make extremely difficult Vet content but easy normal version of the same content.The Normal version should prepare you for the Vet at this time it doesn't do that.If ZOS fixed that I'll be ok with the game.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
They didn't, because that is power creep - and they want to avoid it or at least delay it as long as they possibly can. To want ever increasing power leads to demand for ever increasing difficulty - which goes further and further away from the average player, who will most likely never use this kind of content - and so they do not create it, because it will not benefit the majority. As an endgame player you have invested into the game most likely and bought stuff from the crown store already - there is not much more to gain from this group - they have done their part, but they won't contribute much in future - not that much as a new player will, who is not scared away by difficulty - there is the mass market for them, where the money is, because new players have nothing and need all - while older players have all what they want already and are no longer the target group.3 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »If the game content is toooooo easy show me your dro martha skin from beating the maw of lorkhaj at vet 16...until then maybe you are just running the easy content and need to step up from the sandpit and play with da big boyz n gurlz
Nice troll attempt. But if you're serious, than I would counter that argument by saying the learning curve gap between anything else and vMoL is too big.
Nope...you got AA and Helra hm is average to above average skill, SO as skilled and vMoL as top tier...nice progression in skill for group play....once the next level of over gearing happens they all shift down..
If you solo you have vMA do this across different classes for different challenge.
You also gave vDSA...
The learning gap is not that great its pretty typical of an mmo..
But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...
Out of all these, the only one I didn't complete yet is vMoL and vMA (because I don't feel like playing solo in an MMO). AA and Hel Ra are burn fests and the fastest SO run I did was 18 minutes with hardmode.
Erm u do realise vMoL is group content...if you can burn everything else with ease you should be doing progression on that not being a leetist to other players...
SO HM? or normal...you do realise SO is getting a vet version with scaling...
Also not everyone feels like or can be top end but sounds like you are a very self centred individual...
Im happy that they make content more accessible while also introducing hard stuff..until you beat vMoL at v16 you have no right in my view to complain the content is too easy
Show me where I am being a leetist to other players please? I am not calling myself an elite player and the other ones casual noobs. I am just asking for something challenging.
Self centered? Look at your own first comment on this topic.But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...
I did, and than you come back at me with this?until you beat vMoL at v16 you have no right in my view to complain the content is too easy
I do realise that SO is getting scaled up and I'm actually pretty happy about that one.Edited by The Uninvited on May 1, 2016 1:21PMPandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Plus their no where else to go on Xbox.Well until now I already see a lot of my friends who used to play ESO religiously switch to DC Universe online.
That's because it's shiny and new... with DCUO just being released for Xbox... but having come from DCUO, I'd say ESO is leagues above it. If people hate repetition here, just wait until they play DCUO... where you have to run the 'same exact mission' over and over and over and over again to gain points to progress. Plus, they have lockouts, so you have to buy and spend replay badges if you're loot locked, until the mission resets... which, last I knew was weekly (four man) and monthly (eight man).CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
They didn't, because that is power creep - and they want to avoid it or at least delay it as long as they possibly can. To want ever increasing power leads to demand for ever increasing difficulty - which goes further and further away from the average player, who will most likely never use this kind of content - and so they do not create it, because it will not benefit the majority. As an endgame player you have invested into the game most likely and bought stuff from the crown store already - there is not much more to gain from this group - they have done their part, but they won't contribute much in future - not that much as a new player will, who is not scared away by difficulty - there is the mass market for them, where the money is, because new players have nothing and need all - while older players have all what they want already and are no longer the target group.
Totally understandable point of view. But I too still subscribe and buy mounts or costumes that I like. And I buy the DLC's too, because I also like the quests and storyline of the game. But after I have finished them I would like some challenge as well. Guess I will focus on PVP for a while.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
They didn't, because that is power creep - and they want to avoid it or at least delay it as long as they possibly can. To want ever increasing power leads to demand for ever increasing difficulty - which goes further and further away from the average player, who will most likely never use this kind of content - and so they do not create it, because it will not benefit the majority. As an endgame player you have invested into the game most likely and bought stuff from the crown store already - there is not much more to gain from this group - they have done their part, but they won't contribute much in future - not that much as a new player will, who is not scared away by difficulty - there is the mass market for them, where the money is, because new players have nothing and need all - while older players have all what they want already and are no longer the target group.
Totally understandable point of view. But I too still subscribe and buy mounts or costumes that I like. And I buy the DLC's too, because I also like the quests and storyline of the game. But after I have finished them I would like some challenge as well. Guess I will focus on PVP for a while.
I am pretty sure, ZOS will add some challenging content, but the problem is, it will not end the complains, because it takes more time to create this content than players need to get bored with it again. This is sisyphean work, which on top of it is not any likely to earn enough money to justify the work put into it. And having the option between doing stuff, which will neither be played by the majority nor earn a comparable amount of money to just adding more regions to the game - they will go for more regions and nice and pretty content which is easy enough to be fun to play for an average player - simply because those are the majority.
Edit: just look at TG DLC - ZOS said they have made the most challenging group content they did so far in this DLC - and what do people say?- Well, there is no reason to return to Hew's Bane - and this should make ZOS more likely to add more challenging content?- Just if they are forced to, they do not put a lot of work into content, which life-cycle is just a couple of weeks.Edited by Lysette on May 1, 2016 1:26PM2 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
They didn't, because that is power creep - and they want to avoid it or at least delay it as long as they possibly can. To want ever increasing power leads to demand for ever increasing difficulty - which goes further and further away from the average player, who will most likely never use this kind of content - and so they do not create it, because it will not benefit the majority. As an endgame player you have invested into the game most likely and bought stuff from the crown store already - there is not much more to gain from this group - they have done their part, but they won't contribute much in future - not that much as a new player will, who is not scared away by difficulty - there is the mass market for them, where the money is, because new players have nothing and need all - while older players have all what they want already and are no longer the target group.
Totally understandable point of view. But I too still subscribe and buy mounts or costumes that I like. And I buy the DLC's too, because I also like the quests and storyline of the game. But after I have finished them I would like some challenge as well. Guess I will focus on PVP for a while.
I am pretty sure, ZOS will add some challenging content, but the problem is, it will not end the complains, because it takes more time to create this content than players need to get bored with it again. This is sisyphean work, which on top of it is not any likely to earn enough money to justify the work put into it. And having the option between doing stuff, which will neither be played by the majority nor earn a comparable amount of money to just adding more regions to the game - they will go for more regions and nice and pretty content which is easy enough to be fun to play for an average player - simply because those are the majority.
That's all very true, unfortunately. Well, guess we're going to have to live with that.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Edit: just look at TG DLC - ZOS said they have made the most challenging group content they did so far in this DLC - and what do people say?- Well, there is no reason to return to Hew's Bane - and this should make ZOS more likely to add more challenging content?- Just if they are forced to, they do not put a lot of work into content, which life-cycle is just a couple of weeks.
They did make the most challenging group content with vMoL. They are not wrong about that and the progression guilds keep coming back for that. It's just not an easy task to form groups of 12 people that are online and willing to do it at the same time.
From my experience, the forming of a group of 12 for AA, Hel Ra or Sanctum often takes more time than it does to complete the trial itself.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real3 -
binho✭✭✭Every time some complains about the content being too easy, I wonder...
How many CP do you have?
Why not trying to make the content with no CP allocated?!
Because then the content is probably harder! Give it a go
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Edit: just look at TG DLC - ZOS said they have made the most challenging group content they did so far in this DLC - and what do people say?- Well, there is no reason to return to Hew's Bane - and this should make ZOS more likely to add more challenging content?- Just if they are forced to, they do not put a lot of work into content, which life-cycle is just a couple of weeks.
They did make the most challenging group content with vMoL. They are not wrong about that and the progression guilds keep coming back for that. It's just not an easy task to form groups of 12 people that are online and willing to do it at the same time.
From my experience, the forming of a group of 12 for AA, Hel Ra or Sanctum often takes more time than it does to complete the trial itself.
Yes, that is another problem ESO has - lack of ingame communities, very bad guild system, which does not support communication within the guild very well - EVE has far less players than ESO, far less - but it is not a problem for EVE players to have massive battles with hundreds of players involved - and to find a roaming fleet with a few dozens of players is no issue at all. But that is due to that the game supports ingame communities in a very nice way, corporations, alliances of many corporations and so. ESO is more oriented towards where TES is coming from - solo play - and this can be felt and it is as well what is the current goal of ZOS management - they called it an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG - basically TES solo or with a few friends.Edited by Lysette on May 1, 2016 1:43PM2 -
Yinmaigao✭✭✭✭✭
✭phaneub17_ESO wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
WoW has 4 tiers of dungeon difficulty: Normal, Heroic, Mythic, and Challenge Mode; that last one is like Trials where you are timed in a 5-man party on how fast you can clear them with harder mechanics. 4 tiers of raid difficulty: Looking For Raid, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic; the first 3 are flex modes which means any range of 10-30 players can play together, the last one is a fixed 20-players with fairly difficult content. They also have a mini-world PvP zone, group battlegrounds that players can either randomly queue or be in organized groups, rated battlegrounds for organized groups only, 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 arenas. And for those who don't like to be ranked can do PvP skirmishes which is more like practice mode.
This is the kind of thing I hope ZoS never does.
I played WoW for almost 12 years, and was at different stratums during different times in my life. Got through part of Naxx in vanilla, one of the most progressed guilds on my server during BC, slacked off a bit, then stated raiding again.
But I can tell you one thing: having so many different tiers of raiding/gear/content causes a player-enforced caste system.
The "normal" mode players guffaw at "looking-for-raid" players, bickering about "how easy it if, just git gud." (Sound familiar around here? ). And it goes downhill from there. My guild was selling mythic Garrosh kills to pugs a couple months before I quit, and you should hear some of the things that people would call them, AND THEY WOULD TAKE THE ABUSE!
It is already starting here (re: pleb, potato, etc) and it scares me how far it will go if left unchecked.
TLDR: Creating more reasons for players to become even more segregated and seperated in an MMO is bad!3 -
swirve✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »If the game content is toooooo easy show me your dro martha skin from beating the maw of lorkhaj at vet 16...until then maybe you are just running the easy content and need to step up from the sandpit and play with da big boyz n gurlz
Nice troll attempt. But if you're serious, than I would counter that argument by saying the learning curve gap between anything else and vMoL is too big.
Nope...you got AA and Helra hm is average to above average skill, SO as skilled and vMoL as top tier...nice progression in skill for group play....once the next level of over gearing happens they all shift down..
If you solo you have vMA do this across different classes for different challenge.
You also gave vDSA...
The learning gap is not that great its pretty typical of an mmo..
But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...
Out of all these, the only one I didn't complete yet is vMoL and vMA (because I don't feel like playing solo in an MMO). AA and Hel Ra are burn fests and the fastest SO run I did was 18 minutes with hardmode.
Erm u do realise vMoL is group content...if you can burn everything else with ease you should be doing progression on that not being a leetist to other players...
SO HM? or normal...you do realise SO is getting a vet version with scaling...
Also not everyone feels like or can be top end but sounds like you are a very self centred individual...
Im happy that they make content more accessible while also introducing hard stuff..until you beat vMoL at v16 you have no right in my view to complain the content is too easy
Show me where I am being a leetist to other players please? I am not calling myself an elite player and the other ones casual noobs. I am just asking for something challenging.
Self centered? Look at your own first comment on this topic.But anyways please show me your farming of all of the above except vMoL b4 you tell me the content is too easy and you dont have skill progression...
I did, and than you come back at me with this?until you beat vMoL at v16 you have no right in my view to complain the content is too easy
I do realise that SO is getting scaled up and I'm actually pretty happy about that one.
You are elitest...you are complaing that the 2 hardest dingeons are being nerfed, but these are mid tier content anyways...if you want a challenge play vMoL as given you farm everything else you have had your worth out of them...
But i suspect you are the kind of player who actually wants these to stay hard to prevent othet players acquiring gear like kena helms...you often see this with wannabe leets..
Just accept you have outgrown mid tier content and stop moaning about limiting progress for mid to lower level players.0 -
Ra'Shtar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some of my favorite screenshots
My opinions and posts are mostly on a PvE setting.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭x5ofspadez wrote: »I know alot of it is the power creep, however it feels like things are getting ever easier. The only "challenging" 4 player content in the game is getting nerfed, (as of PTS 2.4.0) and honestly it feels like if anything they should be getting buffed.
I cant be the only one who thinks this way.
Oh look another "wah mah precious content" thread.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭x5ofspadez wrote: »I know alot of it is the power creep, however it feels like things are getting ever easier. The only "challenging" 4 player content in the game is getting nerfed, (as of PTS 2.4.0) and honestly it feels like if anything they should be getting buffed.
I cant be the only one who thinks this way.
You might not be the only one, but ZOS is not going that route. In an interview they stated, that they watch the data closely of how many people are doing the content, how many get through it and how many abandon it. And based on this data they decide about the difficulty of the content, because they want more people to be able to complete it and not just power players. So don't expect that there will be changes, which make it harder, it is most likely not happening.
ZoS probably thinks I have "abandoned" White-gold tower hundreds of times as hundreds of times the group I have been in has disbanded after killing the first boss because of the ridiculous gear grind in this game.
My apologies to the PvE community looking for challenging fightsEdited by Joy_Division on May 1, 2016 2:24PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »x5ofspadez wrote: »I know alot of it is the power creep, however it feels like things are getting ever easier. The only "challenging" 4 player content in the game is getting nerfed, (as of PTS 2.4.0) and honestly it feels like if anything they should be getting buffed.
I cant be the only one who thinks this way.
You might not be the only one, but ZOS is not going that route. In an interview they stated, that they watch the data closely of how many people are doing the content, how many get through it and how many abandon it. And based on this data they decide about the difficulty of the content, because they want more people to be able to complete it and not just power players. So don't expect that there will be changes, which make it harder, it is most likely not happening.
ZoS probably thinks I have "abandoned" White-gold tower hundreds of times as hundreds of times the group I have been in has disbanded after killing the first boss because of the ridiculous gear grind in this game.
My apologies to the PvE community looking for challenging fights
I don't think that player behavior in pvp zones and pve zones are mixed with each other. Those are different target groups and should be analysed in different ways. I think as well, that ZOS is quite capable to distinguish repetitive abandoning done by one player from abandoning a quest once or twice by different people. They might as well link these results to how frequently these players buy crowns or what their payment method is for ESO+ and their transaction history. This forms a quite clear picture about where they should make changes in order to not frustrate those, from which they gain their main revenues. Furthermore the activities will show them, what players do and how this relates to the time they spend in one session. There are many ways to get information out of this data and make decisions about to where the game and tweaks should be going.0