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Why is the content so easy?
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Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because of these forums ;DUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.3 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Actually,I think they should come out with at least one single DLC that is all about PvP,..with seriously rough delves,dungeons,and ALSO places to do PvP. Like arenas,as the one coming with the DB DLC,only larger.(Although,I dont know if that little arena is for PvP,but it calls out to you to join in the games sort of.)
I would love to see this because it's time for PvP to have it's own thing.And to those who are about to say well they have IC,..no.Not campaigns,but open world,to fight as they want to.Or if they dont,just decline.Duels among other things. But make it all severely rough,for those who really want that challenge.
Why not?
I certainly wouldnt whine if this were to happen.Just because I wouldnt be into it doesnt mean it shouldnt be considered.Edited by Volkodav on May 2, 2016 12:05AM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Well, there are games, which found a solution for this urge for a real challenge - to opt into perma-death - if you ever get killed, that was it - you loose your character - really challenging. Is that what you want?- A real scary challenge?
Edit: could be as well a milder version of it - like not being able to play this character for a week. Then death would have consequences, and it would be a challenge and change the way in which you play. End of rinse and repeat combat with immediate respawn.Edited by Lysette on May 2, 2016 12:14AM2 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Well, there are games, which found a solution for this urge for a real challenge - to opt into perma-death - if you ever get killed, that was it - you loose your character - really challenging. Is that what you want?- A real scary challenge?
To be honest I'm not even such a hardcore player. I mean it's my first MMO. But I guess in the ongoing casual-hardcore division I fit in the hardcore club. The biggest fun I've had in this game was figuring stuff out with my friends. Dying repeatedly, dozens, hundreds of times, experimenting with different skills/strategies in order to overcome the challenge...then figuring the basics out and just working on perfecting it and getting better as a team. Had that in 1.5, I'm not sure if you were playing then but those dungeons felt about right. None of them were impossible but NO ONE would call Spindle or BC easy. You could wipe even with a good team if you weren't paying attention. And that felt...right. Was actually challenging and fun.
I've also had that while 2 manning some of those dungeons for the first time, but now not even that is challenging:/1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Well, there are games, which found a solution for this urge for a real challenge - to opt into perma-death - if you ever get killed, that was it - you loose your character - really challenging. Is that what you want?- A real scary challenge?
To be honest I'm not even such a hardcore player. I mean it's my first MMO. But I guess in the ongoing casual-hardcore division I fit in the hardcore club. The biggest fun I've had in this game was figuring stuff out with my friends. Dying repeatedly, dozens, hundreds of times, experimenting with different skills/strategies in order to overcome the challenge...then figuring the basics out and just working on perfecting it and getting better as a team. Had that in 1.5, I'm not sure if you were playing then but those dungeons felt about right. None of them were impossible but NO ONE would call Spindle or BC easy. You could wipe even with a good team if you weren't paying attention. And that felt...right. Was actually challenging and fun.
I've also had that while 2 manning some of those dungeons for the first time, but now not even that is challenging:/
I'm like you,in that I love experimenting with my skills,and stuff.Also I play around with my gear as well.To find what works well together.
Oh,just an FYI?
There is another club besides those two.It's called the Dedicated Players club.Meaning those who play every day for several hours.Dedicated players.I fall into that one.I'm not at all casual,meaning "lacking commitment or dedication".0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Well, there are games, which found a solution for this urge for a real challenge - to opt into perma-death - if you ever get killed, that was it - you loose your character - really challenging. Is that what you want?- A real scary challenge?
To be honest I'm not even such a hardcore player. I mean it's my first MMO. But I guess in the ongoing casual-hardcore division I fit in the hardcore club. The biggest fun I've had in this game was figuring stuff out with my friends. Dying repeatedly, dozens, hundreds of times, experimenting with different skills/strategies in order to overcome the challenge...then figuring the basics out and just working on perfecting it and getting better as a team. Had that in 1.5, I'm not sure if you were playing then but those dungeons felt about right. None of them were impossible but NO ONE would call Spindle or BC easy. You could wipe even with a good team if you weren't paying attention. And that felt...right. Was actually challenging and fun.
I've also had that while 2 manning some of those dungeons for the first time, but now not even that is challenging:/
IMO as long as death has no consequences, nothing is challenging, because the main ingredient of a challenge is missing - fear and the horror of end of existance - even it would just be for a week, to experience that fear would make it challenging.2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.2 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
3 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you want a challenge in this game, do MoL or go PvP. That's all there is end game wise unfortunately.Susano'o
Zerg Squad1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Well, there are games, which found a solution for this urge for a real challenge - to opt into perma-death - if you ever get killed, that was it - you loose your character - really challenging. Is that what you want?- A real scary challenge?
To be honest I'm not even such a hardcore player. I mean it's my first MMO. But I guess in the ongoing casual-hardcore division I fit in the hardcore club. The biggest fun I've had in this game was figuring stuff out with my friends. Dying repeatedly, dozens, hundreds of times, experimenting with different skills/strategies in order to overcome the challenge...then figuring the basics out and just working on perfecting it and getting better as a team. Had that in 1.5, I'm not sure if you were playing then but those dungeons felt about right. None of them were impossible but NO ONE would call Spindle or BC easy. You could wipe even with a good team if you weren't paying attention. And that felt...right. Was actually challenging and fun.
I've also had that while 2 manning some of those dungeons for the first time, but now not even that is challenging:/
IMO as long as death has no consequences, nothing is challenging, because the main ingredient of a challenge is missing - fear and the horror of end of existance - even it would just be for a week, to experience that fear would make it challenging.
Hm, fair point. I think to me it's more like...a puzzle. Which skills do I need to put on my bar to 2 man Nerien'eth? What order/time should I use them in? How can we kill 4 ads after he picks up the sword without using ultis? How far do I need to streak when kiting Manti 1v1? Which direction should I be streaking in order to not get hit and avoid the stomp aoe? ...it's interesting to figure out and improve, I can also see the thrill the best of the best players find in perfecting their builds and synergizing in order to push crazy numbers and burn everything down within seconds, I guess to me the challenge has to be more about mechanics though.
I like puzzles. Not the "half full moon, full moon, crescent - ohmygosh what order should those be in?!" ones though...and seems like that's basically all we have left now.1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.
What do you mean,.capture mechanics?0 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.Edited by Eshelmen on May 2, 2016 12:34AMPC and PS4 EP only player0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.
What do you mean,.capture mechanics?
If I remember correctly, the IC gets mechanics to actually achieve kind of "ownership" of a sector, with benefits for alliance members in this sector. I think it is kind of a capture the flag mechanics. I did not read into the details of it though, but it made me think of that this is meaningful combat which benefits all alliance members in such a captured sector - and meaningful pvp combat is good, I am not interested in meaningless pvp at all.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.
Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.3 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.
What do you mean,.capture mechanics?
If I remember correctly, the IC gets mechanics to actually achieve kind of "ownership" of a sector, with benefits for alliance members in this sector. I think it is kind of a capture the flag mechanics. I did not read into the details of it though, but it made me think of that this is meaningful combat which benefits all alliance members in such a captured sector - and meaningful pvp combat is good, I am not interested in meaningless pvp at all.
I dont know if there is Capture mechanics in the DB DLC,as it isnt open for PvP. There's just no place to put flags or fight.Its quite tiny,and littered with hills and creatures waiting to kill you at every step.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.
What do you mean,.capture mechanics?
If I remember correctly, the IC gets mechanics to actually achieve kind of "ownership" of a sector, with benefits for alliance members in this sector. I think it is kind of a capture the flag mechanics. I did not read into the details of it though, but it made me think of that this is meaningful combat which benefits all alliance members in such a captured sector - and meaningful pvp combat is good, I am not interested in meaningless pvp at all.
I dont know if there is Capture mechanics in the DB DLC,as it isnt open for PvP. There's just no place to put flags or fight.Its quite tiny,and littered with hills and creatures waiting to kill you at every step.
Sorry, it is not in the gold coast region, but it is a change to the imperial city, which is just released with the DB DLC. When I read about it, I had for the first time the impression, that I might actually want to help my alliance to capture such a district in the IC - I suck at it, for sure, but even a sucker can make a contribution to the group effort.Edited by Lysette on May 2, 2016 12:45AM0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.
What do you mean,.capture mechanics?
If I remember correctly, the IC gets mechanics to actually achieve kind of "ownership" of a sector, with benefits for alliance members in this sector. I think it is kind of a capture the flag mechanics. I did not read into the details of it though, but it made me think of that this is meaningful combat which benefits all alliance members in such a captured sector - and meaningful pvp combat is good, I am not interested in meaningless pvp at all.
I dont know if there is Capture mechanics in the DB DLC,as it isnt open for PvP. There's just no place to put flags or fight.Its quite tiny,and littered with hills and creatures waiting to kill you at every step.
Sorry, it is not in the gold coast region, but it is a change to the imperial city, which is just released with the DB DLC. When I read about it, I had for the first time the impression, that I might actually want to help my alliance to capture such a district in the IC - I suck at it, for sure, but even a sucker can make a contribution to the group effort.
If you dont try,you wont get better,right? And to help is always a welcome thing. 1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Why is it easy and getting easier? Because it's an MMO, and this is how MMOs are now. They want the most amount of people to be able to play (and pay) their game. If content is too challenging (like most people thought of this game at launch) people will leave.
Why risk not having the highest number of players by having challenging content when they could (if they wanted and I wish they would) add in 'nightmare' versions of dungeons and raids. Level up via easy content, progress at max level with nightmare content. Let's just hope ZoS decides to go this route down the road. If everything is too easy, you get the same effect as things being too hard (but on a much smaller scale. the ratio of casuals : elites massively favours the casuals in every MMO)
Ya know,this is a very good idea.I have played games that have a slider for difficulty,or that even have buttons to hit for easy,normal,and hard. The Witcher has that,for an e xample.
Yes, but that is a SINGLE PLAYER game... name other major MMOs that have a difficulty slider? I would say it is impossible because you'd be adjusting content for every single player, ZOS has trouble in Cyrodiil because of the number of calculations that need to be made. Imagine going to a PvE dark anchor and now suddenly the game needs to adjust monsters difficulty for each and every player fighting at the anchor, same with group bosses, etc. It just wouldn't work. Battle-leveling is as close as we'll see to individual adjustments.
I just said that it was a good idea.I didnt say the Witcher was an MMO.
And no need to post in CAPS,..I CAN SEE.
I think it would be cool if the idea would work.I didnt even say it would.
Why shouldn't it be possible - it could be like in other TES games - "very easy" player does double damage, enemies half damage - "very hard" player does half damage, enemý double damage - and "extreme mode" comes with debuffs to speed and an insane decay of armor and weapons.
As I said, the amount of calculations it would have to make would probably be insane, and as we've seen in Cyrodiil, the game cannot handle the amount of calculations it already has to do and that area is battle-leveled. If it were so easy, other MMOs would be doing it, but none are... so clearly it isn't as easy as people like to make it sound.
Nah, that is not an effort at all - those are multipliers, which are anyway applied when scaling is happening. It is not a drain on performance at all. The reason why they don't do it, is as well pretty obvious - look how MMO players think - they want to be the best and have best gear - no one would willingly make himself up to 4 times weaker than the next guy in PvP. They could easily be weaker as well now already - just do not use VR gear, but normal stuff and not buff themselves with all kind of fancy food and champion points - then it would be challenging - but they do not want challeging - they just say they would - but in reality this is just their way to say "I am a 1337, whereas you suck at it" - that is what they mean, when they say "it is too easy".
That's simply not true. I'll just quote myself from another topic here:
I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.
It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!
That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.
And that's what we are asking for. Content that has a learning curve, to keep it interesting.
Try it without armor, then it will be challenging - or not?- What about without high level food, but just normal food?- What about with an average weapon instead of high level gear. There are so many ways to do it with more options than that all have pretty much the same endgame gear - if you want challenging, you can do that yourself - so I doubt, you seriously wánt that.
Edit: or apply just half of your skill points and half of your stats points and half of your champion points, and try it then - I really doubt those claiming to want it challenging would even dare to have a real challenge. If they would, they could already - just like I said it above.
That's a backwards perspective. Just saying you should gimp yourself to make it challenging is not the right way to go in my opinion. That's like saying to ZOS: Thanks for all the hard work you did with creating those end game gear sets, but we don't use them.
You did use them, but now you complain about difficulty - but did you try a hybrid build and apply less points than you have?- I guess, no, because all what you want is just be one of those with endgame gear - like anyone else - this is not heroic at all, a hero is a an average guy with courage, not the top player with the best gear and max amount of skill points. If you want a challenge and be a hero, be an average guy with courage instead of OP weaponry and armor.
You keep talking to me like you know me. What I'm talking about is this:
Start of the game as a noob
Practice and learn to overcome somewhat difficult content
Earn better gear to complete next harder content
Practice and learn to overcome harder content
Earn better gear to complete super hard content
Practice and learn to overcome super hard content
This is what I like and what gaming is for me. Right now, we're at a stand still because there's no new super hard content except for vMoL.
All of this wouldn't be a problem if they gave us two new dungeons like vWGT and vICP were in the beginning. But they didn't.
At some point you just have to get over the idea that the content isnt working for you.The top end will always be limited because ZOS wont just keep making things harder and harder to suit some people,while leaving out the majority of people who arent able to do it.
They want to keep their players from leaving because it is too hard for them.Most people arent into all that stuff about the best gear,best stats,and higher and higher challenges.Some are,but not the majority.
Which is why we don't even ask for the overall content to be made harder.
We'd just like to have at last ONE challenging small group instance in the game
Well, there are games, which found a solution for this urge for a real challenge - to opt into perma-death - if you ever get killed, that was it - you loose your character - really challenging. Is that what you want?- A real scary challenge?
To be honest I'm not even such a hardcore player. I mean it's my first MMO. But I guess in the ongoing casual-hardcore division I fit in the hardcore club. The biggest fun I've had in this game was figuring stuff out with my friends. Dying repeatedly, dozens, hundreds of times, experimenting with different skills/strategies in order to overcome the challenge...then figuring the basics out and just working on perfecting it and getting better as a team. Had that in 1.5, I'm not sure if you were playing then but those dungeons felt about right. None of them were impossible but NO ONE would call Spindle or BC easy. You could wipe even with a good team if you weren't paying attention. And that felt...right. Was actually challenging and fun.
I've also had that while 2 manning some of those dungeons for the first time, but now not even that is challenging:/
IMO as long as death has no consequences, nothing is challenging, because the main ingredient of a challenge is missing - fear and the horror of end of existance - even it would just be for a week, to experience that fear would make it challenging.
Hm, fair point. I think to me it's more like...a puzzle. Which skills do I need to put on my bar to 2 man Nerien'eth? What order/time should I use them in? How can we kill 4 ads after he picks up the sword without using ultis? How far do I need to streak when kiting Manti 1v1? Which direction should I be streaking in order to not get hit and avoid the stomp aoe? ...it's interesting to figure out and improve, I can also see the thrill the best of the best players find in perfecting their builds and synergizing in order to push crazy numbers and burn everything down within seconds, I guess to me the challenge has to be more about mechanics though.
I like puzzles. Not the "half full moon, full moon, crescent - ohmygosh what order should those be in?!" ones though...and seems like that's basically all we have left now.
Ok, I see where you are coming from and what you enjoy. It is different to what I see as challenging, for sure. To me the challenge is to stay alive, I hate it to die in a game - that is why I do pretty much not play first person shooters, because it is build in, that you die often and try out different ways (basically that what you prefer). I am more the type which likes the new Fallout 4 survival mode, with consequences to getting killed or neglect your health - with diseases, permanent care about what to eat, what to drink, when to use chemicals, which have side-effects, stuff like that is a challenge for me. I want to survive and every death, regardless of with or without consequences, is for me "having lost". I am playing EVE since 2008, a pvp-everywhere game - and I did not die a single time, I have lost 2 ships in all of those years, but I never lost my clone.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The point is content costs money to develop. They keep on eye on what content gets done etc and look at if hardly anyone is using it why make anything else like that? In fact why dont we make it a little easier so that more people can enjoy it? We spent money on this and hardly anyone is using it. how can we change that?
Thats how the meetings go basically.
And their logic happens to make a lot of business sense.
I think as well that they are actually trying to make things better for the players - see those changes coming up for the IC - they saw, that it is not utilized like they expected and they made changes (in the upcoming DB DLC) to have capture mechanics, which benefit a group. They made changes so that someone who wants to explore the IC solo, is less likely to be trapped by NPCs. It is not as if they would not react to what is going on, they just communicate their efforts not well enough IMO.
What do you mean,.capture mechanics?
If I remember correctly, the IC gets mechanics to actually achieve kind of "ownership" of a sector, with benefits for alliance members in this sector. I think it is kind of a capture the flag mechanics. I did not read into the details of it though, but it made me think of that this is meaningful combat which benefits all alliance members in such a captured sector - and meaningful pvp combat is good, I am not interested in meaningless pvp at all.
I dont know if there is Capture mechanics in the DB DLC,as it isnt open for PvP. There's just no place to put flags or fight.Its quite tiny,and littered with hills and creatures waiting to kill you at every step.
Sorry, it is not in the gold coast region, but it is a change to the imperial city, which is just released with the DB DLC. When I read about it, I had for the first time the impression, that I might actually want to help my alliance to capture such a district in the IC - I suck at it, for sure, but even a sucker can make a contribution to the group effort.
If you dont try,you wont get better,right? And to help is always a welcome thing.
Yes, that is the spirit of it - help my alliance, even it is just a bit, and get some experience while I do that.0 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I tired that and the game is still mind numbly easy.It doesn't help at all.phaneub17_ESO wrote: »You could try to, you know, reset all your Champion points and not spend a single one. Just leave them open without allocating a single one.
Downgrade your weapons and armour then, it makes a big difference!
PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
529 people have also earned this badge.0 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.
Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.
MMOs are all the same. I don't think you understand that.
Same style of quests. Same type of leveling and progression involved. You can sugar coat it how you want. But it's still an MMO. And in MMOs generally, all content until end game is basically a tutorial. The only difference here is the content in ESO is pretty much available at any point. Doesn't mean the difficulty stays the same.Edited by Eshelmen on May 2, 2016 1:07AMPC and PS4 EP only player0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.
Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.
MMOs are all the same. I don't think you understand that.
Same style of quests. Same type of leveling and progression involved. You can sugar coat it how you want. But it's still an MMO. And in MMOs generally, all content until end game is basically a tutorial.
Well,then why do they add "tutorials" along the way at the beginning. Those tutorials are quite different than gameplay.They are black pop up boxes with information only."Content" isnt like that at all. "Content" is what you play,not what you are instructed to do.In a tutorial you arent given choices,nor quests,nor delves.You have no interaction.You are just given information.Period.This is NOT "content".0 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.
Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.
MMOs are all the same. I don't think you understand that.
Same style of quests. Same type of leveling and progression involved. You can sugar coat it how you want. But it's still an MMO. And in MMOs generally, all content until end game is basically a tutorial.
Well,then why do they add "tutorials" along the way at the beginning. Those tutorials are quite different than gameplay.They are black pop up boxes with information only."Content" isnt like that at all. "Content" is what you play,not what you are instructed to do.In a tutorial you arent given choices,nor quests,nor delves.You have no interaction.You are just given information.Period.This is NOT "content".
Correct me if I'm wrong but, skill points?
You're telling me a level 10 generally has as many options as a VR16? I'm talking available abilities, unlocks etc...
The choices/options available are extremely limited at the early stage of this game.
Making it basically a tutorial.Edited by Eshelmen on May 2, 2016 1:19AMPC and PS4 EP only player0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.
Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.
MMOs are all the same. I don't think you understand that.
Same style of quests. Same type of leveling and progression involved. You can sugar coat it how you want. But it's still an MMO. And in MMOs generally, all content until end game is basically a tutorial.
Well,then why do they add "tutorials" along the way at the beginning. Those tutorials are quite different than gameplay.They are black pop up boxes with information only."Content" isnt like that at all. "Content" is what you play,not what you are instructed to do.In a tutorial you arent given choices,nor quests,nor delves.You have no interaction.You are just given information.Period.This is NOT "content".
Correct me if I'm wrong but, skill points?
You're telling me a level 10 generally has as many options as a VR16? I'm talking available abilities, unlocks etc...
Exactly.
Huh? That still isnt a tutorial.Do you not know what one is? It is simply an instruction book,guide,or black box on a screen.It has nothing to do with skill points or options.It only tells you what the basic things are.How to begin something.
Exactly.Edited by Volkodav on May 2, 2016 1:26AM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The answer is a third tier of difficulty that doesn't provide additional awards (other than increased drop rates) from the current Vet versions. That way people can't complain about gear, achievements, titles, whatever.
The problem with the suggestion of running dungeons naked or without CP becomes, what's the point? We worked hard the CP cap and get Gold gear to use at end game. If the only solution is to not use the incentives you worked for, the system is broken.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's an MMO. All quests/conent up until level cap are basically a tutorial. End game stuff is where the challenge part takes off, or is atleast supposed too.
Tutorials are usually the easier part of the game.
Then you did not understand what ESO is about - what you call "tutorial" is the main content.
MMOs are all the same. I don't think you understand that.
Same style of quests. Same type of leveling and progression involved. You can sugar coat it how you want. But it's still an MMO. And in MMOs generally, all content until end game is basically a tutorial. The only difference here is the content in ESO is pretty much available at any point. Doesn't mean the difficulty stays the same.
You really don't understand the motivation behind ESO - sorry, but ESO is not the typical MMO, it is an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG - ask Mr. Firor, he said it very clearly. You can ignore that of course, but it will not change to where ESO is heading.Edited by Lysette on May 2, 2016 1:27AM1