Bans Weren't For Surveys In Banks. They Were For VERY High Ratios Of Mats Per Survey

joker0137

I tend to keep some in the bank because I have no intention of travelling to that location anytime soon.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is no way a legit person could be banned. This isnt something that could be done on accident. This is something you had to do purposely. I do not buy for a second that anyone was innocent and banned on accident. How do you accidentally get 500 mats from one survey? There has to be action on your part or you will only receive the first set of nodes. So not buying this Im innocent! line.

Are you trolling ?

I'm going to assume not and carry on regardless

ZOS have banned at least 1 person who didn't exploit and didn't receive 500 mats from one survey...it's a mistake and they need to investigate it.

Person who SAYS they didnt exploit. Everyone in jail claims they are innocent.

Yes just like I claimed I didn't steal anything when I was younger. The cameras proved otherwise.

Inklings

Dominoid wrote: »

Source

Hello, we do not generally discuss suspensions or other player penalties. However, it is not true, suspensions are for simply having a crafting survey in the bank. The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials. And no one who has recovered from a survey 500 resources can tell me that he had simply gotten lucky. I do not exclude that mistakes could be made. It's the opposite. But not everyone who shouts, is innocent.

What he is saying is the same thing Dominiod. Having an extra survey in your banker means you got to loot more of the same node back to back. Their script couldnt tell if you were using the same one or a new one after you walked away and came right back. If you harvest one of these nodes twice in a row cause of a stored survey you gain just over a 100 mats at once. Their parameters were no were near 500 on this. Mistakes were made like Kai said happens. In the next few days, once the weekend is over, they will come out and admit it just like they did with the dupe bug.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Really happy ZOS keeps and tracks data.

Just a shame they can't analyse it without making mistakes

The people who were wrongfully banned can submit a ticket and ZOS can look into it and if they truly didn't exploit then they will not be banned anymore.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

(there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

Tryxus

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

(there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

It's possible. I mean, a full inventory and quickly depositing a lot of stuff to make room for the survey rewards, you could've accidentally deposited the survey, and then later on be like: "I thought I alrdy did this survey?/Where did this survey come from"

Exploiters should be punished yeah, but those who triggered it by accident or realized that it was an exploit and stopped doing it after the accident shouldn't receive the banhammer for it

And like every company, ZOS makes the occasional mistake too

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Tryxus wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

(there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

It's possible. I mean, a full inventory and quickly depositing a lot of stuff to make room for the survey rewards, you could've accidentally deposited the survey, and then later on be like: "I thought I alrdy did this survey?/Where did this survey come from"

Exploiters should be punished yeah, but those who triggered it by accident or realized that it was an exploit and stopped doing it after the accident shouldn't receive the banhammer for it

And like every company, ZOS makes the occasional mistake too

I agree the people accidentally banned is not good and I also agree that there is a chance to do it on accident but to continue to do it is not an accident. So yes if they stopped after doing it once they should not be banned.

JamilaRaj

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

But I can honestly believe ZOS would produce a flawed script to retrieve cheaters (abusing another flaw) from the database.

Arkadius

JamilaRaj wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

But I can honestly believe ZOS would produce a flawed script to retrieve cheaters (absuing another flaw) from database.

This game is full of bugs. Why should a script, they created within a few hours, be an exception...

Seraseth

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

I totally agree and 72 hours for a confirmed exploit isn't anyway near long enough, now if only they could do it without banning a few innocents as well then that would be perfect.

Yeah, should start with removing all those mats, and a chunk of gold for good measure for all of them. Then add the 3day, week, lifetime bans, based on first offense etc.

Losing money and a 3 day ban is fine for a first offense, but someone with a history of it should have the book thrown at them.

Though I think removing the mats/money part is waaay more important than a couple days off, otherwise exploiters start seeing it as hundreds of thousands of gold for a couple days off, not a bad price.

joker0137

Xiana wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

But I can honestly believe ZOS would produce a flawed script to retrieve cheaters (absuing another flaw) from database.

This game is full of bugs. Why should a script, they created within a few hours, be an exception...

That's a dam good point!

Thevampirenight

Well thing is they expect their player base to be able to be mature enough not to exploit. Duping has been something they have thrown the book at people for, mainly so they can tell the player base thats not tolerated and maybe the reason why they kept it into the game at launch to see who would exploit it and kick them out. But on the other hand Just don't dupe and don't exploit game breaking/economy breaking bugs and you should be fine
. Some might have been banned and it was glitched and this happens, this is possibly why they are only doing a 72 hour ban wave. But I assume they got a lot that were really exploiting this glitch and thats the reason for the bans. Innocents will always get caught up in a war, in real life. This can be true with mmo playing and anything else you do online that has exploits and cheats.

ZOS_AlanG

If someone feels they have been erroneously banned, for any reason, they should submit an appeal here.

It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.

For those discussing this matter, please bear in mind that this is a sensitive topic. Blanket statements that anyone appealing is a fraud aren't helpful. If you suspect that some people complaining about bans aren't being truthful, that's fine, but over-generalizing matters is needlessly aggressive. Let's work to bring the tension down, rather than escalating it.

I number of posts have been removed from this thread. Additionally, we will be consolidating the discussion of this matter into this thread.

Svalinn

@ZOS_AlanG why don't you guys just write an official post sying: "the bans were made for this reason"... at least everyone will go and answer to that post instead of creating 1.000 different ones and after the issue will be forgotten you can easely block/delete it.

Turelus

Tryxus wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Accidents happen:

- A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
- ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

There is no way to trigger this by accident. So there was noone banned for exploiting that didnt not just exploit but multiple times on the same survey. Its ONE survey and you get 500 mats from it then auto ban. There is just no wya possible for them to accidentally do this over and over and over. Come on man.

So I take it you never acidentally deposited smth in your bank that you didn't mean to?

Not enough times to farm 500 materials.

Inklings

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

If someone feels they have been erroneously banned, for any reason, they should submit an appeal here.

It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.

For those discussing this matter, please bear in mind that this is a sensitive topic. Blanket statements that anyone appealing is a fraud aren't helpful. If you suspect that some people complaining about bans aren't being truthful, that's fine, but over-generalizing matters is needlessly aggressive. Let's work to bring the tension down, rather than escalating it.

I number of posts have been removed from this thread. Additionally, we will be consolidating the discussion of this matter into this thread.

We need more then just this. There is an obvious flaw with the recent disciplinary actions that were handed out, just like there was with the dupe bug bannings. Your past history on stuff like this shows you often make mistakes over this issue. You need to get some dialog in here with people who actually handle this stuff. A 40$ item being the source of innocents being caught in a mass ban/suspension wave is so unprofessional. Also the link you supply at the top is only regenerating generic responses and its not helping the frustration level of those of us that know you messed up and suspending a lot of innocent people!

Svalinn

Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

Inklings

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

If someone feels they have been erroneously banned, for any reason, they should submit an appeal here.

It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.

For those discussing this matter, please bear in mind that this is a sensitive topic. Blanket statements that anyone appealing is a fraud aren't helpful. If you suspect that some people complaining about bans aren't being truthful, that's fine, but over-generalizing matters is needlessly aggressive. Let's work to bring the tension down, rather than escalating it.

I number of posts have been removed from this thread. Additionally, we will be consolidating the discussion of this matter into this thread.

We need more then just this. There is an obvious flaw with the recent disciplinary actions that were handed out, just like there was with the dupe bug bannings. Your past history on stuff like this shows you often make mistakes regarding this stuff. You need to get some dialog in here with people who actually handle this stuff. A 40$ item being the source of innocents being caught in a mass ban/suspension wave is so unprofessional. Also the link you supply at the top is only regenerating generic responses and its not helping the frustration level of those of us that know you messed up and suspending a lot of innocent people!

Tryxus

Turelus wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Accidents happen:

- A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
- ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

There is no way to trigger this by accident. So there was noone banned for exploiting that didnt not just exploit but multiple times on the same survey. Its ONE survey and you get 500 mats from it then auto ban. There is just no wya possible for them to accidentally do this over and over and over. Come on man.

So I take it you never acidentally deposited smth in your bank that you didn't mean to?

Not enough times to farm 500 materials.

Well yeah A single accident is ok, but 20 accidents...

... in a row...

Stendarr show you mercy

babylon

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

If someone feels they have been erroneously banned, for any reason, they should submit an appeal here.

It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.

For those discussing this matter, please bear in mind that this is a sensitive topic. Blanket statements that anyone appealing is a fraud aren't helpful. If you suspect that some people complaining about bans aren't being truthful, that's fine, but over-generalizing matters is needlessly aggressive. Let's work to bring the tension down, rather than escalating it.

I number of posts have been removed from this thread. Additionally, we will be consolidating the discussion of this matter into this thread.

Buffler

So many people making judgements who have got the exploit wrong. Im fed up of explaining it but moving surveys between different characters via your bank was not it. There is nothing wrong with doing that.

ElderBugOffline

guyz cmon you really think real people will look at your tickets?

like in any other big game company, ZOS hires some firms in the 3rd world countries like India

and all you can got from them - its copy-past messages, because they even didnt know ENGLISH

[Edited to remove image]

Svalinn

ElderBugOffline wrote: »

guyz cmon you really think real people will look at your tickets?

Well every time i had a problem with the game i received an answer from a real person the day after sending the ticket

Buffler

Svalinn wrote: »

ElderBugOffline wrote: »

guyz cmon you really think real people will look at your tickets?

Well every time i had a problem with the game i received an answer from a real people the day after

Same

DaveMoeDee

Tryxus wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Accidents happen:

- A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
- ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

There is no way to trigger this by accident. So there was noone banned for exploiting that didnt not just exploit but multiple times on the same survey. Its ONE survey and you get 500 mats from it then auto ban. There is just no wya possible for them to accidentally do this over and over and over. Come on man.

So I take it you never acidentally deposited smth in your bank that you didn't mean to?

20 times in one evening?

ADarklore

As police and judge's favorite line states, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." Players CLEARLY knew they were doing something wrong, they knew that surveys weren't supposed to work like that, and yet they were taking advantage of it. I have no sympathy for players being banned because those are the same type who would be looking for, and jumping on, any type of exploit they could find. Innocent players don't do things like this, cheaters do.

DaveMoeDee

Drungly wrote: »

The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.

That explanation is not precise enough.

The criteria needs to be the number of times they harvested from a writ node versus the number of surveys consumed. People can run around Wrothgar harvesting nodes and that is allowed. You can't evaluate inventory. Inventory is irrelevant. They had to compare transactions.

HxC

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

(there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

goatlyonesub17_ESO

llSRRll wrote: "Love how you visit a prison and every one of the inmates will tell you they are innocent lol, seems like thats going on here and part of human nature. I do writs everyday and get surveys just about everyday and didnt get banned bc I didnt cheat. People will lie their asses off when they know they got caught smh."

Some prisoners won't lie to you. They'll admit that they did it, express contrition, and hope to become a better person. They might be playing to their upcoming parole hearing, but at least they're being honest. On the other hand, a lot of prisoners do claim to be innocent, and perhaps 10% of them are telling the truth, whereas the other 90% are lying.

I didn't even know there was a way to make surveys yield so hugely. It's never happened to me. I'm not sure that I'd have thought of it as cheating if it did, since I wouldn't know how to trigger the unusually large number of mats.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: "Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference."

Laws are published, so that everyone can (if they make the effort) know in advance what is legal and what is a crime. You don't have to GUESS, and then go to jail if your guess was wrong. Also, it is a principle in most civilized states that there are no ex-post-facto laws. An act is a crime only if there was a law prohibiting it at the time it was committed. Otherwise, it's legal.

Secret laws are passed only by dictatorships, and there is no moral requirement to obey them. And since you had no way to know that they even exist, you probably won't obey them, meaning that the state can arrest you, or not, upon prevailing political whims.

Korah_Eaglecry

HxC wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

(there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.