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Bans Weren't For Surveys In Banks. They Were For VERY High Ratios Of Mats Per Survey

  • Verbalinkontinenz
    Verbalinkontinenz
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    why cant people jsut read...
    ROFL i was reading the first page of responses

    sry but en forum just is ridiculous and full of trolls. just anybody could be so merciful and close this whole forum.
    Edited by Verbalinkontinenz on May 1, 2016 11:38PM
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    I agree I dont believe this was some nefarious plot by ZOS to sell banker assistants.

    Come on now. Ive seen enough of your post, you are usually all in on this is a company and companies do stuff to make money. What is the down side of this evil plot?

    Some cheaters pay some extra money? And no one else even blinks an eye. Heck look at this thread, even the people wrongly accused no one believes. So who would believe that they would do this?

    Even if they did do this what did they do wrong? Again ive seen enough of your post to know that you are ok with bugs and problems and giving them time to fix them. Say they did release this with a know bug. How is it any different then the other known bugs they release content with?

    It isnt really. Except for this time maybe they make a couple exrea bucks off people who want to cheat. Heck we could even raise the price over what might seem reasonable for that item. What company wouldnt see that as a win/win?

    Companies do LEGAL stuff to make money. Slandering them and accusing them of purposely making these do what they did is just tin foil hat stuff. They made plenty off the 5000 crown price.

    I also think its hilarious you compare an economy breaking bug people are exploiting with ither bugs that take time to fix. Its hardly the same thing at all.
    Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on May 1, 2016 11:39PM
  • Arkadius
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    A friend of mine has been banned falsely too and now has been unbanned and even compensated. People should stop claiming that everyone who got banned is an exploiter.
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
    vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    I agree I dont believe this was some nefarious plot by ZOS to sell banker assistants.

    Come on now. Ive seen enough of your post, you are usually all in on this is a company and companies do stuff to make money. What is the down side of this evil plot?

    Some cheaters pay some extra money? And no one else even blinks an eye. Heck look at this thread, even the people wrongly accused no one believes. So who would believe that they would do this?

    Even if they did do this what did they do wrong? Again ive seen enough of your post to know that you are ok with bugs and problems and giving them time to fix them. Say they did release this with a know bug. How is it any different then the other known bugs they release content with?

    It isnt really. Except for this time maybe they make a couple exrea bucks off people who want to cheat. Heck we could even raise the price over what might seem reasonable for that item. What company wouldnt see that as a win/win?

    Companies do LEGAL stuff to make money. Slandering them and accusing them of purposely making these do what they did is just tin foil hat stuff. They made plenty off the 5000 crown price.

    I also think its hilarious you compare an economy breaking bug people are exploiting with ither bugs that take time to fix. Its hardly the same thing at all.

    Economy breaking bug? All they have to do is reduce the drop rate of the yellow droppies from refining for a bit, and the problem solves itself. A little tweak here a little tweak here and the dreaded economy collapse is averted. Much easier then in real life. It is much easier when you can control the supply and demand. Shhh it is just bad rng nothing has changed! Nothing to see here! No I swear by all that is holy, Onyxia deep breaths more.

    Dont all bugs take time to fix? I guess I'm confused by that.

    You also bring up legal? What would be exactly not legal about what they did? If they did it. They release stuff all the time with known bugs. How would this this be any different? So maybe this known bug, if it was known, resulted in some more sales for an over priced dodad. They didn't tell people to go cheat with it. I mean game companies remove content from finished games so they can sell it later as dlc. Heck some might even hold off on delivering promised content as they make the free to play move so they can sell it later. No I'm sure they were just all tied up getting ready for console release. Of course why wouldn't they be? If we make sure this content isn't out free for the PC and we get the consoles out first we can sell it to both!

    Oh yes fear the power of my tin foil hat and my ability to see the worst in everything! I am the life of every party I go to... Right up to the time they politely ask me to leave.
  • ZOS_DaryaK
    ZOS_DaryaK
    admin
    Removed posts that contributed nothing to the discussion. Please remember our forum rules and refrain from replying for the sole purpose of "bumping" a thread.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Dredlord
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    kylewwefan wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*

    Actually, that's what I did yesterday.

    I had a bunch of surveys piled up, and I've moved a bunch to mules because I haven't had the time to go harvest them. When ZOS announced that they'll fix this exploit, I had guessed (incorrectly) that they'll fix it by making it character-bound (seemed like the easiest fix to me). If that was to be their solution, then I can't have my surveys sitting on a mule because then they'll be stuck on that character.

    So I relocated all my surveys back to my main and spent a couple of hours collecting the mats from all of them (including some duplicate surveys that were still in their containers).

    And everything's fine. I went on a legitimate survey spree yesterday because I thought that they might make it character-bound, and nothing happened.

    Finally, I do know a few people who did get suspended (nobody is being banned, BTW; it's all 3-day suspensions), and AFAIK, there were no false positives in any of those suspensions.

    (I'm not saying that their system is 100% fool-proof; I'm just saying that with the few data points that I do have access to, there were no false positives amongst them.)

    I'm glad no one is getting permenantly banned, but suspension does suck over the weekend. seems wrong to do to someone that has a 5000 crown banker....these are the people zenimax needs to keep happy after all....

    Yeah lets keep the cheaters happy because they spent cash...

    Great outlook on the matter.

    Sounds like the ultimate pay to win, if i buy crowns i can cheat?

    Give your head a shake buddy.
  • idk
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    Egonieser wrote: »
    I translated the German thread with google, and apart from the mindbogglingly bad translation, looks like many people have gotten the banhammer and lots of shouting going on there.
    Guess we'll see.

    It's normal for players that get banned to complain even when they're banned for actions that are so obviously an exploit. Few get banned accidentally.

    Let those that cheated go find a new game.
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    I agree I dont believe this was some nefarious plot by ZOS to sell banker assistants.

    Come on now. Ive seen enough of your post, you are usually all in on this is a company and companies do stuff to make money. What is the down side of this evil plot?

    Some cheaters pay some extra money? And no one else even blinks an eye. Heck look at this thread, even the people wrongly accused no one believes. So who would believe that they would do this?

    Even if they did do this what did they do wrong? Again ive seen enough of your post to know that you are ok with bugs and problems and giving them time to fix them. Say they did release this with a know bug. How is it any different then the other known bugs they release content with?

    It isnt really. Except for this time maybe they make a couple exrea bucks off people who want to cheat. Heck we could even raise the price over what might seem reasonable for that item. What company wouldnt see that as a win/win?

    Companies do LEGAL stuff to make money. Slandering them and accusing them of purposely making these do what they did is just tin foil hat stuff. They made plenty off the 5000 crown price.

    I also think its hilarious you compare an economy breaking bug people are exploiting with ither bugs that take time to fix. Its hardly the same thing at all.

    Economy breaking bug? All they have to do is reduce the drop rate of the yellow droppies from refining for a bit, and the problem solves itself. A little tweak here a little tweak here and the dreaded economy collapse is averted. Much easier then in real life. It is much easier when you can control the supply and demand. Shhh it is just bad rng nothing has changed! Nothing to see here! No I swear by all that is holy, Onyxia deep breaths more.

    Dont all bugs take time to fix? I guess I'm confused by that.

    You also bring up legal? What would be exactly not legal about what they did? If they did it. They release stuff all the time with known bugs. How would this this be any different? So maybe this known bug, if it was known, resulted in some more sales for an over priced dodad. They didn't tell people to go cheat with it. I mean game companies remove content from finished games so they can sell it later as dlc. Heck some might even hold off on delivering promised content as they make the free to play move so they can sell it later. No I'm sure they were just all tied up getting ready for console release. Of course why wouldn't they be? If we make sure this content isn't out free for the PC and we get the consoles out first we can sell it to both!

    Oh yes fear the power of my tin foil hat and my ability to see the worst in everything! I am the life of every party I go to... Right up to the time they politely ask me to leave.

    Was far easier obviously for them to take the server down for a couple hours. I dont know about legalities Im not a lawyer but it certainly would be unethical to do that. Im sure some kind of fraud would be involved.
  • Inarre
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    Oh I am relieved. I can go do my surveys now :) Thank you @Dominoid
  • OrangeTheCat
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    ZOS_AlanG wrote: »
    If someone feels they have been erroneously banned, for any reason, they should submit an appeal here.

    It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.

    For those discussing this matter, please bear in mind that this is a sensitive topic. Blanket statements that anyone appealing is a fraud aren't helpful. If you suspect that some people complaining about bans aren't being truthful, that's fine, but over-generalizing matters is needlessly aggressive. Let's work to bring the tension down, rather than escalating it.

    I number of posts have been removed from this thread. Additionally, we will be consolidating the discussion of this matter into this thread.

    In other words, stop acting like children.
  • Pallmor
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    Nénlindë wrote: »
    Very few if any legit players are banned at all. It's almost always exploiters/cheaters who plead their case claiming they've done nothing wrong.

    Zenimax can track every single item you ever pick up... ;)

    I would cite the case of U.S. vs. Dindu Nuffin as conclusive precedent that anyone proclaiming their innocence must, in fact, be innocent.
  • rotaugen454
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    Zos can hit me with a 3 day ban if it nets me 1500 crowns. Heck, give me a one month ban and 15,000 crowns. :)

    I'd be curious to see what the actually guilty/falsely accused ratio was, but I doubt it will be published.
    "Get off my lawn!"
  • Lunaris_Tenebrae
    So now that ZoS is back from their weekend will you be making any public statements about the wrongful suspension of many of your player's accounts due to this automated suspension system, and the lack of support offered by your customer support staff?

    My account was included in the suspension even though I did not participate in any exploits, I find it insulting and depressing to be accused of cheating and called a liar by the community in general, since the time lost can't be recovered I feel an apology is the least you at Zenimax can do.
  • Nibo
    Nibo
    Soul Shriven
    I wholeheartedly agree. And you are not alone.
  • HxC
    HxC
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    At least they have not remove anything from our inventories, i will keep trying to contact the customer support after 3 days and 4 mails sent i haven't received any reply from them.

    Ps: suspend because i gather 174 raw ancestor silk. lol
    Edited by HxC on May 2, 2016 10:33PM
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • GarnetFire17
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    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    I think it's perfectly fair advantage actually. what is not fair is that zos effed up the game to allow it happen.
  • GarnetFire17
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    Drungly wrote: »
    The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

    Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.


    Why is that "wrong?" Its a game. if the game allows you do it, than who's fault is that? It's just like in contract law. When the person who writes the contract screws up in the wording in drafting it, and the other party takes advantage the suing party that drafted the contract loses, because they had a chance to get it right the first time.
  • babylon
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    Drungly wrote: »
    The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

    Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.


    Why is that "wrong?" Its a game. if the game allows you do it, than who's fault is that? It's just like in contract law. When the person who writes the contract screws up in the wording in drafting it, and the other party takes advantage the suing party that drafted the contract loses, because they had a chance to get it right the first time.

    Well it's like when back in the day before anyone wrote down in law that murder was wrong and will be punished. Before then, if someone killed your mother I'm pretty sure that despite there not being a law about it, you would have felt and known deep down that they were wrong for killing your mother, and probably should be punished despite there not being a law about it yet.
  • Roymachine
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    Drungly wrote: »
    The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

    Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.


    Why is that "wrong?" Its a game. if the game allows you do it, than who's fault is that? It's just like in contract law. When the person who writes the contract screws up in the wording in drafting it, and the other party takes advantage the suing party that drafted the contract loses, because they had a chance to get it right the first time.

    You can argue your points all day, but in the end I can guarantee you that every single person who did this knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that what they were doing was an exploit and abusing a bug. Was it introduced into the game by ZOS? Yeah. Bugs happen. Which is why you agree to the Terms of Service that explicitly say not to abuse bugs. It is not a statement promising that there will be bugs, but, to use your words, it is a contract that you agreed to before playing the game.

    But please do continue trying to say it was ZOS's fault and not that of the players themselves. It is entertaining.
  • rotaugen454
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    I had chased down and finished Grand Master Harvester not too long ago. I finished before they ran this filter, although I haven't done ANY surveys in a long time, so not sure I would have been caught up in it anyway. If it would have got me 1500 crowns, I don't think I would have even been upset.
    "Get off my lawn!"
  • Elsonso
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    .
    Roymachine wrote: »
    Drungly wrote: »
    The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

    Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.


    Why is that "wrong?" Its a game. if the game allows you do it, than who's fault is that? It's just like in contract law. When the person who writes the contract screws up in the wording in drafting it, and the other party takes advantage the suing party that drafted the contract loses, because they had a chance to get it right the first time.

    You can argue your points all day, but in the end I can guarantee you that every single person who did this knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that what they were doing was an exploit and abusing a bug. Was it introduced into the game by ZOS? Yeah. Bugs happen. Which is why you agree to the Terms of Service that explicitly say not to abuse bugs. It is not a statement promising that there will be bugs, but, to use your words, it is a contract that you agreed to before playing the game.

    But please do continue trying to say it was ZOS's fault and not that of the players themselves. It is entertaining.

    Agree. There was nothing accidental about this exploit, especially not after the 10th time.
    Edited by Elsonso on May 3, 2016 2:57PM
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Jay_Gally
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    TOS has always been a blanket statement relinquishing them of liability for nearly anything and everything. We get into semantics, what some may consider "abusing bugs" others may think of it as taking advantage of a loop hole or being resourceful. If their servers go down are we to receive some sort of compensation? Perspective determines guilt.

    I'd much rather ZOS focus on game crashes in the middle of pvp battles and the loading screen that says "this may be an unusually long load time". It's not unusual when it's frequent.
  • Ch4mpTW
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    I'm honestly confused by this forum sometimes... For quite some time I've seen threads about how the economy is way too askew, and how prices for materials are way too high and ridiculous. You know, the typical run of the mill complaints about high-prices... But now that people are selling things cheaper, and at a more affordable price... People are complaining that these alleged/supposed exploiters are making a pay day off of them, by selling the same stuff that a lot of you all were saying was too expensive cheaper... Is there any pleasing you all?

    And why is it Tuesday, and people are still up in arms about this? Zenimax made their decision. There's nothing any of us can do about it, except for hoping that things be handled a bit differently in the future. So what's the point...? To vent about people who've amassed large amounts of gold and materials, and now have their accounts under the radar of ZOS, and are selling us things cheaper than what they once were...? Huh? Can someone enlighten me, please? ?_?
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on May 3, 2016 3:01PM
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    babylon wrote: »
    Drungly wrote: »
    The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

    Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.


    Why is that "wrong?" Its a game. if the game allows you do it, than who's fault is that? It's just like in contract law. When the person who writes the contract screws up in the wording in drafting it, and the other party takes advantage the suing party that drafted the contract loses, because they had a chance to get it right the first time.

    Well it's like when back in the day before anyone wrote down in law that murder was wrong and will be punished. Before then, if someone killed your mother I'm pretty sure that despite there not being a law about it, you would have felt and known deep down that they were wrong for killing your mother, and probably should be punished despite there not being a law about it yet.

    Actually before there was written law and during people were pretty barbaric. The first written law was the code hammurabi made in babylonian times. That time was fraught with war and people killing each other.
    Edited by Inarre on May 3, 2016 3:09PM
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