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Bans Weren't For Surveys In Banks. They Were For VERY High Ratios Of Mats Per Survey

  • Knightpanther
    Knightpanther
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    If you cant do the time don't do the crime.

    Be safe
  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
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    If you cant do the time don't do the crime.

    Be safe

    72 hrs, and hopefully their exploit earned mats removed
    "The Oak's Promise: stand strong, stay true, and shelter all"
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU/DC
  • Knightpanther
    Knightpanther
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    If you cant do the time don't do the crime.

    Be safe

    72 hrs, and hopefully their exploit earned mats removed

    And there lies the problem, 72 hours is nothing, unless folks get banned for life they will continue to find more ways to cheat.

    Be safe
  • zyk
    zyk
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    And there lies the problem, 72 hours is nothing, unless folks get banned for life they will continue to find more ways to cheat.

    Be safe

    What's even worse is that hundreds or thousands of potential cheaters will read this and consider exploiting the next major bug to be worth the risk.

    We saw this happen in PVP. ZOS turned a blind eye to cheating and now it's culturally acceptable for top tier players to exploit. Players in the top guilds do it shamelessly and lol it off.
  • maboleth
    maboleth
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    I did this, sort of. I got the survey that I didn't use, but then in Enchanter's package I received yet another survey of the same region. Since I couldn't have 2 surveys in my inventory, I have used one and then after harvesting, I opened the box and used it again.

    I thought this was a mere coincidence that I used wisely, not an exploit. I didn't get punished though, but if I was, I'd feel totally innocent. I never use any kind of cheats. Not even the skyshard positions, I play riddles instead.
  • Taisynn
    Taisynn
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    I have a hard time disagreeing with either group on this issue. Everyone is agreeing exploiting is bad;but they're wrongly penalizing legit craft hoarders and those who use all writs on their mains.

    I have a level 18 character with level 31 enchanting; she gets Eastmarch writs. She would NOT survive if I used her to collect the survey.

    I'm just fortunate I did her survey only once on my main and I only collected it from a normal banker in a town. I do have a portable banker but I didn't use him in this instance.

    This just seems like a mess.
    PC - @Taisynn - NA - CP 268
    Shizuko url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CvZa0PPdzAfUv9h_rd8J2vwc1B4NnZGkPL_n4WfgYfs/edit?usp=sharing"]RP Profile[/url - Bosmer - LVL50 - Nightblade 50 Provisioning, 50 Woodworking, 50 Clothing, 50 Alchemy Ebonhart Pact
    Nev'e - Bosmer - LVL 18 - Templar 50 Enchanting Ebonhart Pact

    Proud Member of the Guilds:
    Rusty Old Dragons (Trade) | Children of Skyrim (RP/EP) | Goldleaf Acquisitions (RP/EP)
    Spicy Economics (Trade) | The Jackals (RP/EP)
  • Xjcon
    Xjcon
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    Deleted.
    Edited by Xjcon on April 30, 2016 7:17PM
    Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
    Jcon V16 Orc DK
    Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
    Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB
  • Taisynn
    Taisynn
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    Reevster wrote: »
    Buffler wrote: »
    So many people making judgements who have got the exploit wrong. Im fed up of explaining it but moving surveys between different characters via your bank was not it. There is nothing wrong with doing that.

    Ya we know thats "not it" but it begs the question , is leveling up an alt for the sole purpose of farming writs "proper game play" ?

    People are saying that their lvl 18 char with lvl 40 say enchanting cant go and get the nods because the mobs in that zone are too high, well then thats obviously a farm alt and not one you normally play. maybe this needs to be looked into as well.

    That person is me. And I level up her enchanting by letting her deconstruct the glyphs my main character gets while out in the world. I deposit the glyphs in the bank and deconstruct.

    And I hoard the materials. I've never once sold any on her.

    I didn't have the skill points on my main so I used an alt for enchanting.
    PC - @Taisynn - NA - CP 268
    Shizuko url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CvZa0PPdzAfUv9h_rd8J2vwc1B4NnZGkPL_n4WfgYfs/edit?usp=sharing"]RP Profile[/url - Bosmer - LVL50 - Nightblade 50 Provisioning, 50 Woodworking, 50 Clothing, 50 Alchemy Ebonhart Pact
    Nev'e - Bosmer - LVL 18 - Templar 50 Enchanting Ebonhart Pact

    Proud Member of the Guilds:
    Rusty Old Dragons (Trade) | Children of Skyrim (RP/EP) | Goldleaf Acquisitions (RP/EP)
    Spicy Economics (Trade) | The Jackals (RP/EP)
  • Megalex1
    Megalex1
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    maboleth wrote: »
    I did this, sort of. I got the survey that I didn't use, but then in Enchanter's package I received yet another survey of the same region. Since I couldn't have 2 surveys in my inventory, I have used one and then after harvesting, I opened the box and used it again.

    That's completely different from the exploit. What you did is 100% legit and lots of ppl do that.

    The exploit allowed someone to reuse the same survey hundreds of times. The same, not a different one
  • lathbury
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    kylewwefan wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*

    Actually, that's what I did yesterday.

    I had a bunch of surveys piled up, and I've moved a bunch to mules because I haven't had the time to go harvest them. When ZOS announced that they'll fix this exploit, I had guessed (incorrectly) that they'll fix it by making it character-bound (seemed like the easiest fix to me). If that was to be their solution, then I can't have my surveys sitting on a mule because then they'll be stuck on that character.

    So I relocated all my surveys back to my main and spent a couple of hours collecting the mats from all of them (including some duplicate surveys that were still in their containers).

    And everything's fine. I went on a legitimate survey spree yesterday because I thought that they might make it character-bound, and nothing happened.

    Finally, I do know a few people who did get suspended (nobody is being banned, BTW; it's all 3-day suspensions), and AFAIK, there were no false positives in any of those suspensions.

    (I'm not saying that their system is 100% fool-proof; I'm just saying that with the few data points that I do have access to, there were no false positives amongst them.)

    I'm glad no one is getting permenantly banned, but suspension does suck over the weekend. seems wrong to do to someone that has a 5000 crown banker....these are the people zenimax needs to keep happy after all....

    should be perma banned and no exploiters are not people zos need to keep happy
  • maboleth
    maboleth
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    Megalex1 wrote: »
    maboleth wrote: »
    I did this, sort of. I got the survey that I didn't use, but then in Enchanter's package I received yet another survey of the same region. Since I couldn't have 2 surveys in my inventory, I have used one and then after harvesting, I opened the box and used it again.

    That's completely different from the exploit. What you did is 100% legit and lots of ppl do that.

    The exploit allowed someone to reuse the same survey hundreds of times. The same, not a different one

    Good to know, thanks!
  • Ch4mpTW
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    One last thing to keep in mind. You NEVER want your customers to feel betrayed and treated wrongly. Never. That's basic business strategy. Sure there has to be a standard upheld and a certain criteria met at all times. But, customer satisfaction should be very high on a company's priorities. And in response? A lot of us are speaking with our wallets. We're not buying new DLC's. We're not subscribing to ESO Plus anymore. We're not buying another Zenimax product again. In fact. On that topic, I recently made a poll not too long ago that asked how many people would buy another Zenimax Online Studios product, and 61% said, "No." And most of these people saying no, are saying it because of how Zenimax has treated its customers. And you think this incident is helping the customers trust them further...? Let alone want to be bothered with their company any further? Lol. C'mon now.

    Proof of Poll: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/257946/would-you-buy-another-zos-game/p1

    [Edited to remove slanderous comments, and discussing disciplinary actions]
    Edited by [Deleted User] on April 30, 2016 8:51PM
  • reguvin
    reguvin
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    Thank you Zenimax for Banning Cheaters, and keeping the Game safe.
    - Beta Tester
    - PC (2014-2015)
    - Playstation 4 (Since 2015)

    - Known for Trading & Guilds
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    I agree ban em. I think 72 hrs wasnt enough personally.
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    Thank you Zenimax for not thoroughly testing your product enough (as per usual), and banning both the innocent and guilty in a single sweep via the activation of a script that could and did have collateral damage.
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on April 30, 2016 8:14PM
  • Mysteri0n
    Mysteri0n
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    If Zos would get their Code right and fix their game they wouldn't be exploits like this, instead of worrying about new DLCs and new crown store garbage they should take a major update and fix their game instead of releasing new content with new bugs to add on top of the old ones, those bans was unnecessary do to the Laziness on Zos's part.
    Lore Council Conclave of Shadows, Trade Council in Knights Arcanum
    Officer Celestials of Nirn, Proud Member of Enders Jeesh .Stam Sorc Since Beta 2014
    #ARGONIANMASTERRACE
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!
    CP: 1950 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Sorcerer ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Mysteri0n wrote: »
    If Zos would get their Code right and fix their game they wouldn't be exploits like this, instead of worrying about new DLCs and new crown store garbage they should take a major update and fix their game instead of releasing new content with new bugs to add on top of the old ones, those bans was unnecessary do to the Laziness on Zos's part.

    Just because you can do something against the rules doesnt mean you should. If you do dont complain later about being suspended for a few days.
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

    Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

    I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.
  • Runs
    Runs
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    Source
    Hello, we do not generally discuss suspensions or other player penalties. However, it is not true, suspensions are for simply having a crafting survey in the bank. The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials. And no one who has recovered from a survey 500 resources can tell me that he had simply gotten lucky. I do not exclude that mistakes could be made. It's the opposite. But not everyone who shouts, is innocent.

    Did and does that take into account the amount of resources they had BEFORE doing the survey? I mean it's not uncommon for me to save up well over 500 resources before I get around to refining, since I am not a fan of refining in small amounts. If someone had one account set up to hold all the BS, WW and Cloth raw mats I could definitely see some false positives being thrown.

    For example playerX has 452 raw rubedite ore and gets 54 more from survey nodes... Will this produce a false positive? Anyone willing to test?

    Runs| Orc NightbladeChim-el Adabal| Dunmer TemplarM'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
    Oddity| Altmer SorcerorDrizlo| Orc DragonKnightLady Ra Gada| Redguard Sorceror
    Taste-of-Hist-Sap| Argonian NightbladeWar'den Peace| Khajiit WardenLittle Warden Annie Altmer Warden
    Ports with Blood| Breton TemplarDirty-Old-Man| Dunmer DragonKnightEyes-of-the-Sun| Argonian DragonKnight
    Bleak Mystique| Nord WardenPolychronopolous| Imperial SorcerorBullcrit| Khajiit Nightblade
    PC NA CP 1250+ and still a noob
    At Writs End - A place to complete master writs
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

    Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

    I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

    If by using said 'exploit' directly harmed other people... which it no doubt would do because of how it would impact the game economy... then YES, it definitely is the player's fault! ZOS had a major problem with exploits when the game launched, it was a major PR fiasco which took them quite some time to recover from. Further, the TOS give ZOS the absolute right to enforce ANYTHING they consider to be improper player behavior... our participation in this game is at THEIR discretion, not OURS. Albeit, we can walk away from the game at any time... but ultimately, if we want to continue playing, we have to abide by their rules and TOS.
    Edited by ADarklore on April 30, 2016 8:31PM
    CP: 1950 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Sorcerer ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

    Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

    I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

    You know the rules. You knew you werent supposed to keep using the same survey over and over forever. So its YOUR fault.
  • Reevster
    Reevster
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    I agree ban em. I think 72 hrs wasnt enough personally.

    Its enough , most of those banned will think twice next time when something similar happens, heck they might even report it like they should have in the first place.

    But some people never learn, if these people come up for a ban able offense at some time in the future for something similar then they definitely need a longer length of time away from ESO..
    Edited by Reevster on April 30, 2016 8:33PM
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Reevster wrote: »
    I agree ban em. I think 72 hrs wasnt enough personally.

    Its enough , most of those banned will think twice next time when something similar happens, heck they might even report it like they should have in the first place.

    But some people never learn, if they come up for a ban able offense at some time in the future for something similar then they definitely need a longer length of time away from ESO..

    I wonder do they get to keep all their loot and gold they made exploiting the surveys?
  • HxC
    HxC
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    @ZOS_AlanG

    Could we expect a reply from customer service before the end of the day ?
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Reevster wrote: »
    I agree ban em. I think 72 hrs wasnt enough personally.

    Its enough , most of those banned will think twice next time when something similar happens, heck they might even report it like they should have in the first place.

    But some people never learn, if they come up for a ban able offense at some time in the future for something similar then they definitely need a longer length of time away from ESO..

    I wonder do they get to keep all their loot and gold they made exploiting the surveys?

    I believe Gina said they were being removed. At least as far as the mats, not sure about gold from selling them though... hopefully!
    Edited by ADarklore on April 30, 2016 8:34PM
    CP: 1950 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Sorcerer ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

    Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

    I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

    If by using said 'exploit' directly harmed other people... which it no doubt would do because of how it would impact the game economy... then YES, it definitely is the player's fault! ZOS had a major problem with exploits when the game launched, it was a major PR fiasco which took them quite some time to recover from. Further, the TOS give ZOS the absolute right to enforce ANYTHING they consider to be improper player behavior... our participation in this game is at THEIR discretion, not OURS. Albeit, we can walk away from the game at any time... but ultimately, if we want to continue playing, we have to abide by their rules and TOS.

    So you're saying it's not the developers' fault for not testing enough? Interesting... I suppose its because of this type of "okey-doke mentality" that ZO$ is so sloppy nowadays with their products, or in case of the Thieves Guild release, completely ignore our feedback on things in the PTS. In fact, they released something live that was completely different than what was on the PTS. But okay, that's a different topic all together. I see now why ZO$ gets away with the treatment of its customers, and thinks nothing of it.
  • Reevster
    Reevster
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    Reevster wrote: »
    I agree ban em. I think 72 hrs wasnt enough personally.

    Its enough , most of those banned will think twice next time when something similar happens, heck they might even report it like they should have in the first place.

    But some people never learn, if they come up for a ban able offense at some time in the future for something similar then they definitely need a longer length of time away from ESO..

    I wonder do they get to keep all their loot and gold they made exploiting the surveys?

    I would hope so, maybe hard to track down every bit of gold made but they should be able to get most of the mats/gold etc.
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Reevster wrote: »
    Reevster wrote: »
    I agree ban em. I think 72 hrs wasnt enough personally.

    Its enough , most of those banned will think twice next time when something similar happens, heck they might even report it like they should have in the first place.

    But some people never learn, if they come up for a ban able offense at some time in the future for something similar then they definitely need a longer length of time away from ESO..

    I wonder do they get to keep all their loot and gold they made exploiting the surveys?

    I would hope so, maybe hard to track down every bit of gold made but they should be able to get most of the mats/gold etc.

    I wonder how long has this been going on? Since they came out? If so thats a LOT of mats.
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

    Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

    I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

    If by using said 'exploit' directly harmed other people... which it no doubt would do because of how it would impact the game economy... then YES, it definitely is the player's fault! ZOS had a major problem with exploits when the game launched, it was a major PR fiasco which took them quite some time to recover from. Further, the TOS give ZOS the absolute right to enforce ANYTHING they consider to be improper player behavior... our participation in this game is at THEIR discretion, not OURS. Albeit, we can walk away from the game at any time... but ultimately, if we want to continue playing, we have to abide by their rules and TOS.

    So you're saying it's not the developers' fault for not testing enough? Interesting... I suppose its because of this type of "okey-doke mentality" that ZO$ is so sloppy nowadays with their products, or in case of the Thieves Guild release, completely ignore our feedback on things in the PTS. In fact, they released something live that was completely different than what was on the PTS. But okay, that's a different topic all together. I see now why ZO$ gets away with the treatment of its customers, and thinks nothing of it.

    In this case, YES! ZOS gets away with enforcing their rules when potentially economy-breaking exploits are being used in the game. You make not like ZOS' RULES, but they are there, and refusing to abide by them is not ZOS' problem.
    CP: 1950 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Sorcerer ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
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