Bans Weren't For Surveys In Banks. They Were For VERY High Ratios Of Mats Per Survey

Wreuntzylla

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Really happy ZOS keeps and tracks data.

Which really pisses me off. When my friend contacted ZoS because items had disappeared from her inventory (a bug they fixed in the next patch) they told her they couldn't give the items back because they had no way of knowing if she ever had the items...

Xjcon

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

If you turn on a road and there is no speed limit does that mean you can do 100 mph? No. Stop playing the ignorant card. People who exploited got a slap on the hands be done with it. Learn from it and STOP exploiting.

DaveMoeDee

Tryxus wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

If you cant do the time don't do the crime.

Be safe

72 hrs, and hopefully their exploit earned mats removed

Could be worth it. 3 days is no big deal unless you are a serious ESO addict. Plenty of other games to play.

DaveMoeDee

pinkempyreal wrote: »

Even if you are innocent and were banned, being upset is one thing but coming to the forums to stand on a pedestal and shout to the world about it is another. Quite frankly I'd rather not play with people like that. If you're innocent, curse the gods for your misfortune, submit your appeal and shut the hell up.

I'd rather play with them than you.

It is absurd to ban people without real evidence. In the past, I have had my main harvest backlogs of survey maps from writs from multiple characters because I didn't feel like running around Craglorn each time I got one. I would use a single character to harvest because he was the only one properly leveled. Apparently, I could have been banned if I had done that recently.

I really don't care about exploits. Better to let people use the exploits than to ban people for playing the game as intended.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

....snip...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

Glad you copy/pasted this one here, I was actually commenting when Alan closed it.

The german forum doesn't say "the criteria for banning people was a mats/survey ratio above 500". Kai said "the criteria used was the mats/survey ratio. Now if you come and tell me that you got over 500 mats from a single survey by pure luck, I just don't believe you". He was just giving an example, not a fixed figure.
The translation was googled so it's pretty much rubbish.

It is possible that people who have normally harvested a survey and then gone on farming normally for a couple of hours have been caught mistakenly. There are hundreds of reasons why a script can render wrong or partially wrong results. I'm not saying that everyone's innocent, but you should assume everyone's guilty either. We simply don't know, case by case.

And... do we really have to know ... ?

You can't go on and harvest the unique nodes these surveys give you.

ZOS get informed that there is an exploit going on with players harvesting "Lush Ancestor Silk" they write up a script for players harvesting x amount of nodes in x amount of time for suspicious behavior and I believe the number they would write up would be realistic enough to not catch someone who has saved their surveys.

They run the script from when assistants were introduced to now and ban anyone exceeding the benchmark.

But in saying that, yes I believe some people were wrongly banned, and this is all guessing but I'm fairly sure that's how they would have handled their script. From the time they were notified on this to the time the bans and fix rolled out it seems like thats what was happening.
I'm unsure how they would even handle fixing someone who was banned wrongly

Hmm, this is news to me. I DO harvest normal nodes at the same time when collecting survey mats, and do it fast. It's quite common i have over 500 mats after survey node route through Wrothgar. In fact i move from survey to survey by harvesting in-between.

You get 500 mats from one survey? If not the guy was talking about from one survey.

No, from the route through Wrothgar. Usually i have almost every survey with me. Äsch, i don't have exact statistics for you, this is just what i commonly see afterwards when saving stuff to bank. Stacks, lots. ZOS could have filtered people having lots of mats in their pocket, and the other then talks about one survey. Corporate confusion as usual.

Not true. It has nothing to do with how many mats you had in your inventory.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

pinkempyreal wrote: »

Even if you are innocent and were banned, being upset is one thing but coming to the forums to stand on a pedestal and shout to the world about it is another. Quite frankly I'd rather not play with people like that. If you're innocent, curse the gods for your misfortune, submit your appeal and shut the hell up.

I'd rather play with them than you.

It is absurd to ban people without real evidence. In the past, I have had my main harvest backlogs of survey maps from writs from multiple characters because I didn't feel like running around Craglorn each time I got one. I would use a single character to harvest because he was the only one properly leveled. Apparently, I could have been banned if I had done that recently.

I really don't care about exploits. Better to let people use the exploits than to ban people for playing the game as intended.

What makes you think ZOS doesnt have evidence?

helediron

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

....snip...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

Glad you copy/pasted this one here, I was actually commenting when Alan closed it.

The german forum doesn't say "the criteria for banning people was a mats/survey ratio above 500". Kai said "the criteria used was the mats/survey ratio. Now if you come and tell me that you got over 500 mats from a single survey by pure luck, I just don't believe you". He was just giving an example, not a fixed figure.
The translation was googled so it's pretty much rubbish.

It is possible that people who have normally harvested a survey and then gone on farming normally for a couple of hours have been caught mistakenly. There are hundreds of reasons why a script can render wrong or partially wrong results. I'm not saying that everyone's innocent, but you should assume everyone's guilty either. We simply don't know, case by case.

And... do we really have to know ... ?

You can't go on and harvest the unique nodes these surveys give you.

ZOS get informed that there is an exploit going on with players harvesting "Lush Ancestor Silk" they write up a script for players harvesting x amount of nodes in x amount of time for suspicious behavior and I believe the number they would write up would be realistic enough to not catch someone who has saved their surveys.

They run the script from when assistants were introduced to now and ban anyone exceeding the benchmark.

But in saying that, yes I believe some people were wrongly banned, and this is all guessing but I'm fairly sure that's how they would have handled their script. From the time they were notified on this to the time the bans and fix rolled out it seems like thats what was happening.
I'm unsure how they would even handle fixing someone who was banned wrongly

Hmm, this is news to me. I DO harvest normal nodes at the same time when collecting survey mats, and do it fast. It's quite common i have over 500 mats after survey node route through Wrothgar. In fact i move from survey to survey by harvesting in-between.

You get 500 mats from one survey? If not the guy was talking about from one survey.

No, from the route through Wrothgar. Usually i have almost every survey with me. Äsch, i don't have exact statistics for you, this is just what i commonly see afterwards when saving stuff to bank. Stacks, lots. ZOS could have filtered people having lots of mats in their pocket, and the other then talks about one survey. Corporate confusion as usual.

Not true. It has nothing to do with how many mats you had in your inventory.

Please stay within facts. I have the suspense but i will not argue about evidence here. I keep it private between me and ZOS support. But It doesn't help if you start inventing things out of your head.

Taisynn

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Really happy ZOS keeps and tracks data.

Which really pisses me off. When my friend contacted ZoS because items had disappeared from her inventory (a bug they fixed in the next patch) they told her they couldn't give the items back because they had no way of knowing if she ever had the items...

THIS SAME THING HAPPENED TO MY BOYFRIEND. It was ssooo irritating. And they knew he had them because he bought them from the crown store!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

....snip...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

Glad you copy/pasted this one here, I was actually commenting when Alan closed it.

The german forum doesn't say "the criteria for banning people was a mats/survey ratio above 500". Kai said "the criteria used was the mats/survey ratio. Now if you come and tell me that you got over 500 mats from a single survey by pure luck, I just don't believe you". He was just giving an example, not a fixed figure.
The translation was googled so it's pretty much rubbish.

It is possible that people who have normally harvested a survey and then gone on farming normally for a couple of hours have been caught mistakenly. There are hundreds of reasons why a script can render wrong or partially wrong results. I'm not saying that everyone's innocent, but you should assume everyone's guilty either. We simply don't know, case by case.

And... do we really have to know ... ?

You can't go on and harvest the unique nodes these surveys give you.

ZOS get informed that there is an exploit going on with players harvesting "Lush Ancestor Silk" they write up a script for players harvesting x amount of nodes in x amount of time for suspicious behavior and I believe the number they would write up would be realistic enough to not catch someone who has saved their surveys.

They run the script from when assistants were introduced to now and ban anyone exceeding the benchmark.

But in saying that, yes I believe some people were wrongly banned, and this is all guessing but I'm fairly sure that's how they would have handled their script. From the time they were notified on this to the time the bans and fix rolled out it seems like thats what was happening.
I'm unsure how they would even handle fixing someone who was banned wrongly

Hmm, this is news to me. I DO harvest normal nodes at the same time when collecting survey mats, and do it fast. It's quite common i have over 500 mats after survey node route through Wrothgar. In fact i move from survey to survey by harvesting in-between.

You get 500 mats from one survey? If not the guy was talking about from one survey.

No, from the route through Wrothgar. Usually i have almost every survey with me. Äsch, i don't have exact statistics for you, this is just what i commonly see afterwards when saving stuff to bank. Stacks, lots. ZOS could have filtered people having lots of mats in their pocket, and the other then talks about one survey. Corporate confusion as usual.

Not true. It has nothing to do with how many mats you had in your inventory.

Please stay within facts. I have the suspense but i will not argue about evidence here. I keep it private between me and ZOS support. But It doesn't help if you start inventing things out of your head.

If you guys would actually read it had to do with having 500+ mats off ONE SURVEY. Doing surveys will not get you banned. Doing the same survey 1000 times will. The facts are the facts.

helediron

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

....snip...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

Glad you copy/pasted this one here, I was actually commenting when Alan closed it.

The german forum doesn't say "the criteria for banning people was a mats/survey ratio above 500". Kai said "the criteria used was the mats/survey ratio. Now if you come and tell me that you got over 500 mats from a single survey by pure luck, I just don't believe you". He was just giving an example, not a fixed figure.
The translation was googled so it's pretty much rubbish.

It is possible that people who have normally harvested a survey and then gone on farming normally for a couple of hours have been caught mistakenly. There are hundreds of reasons why a script can render wrong or partially wrong results. I'm not saying that everyone's innocent, but you should assume everyone's guilty either. We simply don't know, case by case.

And... do we really have to know ... ?

You can't go on and harvest the unique nodes these surveys give you.

ZOS get informed that there is an exploit going on with players harvesting "Lush Ancestor Silk" they write up a script for players harvesting x amount of nodes in x amount of time for suspicious behavior and I believe the number they would write up would be realistic enough to not catch someone who has saved their surveys.

They run the script from when assistants were introduced to now and ban anyone exceeding the benchmark.

But in saying that, yes I believe some people were wrongly banned, and this is all guessing but I'm fairly sure that's how they would have handled their script. From the time they were notified on this to the time the bans and fix rolled out it seems like thats what was happening.
I'm unsure how they would even handle fixing someone who was banned wrongly

Hmm, this is news to me. I DO harvest normal nodes at the same time when collecting survey mats, and do it fast. It's quite common i have over 500 mats after survey node route through Wrothgar. In fact i move from survey to survey by harvesting in-between.

You get 500 mats from one survey? If not the guy was talking about from one survey.

No, from the route through Wrothgar. Usually i have almost every survey with me. Äsch, i don't have exact statistics for you, this is just what i commonly see afterwards when saving stuff to bank. Stacks, lots. ZOS could have filtered people having lots of mats in their pocket, and the other then talks about one survey. Corporate confusion as usual.

Not true. It has nothing to do with how many mats you had in your inventory.

Please stay within facts. I have the suspense but i will not argue about evidence here. I keep it private between me and ZOS support. But It doesn't help if you start inventing things out of your head.

If you guys would actually read it had to do with having 500+ mats off ONE SURVEY. Doing surveys will not get you banned. Doing the same survey 1000 times will. The facts are the facts.

That is exactly the problem. They didn't check it that way.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

....snip...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

Glad you copy/pasted this one here, I was actually commenting when Alan closed it.

The german forum doesn't say "the criteria for banning people was a mats/survey ratio above 500". Kai said "the criteria used was the mats/survey ratio. Now if you come and tell me that you got over 500 mats from a single survey by pure luck, I just don't believe you". He was just giving an example, not a fixed figure.
The translation was googled so it's pretty much rubbish.

It is possible that people who have normally harvested a survey and then gone on farming normally for a couple of hours have been caught mistakenly. There are hundreds of reasons why a script can render wrong or partially wrong results. I'm not saying that everyone's innocent, but you should assume everyone's guilty either. We simply don't know, case by case.

And... do we really have to know ... ?

You can't go on and harvest the unique nodes these surveys give you.

ZOS get informed that there is an exploit going on with players harvesting "Lush Ancestor Silk" they write up a script for players harvesting x amount of nodes in x amount of time for suspicious behavior and I believe the number they would write up would be realistic enough to not catch someone who has saved their surveys.

They run the script from when assistants were introduced to now and ban anyone exceeding the benchmark.

But in saying that, yes I believe some people were wrongly banned, and this is all guessing but I'm fairly sure that's how they would have handled their script. From the time they were notified on this to the time the bans and fix rolled out it seems like thats what was happening.
I'm unsure how they would even handle fixing someone who was banned wrongly

Hmm, this is news to me. I DO harvest normal nodes at the same time when collecting survey mats, and do it fast. It's quite common i have over 500 mats after survey node route through Wrothgar. In fact i move from survey to survey by harvesting in-between.

You get 500 mats from one survey? If not the guy was talking about from one survey.

No, from the route through Wrothgar. Usually i have almost every survey with me. Äsch, i don't have exact statistics for you, this is just what i commonly see afterwards when saving stuff to bank. Stacks, lots. ZOS could have filtered people having lots of mats in their pocket, and the other then talks about one survey. Corporate confusion as usual.

Not true. It has nothing to do with how many mats you had in your inventory.

Please stay within facts. I have the suspense but i will not argue about evidence here. I keep it private between me and ZOS support. But It doesn't help if you start inventing things out of your head.

If you guys would actually read it had to do with having 500+ mats off ONE SURVEY. Doing surveys will not get you banned. Doing the same survey 1000 times will. The facts are the facts.

That is exactly the problem. They didn't check it that way.

How do you know that?

anitajoneb17_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If you guys would actually read it had to do with having 500+ mats off ONE SURVEY. Doing surveys will not get you banned. Doing the same survey 1000 times will. The facts are the facts.

If you James would actually read what's written instead of what you think is written. The facts are indeed the facts and you're not fact-based at all.

Their check was a ratio harvested materials / used survey maps. (Not sure it was precisely 500 but it doesn't matter).
If you had harvested hundreds of mats normally, outside of survey maps, you could in theory have been caught although you were not guilty of any exploit.
Harvesting hundreds of mats takes only a few hours.

HxC

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

If someone feels they have been erroneously banned, for any reason, they should submit an appeal here.

It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.

For those discussing this matter, please bear in mind that this is a sensitive topic. Blanket statements that anyone appealing is a fraud aren't helpful. If you suspect that some people complaining about bans aren't being truthful, that's fine, but over-generalizing matters is needlessly aggressive. Let's work to bring the tension down, rather than escalating it.

I number of posts have been removed from this thread. Additionally, we will be consolidating the discussion of this matter into this thread.

Great job ZOS ! 34 hours and still no reply from Customer support ,so you suspended people without any evidences and we can't say anything !

HxC

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

(there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

I already say to you and your friends, I don't care about what you think , i know i have done nothing wrong, so could you stop reply to this thread, we don't care about you're love of witch hunting and i already know that you'll never apologies when we'll prove our innocence.

Caradawc

HxC wrote: »

Great job ZOS ! 34 hours and still no reply from Customer support ,so you suspended people without any evidences and we can't say anything !

Even when they do reply it's blatantly obvious they haven't read what you posted in your appeal and have just copied and pasted a standard response.

I suggest you give up trying to get anywhere with customer support and just accept that those of us that were innocent are collateral damage and go spend the rest of your weekend doing something else.

Arthg

Play clean, get away dirty...?

ginoboehm

i hope they lost all the mats too and the ones they tried to sell the gold will be withheld in any other case a 72h ban is useless

Nibo

so frustrating
I support bans but you have to be able to tell guilty from innocent
Customer Support is useless.
review my damn account and clean this mess up

Rune_Relic

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

So if someone uses a computer to hack your bank account and steal all your money ...
..its the computer manufacturer that should be charged as they provided you with the tools.

Computers arent designed to allow people to hack bank accounts.....and yet.

Bad workmen always blame their tools too.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

So if someone uses a computer to hack your bank account and steal all your money ...
..its the computer manufacturer that should be charged as they provided you with the tools.

Computers arent designed to allow people to hack bank accounts.....and yet.

Bad workmen always blame their tools too.

Or the ATM gives you $1000 instead of the $100 you asked for? Thats free money for you because the atm should work properly right? I doubt the bank agrees hehe.

Verbalinkontinenz

Sure u can get Banned wirhout doing Sthg wrong. Zos cant Divide Lumber writ 1 a, b or c. Für them its one. If u got 3 or 4 of Same writ and collected them weithin Short Time u Could get 500 Mats from "one " writ and triggered The Script.

swirve

ericmazateaub16_ESO wrote: »

This exploit involved using the mobile bank npc.
When they banned, they checked the amount of mats but not if the player owned a mobile bank.

Adding this simple "where" condition to their selection request would have made it closer to the real target.
Of course, it wouldn't have been perfect but at least it would have been closer to a balance.


It would be nice to have someone with the proper legal background to post the required information to sue them so that they can have a taste of their own medecin.

Afterall if they don't care about justice with their mindless and obnoxious decision.
We shall not refrain from making them pay their professional failure.

Good luck with that. I find it laughable you think you know more than zos about the inner workings and data they hold and the tools they have to assess these things...why dont you take legal action, is love to then how far you dont get.

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

A load of people who did the exploit I know haven't been banned.

Well lets hope ZoS catches up with them

ADarklore

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I really don't care about exploits. Better to let people use the exploits than to ban people for playing the game as intended.

Say WHAT?!? So three days from the game is worse than having the entire game economy ruined?!? Wow...

It sucks that some people who weren't doing something wrong were caught up in this, but ultimately three days is better than a perma-ban... especially if it protects the game economy and makes all players aware that ZOS takes any form of serious, game-breaking exploiting seriously.

Inklings

HxC wrote: »

I already say to you and your friends, I don't care about what you think , i know i have done nothing wrong, so could you stop reply to this thread, we don't care about you're love of witch hunting and i already know that you'll never apologies when we'll prove our innocence.

I hope you have some condolence in the fact there there are people who know you did nothing wrong. As someone else that was suspended, i know that if i did nothing wrong then there are many other people who also did nothing wrong, that got caught up in this mess.

I had a very special friend pull some string for me to get my account reviewed by the engineers and my suspension is still withstanding. I have dealt with this company and their suspension/banning practices enough to know that not everything gets tracked at all times. People who keep saying they do are 100% wrong. Certain perimeters need to be reached before things even start to get tracked. When they go back and look at our accounts they don't get a full story. They arnt watching replay videos. Its more of detective work then anything else and this time around they are missing a big piece of the picture for a lot of people cause they were not tracking everything they needed at the proper times. This is always going to be a problem unless they have people like gamemasters check up on people who they think are exploiting, but they flat out don't do that as often when they should. After their script gets tripped, they should be waiting and checking up on those people first before taking any action but again they don't and honestly i don't think they have the man power to do so.

I am what i call a hardcore grinder. Gold, matts, exp, I like to grind it! Back in the day i used to have game masters come check up on me all the time. They would do cute things like ask me "what is your favorite faction?"
in a whisper to see if i would respond, to make sure i wasn't botting. Now I haven't seen a gamemaster in over a year, when it used to be a common occurrence for me.

I would love for ZoS to completely monitor my account next week and compare my harvesting numbers to the previous. I'm even going to make a video next week to show what someone who has 8 vr16s all with max crafting professions pulls in just an hours time through writs and hirelings alone. I think a lot of people are going to be amazed how profitable it is. I'm willing to work with them over this issue not to prove that i am right, but to make sure they are. Its more important to me they figure out were they want wrong so stuff like this does not keep happening. We had a $40 dollar convenience item tied to this problem were innocent people were suspended. That shouldnt sit easy with anyone. That should be the main focus of this whole ordeal and its being massively over looked by both players and ZoS.

Jaronking

ADarklore wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I really don't care about exploits. Better to let people use the exploits than to ban people for playing the game as intended.

Say WHAT?!? So three days from the game is worse than having the entire game economy ruined?!? Wow...

The in game economy would be bad for like a week at most because everyone would want to sell their gold mats and would have to lower the prices.Which I would be fine with.15k for a kuta sucks not to mentioned 10k for Alloy.So those dropping to like 500 gold a piece for a few days I'll be fine with that.Personal I don't care about this exploit people was during it and nothing happened to the economy since TG started on Xbox prices have went up.So if you think the in game economy going to get ruin because players can afford stuff now then I don't know what to say.

Tandor

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

It is surprising the number of people who support the exploiters... it makes me wonder how their own 'real life' logic works. I definitely wouldn't trust any of these people in real life!

Quick question. If a person bought something from a store. And that product bought from the store had secret functions in it, that its creators weren't aware of... But, others choose to use said secret functions... Who's at fault truly in the situation? Is it the fault of the creators/developers for not thoroughly checking their product enough for secret functions, or the people who discovered the secret function, and choose to use it however they wished...?

I can tell you right now, from a corporate point-of-view? The creator/developer is at fault, and should face punishment. Not the consumer. Why? Because it was the CREATOR/DEVELOPER'S job to have solid quality control. It was their job to not only develop said product, but thoroughly examine it for: Flaws, exploits, etc.

So if someone uses a computer to hack your bank account and steal all your money ...
..its the computer manufacturer that should be charged as they provided you with the tools.

Computers arent designed to allow people to hack bank accounts.....and yet.

Bad workmen always blame their tools too.

Or the ATM gives you $1000 instead of the $100 you asked for? Thats free money for you because the atm should work properly right? I doubt the bank agrees hehe.

Not forgetting those customers who would hammer the ATM time and again so they ended up with tens of thousands until they got stopped, had the money taken back, and the police called, at which point I'm sure they'd find a forum somewhere to complain about it.

I don't doubt that a few innocents have been caught up in this, and I equally don't doubt that their cases will be resolved. They have my sympathy up to the point where some of them blame the developers rather than the actual exploiters for creating this situation, and at that point I find it a bit harder to spot which are truly innocent and which are not.

ADarklore

Jaronking wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I really don't care about exploits. Better to let people use the exploits than to ban people for playing the game as intended.

Say WHAT?!? So three days from the game is worse than having the entire game economy ruined?!? Wow...

The in game economy would be bad for like a week at most because everyone would want to sell their gold mats and would have to lower the prices.Which I would be fine with.15k for a kuta sucks not to mentioned 10k for Alloy.So those dropping to like 500 gold a piece for a few days I'll be fine with that.Personal I don't care about this exploit people was during it and nothing happened to the economy since TG started on Xbox prices have went up.So if you think the in game economy going to get ruin because players can afford stuff now then I don't know what to say.

But you're also talking about a game that received a HUGE amount of bad publicity for the exploiting when it was originally launched on PC, those exploits harmed the game for months. I've seen on other MMOs how any type of exploit that could be tied to the economy caused months and months of damage... because many people would stockpile their ill-gotten gains and sell them over time. Sure the prices may drop initially, for those who rush to sell, but over time those who stock-piled could then sell items for exorbitant prices. So I think when it comes to major exploits that could harm thousands of players, ZOS takes it very seriously given their past history.

Caradawc

Tandor wrote: »

I don't doubt that a few innocents have been caught up in this, and I equally don't doubt that their cases will be resolved. They have my sympathy up to the point where some of them blame the developers rather than the actual exploiters for creating this situation, and at that point I find it a bit harder to spot which are truly innocent and which are not.

As someone who is currently taking a forced break from the game for no fault of my own I absolutely blame the exploiters for creating my situation and think a 3 day suspension is a joke and zero deterrent to exploiters.

However I completely I blame ZOS for the way the situation has been handled. Firstly they should have employed a more accurate checking method and secondly their handling of appeals has been diabolical.

ADarklore

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I don't doubt that a few innocents have been caught up in this, and I equally don't doubt that their cases will be resolved. They have my sympathy up to the point where some of them blame the developers rather than the actual exploiters for creating this situation, and at that point I find it a bit harder to spot which are truly innocent and which are not.

As someone who is currently taking a forced break from the game for no fault of my own I absolutely blame the exploiters for creating my situation and think a 3 day suspension is a joke and zero deterrent to exploiters.

However I completely I blame ZOS for the way the situation has been handled. Firstly they should have employed a more accurate checking method and secondly their handling of appeals has been diabolical.

I disagree. First, I think ZOS went with three days because they knew some innocent players would be caught up in it, second, ZOS has a list of player account actions... if a currently banned player is caught up in another exploiting situation, then ZOS would be more apt to perma-ban the account based upon prior account actions.

Caradawc

ADarklore wrote: »

I disagree. First, I think ZOS went with three days because they knew some innocent players would be caught up in it, second, ZOS has a list of player account actions... if a currently banned player is caught up in another exploiting situation, then ZOS would be more apt to perma-ban the account based upon prior account actions.

While I can agree that the sentence for repeat offenders should be longer than 3 days on the flip side wouldn't it be good if they also took into account a customers past record before handing out any sort of ban.

I have played this game for over 2 years and logged on almost every day. Surely they can't really think anyone would be stupid enough to risk losing everything they have earned from hundreds of hours of gameplay just to make a bit of extra in game cash which after all isn't exactly hard to accumulate anyway.

Surely a long time previously clean account warrants a bit of extra investigation when it's flagged as an exploiter to make sure that flag is accurate.