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Bans Weren't For Surveys In Banks. They Were For VERY High Ratios Of Mats Per Survey

Dominoid
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Hello, we do not generally discuss suspensions or other player penalties. However, it is not true, suspensions are for simply having a crafting survey in the bank. The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials. And no one who has recovered from a survey 500 resources can tell me that he had simply gotten lucky. I do not exclude that mistakes could be made. It's the opposite. But not everyone who shouts, is innocent.
  • Tryxus
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    So I guess everything's right as rain now?
    "The Oak's Promise: stand strong, stay true, and shelter all"
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU/DC
  • Caradawc
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    Source
    Hello, we do not generally discuss suspensions or other player penalties. However, it is not true, suspensions are for simply having a crafting survey in the bank. The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials. And no one who has recovered from a survey 500 resources can tell me that he had simply gotten lucky. I do not exclude that mistakes could be made. It's the opposite. But not everyone who shouts, is innocent.

    Fair enough but for those that broke no rules and are one of the possible mistakes mentioned what ZOS do now is important.

    To be told as some have been already that their ban will stand and won't be investigated when they claim their innocence is unacceptable.
  • Egonieser
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    I translated the German thread with google, and apart from the mindbogglingly bad translation, looks like many people have gotten the banhammer and lots of shouting going on there.
    Guess we'll see.
    Sometimes, I dream about...cheese...

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  • Dominoid
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    Source
    Hello, we do not generally discuss suspensions or other player penalties. However, it is not true, suspensions are for simply having a crafting survey in the bank. The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials. And no one who has recovered from a survey 500 resources can tell me that he had simply gotten lucky. I do not exclude that mistakes could be made. It's the opposite. But not everyone who shouts, is innocent.

    Fair enough but for those that broke no rules and are one of the possible mistakes mentioned what ZOS do now is important.

    To be told as some have been already that their ban will stand and won't be investigated when they claim their innocence is unacceptable.

    If you didn't break a rule, you don't have 500 raw materials from a single crafting survey received.
  • Nénlindë
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    Very few if any legit players are banned at all. It's almost always exploiters/cheaters who plead their case claiming they've done nothing wrong.

    Zenimax can track every single item you ever pick up... ;)
    Charmander
    every time
    nothing ever beats charmander
  • Caradawc
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    Dominoid wrote: »
    Source
    Hello, we do not generally discuss suspensions or other player penalties. However, it is not true, suspensions are for simply having a crafting survey in the bank. The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials. And no one who has recovered from a survey 500 resources can tell me that he had simply gotten lucky. I do not exclude that mistakes could be made. It's the opposite. But not everyone who shouts, is innocent.

    Fair enough but for those that broke no rules and are one of the possible mistakes mentioned what ZOS do now is important.

    To be told as some have been already that their ban will stand and won't be investigated when they claim their innocence is unacceptable.

    If you didn't break a rule, you don't have 500 raw materials from a single crafting survey received.

    And that's the problem, I know with 100% certainty that is the case hence it's a mistake. It's ZOS's refusal to investigate further that's the problem.
  • Volkodav
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    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.
  • Tryxus
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    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    Not stating that everyone is innocent, there are true exploiters after all and I hope they get what they deserve. But there are also ppl who didn't exploit, and I truly hope ZOS takes them into account as well
    Edited by Tryxus on April 30, 2016 7:23PM
    "The Oak's Promise: stand strong, stay true, and shelter all"
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU/DC
  • llSRRll
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    Love how you visit a prison and every one of the inmates will tell you they are innocent lol, seems like thats going on here and part of human nature. I do writs everyday and get surveys just about everyday and didnt get banned bc I didnt cheat. People will lie their asses off when they know they got caught smh.
    Edited by llSRRll on April 30, 2016 1:22PM
  • Caradawc
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    llSRRll wrote: »
    Love how you visit a prison and every one of the inmates will tell you they are innocent lol, seems like thats going on here and part of human nature. I do writs everyday and get surveys just about everyday and didnt get banned. People will lie their asses off when they know they got caught smh.

    I'm sure that is the situation in many cases here, don't assume it is in every one though.

  • Nénlindë
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    My entire guild does surveys legit every day. Strange nobody I know has been banned... Baffling :/
    Charmander
    every time
    nothing ever beats charmander
  • HxC
    HxC
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    [Quoted post removed]

    Why player without the banker are banned ?
    Official statement is crafting survey exploit .(like they said in the mail we received).

    So ZOS is telling that banned players without assistant have activated the map then return to the closest bank, put the map in their bank , go back to the survey site, gather material then go back to their bank and take the map and repeat. Survey report works like that since start and nobody have done this in the past and if what i read in the OP is right we are not banned because of bug exploit, but because we have lots of mats in our bank so basically their saying they are banning people because they are farming mats.

    ZOS need to clarify is position, and if i understand correctly they haven't the possibility to know on witch node you have gather the mats so they are banning people blindly.
    Edited by ZOS_AlanG on April 30, 2016 4:28PM
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Nénlindë wrote: »
    My entire guild does surveys legit every day. Strange nobody I know has been banned... Baffling :/

    I do writs all the time too. I have 4 characters that do crafting. I wasnt banned either.
  • Nénlindë
    Nénlindë
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    Nénlindë wrote: »
    My entire guild does surveys legit every day. Strange nobody I know has been banned... Baffling :/

    I do writs all the time too. I have 4 characters that do crafting. I wasnt banned either.

    That is so strange! It's almost as if people are lying and pleading their cases because they were caught red handed? :|
    Charmander
    every time
    nothing ever beats charmander
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
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  • Nénlindë
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    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*

    Yup. You're good!
    Charmander
    every time
    nothing ever beats charmander
  • Ch4mpTW
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    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*

    People can claim what they want, but I wouldn't risk it. Unless of course, you want to visit me here in the Imperial City Prison. And if by some weird chance you want to come through, sneak some skooma in. I know some Khajiit who are buying stacks for 1.7M a piece.
  • Volkodav
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.
  • HxC
    HxC
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • code65536
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    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*

    Actually, that's what I did yesterday.

    I had a bunch of surveys piled up, and I've moved a bunch to mules because I haven't had the time to go harvest them. When ZOS announced that they'll fix this exploit, I had guessed (incorrectly) that they'll fix it by making it character-bound (seemed like the easiest fix to me). If that was to be their solution, then I can't have my surveys sitting on a mule because then they'll be stuck on that character.

    So I relocated all my surveys back to my main and spent a couple of hours collecting the mats from all of them (including some duplicate surveys that were still in their containers).

    And everything's fine. I went on a legitimate survey spree yesterday because I thought that they might make it character-bound, and nothing happened.

    Finally, I do know a few people who did get suspended (nobody is being banned, BTW; it's all 3-day suspensions), and AFAIK, there were no false positives in any of those suspensions.

    (I'm not saying that their system is 100% fool-proof; I'm just saying that with the few data points that I do have access to, there were no false positives amongst them.)
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  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    There is no way a legit person could be banned. This isnt something that could be done on accident. This is something you had to do purposely. I do not buy for a second that anyone was innocent and banned on accident. How do you accidentally get 500 mats from one survey? There has to be action on your part or you will only receive the first set of nodes. So not buying this Im innocent! line.

    Are you trolling ?

    I'm going to assume not and carry on regardless

    ZOS have banned at least 1 person who didn't exploit and didn't receive 500 mats from one survey...it's a mistake and they need to investigate it.

    Person who SAYS they didnt exploit. Everyone in jail claims they are innocent.

    Yes. But some of them actually ARE innocent. Look up how many prisoners were released after years of jail when DNA tests proved, years or decades later, that they were innocent... and for some of them who were sentenced to death and executed, well...

    Luckily this is a game, we're not talking about decades of jail but 72 hours of being forced to do something else - as frustrating as it may be for innocent players.

    And of course I also believe that some of you here claiming innocence are actually guilty. But noone can prove anything anyway here.

    But I saw one of my 2 trading guilds today... The store is FLOODED, literally FLOODED with crafting mats and gold tempers. That's unusual.
    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 30, 2016 1:39PM
  • Volkodav
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    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    I think it is safe to assume mistakes were made. I mean look at the rest of the game code. Mistakes are always made. Now you are going to assume that they can code a program to find all the people who got over 500 mats in a short period of time correctly and not make a mistake? I wouldnt bet on it.

    Id bet like most of the code in game it usually works. But not always.
  • Rex-Umbra
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    Really happy ZOS keeps and tracks data.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • Tryxus
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    There is no way to trigger this by accident. So there was noone banned for exploiting that didnt not just exploit but multiple times on the same survey. Its ONE survey and you get 500 mats from it then auto ban. There is just no wya possible for them to accidentally do this over and over and over. Come on man.

    So I take it you never acidentally deposited smth in your bank that you didn't mean to?
    "The Oak's Promise: stand strong, stay true, and shelter all"
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU/DC
  • Caradawc
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    Rex-Umbra wrote: »
    Really happy ZOS keeps and tracks data.

    Just a shame they can't analyse it without making mistakes ;)
  • HxC
    HxC
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • Drungly
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    The criteria was the ratio of surveys and obtained raw materials

    Learn to read people, it's not about mats alone. If you get 50+ mats from one survey something is wrong. It's about the ratio. There's no way you can legally obtain a higher than average amount of materials from one survey.
    Edited by Drungly on April 30, 2016 1:53PM
  • Tryxus
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    There is no way to trigger this by accident. So there was noone banned for exploiting that didnt not just exploit but multiple times on the same survey. Its ONE survey and you get 500 mats from it then auto ban. There is just no wya possible for them to accidentally do this over and over and over. Come on man.

    So I take it you never acidentally deposited smth in your bank that you didn't mean to?

    Again Im not detailing the exploit but it isnt just woops I stuck this in my bank. So what you are saying is completely irrelevant. There were deliberate steps you had to take to get unlimited mats from ONE survey. You cannot simply accidentally do it.

    It is relevant, cuz if a player accidentally triggered the exploit like that only once (sometimes without even knowing it), then he/she shouldn't be banned for it. That's an accident, and like I stated before: they happen. Both by the players and by ZOS
    "The Oak's Promise: stand strong, stay true, and shelter all"
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU/DC
  • kylewwefan
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    code65536 wrote: »
    So if I've been doing Writs every day for the last month and decided today I was going to clean out my inventory and actually use all those Surveys that have been piling up, I'm safe doing that? *remains skeptical*

    Actually, that's what I did yesterday.

    I had a bunch of surveys piled up, and I've moved a bunch to mules because I haven't had the time to go harvest them. When ZOS announced that they'll fix this exploit, I had guessed (incorrectly) that they'll fix it by making it character-bound (seemed like the easiest fix to me). If that was to be their solution, then I can't have my surveys sitting on a mule because then they'll be stuck on that character.

    So I relocated all my surveys back to my main and spent a couple of hours collecting the mats from all of them (including some duplicate surveys that were still in their containers).

    And everything's fine. I went on a legitimate survey spree yesterday because I thought that they might make it character-bound, and nothing happened.

    Finally, I do know a few people who did get suspended (nobody is being banned, BTW; it's all 3-day suspensions), and AFAIK, there were no false positives in any of those suspensions.

    (I'm not saying that their system is 100% fool-proof; I'm just saying that with the few data points that I do have access to, there were no false positives amongst them.)

    I'm glad no one is getting permenantly banned, but suspension does suck over the weekend. seems wrong to do to someone that has a 5000 crown banker....these are the people zenimax needs to keep happy after all....
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