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Bans Weren't For Surveys In Banks. They Were For VERY High Ratios Of Mats Per Survey

  • zyk
    zyk
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Oh please. There is no way this happens by mistake. It can only be intentional cheating.

    Permanently ban these cretins. The game is far better without them. There should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to cheating.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno by only suspending these cheaters for 3 days, you have guaranteed far more players will attempt the next exploit.
    Edited by zyk on April 30, 2016 5:22PM
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    zyk wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Oh please. There is no way this happens by mistake. It can only be intentional cheating.

    Permanently ban these cretins. The game is far better without them. There should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to cheating.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno by only suspending these cheaters for 3 days, you have guaranteed far more players will attempt the next exploit.

    I levelled up legerdemain skill line on two characters with opening chests, breaking door locks and pickpocketing NPCs. That's fine but takes forever.
    For my 3rd character, someone told me about some very generous sheep in some starter island.
    That's certainly NOT how legerdemain was supposed to be levelled, but it works.
    Is that cheating ? Is AOE'ing goblins in cracked wood cave in order to XP faaaaasst the way character were supposed to grow ? Is that cheating ?

    Frankly I hadn't thought about the survey + banker "trick", have no banker anyway, and I'm not banned, but IF I HAD thought about it and had a banker, I would probably have used it, not thinking that I was "cheating", just thinking "great, that works"... pretty much like with the sheep.

    That said, I don't think people should get away with it, but 3 day ban (and not perma ban) is fine, and people definitely don't deserve to be called names, because we would probably ALL have done pretty much the same. IMO.

    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 30, 2016 5:29PM
  • nimander99
    nimander99
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    If I got 500 raw materials from a survey I would have immediately reported it via the /bug reporting function in game. If you got 500 resources and didn't repot it then you messed up and you are going to have to wait for Zenimax to figure it out...
    I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
    "MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???

    Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP450
  • Reevster
    Reevster
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    Buffler wrote: »
    So many people making judgements who have got the exploit wrong. Im fed up of explaining it but moving surveys between different characters via your bank was not it. There is nothing wrong with doing that.

    Ya we know thats "not it" but it begs the question , is leveling up an alt for the sole purpose of farming writs "proper game play" ?

    People are saying that their lvl 18 char with lvl 40 say enchanting cant go and get the nods because the mobs in that zone are too high, well then thats obviously a farm alt and not one you normally play. maybe this needs to be looked into as well.
    Edited by Reevster on April 30, 2016 5:36PM
  • HxC
    HxC
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    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • zyk
    zyk
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    zyk wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Oh please. There is no way this happens by mistake. It can only be intentional cheating.

    Permanently ban these cretins. The game is far better without them. There should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to cheating.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno by only suspending these cheaters for 3 days, you have guaranteed far more players will attempt the next exploit.

    I levelled up legerdemain skill line on two characters with opening chests, breaking door locks and pickpocketing NPCs. That's fine but takes forever.
    For my 3rd character, someone told me about some very generous sheep in some starter island.
    That's certainly NOT how legerdemain was supposed to be levelled, but it works.
    Is that cheating ? Is AOE'ing goblins in cracked wood cave in order to XP faaaaasst the way character were supposed to grow ? Is that cheating ?

    Frankly I hadn't thought about the survey + banker "trick", have no banker anyway, and I'm not banned, but IF I HAD thought about it and had a banker, I would probably have used it, not thinking that I was "cheating", just thinking "great, that works"... pretty much like with the sheep.

    That said, I don't think people should get away with it, but 3 day ban (and not perma ban) is fine, and people definitely don't deserve to be called names, because we would probably ALL have done pretty much the same. IMO.

    Those aren't like-scenarios at all. It is clear writs are intended to be expended after the mats are collected. Using the banker to circumvent this is a clear exploit. There is no grey area.

    You have essentially outed yourself as a person who will cheat if given the opportunity. If you do in the future and are caught, you should be permanently banned for it to set an example for others like you.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Svalinn wrote: »
    Since all other threads are beeing closed and this seems to have become the "main one" i'll copy paste here what i wrote about this in another one:

    As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

    Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

    ...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

    Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

    Glad you copy/pasted this one here, I was actually commenting when Alan closed it.

    The german forum doesn't say "the criteria for banning people was a mats/survey ratio above 500". Kai said "the criteria used was the mats/survey ratio. Now if you come and tell me that you got over 500 mats from a single survey by pure luck, I just don't believe you". He was just giving an example, not a fixed figure.
    The translation was googled so it's pretty much rubbish.

    It is possible that people who have normally harvested a survey and then gone on farming normally for a couple of hours have been caught mistakenly. There are hundreds of reasons why a script can render wrong or partially wrong results. I'm not saying that everyone's innocent, but you should assume everyone's guilty either. We simply don't know, case by case.

    And... do we really have to know ... ?
    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 30, 2016 5:36PM
  • Korah_Eaglecry
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    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.
    Penniless Sellsword Company
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    Korith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the Grimjawl
    Tenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'Les
    Aban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia Severinus
    What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.

    Another problem is due to privacy laws I assume the mods cannot come out and say so and so did this at this time etc. So its always one sided with them claiming innocence and the mods bound by the rules.
  • HxC
    HxC
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    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.

    They send us automatic reply, could you read us please, we can't do anything against that, i'm waiting since yesterday for a reply from ZOS , it's people like you that start telling we are liars and we should shut up. WE WANT TO TALK TO ZOS TO EXPLAIN OUR CASE AND COME BACK TO THE GAME IS IT HARD DO UNDERSTAND ?!?
    Edited by HxC on April 30, 2016 5:44PM
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.

    They send us automatic reply, could you read us please, we can't do anything against that, i'm waiting since yesterday for a reply from ZOS , it's people like you that start telling we are liars and we should shut up. WE WANT TO TALK TO ZOS TO EXPLAIN OUR CASE AND COME BACK TO THE GAME IS IT HARD DO UNDERSTAND ?!?

    No thats not hard to understand you just are going about it the wrong way. You have to submit a ticket you cannot appeal a ban on the forums.
  • swirve
    swirve
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    I love how the anti banners think...i often suspect that it is not that theyve been banned but they want keep exploits open for future usage...bit like the cheese infested destiny days...
  • Jaronking
    Jaronking
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    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.

    They send us automatic reply, could you read us please, we can't do anything against that, i'm waiting since yesterday for a reply from ZOS , it's people like you that start telling we are liars and we should shut up. WE WANT TO TALK TO ZOS TO EXPLAIN OUR CASE AND COME BACK TO THE GAME IS IT HARD DO UNDERSTAND ?!?

    No thats not hard to understand you just are going about it the wrong way. You have to submit a ticket you cannot appeal a ban on the forums.
    Dude he already did that and their no one at ZOS to talk to about it.How do you not get that.After a Day their tired of waiting for no response and so came to the forums to get ZoS attention.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    swirve wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    I love how the anti banners think...i often suspect that it is not that theyve been banned but they want keep exploits open for future usage...bit like the cheese infested destiny days...

    They (we??) are not "anti-banners". Why do you always have to categorize things black or white ?
    They (we??) are just people who are aware of how little information we have to actually judge, and therefore avoid judgement altogether.
    Anything wrong with that ?
    You really think we just want to keep the field free fur our own abuses ?????
    Really ???????
  • Flynch
    Flynch
    ✭✭✭✭
    Was this exploit on the PTS before it hit live? Because if it was, then you can absolutely guarantee that players knew about it and kept quiet. *sadface*
  • HxC
    HxC
    ✭✭✭
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.

    They send us automatic reply, could you read us please, we can't do anything against that, i'm waiting since yesterday for a reply from ZOS , it's people like you that start telling we are liars and we should shut up. WE WANT TO TALK TO ZOS TO EXPLAIN OUR CASE AND COME BACK TO THE GAME IS IT HARD DO UNDERSTAND ?!?

    No thats not hard to understand you just are going about it the wrong way. You have to submit a ticket you cannot appeal a ban on the forums.

    You're love for witch-hunt is blinding you.
    "You call these baubles, well, it is with baubles that men are led… Do you think that you would be able to make men fight by reasoning? Never. That is good only for the scholar in his study. The soldier needs glory, distinctions, rewards." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    HxC wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    Ignorance of crime is not a defense. Otherwise people would simply claim they didnt know they couldnt do that and get off every time. As far as the thieves troves they just respawned quickly. There was nothing you had to do to make it respawn quickly. Thats the difference.

    I can see your point.Forgive my ignorance.I was offering my thoughts.Sorry.

    No you right you shouldn't be banned for exploit as exploiting means you intentionaly use a bug to gain an unfair advantage.

    Didnt I just apologize for having added my thoughts? Is getting your two cents in worth that much to you? Fine,go ahead.Rant.
    Personally.,I prefer the other more intelligent comment to mine,..instead of yours.

    (there's 2 "l"s in intentionally,btw.)

    Let's clarify , you're right people shouldn't be banned for exploiting if they use a bug without noticing it, because to exploit you need to intentionally use the bug to get and unfair advantage.

    Yes but this exploit could not have been done by accident. You would have had to put the survey in your bank knowing that it would not go away. Take it back out and repeat the process. You can't honestly believe somebody would do all those steps by accident.

    True, but people like me who doesn't purchased the assistant banker have their account suspended for survey exploiting. So the suspension is not about using the banker assistant but for gathering a "suspicious" amount of mats from a single map.

    But you can gather multiple times the same node with multiple maps you got from multiple characters and trigger the automatic suspension script.

    It's common for me to have to gather 3 or 4 times in a row the same map and it's like that from the begining of crafting dailies.With 6 characters doing all quest on a daily basis, i have 5+ maps each day.

    Except others have stated that theyve used multiple surveys in one location without tripping the script. So it seems that those claiming the opposite arent being as forthcoming. And are likely exploiters who just cant fess up to their own behavior.

    Yes, but it's the case believe it or not i don't care, now ZOS is aware they did a mistake with their auto suspension script.

    Do you really think i have trigger the map, then go back to my bank , return on survey site gather mats, then repeat ? (I don't even know if it's possible)
    Why i have done my craftings quests on all my characters (ZOS can check this too) if i was able to get infinite mats on a single map?

    I dont know you. Why would I believe ANYTHING you say if youve been swept up in this? Honestly with the revelations of how ZOS went about targeting the exploiters. I cant help but think all of these "innocent players" are just lies spread by the very people who knowningly took part in this and got caught. The innocent player would put a ticket in. Maybe comment in a thread related to this. They wouldnt participate in 20 some odd threads repeating how innocent they are and trying to start a forum fire because they think somehow posters here have any power or any real say on how things play out when ZOS hands out bans and suspensions. No this is the behavior of guilty parties that think if they convince a bunch of strangers of their innocence through nothing more than mere words and no proof. That itll somehow make it true.

    They send us automatic reply, could you read us please, we can't do anything against that, i'm waiting since yesterday for a reply from ZOS , it's people like you that start telling we are liars and we should shut up. WE WANT TO TALK TO ZOS TO EXPLAIN OUR CASE AND COME BACK TO THE GAME IS IT HARD DO UNDERSTAND ?!?

    No thats not hard to understand you just are going about it the wrong way. You have to submit a ticket you cannot appeal a ban on the forums.

    You're love for witch-hunt is blinding you.

    What? The fact is these mods cannot do anything about your ban. If you want to appeal your ban you have to submit a ticket. What is blind about that? If you are innocent the only way to prove it is to file a ticket. If for some reason you were banned unjustly they will unban you.

    https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/8540/~/how-can-i-appeal-a-ban-on-my-eso-account?
    Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on April 30, 2016 5:58PM
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Flynch wrote: »
    Was this exploit on the PTS before it hit live? Because if it was, then you can absolutely guarantee that players knew about it and kept quiet. *sadface*

    This exploit has been made possible by the personal bank assistants. While those were available on PTS with the test of Thieves' Guild, there was no new mechanic or material involved with this DLC, so there was no reason for anyone to actually do crafting writs on PTS. No point to do old boring stuff when there's so much new to discover.

    I doubt anyone has found out about this on PTS.

  • Flynch
    Flynch
    ✭✭✭✭
    Flynch wrote: »
    Was this exploit on the PTS before it hit live? Because if it was, then you can absolutely guarantee that players knew about it and kept quiet. *sadface*

    This exploit has been made possible by the personal bank assistants. While those were available on PTS with the test of Thieves' Guild, there was no new mechanic or material involved with this DLC, so there was no reason for anyone to actually do crafting writs on PTS. No point to do old boring stuff when there's so much new to discover.

    I doubt anyone has found out about this on PTS.

    I do hope so. Else it'd be something of a travesty!
  • ericmazateaub16_ESO
    ericmazateaub16_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    This exploit involved using the mobile bank npc.
    When they banned, they checked the amount of mats but not if the player owned a mobile bank.

    Adding this simple "where" condition to their selection request would have made it closer to the real target.
    Of course, it wouldn't have been perfect but at least it would have been closer to a balance.


    It would be nice to have someone with the proper legal background to post the required information to sue them so that they can have a taste of their own medecin.

    Afterall if they don't care about justice with their mindless and obnoxious decision.
    We shall not refrain from making them pay their professional failure.
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    This exploit involved using the mobile bank npc.
    When they banned, they checked the amount of mats but not if the player owned a mobile bank.

    Adding this simple "where" condition to their selection request would have made it closer to the real target.
    Of course, it wouldn't have been perfect but at least it would have been closer to a balance.


    It would be nice to have someone with the proper legal background to post the required information to sue them so that they can have a taste of their own medecin.

    Afterall if they don't care about justice with their mindless and obnoxious decision.
    We shall not refrain from making them pay their professional failure.

    But you can use anyone's banker. So just not owning one really isnt proof.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This exploit involved using the mobile bank npc.
    When they banned, they checked the amount of mats but not if the player owned a mobile bank.
    .../...
    Afterall if they don't care about justice with their mindless and obnoxious decision.
    We shall not refrain from making them pay their professional failure.

    Witch hunters vs. ZOS haters...
    1 point for witch hunters. You don't need to own a banker to use a banker.

  • Korah_Eaglecry
    Korah_Eaglecry
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    This exploit involved using the mobile bank npc.
    When they banned, they checked the amount of mats but not if the player owned a mobile bank.

    Adding this simple "where" condition to their selection request would have made it closer to the real target.
    Of course, it wouldn't have been perfect but at least it would have been closer to a balance.


    It would be nice to have someone with the proper legal background to post the required information to sue them so that they can have a taste of their own medecin.

    Afterall if they don't care about justice with their mindless and obnoxious decision.
    We shall not refrain from making them pay their professional failure.

    Pay how? You understand by next weekend there will be another flavor of the week topic for everyone to scream at each other over and this will be forgotten. You dont have a class action lawsuit on your hands. At best ZOS comes out and admits they found some innocent people caught up in this. Most likely that wont be the case as no one here claiming to be innocent conveniently cant prove their innocence.
    Penniless Sellsword Company
    Captain Paramount - Jorrhaq Vhent
    Korith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the Grimjawl
    Tenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'Les
    Aban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia Severinus
    What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax
  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    swirve wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    I love how the anti banners think...i often suspect that it is not that theyve been banned but they want keep exploits open for future usage...bit like the cheese infested destiny days...

    Anti banners? lol Guess you're a "tldr" kinda guy, right?

    A bit of compassion for the actual innocents who got caught in the crossfire as ZOS banned the exploiters wouldn't hurt, you know
    "The Oak's Promise: stand strong, stay true, and shelter all"
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU/DC
  • swirve
    swirve
    ✭✭✭✭
    swirve wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Accidents happen:

    - A player could've triggered the exploit by accident
    - ZOS could've banned a player who didn't exploit

    I love how the anti banners think...i often suspect that it is not that theyve been banned but they want keep exploits open for future usage...bit like the cheese infested destiny days...

    They (we??) are not "anti-banners". Why do you always have to categorize things black or white ?
    They (we??) are just people who are aware of how little information we have to actually judge, and therefore avoid judgement altogether.
    Anything wrong with that ?
    You really think we just want to keep the field free fur our own abuses ?????
    Really ???????

    ZoS has more information than any of you anti banners...every exploitable game ive played over a long time has always had an anti ban contingent...most often comprised by those who argue along the lines of...

    If it can be done why not
    If i can do things more efficently why not
    If i can get an advantage over others why not..

    So on and so forth...

    My view is zero tolerance on the selfish exploiters ehose action impact on others...be this wrecking markets for self gain to actual pvp advantages and rewards from exploiting pve..

    The fact a number of you try and blame zos saying they ban innoncents when actually they know far more about the situation than you arm chair experts on what zos does and does not know is just laughable

    But please provide concrete proof that would stand up in court that any innocent person has been banned. Hearsay from your cousin best friends aunty in a forum is not proof.
    Edited by swirve on April 30, 2016 6:20PM
  • Tandor
    Tandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Volkodav wrote: »
    If someone has no clue that this isnt supposed to happen,they shouldnt be banned.Someone might just think they found a glitch and is using it until it is fixed. Not realizing they could be banned for it. I dont think it's cool to exploit a glitch,but everyone did it with the troves until that got fixed and no one got banned.Perhaps this is the same situation,..only they broke rules they had no idea existed.

    As you yourself state, finding a glitch and using it until it is fixed is indeed the very definition of a bannable exploit.

    My only concern in these situations is the use of the term "ban". Most are only suspended and then for a trivial time. That isn't a ban. Exploiters should be perma-banned, that is the only way of encouraging players to report a "glitch" rather than "using it until it is fixed". There should of course be a right of appeal and a clear explanation should be given to the player as to the reason for the ban.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Flynch wrote: »
    Was this exploit on the PTS before it hit live? Because if it was, then you can absolutely guarantee that players knew about it and kept quiet. *sadface*

    This exploit has been made possible by the personal bank assistants. While those were available on PTS with the test of Thieves' Guild, there was no new mechanic or material involved with this DLC, so there was no reason for anyone to actually do crafting writs on PTS. No point to do old boring stuff when there's so much new to discover.

    I doubt anyone has found out about this on PTS.

    Based on a description posted earlier that revealed how this exploit works...

    To me it seems like the exploit has probably been in the game since they introduced Survey Reports. It was only discovered after the banker came out because banker is so darned convenient. I would be surprised if this was exclusive to the banker.

    Bottom line is that, yes, it could have been discovered on PTS and not reported, but it is also possible that it was already known and the banker made it a lot more practical. The banker allowed it to go mainstream.

    You have been asserting opinions about false positive detection resulting in bans, and I just wanted to offer my opinion on this, as well.

    Transferring items between characters using the bank is a normal behavior. Storing items, including Surveys, in the bank is a normal behavior. Farming and collecting hundreds of mats is also normal, when done over a normal period of time. I have seen nothing in the forum to indicate a normal behavior that would result in a ban, and this is supported by the fact that there are not hundreds, if not thousands, of people complaining about bans.

    People who have been engaging in, and continue to engage in, normal behavior are apparently at no risk of being banned.

    What we are seeing, in the realm of bans, is abnormal behavior being detected. That would include people deliberately exploiting, as well as some mysterious abnormal behavior that is, as of yet, unmentioned in the forum. No behavior has been identified that could draw a ban, except for the exploit, that does not hit a normal behavior that would be catching people in far greater numbers than what we are seeing. Maybe not everyone who got banned was exploiting the survey reports, and maybe some were banned unjustly, but they were doing something unusual to get them onto the radar, and that something unusual must be something that the vast majority of players are not doing. So far, nothing has come to light to say what that behavior could be.

    I don't want to see someone get falsely accused, and banned, any more than any other reasonable person would. If there is something they were doing that is a false positive, I am sure that ZOS would love to know about it so they could evaluate what to do about it.
    Edited by Elsonso on April 30, 2016 6:51PM
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Kippesnikke
    Kippesnikke
    ✭✭✭✭
    i call this good marketing ><
    bring a banker to the store for 5000 crowns.
    keep the exploit in the game for as long as possible.
    make people buy the banker.
    when earned enough fix the exploit.

    (this is in jest btw before people start QQ)
    PC-EU-EP
    Northborn DK tank
    Hodor
    Pandora's Promise
    vMoL cleared on VR16 #World1st
    Worlds #1 vMoL speed run [VR16]
  • Rafishul
    Rafishul
    ✭✭
    I didn't think I could be less sympathetic to an issue until this thread came along. Thanks for knocking the bar down a bit further for me.
    Main: v16 Mag NB DPS
    Alts: v16 NB Tank, v16 DK Tank (ret., crafter), v16 Sorc mDPS, v16 Templar heals

    twitch.tv/theraficast
  • Xjcon
    Xjcon
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nénlindë wrote: »
    Nénlindë wrote: »
    My entire guild does surveys legit every day. Strange nobody I know has been banned... Baffling :/

    I do writs all the time too. I have 4 characters that do crafting. I wasnt banned either.

    That is so strange! It's almost as if people are lying and pleading their cases because they were caught red handed? :|

    ^ pretty much this. I just gained a certain level of respect that I never had for the people who deal with the exploiters. And by leaving this thread up to show they were serious is awesome.
    Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
    Jcon V16 Orc DK
    Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
    Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB
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