Official Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

vortexman11

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

flguy147ub17_ESO

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

I havent watched it but please dont tell me this is true. WTH is their problem, there are 100s of responses on fixing the class and they talk about animations??? Fix magicka DKs,. News Flash ZOS, Dragonblood completely sucks. And when your main dps ability gets nicknamed Wet Noodle then it sucks too.

Ghost-Shot

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

I havent watched it but please dont tell me this is true. WTH is their problem, there are 100s of responses on fixing the class and they talk about animations??? Fix magicka DKs,. News Flash ZOS, Dragonblood completely sucks. And when your main dps ability gets nicknamed Wet Noodle then it sucks too.

Listen a very knowledgeable Templar in another thread told me its simply a L2P issue and if I want heals play a Templar. So basically roll a Templar or git gud...

flguy147ub17_ESO

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

I havent watched it but please dont tell me this is true. WTH is their problem, there are 100s of responses on fixing the class and they talk about animations??? Fix magicka DKs,. News Flash ZOS, Dragonblood completely sucks. And when your main dps ability gets nicknamed Wet Noodle then it sucks too.

Listen a very knowledgeable Templar in another thread told me its simply a L2P issue and if I want heals play a Templar. So basically roll a Templar or git gud...

But you templar buddy is sitting back this in PVP : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rdfC5nMB1s

SanTii.92

Hi, just want to say that I can't believe Zos understands that the current state of StamDks is remotely close to any attempt of healthy balance. Have a good day.

Armitas

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

I remember when I tried to get a DragonKnight question answered on ESO live a few months back and everyone began to repeat the same question. Rather than answer the question they shut it down and told us to wait a few months. Wrobel was right there to receive the question but they interrupted and told us to essentially stop asking that question right there on the video.

ESO lives seem to be for answering questions they can give a satisfactory answer too. As for these official feedbacks? Who knows, all I know is that they waste a tremendous amount of our time every PTS by deceiving us into believing anything we do here matters. I have never played an MMO where there is so little meaningful communication. As far as I saw we had 1 reply from an actual developer, and it was about tanking.

We have a wonderful game, but whatever system in ZOS is responsible for the current state of the mDK, and is responsible for it continuing to be in this condition for a year by flatly ignoring it, that is a system with a problem.

Runkorko

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

I havent watched it but please dont tell me this is true. WTH is their problem, there are 100s of responses on fixing the class and they talk about animations??? Fix magicka DKs,. News Flash ZOS, Dragonblood completely sucks. And when your main dps ability gets nicknamed Wet Noodle then it sucks too.

Listen a very knowledgeable Templar in another thread told me its simply a L2P issue and if I want heals play a Templar. So basically roll a Templar or git gud...

Mother flower templar told you how to play DK ?.... and WTF "very knowledgeable" means ... He graduated from Harvard or smth ... Jesus Beam spammers and zerg surfers.

Strider_Roshin

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but can we have empowering chains cause poison damage since it's mainly stamina characters that use it?

If you are using it on a stam DK you are doing it wrong.

Lol ignorance is bliss. Enjoy my empowered Dawnbreaker of Smiting with a 40% increased in damage because ZOS, and its infinite wisdom allowed us to double dip from the champion tree.

You would be better off empowering with radiant magelight and using invasion for the stun.

Why would use mage light for empower if I can use chains? Considering it's a gap closer after all that has no minimum distance, gets me out of roots, and is not limited by terrain.

Toraf

The only thing ZOS can say about Magicka DK is...

DUTCH_REAPER

I know we (mDKs) were OP in pre 1.5 but come on ZOS I think we as a class have paid for it long enough and then some. Time to fix the rest of those skills that need fixing and maybe a passive or two?

-love the game, HATE what your doing though. Time to take a round turn.

Runkorko

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I know we (mDKs) were OP in pre 1.5 but come on ZOS I think we as a class have paid for it long enough and then some. Time to fix the rest of those skills that need fixing and maybe a passive or two?

-love the game, HATE what your doing though. Time to take a round turn.

Not true. Vamp ult was op. And the way we get ult was op. You cant call one class op only because ppl are braindead and not move away from bat swarm or big red *** on ground/ aka standard. And sadly but ZoS dont care about us (mDKs)

flguy147ub17_ESO

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I know we (mDKs) were OP in pre 1.5 but come on ZOS I think we as a class have paid for it long enough and then some. Time to fix the rest of those skills that need fixing and maybe a passive or two?

-love the game, HATE what your doing though. Time to take a round turn.

Not true. Vamp ult was op. And the way we get ult was op. You cant call one class op only because ppl are braindead and not move away from bat swarm or big red *** on ground/ aka standard. And sadly but ZoS dont care about us (mDKs)

The standard, impulse, dark talons combo probably was too strong back in the day , kinda reminds me of the current wrecking blow, dragon leap execute combo right now. Both too strong of a combo for my taste personally. Its ok we get dark talons, whip to proc flame lash, Whoopie our enemy still has a ton of health left lol.

DUTCH_REAPER

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I know we (mDKs) were OP in pre 1.5 but come on ZOS I think we as a class have paid for it long enough and then some. Time to fix the rest of those skills that need fixing and maybe a passive or two?

-love the game, HATE what your doing though. Time to take a round turn.

Not true. Vamp ult was op. And the way we get ult was op. You cant call one class op only because ppl are braindead and not move away from bat swarm or big red *** on ground/ aka standard. And sadly but ZoS dont care about us (mDKs)

At that time we all got ult the same. I'm not going to say mDK wasn't OP back in the day. Cuz it was. The 1vX was strooong lol. It was simple play and op. Now it's complicated and defnly not OP but not exactly ok either ha ha. Just my opinion though. Either way I really REALLY hope they give it the little more love it requires.

Armitas

All this feedback and he talked about DK for..one...whole.. minute, and most of that was them trying to find someone to use "the claw" on. The vomit animation should never have left the design floor. We shouldn't have to give any feedback at all for ZOS to realize vomit is not cool.

I get no impression from them that they have any love for any of the classes, and I have never experienced that in any game I have every played. In every other game I have played you could always tell that any particular developer loved the class they were assigned too. I can't see that here. No one that loved this class would have tried to give us vomit and think it okay. The whole thing with them is just this sterile environment of tweaks and balances, no love, no excitement. Just cut here, saw there, move that, replace this... they aren't building the life of the class.

Neowit

.

Oronell

Armitas wrote: »

All this feedback and he talked about DK for..one...whole.. minute, and most of that was them trying to find someone to use "the claw" on. The vomit animation should never have left the design floor. We shouldn't have to give any feedback at all for ZOS to realize vomit is not cool.

I get no impression from them that they have any love for any of the classes, and I have never experienced that in any game I have every played. In every other game I have played you could always tell that any particular developer loved the class they were assigned too. I can't see that here. No one that loved this class would have tried to give us vomit and think it okay. The whole thing with them is just this sterile environment of tweaks and balances, no love, no excitement. Just cut here, saw there, move that, replace this... they aren't building the life of the class.

I'm sorry but I have to agree to this. The puke animation was "realistic" but not cool; while the new animation is unrealistic but "cool". It took me all but 5 minutes to figure out how to work poison into the DK theme without ruining the archetype's "brand". Maybe my standards are too high but I expect the same of every nerd worth his/her weight. Sometimes its just as simple as answering the question: "What do our customers love about the class we created"; while being mindful that any proposed changes should either meet or exceed their expectations and loyalty to the product. Since I'm familiar with the class (DK since launch and haven't invested time in any other characters) and I know a bit about volcanoes it was easy to connect the dots (no pun intended).

Anyway, in light of the challenges, I think they did well to assign poison abilities to DKs and its possible things were a bit rushed. With the release of DB I'm going to test a Nightblade I recently created (Kills-Without-Qualms) and although poison would have fit well I think disease damage is also a good fit for this class. Possibly because in my imagination some NB's wouldn't care much for the cleanliness of their tools of the trade.

Toc de Malsvi

Oronell wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

All this feedback and he talked about DK for..one...whole.. minute, and most of that was them trying to find someone to use "the claw" on. The vomit animation should never have left the design floor. We shouldn't have to give any feedback at all for ZOS to realize vomit is not cool.

I get no impression from them that they have any love for any of the classes, and I have never experienced that in any game I have every played. In every other game I have played you could always tell that any particular developer loved the class they were assigned too. I can't see that here. No one that loved this class would have tried to give us vomit and think it okay. The whole thing with them is just this sterile environment of tweaks and balances, no love, no excitement. Just cut here, saw there, move that, replace this... they aren't building the life of the class.

I'm sorry but I have to agree to this. The puke animation was "realistic" but not cool; while the new animation is unrealistic but "cool". It took me all but 5 minutes to figure out how to work poison into the DK theme without ruining the archetype's "brand". Maybe my standards are too high but I expect the same of every nerd worth his/her weight. Sometimes its just as simple as answering the question: "What do our customers love about the class we created"; while being mindful that any proposed changes should either meet or exceed their expectations and loyalty to the product. Since I'm familiar with the class (DK since launch and haven't invested time in any other characters) and I know a bit about volcanoes it was easy to connect the dots (no pun intended).

Anyway, in light of the challenges, I think they did well to assign poison abilities to DKs and its possible things were a bit rushed. With the release of DB I'm going to test a Nightblade I recently created (Kills-Without-Qualms) and although poison would have fit well I think disease damage is also a good fit for this class. Possibly because in my imagination some NB's wouldn't care much for the cleanliness of their tools of the trade.

My only problem with all of this, is that its a hack fix for a problem they created by not considering balance in the first place. The only reason DRAGON KNIGHTS are having to suddenly have poison morphs is to bring stamina morphs in line with CP, of which they have still failed to change Flames of Oblivion, which gives WEAPON critical, to poison damage.

ESO could have easily from the get go left Stamina as a purely utility resource for block, dodge, sprint. They could have made all skills cost magicka, and just have them differentiate scaling based on weapon damage, weapon crit, and maximum magicka, or spell damage, spell crit, and maximum magicka. They created imbalance and then tried to hack fix balance it along the way, it was extremely easy to predict the problems they encountered with scaling and number of skills dedicated to stam versus magicka.

The introduction and handling of CP was equally as bad putting magicka scaling in physical tree's while putting some stamina abilities under spell tree's. If they wanted to mix it up that way they should have equally mixed up the passive bonus' of tree's, instead they created super builds that took advantage of easily stacked CP, while making other options virtually impossible due to CP limitations.

This whole system reeks of some designer who is not even considering the outcome but only throwing out idea's and running with them. I think it was wrobel who said "when we started we just wanted to throw together some really fun skills", whoever it was I lost a lot of faith towards the future of this game after watching that particular ESO live.

Armitas

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

This whole system reeks of some designer who is not even considering the outcome but only throwing out idea's and running with them. I think it was wrobel who said "when we started we just wanted to throw together some really fun skills", whoever it was I lost a lot of faith towards the future of this game after watching that particular ESO live.

That is exactly the way it feels. The classes don't seem to have any vision anymore. They aren't creating a fictional life, they are creating a spread sheet with a 3d avatar. You don't throw together skills into a pile that are called classes. The class comes first, their purpose, their nature, their strengths, their weakness, their lineage, and their birth. Their abilities will flow from the life of the class. not the other way around.

(Battle Chant of the Intrepid Two Hundred)
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
If you attack us, you will meet talons.
If you strike us, you will eat spikes.
If you injure us, our wounds will close.
If you anger us, you will burn.
If you run from us, we will pounce upon you.
You cannot win. We cannot lose.
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.

There is the life of the class. This should be hanging on your design room wall and should be read every time you develop the class. You should live and breath who the dragonknight is, think about the class, what they are about, why they are awesome and let the class show you the ability it has.

If you knew who the dragonknight was you would know that we do not vomit. If you loved the class like we do you would have given us the green fire without us even having to ask.

Anhedonie

Good job, ZOS.
Magicka DK's place in a trash can now.

Well, at least stamina version is getting some love.

Oronell

Armitas wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

This whole system reeks of some designer who is not even considering the outcome but only throwing out idea's and running with them. I think it was wrobel who said "when we started we just wanted to throw together some really fun skills", whoever it was I lost a lot of faith towards the future of this game after watching that particular ESO live.

That is exactly the way it feels. The classes don't seem to have a vision. They aren't creating a fictional life, they are creating a spread sheet with a 3d avatar.

(Battle Chant of the Intrepid Two Hundred)
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.
If you attack us, you will meet talons.
If you strike us, you will eat spikes.
If you injure us, our wounds will close.
If you anger us, you will burn.
If you run from us, we will pounce upon you.
You cannot win. We cannot lose.
We are dragon knights. We are dragons.

There is the life of the class. This should be hanging on your design room wall and should be read every time you develop the class. You should live and breath who the dragonknight is, think about the class, what they are about, why they are awesome and let the class show you the ability it has.

If you knew who the dragonknight was you would know that we do not vomit. You don't throw together skills into a pile that are called classes. The class comes first, their purpose, their nature, their strengths, their weakness, their lineage, and their birth. Their abilities will flow from the life of the class. not the other way around.

Both that and.. DRAGONKNIGHTS: "These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them."
―Official description

GRYM.LOCKE

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

New animations .................

what new animations

Some one with Microsoft paint went in an pained searing strike green

Some one with 2 layers on adobe went in copied two layers one orange one greenish

there is nothing new in my honest opinion

Ghost-Shot

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but can we have empowering chains cause poison damage since it's mainly stamina characters that use it?

If you are using it on a stam DK you are doing it wrong.

Lol ignorance is bliss. Enjoy my empowered Dawnbreaker of Smiting with a 40% increased in damage because ZOS, and its infinite wisdom allowed us to double dip from the champion tree.

You would be better off empowering with radiant magelight and using invasion for the stun.

Why would use mage light for empower if I can use chains? Considering it's a gap closer after all that has no minimum distance, gets me out of roots, and is not limited by terrain.

No stun and negligible damage, stampede or invasion will work way better for you. And honestly how can you suggest that the only gap closer a magicka DK can reasonably use should be a stam ability? That would be stupid.

Shadesofkin

I'm continuing to see a lack of smart healing from Cauterize, I'd really like to see this ability given some direction, either nearest ally or ally with the lowest health or ally nearest the boss etc etc.

ZoM_Head

Are you seeing this Zenimax?

14 pages how the magicka Dragonnight is crippled since Imperial City update, ESO live comes on, you talk about all classes magicka and stamina exept the magicka dragon night.

Only reponse to the dragon night is simply change of animation according to our feedback for the stamina morph options.

Yet the rest of the feedback for the whole class is left alone (magicka wise).

Armitas

Hope?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

Please don't give us more disappointing information

Hoping for 8 pages of class skill changes and updates the rest you can edit / omit as we don't care

The number of class skill changes are fairly small in this patch, but there are more that will be put in between this patch and the Dark Brotherhood launch. We'll be popping into each of the class feedback threads this week as well to get a better idea of what questions we can help answer.

Be thinking of what we really need, not just want this week. Refine your thoughts, write them down, think of our weaknesses, what holds us back etc so if they show up they can see our problems clearly.

Jesh

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Meaningful feedback:
1. Whip - needs to be boosted in damage or utility, make it a little more vicious. I think this could be boosted to be a more important skill in the DK arsenal (Personally I think it is also a good candidate for a stam friendly toxic morph, but that may be just me).
2. Dragon's Blood and its Morph - need a fix (in PVP the 33% is not returned), something else, lifesteal maybe? right now they aren't useful enough.
3. Obsidian Shield and its Morphs - need a fix, make the shield stronger or keep adding utility to it. It is no good right now, especially in PVP.
4. Inferno, Ash Cloud, and Inhale - these need to hit harder or modify the fighting environment even more to the DK's advantage. Right now they just aren't strong enough.
5. Reflective Scales - I would really consider increasing the duration of the Scales to 6 seconds to match the shields.
6. Passives in Ardent Flame - do some of these need to be revisited in light of new Poison morphs?

BlackMadara

Since we are on to meaningful feedback, some things I'd like to see:
1. Dragon blood given a flat value heal scaling of max HP or spelling damage and magicka that increases by a percentage scaomg with missing HP (hearing ward shield with just a heal). Or anything to help the skills in cyrodil.
2. Dodge chance while standing in cinder storm.

That's all I really want but some other possibilities:
3. Scaled armor giving physical resist and spell resist.
4. Ferocious leap magic morph and standard poison morph.
5. Dots exploding for a percentage of damage they would've done on the rest of their duration when purged.

Recremen

vortexman11 wrote: »

I love how the only "DragonKnight Feedback" on ESO Live was about the new animations.

Hi ZOS I heard you were popping back in, so while everyone else is discussing combat I want another round of discourse on the animations.

• If we're really stuck with this green fire thing can we have it also apply to Corrosive Armor? It currently still has that gross rot bubbling going on.
• If we're really stuck with the green fire, can we have our enemies burst into green fire and not have the poison gas thing going on?
• While we're at it, can we go back to the "burst into a pile of ash" effect if the killing blow was one of our fire attacks instead of the dissolve effect?
• The sound FX all need another pass now that we have the fire theme back. the old Unstable Flame sound effect was especially nice.
• Finally, the green smoke on Noxious Breath is a little intense and unnecessary. Just the flame burst would be fine.

I really and truly want the orange flames back, but at least the green flames are mostly on-theme. It's just such a clashing color palette and needs a few kinks worked out still. If the above can be addressed, it will at least be in keeping with the DK themes.

Armitas

These OP poisons are going to make anyone who doesn't already have purge on their bar put it on their bar. This is really going to kill our dots which are already half dead from battle spirit because it means they will get purged on any provocation. It also means we take a healing hit from burning embers due to the loss of damage.

This is bad for us, and we don't need more bad news.

Adenoma

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , I had seen that you were popping into the official patch notes thread and the sorcerer threads. Is there any plan to drop by the DK thread? I think it's great that ZOS is a little more open to a dialogue between the developers and players. While I don't want my DK to be OP (which I fear stamDK might be a little too strong next patch with some newly V16 item sets), I would love magDK to get a bit of rebalance. Just for consistency's sake, I'll list a couple issues that seem pretty uniform for magDK enthusiasts:

1.) Please make Dragon's Blood and its morphs viable in PvP. Right now they're very underpowered relative to restoration staff skills, as well as the healing options available to other classes. Personally, I really hate being forced to use a restoration staff and I think that making DB a viable heal again will increase build diversity. That seems healthy from a game design/meta perspective.

2.) Just like with Incapacitating Strike, I think that Lava Whip and morphs need a slight rebalance to their damage. Nobody's asking for a huge change, but something to make it more competitive.

3.) I think that it's worth considering restoring major evasion to Cinderstorm. Right now, that's a useless skill in PvP. Albeit, it's a strong skill in PvE. But frankly, the positioning for the ground-based DOT is totally different in those formats - one will be placed as a "house" to defend and the other will just lay under a mob. Consider that you have two morphs now, with one relatively underpowered (with respect to both PvE and PvP) compared to the other (which happens to be more PvE-focused). I can't imagine that this is an overpowered mechanic given that nearly all stamina builds run Shuffle and NBs run Double Take.

4.) A source of magicka-based mobility. People have proposed this on Wings, and I think that makes a bit of sense. It seems reasonable that you move faster for a couple seconds when you're flapping huge wings. I know that this is potentially risky because someone like a bow user could string dodge rolls with wings activations to sprint around, so I don't have huge hopes there.