shield stacking was never a problem, hardened ward is.

Lyar09

Uploaded by Yoyuyi and commented by him as well. He doesn't have a forum account so I'm helping him get this message out there. To everyone about to comment: "I never said I SHOULD win this fight nor am I saying I even CAN win this fight. Yes, I am spamming wings and wings itself might need a nerf as well, but that is not the point of this thread. The point is about Hardened Ward and that's it."

Input?

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahZLLB89kDY&feature=youtu.be

Ourorboros

Nerf all NERF threads!!!!

GreenSoup2HoT

From the footage, it doesn't look like healing or shield's are the problem. It's resource sustain.

Emma_Overload

I've had fights with DKs go on forever like that... but why is that a problem? All your video shows me is that you and the other guy were evenly balanced.

Maybe the other player should post a thread begging for Scales to be nerfed so that he can Overload you in one shot! Is that the kind of fight you want?

Yoyuyi999

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I've had fights with DKs go on forever like that... but why is that a problem? All your video shows me is that you and the other guy were evenly balanced.

Maybe the other player should post a thread begging for Scales to be nerfed so that he can Overload you in one shot! Is that the kind of fight you want?

He's a very good player. If you read my input I said wings also might need a nerf but the point of this thread was about hardened. Learning sorc was the easiest thing I could have done in this game while still being effective compared to other classes. Just my input.

Yoyuyi999

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

From the footage, it doesn't look like healing or shield's are the problem. It's resource sustain.

Totally agree. From both standpoints, I shouldn't be able to sustain so well the way I am and he shouldn't either. Well said.

Cody

wings as in scales? no, it does not need a nerf. it was nerfed once already, it does not need a second.

in regards to the damage shield issue, yes it is indeed an issue. I have seen sorcerers CONSISTENTLY pull up 18-20K shields/shield stacks while still maintaining high offensive capability and seemingly never run out of mana, it would take entire groups or someone around the level of Sypher to kill them. However, the issue lies with the way resources are done in this game.

Of course someone is going to be able to constantly pull up damage shields when mana pools can go up to 30-40K and resource regain can be brought to the mid 2Ks-3Ks, im not even putting heavy attacks or potions into the mix; and the fact that hardened ward scales off of mana is the reason a sorcerer is able to do what he or she can do, having powerful shields AND offense at the same time. Do I want sorcerers nerfed? No, we do not need nerfs; instead the way resources work in this game needs to be looked at. I personally think soft caps should return; but that is just my opinion. Many people think constant damage shield stack/spam is a good thing, and they have the right to have that opinion, i just simply disagree with the majority in this issue.

Yoyuyi999

Cody wrote: »

wings as in scales? no, it does not need a nerf. it was nerfed once already, it does not need a second.

in regards to the damage shield issue, yes it is indeed an issue. I have seen sorcerers CONSISTENTLY pull up 18-20K shields/shield stacks while still maintaining high offensive capability and seemingly never run out of mana, it would take entire groups or someone around the level of Sypher to kill them. However, the issue lies with the way resources are done in this game.

Of course someone is going to be able to constantly pull up damage shields when mana pools can go up to 30-40K and resource regain can be brought to the mid 2Ks-3Ks, im not even putting heavy attacks or potions into the mix; and the fact that hardened ward scales off of mana is the reason a sorcerer is able to do what he or she can do, having powerful shields AND offense at the same time. Do I want sorcerers nerfed? No, we do not need nerfs; instead the way resources work in this game needs to be looked at. I personally think soft caps should return; but that is just my opinion. Many people think constant damage shield stack/spam is a good thing, and they have the right to have that opinion, i just simply disagree with the majority in this issue.

Exactly man. The resource thing would not only solve shield spam, it would also spam wing spam. Love your explanation.

Pinja

Ya know what if sustain is such a problem for everyone that people are saying nerf this nerf that I can't insta kill him, Increase the damage table for all classes except Night blades since they don't need to sustain in a fight they avoid damage. That way every one can pop their jolly's about not being bogged down in combat & nightblades can still be the same prancing baster ds.

FullBlownBeast

Both hardened ward and healing ward need to be toned down. These two skills are way to stupid. Things tipped to far in magicka builds favor with the CP changes and 0 changes to most stamina counter part of classes.

tennant94

'hardened ward is the problem' lmao. He couldn't kill you either.

Yoyuyi999

tennant94 wrote: »

'hardened ward is the problem' lmao. He couldn't kill you either.

Read the input. He couldn't kill me because every other attack was him using Hardened Ward. He never fully committed to killing me before putting Hardened back on. Unlike other sorcs, who do actually use abilities to kill me.

Mojmir

nerf everything, buff sticks and stones

Ernest145

I don't think this game should be balanced around 1v1's but that's just my opinion.

aLi3nZ

Well I was on pts and had a few fights like that with dk. Problem is my sustain is pretty terrible with only like 1400 Magika recovery and the majority of my attacks are reflected. Therefore I run out of Magika and can't do anything but a little attack and hardened Ward. Annoying for both dk and me. I wil be adjusting my build when I get some time. Don't know how to get silk etc in pts or if I should even bother and just use template sets instead? So much fun dueling anyhow but I'm seeing some insane damage on me I've never come across though. 16k meteor. 12k assassins will or something for example.

Dyride

Hardened Ward could be scaled back 10% and sorcs would be fine.

Healing Ward is actually the culprit and worst offender for shields.

The only reason why people QQ about Sorcs is because they have the mobility to use Healing Ward+Streak and reset the fight.

Edziu

Cody wrote: »

wings as in scales? no, it does not need a nerf. it was nerfed once already, it does not need a second.

in regards to the damage shield issue, yes it is indeed an issue. I have seen sorcerers CONSISTENTLY pull up 18-20K shields/shield stacks while still maintaining high offensive capability and seemingly never run out of mana, it would take entire groups or someone around the level of Sypher to kill them. However, the issue lies with the way resources are done in this game.

Of course someone is going to be able to constantly pull up damage shields when mana pools can go up to 30-40K and resource regain can be brought to the mid 2Ks-3Ks......

ye, my few friends on sorc are trying to get 50k+ max magice, when now they have 45k-48k also on pvp so gg

Prabooo

Pinja wrote: »

Increase the damage table for all classes except Night blades since they don't need to sustain in a fight they avoid damage.

Pardon my ignorance, please enlighten us how does a Nightblade avoid damage in a fight? Are you talking about the infamous and useless CLOAK?

Tankqull

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

'hardened ward is the problem' lmao. He couldn't kill you either.

Read the input. He couldn't kill me because every other attack was him using Hardened Ward. He never fully committed to killing me before putting Hardened back on. Unlike other sorcs, who do actually use abilities to kill me.

and why does he have to use hardend ward every second abilitie usage because it provides so much mitigation that two consecutive attacks would leave him with his trousers down his knees...

and regarding your dmg you are either aswell a heavy sustain build or have missed entirely the existance of "shattering blows".

Forestd16b14_ESO

Said it once saying it again.

Shields just need to be brung into the major/minor system.

Emma_Overload

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Said it once saying it again.

Shields just need to be brung into the major/minor system.

I would be fine with this if they ALSO got rid of the Battle Spirit 50% shield nerf.

Cody

Pinja wrote: »

Ya know what if sustain is such a problem for everyone that people are saying nerf this nerf that I can't insta kill him, Increase the damage table for all classes except Night blades since they don't need to sustain in a fight they avoid damage. That way every one can pop their jolly's about not being bogged down in combat & nightblades can still be the same prancing baster ds.

"NBs dont need to sustain in a fight" that is false.

Cody

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Said it once saying it again.

Shields just need to be brung into the major/minor system.

I would be fine with this if they ALSO got rid of the Battle Spirit 50% shield nerf.

good sithis no, then we would have consistent 25-30K damage shields, maybe if shields were put into the major/minor system this could work

Jsmalls

"Nerf scissors, rock is okay. "
Signed Paper.

I'm a sorcerer, and Wings are a huuuuuge advantage against Sorcerers. It takes away our main CC and damage dealer as well as force pulse and staff attacks. For most Sorcerers that 50% of their attacks. And that's leaves us with endless fury (damage is laughable) and curse. And that's just not enough to burst a good DK that's keeps up their wings.

Every class has its own defense. Surge was nerfed to unreliability, and hardened ward is expensive to keep casting. If you're a Magicka DK it's Harness Magicka that's your problem because it gives back resources and can be a hefty shield. But EVERYONE has access to that.

No offense to the creator of this thread but you might want to consider every side before asking for a nerf just because you can't beat another player.

And for the record I agree that Magicka Harness and hardened shouldn't stack, the amount of resource regain you get out of Harness also needs to be addressed.

Bromburak

1. Sorcs are the only solo class with no trade off.

Magicka Sorcs can have it all, Defense like a Fortress, Mobility like a rocket, very efficient CC and hit like a truck , all in the same build derived from class abilities only.

This class doesn't really fit in the current system, very simple.

2. I agree with GreenSoup2HoT
"From the footage, it doesn't look like healing or shield's are the problem. It's resource sustain."

TheBull

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Said it once saying it again.

Shields just need to be brung into the major/minor system.

I would be fine with this if they ALSO got rid of the Battle Spirit 50% shield nerf.

Well to make up the fact you only get 1 shield now... well 2 but the ones from enchantments and potions are kinda..... bleh.

Cody

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

Alucardo

I just try and walk around sorcs like they are diseased and focus someone else. I'd rather face a bulky nord in full heavy armour than a sorc wearing light.

olsborg

Whats the problem with hardward? I never usually have a problem melting through it.

Pepper8Jack

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

From the footage, it doesn't look like healing or shield's are the problem. It's resource sustain.

Absolutely couldn't agree more.

As for shields, hardened ward is hefty, but for a class with no innate survivability otherwise, it needs to be. The issue is stacking healing ward on top and getting health back, then throwing harness over both to get all of your spent magicka back.

So yes, the issue is still stacking.