shield stacking was never a problem, hardened ward is.

Lucky28

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

'hardened ward is the problem' lmao. He couldn't kill you either.

Read the input. He couldn't kill me because every other attack was him using Hardened Ward. He never fully committed to killing me before putting Hardened back on. Unlike other sorcs, who do actually use abilities to kill me.

So he was more focused on defense rather than offense..... how does this translate to nerf hardened ward again?.

Emma_Overload

Cody wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Said it once saying it again.

Shields just need to be brung into the major/minor system.

I would be fine with this if they ALSO got rid of the Battle Spirit 50% shield nerf.

good sithis no, then we would have consistent 25-30K damage shields, maybe if shields were put into the major/minor system this could work

That's what I'm saying, as long as Sorcs could get "Major Ward" or whatever, I'd be OK with it if I got my 25K shield back. I don't really WANT to stack 3 shields, and neither do a lot of other Sorcs.

RAGUNAnoOne

You are correct it is because every other shield sucks in comparison, buff them.

FriedEggSandwich

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

'hardened ward is the problem' lmao. He couldn't kill you either.

Read the input. He couldn't kill me because every other attack was him using Hardened Ward. He never fully committed to killing me before putting Hardened back on. Unlike other sorcs, who do actually use abilities to kill me.

Didn't look that way from the video tbh, looked more like he was refreshing his ward every 3 or 4 of your attacks, hard to tell from a sped up vid. When a sorc, whose main damage is frags, fights a dk with scales they have to slow stuff down and play more defensively, counting backwards from 4 everytime you cast scales, looking for an opportunity to cast frags. Even weaving heavy fire attacks is dangerous. Did you put any cp into the new anti-damage-shield passive for that fight btw? Upto +25% damage to shields sounds like a nice option if you struggle to do enough damage against them.

FriedEggSandwich

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

Considering you're a stamblade I find it hard to believe that you're ever faced with a ward larger than 14k that you need to worry about. Harness magicka will merge with hardened ward on your opponents health bar showing you an 18k-20k ward, but your physical damage will ignore harness magicka completely. Nobody has a hardened ward larger than 14k in pvp, mine is 12k. If you fought me with my 12k hardened ward and I stacked a 6k harness on top of it you would see an 18k ward but in reality you would still only have a 12k ward to break throuhg before you could damage my health pool. I thought this was common knowledge now. No good sorc will use healing ward at full hp. So consistent 24k shield stacks are non-existant from a stam build point of view.

nordickittyhawk

Alucardo wrote: »

I just try and walk around sorcs like they are diseased and focus someone else. I'd rather face a bulky nord in full heavy armour than a sorc wearing light.

You sir... just summed up whats wrong with pvp right now.

tfraley

ward is only good if you get it off, Try using a stun..

People who end up killing me(Magika sorc) are people smart enough to use a stun at the right time.

It's about skill, not spams

With out shields we die in one shot.

In stealth we can't cast wards so were one shot able
On horses we can't cast wards so were one shot able.

Yes, we have good shields, but a simple timed stun is all that is needed. even a wrecking blow with the stun at the end is all that is needed.

It's about knowing the mechanics of each class and using it against them = Skill

Cody

olsborg wrote: »

Whats the problem with hardward? I never usually have a problem melting through it.

You must be doing something the majority of us are not:)

Cody

Alucardo wrote: »

I just try and walk around sorcs like they are diseased and focus someone else. I'd rather face a bulky nord in full heavy armour than a sorc wearing light.

its hard to do that though because half of the enemies one finds (at least in my experience) are sorcerers. lol.

KatzMainTank

I think it's one of three things...

- The lack of penalty to a players Magicka pool.
- The general increase given by Hardened Ward.
- Combination of the two

Perhaps having the increase given by Hardened Ward scale with regen could kill two birds? This would give a player the choice to either go high survivability, high burst, or somewhere in the middle. Just an idea.

Cody

tfraley wrote: »

ward is only good if you get it off, Try using a stun..

People who end up killing me(Magika sorc) are people smart enough to use a stun at the right time.

It's about skill, not spams

With out shields we die in one shot.

In stealth we can't cast wards so were one shot able
On horses we can't cast wards so were one shot able.

Yes, we have good shields, but a simple timed stun is all that is needed. even a wrecking blow with the stun at the end is all that is needed.

It's about knowing the mechanics of each class and using it against them = Skill

"try using a stun" its not that simple, its not that simple for any class. Most of the players you face will immediately CC break that stun, roll dodge, then use their class based defense and counterattack, forcing you to change your approach, which may or may not let you hit them with an attack of your own. if its a NB it will be roll dodge and fear, a sorcerer, a 20K shield stack, a templar, their powerful heals, a DK, igneous shield followed by some kind of heal, and I am talking mana builds, a stam build can roll dodge and use vigor. Almost no one is going to sit/stand there and let you kill them after stunning them unless you can exhaust their stamina, and you may not have the resources to use a CC every 5 seconds nor the opportunity. the fighting in this game is not that simple or straightforward, if it was everyone would be pros at it.

and no a sorcerer is not going to die in one shot without their shields up, Is it possible to inflict ridiculous amounts of damage in this game? absolutely, thats what happens with spell/weapon damage that can be brought to over 4K, but getting killed in literally one shot means that player needs to put more into health, and at that point whatever class they are is irrelevant, only from stealth should anyone really be getting one shot, and even then that usually only happens when its lagging and skills get delayed. Am I saying dont use ward? No, but it is very possible to take quite a few hits without it up and not die. I see it all the time, so this excuse stating that the sorcerer would be helpless without ward is a poor way to defend 20K shield stacks.

As of now one sorcerer can tank AND KILL an entire group thanks to the way they can use their shields. It is not a L2P issue, it is far too common of an occurrence to be a L2P issue. The other three classes will not be seen slaughtering entire groups solo anywhere near as much as the sorcerer, go see for yourself, the closest you will get is a DK or templar tank.

I know what some reading are thinking, "that player must be that good, therefore they deserve to kill an entire group solo" no matter how good a player is, there has to be limits. I am not saying it should be impossible to win 1v3s, but soloing an entire group is complete nonsense and should not be attainable by anyone. If one person can kill an entire group, then what is the point in playing? where is there fun to be had watching one person kill an entire group of people? This is not Skyrim, this is ESO, it is supposed to require teamwork and coordination between teammates, if one person can solo an entire group then what is the point in it being a team game?

am I saying nerf ward or sorcerers? No, but the way damage shields can be stacked needs looking into. Consistent 20K damage shield stacks combined with consistent 6-10K+ crystal frags is indeed OP, you have both high offense and high defense, no player should have both, no matter the class. Damage shields need to be put into the major/minor system, and softcaps of some kind or a similar idea need to return/come. You can disagree of course, its understandable, this new meta is very fun for many people, i am just not in that group of people.

Vaoh

You know, people come up with so many ideas to nerf shield stacking because of PvP. As long as the shield stacking adjustment that ZOS makes in the future DOES NOT ruin my PvE Sorc, I could care less how they adjust things.

Hardened Ward is all my Magicka Sorc has to survive, like a Magicka NB uses HoT, a Magicka Templar uses BoL, and a Magicka DK uses other stuff (buffed in PTS but I don't know exactly what, maybe HoT+Inhale/Dragon Blood?). Harness Magicka/Dampen Magic are almost never on my bar.

Solution to shield stacking must be PVP-ONLY. Include it in the Battle Spirit, or make the skill have a separate PvP function, like Teleport Strike. Don't mess up my strictly PvE character by using terrible solutions to nerf a strong PvP class.

Edit: The issue with most of the balance problems seems to be that you can give a character 5x Hundings/Julianos, 3x Agility/Willpower (all +damage enchants), and 2x Molag Kena while using Food. This should kill your regeneration, but because of how CPs work, you can survive all day with this super high all DPS setup.

dodgehopper_ESO

Cody wrote: »

wings as in scales? no, it does not need a nerf. it was nerfed once already, it does not need a second.

in regards to the damage shield issue, yes it is indeed an issue. I have seen sorcerers CONSISTENTLY pull up 18-20K shields/shield stacks while still maintaining high offensive capability and seemingly never run out of mana, it would take entire groups or someone around the level of Sypher to kill them. However, the issue lies with the way resources are done in this game.

Of course someone is going to be able to constantly pull up damage shields when mana pools can go up to 30-40K and resource regain can be brought to the mid 2Ks-3Ks, im not even putting heavy attacks or potions into the mix; and the fact that hardened ward scales off of mana is the reason a sorcerer is able to do what he or she can do, having powerful shields AND offense at the same time. Do I want sorcerers nerfed? No, we do not need nerfs; instead the way resources work in this game needs to be looked at. I personally think soft caps should return; but that is just my opinion. Many people think constant damage shield stack/spam is a good thing, and they have the right to have that opinion, i just simply disagree with the majority in this issue.

I still think hardened ward should scale off Health. They should also make shields crittable, which would allow crit surge to be more effective in its mitigation, and also make shields have to deal with damage appropriately. In turn this would also allow them to get rid of the stupid battle spirit buff.

Jhunn

Shut up about healing ward. Imagine a magicka NB without healing ward.

Hardened is the problem.

Stigant

Resource pools should become RESOURCE POOLS ONLY ... strenght of abilities should scale ONLY from Weapon Power/Spell Power, Sorc and Healing Staff shields included,

Absobr Shields should be consistently included in buff/debuff consolidation like all other buffs were long time ago, from the game mechanics perspective, they are buffs anyway (same should go with snares as debuffs btw)

Then we could get rid of ridiculous additions to mechanics like that Battle Spirit and AoE Caps nonsense. Its not any better than PvP-exclusive stats that other MMO's have, which we were at the begining of this game promissed not to get. Char customization and building should be more consistent...

I could go on and on and on with my opinions and list of things this game needs to change, but actually I don't bother any more ... there are other titles coming out soon, that are more worth of my time and money than puting up with @Wrobel's and @ZOS's twisted ideas on MMO and empty promisses never coming true

Brrrofski

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

I honestly don't mean this in an offensive way at all, but of all classes, stam Nb has probably the easiest time against sorcs. Part of the problem is you're using wrecking blow I think.

Also, a sorc isn't putting up shields that high against you. I have 38k magica and have a 11-12k hardened ward in pvp. Healing Ward is only a decent size when you are low on health. The only other shield is harness magica, which doesn't have an impact on a Stam nb.

tennant94

All theses people saying they can't kill sorcerers are just bad players

Edziu

tennant94 wrote: »

All theses people saying they can't kill sorcerers are just bad players

so try to kill sorcer if he have 10k-15k (also saw some people who have with ONLY HARDENED WARD has 18k, 19k shields) only hardened ward and then your max hits are 4k-5k(noncrit), he have then additional 1-2 moves then you are trying to remove his ward, in this time you can put resto shield if he has low hp, if not just damage to you, curse, strek, mines, crytsal frag proc and gg

thaks this noncritable shields sorcs have additional moves agains all other who dont have 7k+ hits without crits (wreck blow/snipe on max dmg burst has about 6.5k max dmg without crit but is cast and for snipe need range and can be interupted)

Brrrofski

Nobody has 18k hardened wards.

I have 100CP in bastion and 38k magica and have an 21k pve shield, so 11.5k in pvp.

To get an 18k shield in pvp they'd need a 36k shield in pve. How is someone getting an extra 15k shield? No more xp to go into bastion. They'd need another 30k magica. Not happening.

And if they really stack magica, they are gimped with like 2 skills on each bar. Hardened ward and a heal being two of them. Hence why no sorc goes for the max magics build in pvp, it's a pve thing.

Shields in general need to be critable. All shield do. Harness magica needs to be looked at as well.

Tankqull

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

Considering you're a stamblade I find it hard to believe that you're ever faced with a ward larger than 14k that you need to worry about. Harness magicka will merge with hardened ward on your opponents health bar showing you an 18k-20k ward, but your physical damage will ignore harness magicka completely. Nobody has a hardened ward larger than 14k in pvp, mine is 12k. If you fought me with my 12k hardened ward and I stacked a 6k harness on top of it you would see an 18k ward but in reality you would still only have a 12k ward to break throuhg before you could damage my health pool. I thought this was common knowledge now. No good sorc will use healing ward at full hp. So consistent 24k shield stacks are non-existant from a stam build point of view.

and do not forget shieldbreaker set wich puts a ton of pressure on a sorc aswell.

Howl

KatzMainTank wrote: »

I think it's one of three things...

- The lack of penalty to a players Magicka pool.
- The general increase given by Hardened Ward.
- Combination of the two

Perhaps having the increase given by Hardened Ward scale with regen could kill two birds? This would give a player the choice to either go high survivability, high burst, or somewhere in the middle. Just an idea.

This is the issue with PvP in ESO in general. The existence of self-heals is one problem but the fact that they scale of damage stats is utterly absurd. In almost every other MMO out there, as well as the AD&D foundation that they are all born from, you have damage, tanking and healing. Pick one and group with the others to complement you.

They need to introduce a healing stat which is separate from damage dealing stats and then reorganise the gear around that system. It's too much work and will never happen so we're left with this mess of stacking stamina/magicka, until Camelot Unchained comes out.

Cody

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

wings as in scales? no, it does not need a nerf. it was nerfed once already, it does not need a second.

in regards to the damage shield issue, yes it is indeed an issue. I have seen sorcerers CONSISTENTLY pull up 18-20K shields/shield stacks while still maintaining high offensive capability and seemingly never run out of mana, it would take entire groups or someone around the level of Sypher to kill them. However, the issue lies with the way resources are done in this game.

Of course someone is going to be able to constantly pull up damage shields when mana pools can go up to 30-40K and resource regain can be brought to the mid 2Ks-3Ks, im not even putting heavy attacks or potions into the mix; and the fact that hardened ward scales off of mana is the reason a sorcerer is able to do what he or she can do, having powerful shields AND offense at the same time. Do I want sorcerers nerfed? No, we do not need nerfs; instead the way resources work in this game needs to be looked at. I personally think soft caps should return; but that is just my opinion. Many people think constant damage shield stack/spam is a good thing, and they have the right to have that opinion, i just simply disagree with the majority in this issue.

I still think hardened ward should scale off Health. They should also make shields crittable, which would allow crit surge to be more effective in its mitigation, and also make shields have to deal with damage appropriately. In turn this would also allow them to get rid of the stupid battle spirit buff.

I personally do not agree with making them scale off of health, but i do agree with making them critable. Someone with a shield up is 100% protected from pretty much every crit, stealth crits included, effectively brushing off a good chunk of a players playstyle.

Cody

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

I honestly don't mean this in an offensive way at all, but of all classes, stam Nb has probably the easiest time against sorcs. Part of the problem is you're using wrecking blow I think.

Also, a sorc isn't putting up shields that high against you. I have 38k magica and have a 11-12k hardened ward in pvp. Healing Ward is only a decent size when you are low on health. The only other shield is harness magica, which doesn't have an impact on a Stam nb.

i have an add-on which lets me see the shield values, and I see 18-20K+ values constantly.

Cody

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

Considering you're a stamblade I find it hard to believe that you're ever faced with a ward larger than 14k that you need to worry about. Harness magicka will merge with hardened ward on your opponents health bar showing you an 18k-20k ward, but your physical damage will ignore harness magicka completely. Nobody has a hardened ward larger than 14k in pvp, mine is 12k. If you fought me with my 12k hardened ward and I stacked a 6k harness on top of it you would see an 18k ward but in reality you would still only have a 12k ward to break throuhg before you could damage my health pool. I thought this was common knowledge now. No good sorc will use healing ward at full hp. So consistent 24k shield stacks are non-existant from a stam build point of view.

my experience tells a different story.

"from a stam builds PoV" I am not looking at this from only a stam builds PoV, I am trying to include all builds in general. . Stam builds are not the only builds in this game. A mana DK is not getting thru those shields, a mana templar could draw the fight out to ridiculous proportions, and a mana NB would just get burst down unless the sorcerer did not have a counter for cloak.

and tbhI have played in Azura's star, and I RARELY ever have seen a stam build beat a sorcerer as easily as most claim. I am either missing or not seeing something..most of the time its stack damage shields, toss down mines, and begin using force shock or the like, with insta 6-15K crystal frags constantly in use. By the time I see most people close the gap they are already halfway dead. Maybe someone like Xylena or Sypher can do it that way, but most of us are not that good at the game.

if you disagree, that is fine. but please do not assume I am only looking at it from a stamblades PoV, I am not that narrow minded.

Decado

Not gonna lie got bored and stopped reading pretty quick,

I fail to see a problem there a fight that lasted long because you were both evenly balanced? fighting a DK is a nightmare for a Sorc you have to time the frag just right or your getting it back in the face,

I was on my Sorc the other day I have about a 6/7 minute fight with a magicka NB, it always went the same way, one of us would burst the other, if I was taking heavy damage I hit hardened ward, healing ward, streak, and mines, so I could get myself back up and the fight reset,

However if it was myself bursting he would dodge roll, hit healing ward, cloak, by the time I knocked him out of stealth he was full health, or I couldn't knock him out and again the fight reset, went of for about 6 minute or so, in the end we out our weapons away waved at each over and moved off, I actually really enjoyed that fight and I don't see the need to call for a nerf because I found a player of similar skill to myself.

Also from the few comments I read;

As someone else mentioned if he has to reapply hardened ever other attack it's not exactly an OP shield is it?

There is no way hardened ward gives you 20k damage shield in PVP I'm calling *** on that one, pretty sure on my Sorc on PVE, with 44k magicka I get a 20k damage shield, so unless there are sorcs running around with 88k magicka I highly doubt they had a 20k damage shield from just hardened ward

Aquanova

Well, ZOS has added a counter to almost everything with the TG patch. Shattering blows will now buff your damage against damage shields, so I don't think ZOS will be nerfing shields anytime soon and at this point I wouldn't want them to. I think we do not need any more nerfs for the time being.

Lucky28

Cody wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

I honestly don't mean this in an offensive way at all, but of all classes, stam Nb has probably the easiest time against sorcs. Part of the problem is you're using wrecking blow I think.

Also, a sorc isn't putting up shields that high against you. I have 38k magica and have a 11-12k hardened ward in pvp. Healing Ward is only a decent size when you are low on health. The only other shield is harness magica, which doesn't have an impact on a Stam nb.

i have an add-on which lets me see the shield values, and I see 18-20K+ values constantly.

yeah, i can get that high as well. when i stack hardened ward plus harness. however, 18 - 20K is not just hardened ward, least not in Cyrodiil.

FriedEggSandwich

Cody wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

Considering you're a stamblade I find it hard to believe that you're ever faced with a ward larger than 14k that you need to worry about. Harness magicka will merge with hardened ward on your opponents health bar showing you an 18k-20k ward, but your physical damage will ignore harness magicka completely. Nobody has a hardened ward larger than 14k in pvp, mine is 12k. If you fought me with my 12k hardened ward and I stacked a 6k harness on top of it you would see an 18k ward but in reality you would still only have a 12k ward to break throuhg before you could damage my health pool. I thought this was common knowledge now. No good sorc will use healing ward at full hp. So consistent 24k shield stacks are non-existant from a stam build point of view.

my experience tells a different story.

"from a stam builds PoV" I am not looking at this from only a stam builds PoV, I am trying to include all builds in general. . Stam builds are not the only builds in this game. A mana DK is not getting thru those shields, a mana templar could draw the fight out to ridiculous proportions, and a mana NB would just get burst down unless the sorcerer did not have a counter for cloak.

and tbhI have played in Azura's star, and I RARELY ever have seen a stam build beat a sorcerer as easily as most claim. I am either missing or not seeing something..most of the time its stack damage shields, toss down mines, and begin using force shock or the like, with insta 6-15K crystal frags constantly in use. By the time I see most people close the gap they are already halfway dead. Maybe someone like Xylena or Sypher can do it that way, but most of us are not that good at the game.

if you disagree, that is fine. but please do not assume I am only looking at it from a stamblades PoV, I am not that narrow minded.

No I agree with you; shield stacking is op af for magicka builds to go against. I would like zos to prevent shields from being stacked, even for pve, because it's not necessary imo, or at least shouldn't be necessary. I gave up using harness in pvp when 1.7 dropped and I gave up using healing ward about a month ago. I use hardened ward combined with defensive rune and combat prayer instead, and it works well for me. Not gonna pretend I wouldn't be more survivable with healing ward, but a couple of tweaks, some cp in the right places and some impen and I was surprised just how survivable you can be with just one ward. I want to see the end of the shield stacking sorc meta as much as anyone.

It was the part of your comment I bolded that I was replying to, because it was typical of the type of exaggeration I see all the time. Yes shield stackig sorcs are op for magicka builds, but facts are still facts. Stam builds have no right compaining about going up against 18-20k shield stacks, or using it as a reason they find sorcs op. I will admit to not considering many stam builds also play magicka builds.

For balance to be achievable people need to stop letting their passionate feelings get in the way of rational opinions. Sorcs are not the rampaging mini-emps people like to make out, maybe in 1.6 but not anymore. The sorcs you see soloing groups of 6+ are actually soloing groups of 6+ clueless noobs. Myself and my nb buddy took on a group of 9 last week and wiped them, but not because we had mad skillz or op builds, but because half the group weren't even trying to damage us and just went down in our ultis without fighting. There are some really poor players on the vet campaigns of late. I don't know any sorc on EU that can take on more that 2-3 experienced players. So it is simply l2p, as much as I hate saying that. It just takes 2 to pressure and one to cc at the right time, and don't chase them into areas with lots of cover. In my experience, as of the current live patch, it still takes longer to take down a good dk or templar tank.

Cody

Lucky28 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

I honestly don't mean this in an offensive way at all, but of all classes, stam Nb has probably the easiest time against sorcs. Part of the problem is you're using wrecking blow I think.

Also, a sorc isn't putting up shields that high against you. I have 38k magica and have a 11-12k hardened ward in pvp. Healing Ward is only a decent size when you are low on health. The only other shield is harness magica, which doesn't have an impact on a Stam nb.

i have an add-on which lets me see the shield values, and I see 18-20K+ values constantly.

yeah, i can get that high as well. when i stack hardened ward plus harness. however, 18 - 20K is not just hardened ward, least not in Cyrodiil.

i know, which is why I say shield stacks(or i try to. lol)

i dont want damage shields nerfed, I just want them in the major/minor system, that is not too unfair of a thing to ask for.

Cody

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I've had several 20 minute fights on my Dragon (Argonian DK) vs Sorcs. At the end, the draw, my damage recap would look something like 1.5 million dmg done. 1.2 million absorbed.

I won't even fight a sorc on my magicka NB anymore. Most likely it will be a stressful never ending battle. Avoid the sorc burst and hope they get over confident and don't re-Ward after every cast.

i am considering just not fighting sorcs at all on my stam blade, as almost every sorc i face constantly puts up consistent 18-20K shield stacks. it is almost impossible to get through them because sorcerers will not just stand there and let one wrecking blow them to death, they will use block,, streak, mines, dodge roll, etc. sniping them is pointless because the amount of damage they can do with frags and other skills eats me up. the only way I can think of to actually beat one without the help of 5 teammates is to use a mana DK with scales (ironic seeing how the mana DK is in one of the worst states in the game atm:D)

as I may have mentioned earlier, I am not calling sorcerers OP, nor do I want them nerfed.. ZOS needs to either put damage shields into the major/minor system, where one gets removed if another is cast. or softcaps should come back. Would they limit builds? perhaps, but we would see less of constant 24K shield stacks and endless WB and snipe spam, and the end of open combat non-crit 10K attacks. (and yes I have seen 20K+ shield stacks, I have seen consistent 24K shield stacks and even one non-emp player pull out a 27K shield stack, I am not lying, I do not lie about such things)

Considering you're a stamblade I find it hard to believe that you're ever faced with a ward larger than 14k that you need to worry about. Harness magicka will merge with hardened ward on your opponents health bar showing you an 18k-20k ward, but your physical damage will ignore harness magicka completely. Nobody has a hardened ward larger than 14k in pvp, mine is 12k. If you fought me with my 12k hardened ward and I stacked a 6k harness on top of it you would see an 18k ward but in reality you would still only have a 12k ward to break throuhg before you could damage my health pool. I thought this was common knowledge now. No good sorc will use healing ward at full hp. So consistent 24k shield stacks are non-existant from a stam build point of view.

my experience tells a different story.

"from a stam builds PoV" I am not looking at this from only a stam builds PoV, I am trying to include all builds in general. . Stam builds are not the only builds in this game. A mana DK is not getting thru those shields, a mana templar could draw the fight out to ridiculous proportions, and a mana NB would just get burst down unless the sorcerer did not have a counter for cloak.

and tbhI have played in Azura's star, and I RARELY ever have seen a stam build beat a sorcerer as easily as most claim. I am either missing or not seeing something..most of the time its stack damage shields, toss down mines, and begin using force shock or the like, with insta 6-15K crystal frags constantly in use. By the time I see most people close the gap they are already halfway dead. Maybe someone like Xylena or Sypher can do it that way, but most of us are not that good at the game.

if you disagree, that is fine. but please do not assume I am only looking at it from a stamblades PoV, I am not that narrow minded.

No I agree with you; shield stacking is op af for magicka builds to go against. I would like zos to prevent shields from being stacked, even for pve, because it's not necessary imo, or at least shouldn't be necessary. I gave up using harness in pvp when 1.7 dropped and I gave up using healing ward about a month ago. I use hardened ward combined with defensive rune and combat prayer instead, and it works well for me. Not gonna pretend I wouldn't be more survivable with healing ward, but a couple of tweaks, some cp in the right places and some impen and I was surprised just how survivable you can be with just one ward. I want to see the end of the shield stacking sorc meta as much as anyone.

It was the part of your comment I bolded that I was replying to, because it was typical of the type of exaggeration I see all the time. Yes shield stackig sorcs are op for magicka builds, but facts are still facts. Stam builds have no right compaining about going up against 18-20k shield stacks, or using it as a reason they find sorcs op. I will admit to not considering many stam builds also play magicka builds.

For balance to be achievable people need to stop letting their passionate feelings get in the way of rational opinions. Sorcs are not the rampaging mini-emps people like to make out, maybe in 1.6 but not anymore. The sorcs you see soloing groups of 6+ are actually soloing groups of 6+ clueless noobs. Myself and my nb buddy took on a group of 9 last week and wiped them, but not because we had mad skillz or op builds, but because half the group weren't even trying to damage us and just went down in our ultis without fighting. There are some really poor players on the vet campaigns of late. I don't know any sorc on EU that can take on more that 2-3 experienced players. So it is simply l2p, as much as I hate saying that. It just takes 2 to pressure and one to cc at the right time, and don't chase them into areas with lots of cover. In my experience, as of the current live patch, it still takes longer to take down a good dk or templar tank.

i have not only played a stam build. I have played this game since the beta, I have run plenty of mana characters in that time, if I did not I would not be on here flapping my internet gums.

"my and my NB buddy took on a group of 9 players and won, we should be able to because they either did not have the skill or we were just better" this is where we fundamentally disagree. This is not COD, this game is supposed to emphasize group play and teamwork, and its hard to notice that when 2 people can kill groups over 3 times their size. thank sithis for keeps and scrolls, otherwise this truly would be a game similar to COD

"stam builds have no right calling 18-20K shield stacks OP or calling sorcs OP" when did I claim sorcs were OP?. I said at least twice they were not, and im sorry, but I will complain. I am not going to keep my opinion to myself just because I like to play a stamina build. Me playing a stamina build does not mean I cannot consider the welfare of mana builds as well. I know enough to know mana templars cannot get through those shields, at least not without a gigantic drawn out fight, same with mana blades. Mana DKs at least have scales.

"it takes longer to take down a good DK or templar tank" of course it does, they are tanks, they spec mostly in taking damage, even shield stacking is not going to fully substitute in the role of tanking for an old fashioned shield.

I will take my leave, I need to get on this mana blade. Have a good night.