Vampire and werewolf "bites" in the crown store

tiger32ii

Ya now that it's in the crown store good luck getting free bits now

JamilaRaj

BomblePants wrote: »

Whether I agree with these items in the CS or not, the fact is because so many people were scamming, charging gold and generally being an ar*e about bites they are now in the CS.... ZOS has taken away the 'power' of the people who charge and scam for bites!

It just took over their business. Cash shop is not a tool to fix some real or perceived issues, it is a tool to capitalize on them.

Elderscrollian

No problem with this AT ALL.. like ZOS said its simply convenience items. If people want to do the quest still then there is nothing stopping them at all and as people were getting bit and doing the quest from like level 10 or so anyway and have been for ages then really what is the big deal.

Its not like its an instant win potion or a uber item for sale. its simply access to one of the two more popular THEMATIC skill lines, you STILL have to play the game to get skill points to do anything with them.

Good on you ZOS I say. If people like me conceptualized one or more of their characters as being a werewolf or vampire from the get go now they don't have to play a bunch of the game before its a reality, now they can be want they want right out of the gate. So I for one appreciate it.

Now if you'd just sell EXTRA CHARACTER SLOTS already you'd be totally awesome hint hint

Infinite12

Elderscrollian wrote: »

If people like me conceptualized one or more of their characters as being a werewolf or vampire from the get go now they don't have to play a bunch of the game before its a reality

Play a bunch of game? Are you serious? You go into area chat, you ask someone to group up with you and travel to the zone where you get the ww/vamp bite, you travel to player. You go SIT ON A HILL AND WAIT FOR A WEREWOLF OR VAMPIRE TO SPAWN. Is that REALLY too difficult for you? Smh.

Glaiceana

tiger32ii wrote: »

Ya now that it's in the crown store good luck getting free bits now

I continue to give my bites for free, as does my guild

thedarkdomino

A bunch of people have voiced outrage, and as a PS4 player, I'd just like to chime in.

There's a plain and simple reason why this was done: scamming. Scamming is very rampant, as far as bites/gold go. I know a bunch of people will go "Oh well MY guild doesn't... blah blah blah."

The bottom line is go by any of the werewolf or vamp shrines on console and you've got people trying to rip other people off. ESO just took control of an out-of-control situation.

Vampirism and lycanthropy and the little secondary market it created was cool for a while, but like all things created with good intentions - a few bad apples ruined it. Now the party is over. I see exactly why it was done and it was about time the devs stepped in and did something about the scamming.

Frankly I don't really care. Anyone that's been playing this game for more than a year already has been infected with both lines. I've got a vampire and werewolf on PS4 on NA Daggerfall Covenant and will gladly vamp bite anyone for free.

godagarah5000

i for one am glad they put it in the store cuz less it means scamming

godagarah5000

now all we need is a marcus corvinus hybrid aka vampire lord since thats what the vampire lord form is based off of

BomblePants

JamilaRaj wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Whether I agree with these items in the CS or not, the fact is because so many people were scamming, charging gold and generally being an ar*e about bites they are now in the CS.... ZOS has taken away the 'power' of the people who charge and scam for bites!

It just took over their business. Cash shop is not a tool to fix some real or perceived issues, it is a tool to capitalize on them.

Not really dude, at least if you pay in the CS you actually get the afflictions. I have watched/heard first hand time and time again people getting scammed at the shrines - not cool at all.

You think ZOS don't show up in game at times and watch/listen to all that stuff?

I completely agree with 'thedarkdomino'... and reiterate that I have a whole bunch of messages from players I don't know trying to charge outrageous prices for a bite and also calling me names for giving my bite for free! The whole getting a bite thing descended into some quite nasty interactions.

However, I was kindly bitten for free and will always continue to bite for free.

Glaiceana

thedarkdomino wrote: »

A bunch of people have voiced outrage, and as a PS4 player, I'd just like to chime in.

There's a plain and simple reason why this was done: scamming. Scamming is very rampant, as far as bites/gold go. I know a bunch of people will go "Oh well MY guild doesn't... blah blah blah."

The bottom line is go by any of the werewolf or vamp shrines on console and you've got people trying to rip other people off. ESO just took control of an out-of-control situation.

Vampirism and lycanthropy and the little secondary market it created was cool for a while, but like all things created with good intentions - a few bad apples ruined it. Now the party is over. I see exactly why it was done and it was about time the devs stepped in and did something about the scamming.

Frankly I don't really care. Anyone that's been playing this game for more than a year already has been infected with both lines. I've got a vampire and werewolf on PS4 on NA Daggerfall Covenant and will gladly vamp bite anyone for free.

godagarah5000 wrote: »

i for one am glad they put it in the store cuz less it means scamming

I do not see how this will stop the scamming. Just because there's an option to buy the skill lines for real money does not mean people will stop scamming. Since its been added I've continued to see people sell the bites for up to 10k gold. So that's 10k that could potentially be stolen. I just don't see why people think CS bites would stop scammers? Do you think the scammers care?

JamilaRaj

BomblePants wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Whether I agree with these items in the CS or not, the fact is because so many people were scamming, charging gold and generally being an ar*e about bites they are now in the CS.... ZOS has taken away the 'power' of the people who charge and scam for bites!

It just took over their business. Cash shop is not a tool to fix some real or perceived issues, it is a tool to capitalize on them.

Not really dude, at least if you pay in the CS you actually get the afflictions.

Dude, it is ZOS, they can not even guarantee you get crowns in the first place.

BomblePants

You have a point Glaiceana, I have watched it happen since the bite appeared in the CS... but I do hope it will reduce the number of scammers at the shrines. I'm convinced these people are why bites have appeared (and of course to create revenue).

Volkodav

No one wil lwant to take the time to do the questline for the bites anymore now.Who needs them,right? I wont buy the bites though. I enjoyed those quests.

Greevir

Can we get a crown store unlock to make us VR16? Cause you know, for convenience?

Krainor1974

I buy few of those, out of convenience

Crimsonwolf666

Don't see the issue. I got both my bites for free on characters about lvl 10. The vampire quest was harder to complete on level 10, but I did it. If I recall ww quest scaled to your current lvl. The quests, we're not hard at all, but might be tedious for someone with a lot of alts. If ppl want to buy bites for crowns, more power to them. I will continue to offer free bites and hopefully combined with crown store bites this will cut down on the bite scams ppl have been running on others. Also I am genuinely confused how this is considered p2w? The skill lines from vamp and ww aren't that powerful, and if the quests can be completed by lvl 10 anyway....why care? Ppl who want to buy from crown store will buy it, ppl who want to pay in game gold for it will, ppl want to camp the spawn spots will do so too.... it's not like they are selling shield breaker armor or such on the crown store.

Enodoc

Crimsonwolf666 wrote: »

Don't see the issue. I got both my bites for free on characters about lvl 10. The vampire quest was harder to complete on level 10, but I did it. If I recall ww quest scaled to your current lvl. The quests, we're not hard at all, but might be tedious for someone with a lot of alts. If ppl want to buy bites for crowns, more power to them. I will continue to offer free bites and hopefully combined with crown store bites this will cut down on the bite scams ppl have been running on others. Also I am genuinely confused how this is considered p2w? The skill lines from vamp and ww aren't that powerful, and if the quests can be completed by lvl 10 anyway....why care? Ppl who want to buy from crown store will buy it, ppl who want to pay in game gold for it will, ppl want to camp the spawn spots will do so too.... it's not like they are selling shield breaker armor or such on the crown store.

The line has to be drawn somewhere - for some people, "winning" is the result of putting effort in to get a reward (even if the effort is minimal and the reward is minor). These Crown Store items are giving the reward (skill line) without the effort (quest completion), and that's a fine line to be dancing around. As I said elsewhere, I think it would have been much less of an issue if the Crown Store items gave you the disease and the access to the quest, rather than giving you the skill line directly.

ADarklore

Enodoc wrote: »

The line has to be drawn somewhere - for some people, "winning" is the result of putting effort in to get a reward (even if the effort is minimal and the reward is minor). These Crown Store items are giving the reward (skill line) without the effort (quest completion), and that's a fine line to be dancing around. As I said elsewhere, I think it would have been much less of an issue if the Crown Store items gave you the disease and the access to the quest, rather than giving you the skill line directly.

I have to disagree. First, if you PAY for something, you should be able to use it not have to pay for it and THEN work to get access to it. Second, imagine a level 4 character fresh off the boat, buys vampire bite, now has to travel to Reaper's March (highest zone in AD) and try to get to the altar without dying multiple times just to get access to the quest in order to claim what they've already paid for. Besides, it isn't like the skill line is instantly maxed... the player still has to earn the XP to level the skill line- so they are still earning the skill line.

Personally, I enjoyed the vampire quest, but I don't think that if someone buys a bite from the store, that they should also have to work to gain access to what they paid for... leveling the line via XP is the effort they must put into it.

eliisra

Enodoc wrote: »

Crimsonwolf666 wrote: »

Don't see the issue. I got both my bites for free on characters about lvl 10. The vampire quest was harder to complete on level 10, but I did it. If I recall ww quest scaled to your current lvl. The quests, we're not hard at all, but might be tedious for someone with a lot of alts. If ppl want to buy bites for crowns, more power to them. I will continue to offer free bites and hopefully combined with crown store bites this will cut down on the bite scams ppl have been running on others. Also I am genuinely confused how this is considered p2w? The skill lines from vamp and ww aren't that powerful, and if the quests can be completed by lvl 10 anyway....why care? Ppl who want to buy from crown store will buy it, ppl who want to pay in game gold for it will, ppl want to camp the spawn spots will do so too.... it's not like they are selling shield breaker armor or such on the crown store.

The line has to be drawn somewhere - for some people, "winning" is the result of putting effort in to get a reward (even if the effort is minimal and the reward is minor). These Crown Store items are giving the reward (skill line) without the effort (quest completion), and that's a fine line to be dancing around. As I said elsewhere, I think it would have been much less of an issue if the Crown Store items gave you the disease and the access to the quest, rather than giving you the skill line directly.

Doing a 5 minute quest with mostly dialogue, is not really effort tho. The real effort is leveling the skill line. Vampire takes almost a week to max if you're a casual player.

I rather feel sorry for people not getting the quests, so it's the other way around. If you use the store, you miss out on the full vamp/WW experience, you miss out on content. Being cursed, the twisted back story of Lamae Bal or Hircine lore. Those quests, even if short, where pretty thrilling, almost goosebumps, first time you bathed in blood or howled with the pack.

Compare that to click Crown store = skill line appears. Who's the winner?

Still not sure why anyone would pay real life money to get instakilled in PvP tho. Vampire is almost unplayable atm because Fighter's Guild skill + sneak attacks. Than ZoS tries to sell the "experience" for cash, kinda hilarious. Shows how little they know about broken mechanics, selling something that gets the paying customer instakilled over and over and over.

But I guess PvE'ers might buy it for reasons like achievements, dyes or it fits their character creation.

Divinius

ADarklore wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The line has to be drawn somewhere - for some people, "winning" is the result of putting effort in to get a reward (even if the effort is minimal and the reward is minor). These Crown Store items are giving the reward (skill line) without the effort (quest completion), and that's a fine line to be dancing around. As I said elsewhere, I think it would have been much less of an issue if the Crown Store items gave you the disease and the access to the quest, rather than giving you the skill line directly.

I have to disagree. First, if you PAY for something, you should be able to use it not have to pay for it and THEN work to get access to it. Second, imagine a level 4 character fresh off the boat, buys vampire bite, now has to travel to Reaper's March (highest zone in AD) and try to get to the altar without dying multiple times just to get access to the quest in order to claim what they've already paid for.

You are arguing using the same logic as ZOS did when they chose to implement the system the way they did. I'm sure that what you stated is exactly why the purchase also completes the quest for you. If it just gave you the bite, you are correct, a low level player would struggle to actually be able to become a vamp/ww.

Unfortunately, your argument also pretty much defines why doing it this way can be considered P2W. A low level player just off the boat would have an equally hard time getting the vamp/ww skill line without buying it. Being able to get access to the whole skill line (even if not leveled) on a brand new character, just by paying crowns, is the very definition of P2W.

Like I said, I understand fully why ZOS chose to have the purchase completely unlock the line, for all the reasons you just stated. But easy marketing doesn't make it not P2W.

Having the purchase only give players the bite (with adequate warning that actually unlocking the line would require a higher level character or a lot of player skill), would have accomplished what people were asking for (a way around scammers camping spawns and charging for bites), without just handing players something they couldn't normally get on their own. A level 3 player just off the boat can teleport to player and get to the shrine and be bitten with zero skill. The only effort is finding another player willing to bite you. That's the only effort that the crown store purchase should circumvent. And that alone would have been worth a few crowns to many people.

Morgha_Kul

The issue is this, at least in part. They put things on the store like this, that lets you ignore content.

Players then get abilities and equipment that took no effort, no GAME to acquire.

Having done nothing, they declare the game boring, and they leave, telling others how boring the game is.

Now, the bites are only a small thing, but it's a step further along the slippery slope. The concern many of us have is that they will continue the slide. More and more things will end up on the store "for convenience" and the game will deteriorate. Players will have nothing to do because everything will be on the store, and with nothing to do, players will leave the game.

We're not at that point yet, but the way is being paved.

NobleNerd

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

The issue is this, at least in part. They put things on the store like this, that lets you ignore content.

Players then get abilities and equipment that took no effort, no GAME to acquire.

Having done nothing, they declare the game boring, and they leave, telling others how boring the game is.

Now, the bites are only a small thing, but it's a step further along the slippery slope. The concern many of us have is that they will continue the slide. More and more things will end up on the store "for convenience" and the game will deteriorate. Players will have nothing to do because everything will be on the store, and with nothing to do, players will leave the game.

We're not at that point yet, but the way is being paved.

I agree.

It is not that we are crying "doom and gloom" and "the world is ending". It is more so we are are alarmed at this direction and see it can and probably will lead into much worse.

ZOS be very very cautious going forward. Take a look at successful cash shops like the one in GW2 and draw inspiration from those who have gone before you.

JamilaRaj

NobleNerd wrote: »

ZOS be very very cautious going forward. Take a look at successful cash shops like the one in GW2 and draw inspiration from those who have gone before you.

Could not they just look up to successful games instead?

Abeille

NobleNerd wrote: »

ZOS be very very cautious going forward. Take a look at successful cash shops like the one in GW2 and draw inspiration from those who have gone before you.

I get what you mean and I agree that GW2's cash shop is okay, but they added a lot of unreasonable cosmetic things to the store, like huge black wings (2edgy4me). I would like ESO's cosmetic things to not be this intrusive. Ever.

Samm13

I personally find it to be a fantastic idea on their part, I do have both a werewolf and a vampire that I earned before they started doing this . When the idea of both came out in the beginning it was very hard to get someone to bite you or find the rare spawns. Not to mention the "Werewolf " quest itself was really a pain for some. From a business standpoint its a great marketing tool and is very inviting to new players. It is all about how you want your game to be played , its your money. Not to say I don't see what a " hardcore " Eso player is saying, most of this sort would rather have ever individual earn their way to this point. I would say both sides are valid , but in the end it is your money....

NobleNerd

Abeille wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

ZOS be very very cautious going forward. Take a look at successful cash shops like the one in GW2 and draw inspiration from those who have gone before you.

I get what you mean and I agree that GW2's cash shop is okay, but they added a lot of unreasonable cosmetic things to the store, like huge black wings (2edgy4me). I would like ESO's cosmetic things to not be this intrusive. Ever.

Wasn't referring to any actual item in GW2's shop, just how creative and original the stuff being sold was in the shop. Much of what they do isn't copying over in game items and making them available in the cash shop.

Xellos77

My two cents.. and not that anyone truly cares or it matters.. but..

I couldn't care less if these "diseases" are offered in the CS. It's a convenience item and both are found in-game so nothing is to be gained besides avoiding the quest. And paying $15 (or your monthly allotment of Crowns).

However..

My only gripe is why now? Where was this when the "bite craze of '15" occurred on console (and I'm sure the prior PC) release? I watched people get scammed left and right. Over. And over. I saw people on reddit offering $50 for a vampire bite. Fifty. Dollars. I saw people begging like vampirism and lycanthropy was the cure to Ebola. Or a plague. Or space herpes. Or something nasty.

The Rift, swarmed with level 3's, chest-deep. Camping "known spawn locations", dozens upon dozens. An ocean of players, with visions of Vlad and Lestat dancing in their heads. All trying to get bitten. Invariably destroying the mobs they sought because 75+ players begin attacking them at first sight, trying to get aggro. Ah, sweet memories. Well, not exactly sweet. But savory. Yes, savory.

Price for a vampire/werewolf bite on PS4 release: upwards of $50+ ...I'd heard of some people offering their first born child.
Price for a vampire/werewolf bite on PS4 right now: free, if you go to the shrine and wait 5 minutes. You can't even get a bite from a guildie. Waiting at the shrine for any longer than 1-2 minutes usually gets you a random bite while s/he is in route to you.

Convenience? It would have been convenience at release. More money would have been made too. It's just kind of a slap in the face now. Luckily, my beard pads the blow.

*drops mic, walks away*

JamilaRaj

Xellos77 wrote: »

My only gripe is why now?

There are two reasons. The first is that ZOS is very weak at programming and might have been simply unable to come up with necessary tech sooner. The second is that they have to start skills for cash schemes with something relatively innocuous. P2W stinks and if they dropped OP skill line into the cash shop out of the blue, it would be very hard to conceal the smell. Even otherwise gullible players could notice it.

MornaBaine

MissBizz wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

Well if you can skip the quest and instantly turn into a vampire or werewolf then I know what I will be buying with my monthly crown sub allowance then.
Having to do the quest is the only thing that has held me back and I have nothing else to spend crowns on they just pile up unused, so may as well. going to go make my lvl 3 werewolf now!

If you can skip the quest, this has become the first step into the P2W realm, I've never played a WW, so I don't know about them. But the vampire skill line has some definate advantages to it.

Yes, I imagine you also instantly gain the achievement related to becoming a vamp or WW too.

One hopes you at least still have to level the skill line. But if they are to the point of selling these in the crown store when are we going to FINALLY get a skin for vampires that makes them look mortal???? I guarantee they'd sell a TON of them!

Xellos77

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Xellos77 wrote: »

My only gripe is why now?

There are two reasons. The first is that ZOS is very weak at programming and might have been simply unable to come up with necessary tech sooner. The second is that they have to start skills for cash schemes with something relatively innocuous. P2W stinks and if they dropped OP skill line into the cash shop out of the blue, it would be very hard to conceal the smell. Even otherwise gullible players could notice it.

Technically, dropping any skill into the CS, such as "1500 Crowns: +10 skill increases to X", isn't P2W. The skills are already in the game and it's not something outside it's scope. Now, adding something like "flying mounts", only purchasable in the CS is different. It's adding something for cash that cannot be found anywhere else in the game.

ZOS could certainly begin adding more and more "cosmetic" items and be able to justify the additions, so long as those items can be found in-game (no matter how difficult to obtain).

The "CS bites" are "innocuous" enough, but it's still perplexing as to why it has become available now. It still would have been much more of a money-maker back at release. They could have charged $50 and made a killing. Someone could have retired on a yacht somewhere.