Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?

Hiero_Glyph

I'm just going to remind everyone that there is an option to ignore specific users.

aldyftb

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I'm just going to remind everyone that there is an option to ignore specific users.

To be fair, if we did, there would be no further contributions to this thread. We've said all that needs saying I think, we just need zos to pull their finger out and give us some kind of reponse.

DenMoria

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I'm just going to remind everyone that there is an option to ignore specific users.

To bad I've run out of ignores. Hey ZoS! Can you give me another 2 or 3 thousand please?

EZgoin76

This is the last thing I'm going to say to Pino and then I'm taking the advice from Hiero. I'm certainly not the only poster here that has ran several linkshells / guilds over the years on console mmo's. So go ahead and add them and all the people they communicated with to my numbers.

Asherons_Call

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

bedlom wrote: »

I know it has been brought up to death and with good reason, we really, really need an optional chat window just like the PC version.

I mean all other console mmo's have one and there still doing ok because they have an in game community, something ESO is lacking IMO and I blame no chat box.

I am tired of spending near or over an hour waiting outside a dungeon or near a world boss, when! I played on PC for a year and got all this stuff done quick and its because of the chat box.

VC is not good for this kind suff and I am expecting alot from these upcoming group findet changes, although i feel it will not be enough.

It is a simple thing to add and aslong as its easy to hide then what is the problem ZOS?

I would love to be able to spent hours in game waiting for groups but I just do not have that time anymore unfortunately, so can we please have this essential piece of what makes a real MMO come to life, because at the moment its just not the same in a very depressing way IMO.

Hopefuly zos you come through on this soon I hope.

While I agree with the OP, I do understand Zenimax's approach. The lack of text chat was a deliberate move to enhance immersion in a game where communication was intended to be as realistic as possible.

I think if Zenimax wanted to make text chat believable and unique to their franchise, they could incorporate an brief animation of perhaps a dove or something. This bird would sit on the shoulder of the player awaiting them to finish typing their message and once done, the player stamps the scroll with their mark and releases the bird in to the sky. Equally, when a player is about to send a message... you'll see a bird descend on to them.

As good as Zeni's intentions were, live voice conversations take all of this "realism" away due to the fact that mc hammer does not exist in tamriel but due to some anomaly in space time we can hear his music playing in daggerfall on Friday night in front of the fountain. Many of the daggerfallians are confused by this but others gain an extreme amount of excitement, strip down to their skivvies, and dance on said fountain

Hammy01

PinoZino wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

...as someone who actually plays MMOs on a console as opposed to just talking out of my posterior about it, there are no "usability issues" with my $20 wireless Keyboard that I've been using since the day I bought my PS4 over a year ago...

Where do you use that keyboard? On a table, a desk or a couch? Maybe on your bed? Another location?

And you don't have to switch devices? You know...

*drop keyboard*
*take gamepad*
*drop gamepad*
*take keyboard*
*drop keyboard*
*take gamepad*
*drop gamepad*
*take keyboard*

...how do you fix that with your $20 wireless keyboard?

Why are you using a keyboard in ESO since you don't have TextChat in that game?

Mailing?

And never had the experience the focus of the keyboard was gone, while entering a message with your $20 wireless keyboard in ESO? In such case, you have to use your gamepad to restore the focus.

You never had that experience? No? Probably because you're not using the in-game ESO mail?

But you have no "usability issues"? I believe you.

The above would be the concern of the player wanting to use a keyboard with text chat.. not your concern.. you are more than happy just using voice chat!

As for me.. my keyboard would be on my lap or right beside me on the couch as I game, always within reach if I should desire to use text chat!

Hiero_Glyph

Hammy01 wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

...as someone who actually plays MMOs on a console as opposed to just talking out of my posterior about it, there are no "usability issues" with my $20 wireless Keyboard that I've been using since the day I bought my PS4 over a year ago...

Where do you use that keyboard? On a table, a desk or a couch? Maybe on your bed? Another location?

And you don't have to switch devices? You know...

*drop keyboard*
*take gamepad*
*drop gamepad*
*take keyboard*
*drop keyboard*
*take gamepad*
*drop gamepad*
*take keyboard*

...how do you fix that with your $20 wireless keyboard?

Why are you using a keyboard in ESO since you don't have TextChat in that game?

Mailing?

And never had the experience the focus of the keyboard was gone, while entering a message with your $20 wireless keyboard in ESO? In such case, you have to use your gamepad to restore the focus.

You never had that experience? No? Probably because you're not using the in-game ESO mail?

But you have no "usability issues"? I believe you.

The above would be the concern of the player wanting to use a keyboard with text chat.. not your concern.. you are more than happy just using voice chat!

As for me.. my keyboard would be on my lap or right beside me on the couch as I game, always within reach if I should desire to use text chat!

FYI, Pino does not use voice chat by his own admission. His ideal form of communication would be a private guild forum and he has stated as much. Yes, the person most against text chat uses no form of in-game communication other than the mail system. Keep this in mind when you consider his opinion in the future.

kaskel2000

And that's what I don't get. Pino doesn't use any form of in game communication, Pino does not socialise in a live environment just in a time delayed non commital way. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, for some it's easier to be able to sit and consider what you want to write before putting it down on paper, but how can you spend what has amounted to dozens of posts against text chat when you don't use any form of live communication???? Even Pino's suggestion of a more advanced predictive text system is still avoiding the idea of talking in a live environment. And really that's fine. If you don't like live communication then your not a lone in this world, there are plenty others who also feel the same.

BUT the rest of humanity that are naturally social would like to also be social in our online multiplayer games. and this is why voice chat only is a brilliant failure. Humans are social and like to talk but we are also not that great at talking to strangers. And that's what eveyr pug is so there's a great reason why we don't all plug in our headphones and start talking. With text chat you can become slightly more anonymous and it's easier to say what you are thinking, thus why internet trolls exist where as in real life very few people would do the same. we need to be able to communicate in a way that gets our point across, allows us to be social and form bonds, makes us less worried about being judged and allows for a large amount of people to all communicate at once. Voice chat doesn't do that. Text chat does.

Pino's thing about Hyde park and the soap box maybe culturally relevant to London and its history (trust me it's an awesome place if you've never been!) but in itself shows a complete lack of understanding on what we want. I don't want to sit in dagger fall and be the centre of attention while everyone stands around me as I speak. I just want to be able to talk to people in the zone and form groups and relationships from that. even if I was allowed to stand on a soap box and text chat for a group I still need to be able to talk to others at other times.

I was insensed by Pino's comments about hard of hearing and how designers should design for the majority first. In the 21st century you take as many different groups into consideration as you can with an interface and accessibility features. I agree that sometimes making something as simple for the masses will also help those with disabilitys but this doesn't mean that you are allowed to forget those that have extra needs to be able to enjoy your product. Most companies will include as many accessibility features as they can budget permitting because every potential customer is a customer (yeah I don't think they do it for anything other than money in most cases). By saying to a hard of hearing questioner that you are going to include text chat for there disability then go against that paints a really bad picture on the company. Even if there reasons for not including it are different to go against that original statement just seems like they are putting the middle finger to all there potential hard of hearing customers.

In short Pino (just to give you something to quote ) if you don't use any form of live communication in this game then that's fine, you are still allowed to state your opinion but I don't think it's right that you've spent 30 odd pages text chat when you don't even use voice chat. It would be like me arguing for countless posts about how bad the London Underground is and how it shouldn't be improved when I never use it. (Though I did today lol for the first time in ages ).

Artheiron

PinoZino wrote: »

The users don't care about the complexity of the code. For them the UI is the software, not the code.
And the UI isn't even that complex in ESO.

If you design complex UI's or simple ones, the base is always the same: observing real users while they are using the product.

Or at least, it should be the base.

You're still trying to compare 2 diffrent things. I don't think you read and understood what I told you there.

PinoZino wrote: »

Finally, you talk about context. But you forget to add many other context parameters:

• For most console players, the gamepad is their main input device
• Using a keyboard on a couch isn't that fun
• Shifting between devices is always a pain
• ...

It suggests...you have to focus on a solution serving the gamepad user. If you have one then you could support keyboard players in THAT solution.

With TextChat you force de facto the players to use a keyboard. Not only this isn’t advisable, the keyboard will bring new usability issues: the shifting devices paradox.

For most console players, the gamepad is their main input device

Does it have to be their main communication way? Also since when these "many console players" you stated there hardcore MMORPG players? Where's your source of information?

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PlayStation/zgbs/videogames/4924897011
These are top seller ps games, I can't see mmos here.


Using a keyboard on a couch isn't that fun

It doesn't have to be fun. It needs to save the day. An alternative when you're unable to speak.


Shifting between devices is always a pain

How many times do you chat when you're action? Even on PC. You use voice and ts (pc) when you're in a cyrodiil group or a challenging trial. This isn't a valid reason to take away people's right to type.

I mean seriously did you play mmos before? let me explain this. Belive it or not. In MMORPGs sometimes you don't fight! You sit down and chat about this and that. You send pms about a matter. Humans are quite social creatures, did you know that?

PinoZino wrote: »

Language issues aren't solved by typing.

I can't answer your question about disabilities, social issues, temporary illnesses and others. But I might do later.

Language issues can be solved typing. One of my in game friend is a great example. He knows his English accent is so gosh darn bad he choose to type us when he needed to explain something indispensable. Also he's not alone. Like I said earlier and you didn't mind deleting that part of the quote, when I was young and inexperienced I personally had very same issue too. In EU, this is quite common. Not a major issue of course but why would you block them to explain themselves when they needed to?

PinoZino wrote: »

Mr. Einstein says:

"The solutions of the players aren't important. Don't look at it. Never. These solutions are evil. Players are players. They don't have the academic background nor the experience in solving usability or UX solutions.

But a dev team, any dev team, should take the requirement(s) behind the solution very serious, in this case: we need better communication features".

You know the story behind the Ford Edsel?

People drive often a lot with their cars. You would assume they have many excellent ideas about design, features and functions in cars.

Just, like you pretend you have with the UI of games.

Ford assumed the public would and the Edsel was 'designed' for a big part by the opinions of the public.

It was a fiasco, it's still considered as one of the biggest mistakes in the car business.
Inflation-adjusted it costed Ford about $1.85 billion.

Why? Because car drivers don't have the academic background nor the experience in designing cars or one of its features.

They are drivers, not engineers.

Why should ZOS build a new Edsel?

I know the story of the Edsel. They briefly teached us about the failures they made when I studied industrial design. It's a good example not gonna lie. Asking customer "what should we do" is like going to a restaurant and telling the chief I want beef but put sugar on it.

It remind me how Mercedes failed to begin the mass production of the Luigi Colani's truck. It was too good to be true. Designer's background matters here. When you do your homework right, your cusomers would less complain and won't write 100s pages here demaning a function. There's something wrong here.

What could be wrong?

so, is paul sage a colani? this new creative director a jony ive? who are these guys and what's their background? their team have a legendary guy like Todd Howard here? or a creative guy like will wright? or a promising genius like sean murray? what did they really achieved in their career to handle a giant franchise like tes and one of the highest budget mmo in the market?

What I'm seeing here is Apple made a oversized ipad but gave no option for people to use a digital pen on its surface.
Wait but apple released a pen recently?! yes, with new ipad pro you can use a pen. Because that's apple, they know wth they are doing. These people who designed this game know what they are doing? I'm not quite sure.

If they say, we didn't give you an option to type because it'd be too small on your TV screen. Then why you let people send prefab texts? aren't they also undreadable? Did you try to fix this issue like letting people to adjust the text size?

Or do you have an alternative? I'll go as utopic as possible here. How about a mobile phone app that syncs with your in game friend list and group? how about a creative way to using the touch controller to type that works like swype? how about pencils lol. Jk.

how about... a great controller design, made exclusively for eso and sold seperately?

Removing a function which is fundemental for a mmorpg this big is just a lazyass designing. That's all.

Reconsider what you are saying. You seem like an educated person but your answers are mostly biased and makes you look like you're not experienced in mmos.

I'm outta here.

Ace_of_Destiny

All platforms should be equalized.
If something is offered on one, it should be offered on all.
PC is getting controller support like Consoles have.
So, Consoles should get the same communication tools that PC has.

Both should be optional on all platforms.
Fair is fair.
Why should I pay the same subscription fee as PC does and not get the same "ease of communication"?

terrordactyl1971

My Iphone has Google Translate. It can perfectly translate my voice into text for multiple languages. Do we even need a keyboard to text chat? Why not speak into your mic and it turns it into text chat on the screen - can't be that hard if a mobile phone app can do it.

I can pick up my Iphone now and speak "looking for group dungeon x" and it will produce that as text on the screen - even if I want that to be translated into German....would be useful on the EU megaservers.

Tommy1979AtWar

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

My Iphone has Google Translate. It can perfectly translate my voice into text for multiple languages. Do we even need a keyboard to text chat? Why not speak into your mic and it turns it into text chat on the screen - can't be that hard if a mobile phone app can do it.

I can pick up my Iphone now and speak "looking for group dungeon x" and it will produce that as text on the screen - even if I want that to be translated into German....would be useful on the EU megaservers.

Whilst a good idea in theory there are still people with phonemic disorders and speech impediments etc to consider so the simplest solution is most likely going to be text chat.

DenMoria

To be honest OP, at this point, meh...

Since I only very rarely even use the chat feature at all anyhow, and I've been waiting for text for so long that I've grown tired of it.

Meh... If we get it we get it. Otherwise, I'll just have to adapt and get a voice modulator so my speech impediment doesn't sound so goofy.

terrordactyl1971

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

My Iphone has Google Translate. It can perfectly translate my voice into text for multiple languages. Do we even need a keyboard to text chat? Why not speak into your mic and it turns it into text chat on the screen - can't be that hard if a mobile phone app can do it.

I can pick up my Iphone now and speak "looking for group dungeon x" and it will produce that as text on the screen - even if I want that to be translated into German....would be useful on the EU megaservers.

Whilst a good idea in theory there are still people with phonemic disorders and speech impediments etc to consider so the simplest solution is most likely going to be text chat.

That is text chat, it just allows you to enter the text via a keyboard or voice - it's not an either/or situation

anitajoneb17_ESO

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

My Iphone has Google Translate. It can perfectly translate my voice into text for multiple languages. Do we even need a keyboard to text chat? Why not speak into your mic and it turns it into text chat on the screen - can't be that hard if a mobile phone app can do it.

I can pick up my Iphone now and speak "looking for group dungeon x" and it will produce that as text on the screen - even if I want that to be translated into German....would be useful on the EU megaservers.

Perfectly ? I doubt that very much ! :-)

But yes voice recognition could be an option (for text input via microphone). At least for zone, group, guild and proximity chat. For whispers, I guess you'd have trouble indicating to the microphone to whom the whisper is supposed to go.

Asherons_Call

via Imgflip Meme Maker

MangoSsk

I want to cry about it... But on a serious note wtf? Why cant we have text chat this has been said since they moved it to console. Is it that hard to enter a keyboard and chat system?

Hiero_Glyph

MangoSsk wrote: »

I want to cry about it... But on a serious note wtf? Why cant we have text chat this has been said since they moved it to console. Is it that hard to enter a keyboard and chat system?

Because ZOS. Honestly, for any other developer this is a non-issue.

Tommy1979AtWar

Asherons_Call wrote: »

via Imgflip Meme Maker

That made me LOL have an awesome buddy

Nergie4242

Just my weekly check in on the progress of this.

Used to be daily.

Soon I wont care at all.

gg ZOS

BalticBlues

Nergie4242 wrote: »

Soon I wont care at all.

Yes, soon it will be too late, I am afraid.
Most of the MMO crowd already moved on to other console games with better social interaction.
Big guilds are disassembling, consolidating in smaller guilds, we will see if these can survive.

Yesterday evening, for the 1st time the group finder did not find me a single group for the daily.
Let's hope that at least the Single Players will be happy with Orsinium.

ZOS should offer a PC transfer for lonely console MMO players who want to return to PC.

Ace_of_Destiny

All platforms should be equalized.

BalticBlues

Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »

All platforms should be equalized.

Indeed. Moreover, ...

1. All platforms should be able to play cross-plattform with each other.

2. Subcribers should be able to play on any platform they like.

3. Player profiles should be cross-platform too, so that people could change platforms at will. I prefer playing on PS4, but if my daughter uses our PS4, I would like to be able to play my characters on PC at this time.

Astaris

Hmmm, I use my Bluetooth keyboard on my PS/4 all the time, to enter credit card info, send messages, and when I play other MMO's. But when I play ESO , I am told my IQ drops 100 points and I am incapable of using a keyboard and controller.

I don't get it. Once again , if its an OPTION and you hate it, don't use it! However, don't lecture me and tell me I'm such a noob, because I would CHOOSE to swap between keyboard and controller.






My 2.2 cents

Nergie4242

Astaris wrote: »

Hmmm, I use my Bluetooth keyboard on my PS/4 all the time, to enter credit card info, send messages, and when I play other MMO's. But when I play ESO , I am told my IQ drops 100 points and I am incapable of using a keyboard and controller.

I don't get it. Once again , if its an OPTION and you hate it, don't use it! However, don't lecture me and tell me I'm such a noob, because I would CHOOSE to swap between keyboard and controller.






My 2.2 cents

Oddly the same thing happened at the planning meeting discussing text chat at zos headquarters...

Nergie4242

See im guessing the total lack of action on this thread means the pro text crowd have finally given up. You can come out now zos, you finally drove us all away. Its a shame and oh so pointless.

Asherons_Call

BalticBlues wrote: »

Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »

All platforms should be equalized.

Indeed. Moreover, ...

1. All platforms should be able to play cross-plattform with each other.

2. Subcribers should be able to play on any platform they like.

3. Player profiles should be cross-platform too, so that people could change platforms at will. I prefer playing on PS4, but if my daughter uses our PS4, I would like to be able to play my characters on PC at this time.

Wouldn't that be amazing? A truly open platform environment.. I have yet to see anything like this and as unfortunate as it is.. Probably never will. Reason being that Sony, Microsoft, Apple, etc are all too arrogant to take the first step

Eleusian

Nergie4242 wrote: »

See im guessing the total lack of action on this thread means the pro text crowd have finally given up. You can come out now zos, you finally drove us all away. Its a shame and oh so pointless.

Barely anyone left. Dear ZOS Overlords please give us text chat so we can communicate and form groups without using 25 voice channels , or heaven forbid communicating with people without mics since they did not come with the game purchase. Oh well as usual back to Final Fantasy

dday3six

You know two times this month voice has glitched out, and went unavailable. Granted it's only done it a handful of times before. However the stability of the game overall is in a downward spiral, and lag in both PVP and PVE is at an all time high. So what happens if voice being useable randomly becomes the norm?

FilteredRiddle

Why hasn't this happened yet...?