Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?

dday3six

PinoZino wrote: »

...And I'm feeling more fine, because I know they will never install TextChat in this game...

My lua is rusty but the UI error which occurs on PS4 with the next login, after a player closes down the App without logging out in game first. Points to Text Chat actually being installed in game already, just hidden. The error reads as if the values were removed, and the window is minimized.

In the history of ESO many players have said X will never happen. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. However we as players cannot know with absolute certainty either way. Particularly when ZOS has not recently addressed the issue.

You saying "...they will never...", I translate as you really saying "I don't want it to happen, stop talking about it."

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

All the negatives you listed wouldn't really affect you if you just disabled it because it would be an optional feature.

I can't see the benefit of the other feature improvements you listed when I genuinely feel text chat could provide soo much more social benefits in one package.

Again these are just my opinions, and I feel the game lacks basic MMO vibes due to lack of text chat.

Hope ZOS adds it in the near future. Peace out peeps.

I don't have to disable it. There's no TexChat.

But YOU can have TextChat today. If you really want TextChat, use IRC or another chat service on your computer, smartphone or tablet.

Then you can sell Vampire Bites to other people who want to sell Vampire Bites.

Cadbury

BINGO!! Congrats, thread

PinoZino

dday3six wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

...And I'm feeling more fine, because I know they will never install TextChat in this game...

My lua is rusty but the UI error which occurs on PS4 with the next login, after a player closes down the App without logging out in game first. Points to Text Chat actually being installed in game already, just hidden. The error reads as if the values were removed, and the window is minimized.

In the history of ESO many players have said X will never happen. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. However we as players cannot know with absolute certainty either way. Particularly when ZOS has not recently addressed the issue.

You saying "...they will never...", I translate as you really saying "I don't want it to happen, stop talking about it."

They experimented with, tested and evaluated TextChat on the console, maybe this is just some old code? Could be old ported code as well.

In fact ZOS was pretty clear why they didn't implement TextChat. Basically they said it didn't work out in the context of use of a console player: most of them are sitting in a couch. Not the best spot for using a keyboard and the continuously device shifting (keyboard/gamepad) isn't fun as well.

Unless the Console player would change his biotope and thus the context of use, you will never ever have TextChat. But it’s unlikely he would leave his couch soon.

Instead of creating just another 'We want TextChat' post, why are you not using a third-party chat client today?

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

Instead of creating just another 'We want TextChat' post, why are you not using a third-party chat client today?

Pino, really, don't play dumb, please :-)

You know very well that 3rd party apps can only be used ONCE your group (guild, contacts, whatever) is formed, and that text chat is needed for communicating with strangers / the entire zone or area, in order to find those people in the first place.

This is why voice chat is NOT needed on PC where groups / guilds / contacts are formed via text chat and we use TeamSpeak or Mumble then, while text hat is VERY MUCH NEEDED in consoles IN ORDER TO form these groups in the first place. Without text chat, how are you going to get people on to your 3rd party text chat system ?

Nobody asks for text chat for group communication, people are asking for it for area/zone communication, and whispers.

I play on PC thus I'm not primarily concerned but I wonder why hardly anyone mentions that the lack of text chat hinders everyone who doesn't speak english, or doesn't speak it well. Everyone can learn to type "LFG gold pledge", it's more difficult to get on a mic and shout "I'm looking for a group for the gold pledge, please" if you don't actually speak english. How are you guys dealing with languages on consoles, especially in Europe ?

Riga_Mortis

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

UltimaJoe777

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

Then they probably never should've tried playing one on consoles...

Riga_Mortis

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

Then they probably never should've tried playing one on consoles...

Really, cause the years they've spent and enjoyed DCUO, a console mmo btw, means they shouldn't expect ESO to appeal to them in a similar fashion?

Prof_Bawbag

But ESO isn't DCUO. That was their mistake. Not every game has to incorporate the same features as another. Hence the reason they're classed as different game.

UltimaJoe777

Dazza1968 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

Then they probably never should've tried playing one on consoles...

Really, cause the years they've spent and enjoyed DCUO, a console mmo btw, means they shouldn't expect ESO to appeal to them in a similar fashion?

If text chat is the only thing tieing them to any MMO then they are playing with fire playing them on consoles... Would be easier if they just played on PC.

Riga_Mortis

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

Then they probably never should've tried playing one on consoles...

Really, cause the years they've spent and enjoyed DCUO, a console mmo btw, means they shouldn't expect ESO to appeal to them in a similar fashion?

If text chat is the only thing tieing them to any MMO then they are playing with fire playing them on consoles... Would be easier if they just played on PC.

You're right it would be easier playing on PC as it gives the basic mmo features they want/desire.
But then again when they've successfully enjoyed previous console mmos, is it wrong to assume ESO would be any different for them?

As I've said they gave it a good go, and yes text chat being absent was enough of a game breaker that they returned to the mmos they played prior to this.

All in all, if text chat was added I think most of my friends would come back to ESO, is it wrong of me to want that?

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Pino, really, don't play dumb, please :-)

You know very well that 3rd party apps can only be used ONCE your group (guild, contacts, whatever) is formed, and that text chat is needed for communicating with strangers / the entire zone or area, in order to find those people in the first place.

It doesn't have to be like that. I'm a bit amused about the lack of creativity and imagination of the ESO community.
Most of us expect solutions from ZOS for everything, while you can solve many things on your own.

If I would think for 1 second that TextChat is a nice idea, I would setup a website with a chat functionality, accessible for all.
I could divide it in as many private (for guilds) or non-private channels as I want.

It would cost me a half day, maybe a day to develop it. And I'm just another so-so programmer.

If the pro TextChat people are right, it would be an instant success, used by hundred thousands of players. It would make me rich. Lol

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

This is why voice chat is NOT needed on PC where groups / guilds / contacts are formed via text chat and we use TeamSpeak or Mumble then, while text hat is VERY MUCH NEEDED in consoles IN ORDER TO form these groups in the first place. Without text chat, how are you going to get people on to your 3rd party text chat system in the first place ?

Not the entire ESO world has to be on that chat site, only a few thousands would do.

How to get them at that website? Linking at other websites, using social media, SEO, word of mouth, ...

Even Google AdWords is a solution (you can get coupons for $50, $100 or even $200 free advertisements). And a bit an amateur internet-marketingboy could find other solutions to get the people moving to your site.

Why are all these armchairs developers not setting up something like that?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nobody asks for text chat for group communication, people are asking for it for area/zone communication, and whispers.

I play on PC thus I'm not primarily concerned but I wonder why hardly anyone mentions that the lack of text chat hinders everyone who doesn't speak english, or don't speak it well. Everyone can learn to type "LFG gold pledge", it's more difficult to get on a mic and shout "I'm looking for a group for the gold pledge, please" if you don't actually speak english. How are you guys dealing with languages on consoles, especially in Europe ?

It's certainly true. In USA and till a certain degree in UK too, many people assume entire Europe speaks and writes fluently English.

It isn't at all. In many European countries and regions it's even hard to find people who have an elementary knowledge about that language.

Partly they solve it by forming specific language guilds.

In ESO we have already guilds where the lingua franca is German, French, Dutch, Italian or different.

Look, the game has certainly some serious communications problems, but the question remains "Is TextChat the solution?"

I think it will not solve a lot, if anything. Few people would use TextChat, the overwhelming majority wouldn't due the context of use.

We have to think out of the box and think about better stuff.

Yesterday, I played Grepolis. It’s an MMO too, you fight and defend cities together with your tribe members against countless other tribes. Most play the game on their PC.

They have an in-game TextChat, but few are using it. While speed of communication is very important in that game.

Why? Because they have better solutions to communicate:

• A much better and richer mail-system
• An in-game private tribe forum

Half of the time the people are not playing, but talking. Talking about game issues, but still talking.

IMHO, if ESO wants to survive on the long term, they certainly should manage we start talking more too.

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

Then they probably never should've tried playing one on consoles...

Really, cause the years they've spent and enjoyed DCUO, a console mmo btw, means they shouldn't expect ESO to appeal to them in a similar fashion?

No. Why do you assume all the DCUO players used TextChat? They really don't.

Riga_Mortis

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Theres a reason my friends have gone back to the mmos they were playing before trying ESO, and that's purely lack of text chat. Damn shame really.

Then they probably never should've tried playing one on consoles...

Really, cause the years they've spent and enjoyed DCUO, a console mmo btw, means they shouldn't expect ESO to appeal to them in a similar fashion?

No. Why do you assume all the DCUO players used TextChat? They really don't.

Dude I take you for an intelligent guy, so you must realise I'm talking about my friends experiences.

Everyone I played DCUO with, again my experience, used text chat.

Please don't try and speak about my experiences or those of my friends, thankyou.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Pino, really, don't play dumb, please :-)

You know very well that 3rd party apps can only be used ONCE your group (guild, contacts, whatever) is formed, and that text chat is needed for communicating with strangers / the entire zone or area, in order to find those people in the first place.

It doesn't have to be like that. I'm a bit amused about the lack of creativity and imagination of the ESO community.
Most of us expect solutions from ZOS for everything, while you can solve many things on your own.

If I would think for 1 second that TextChat is a nice idea, I would setup a website with a chat functionality, accessible for all.
I could divide it in as many private (for guilds) or non-private channels as I want.

I admit I totally fail to understand how you can compare a web-based application probably forcing people to switch windows (if not devices entirely) with an ingame function that would allow people to follow things up while playing.

(I don't quote the rest of your post since it would be too long, but I basically agree with what you said - without leading to the conclusion that text chat is not needed on consoles. Let me just mention that on PC, most language-based-guilds, i.e. non-english, recruit via... text chat.).

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Dude I take you for an intelligent guy, so you must realise I'm talking about my friends experiences.

Everyone I played DCUO with, again my experience, used text chat.

Please don't try and speak about my experiences or those of my friends, thankyou.

So you used anecdotal evidence? Ok. Nothing to add.

aldyftb

I played Dcuo, used the text chat as well as voice chat religiously. I'm also playing FF14,, that only has test chat, but again, its used religiously. Its the most efficient way of finding a group or answer for any situation. That its not included as an option in any MMO is just dumb. Yes, i understand its not for everyone, good on you if it works for you, but quite simply its not working for everyone. I for one am missing out on a lot of what this game has to offer, and as i've said before, its a shame, i see so much potential

Riga_Mortis

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Dude I take you for an intelligent guy, so you must realise I'm talking about my friends experiences.

Everyone I played DCUO with, again my experience, used text chat.

Please don't try and speak about my experiences or those of my friends, thankyou.

So you used anecdotal evidence? Ok. Nothing to add.

I take it back, I no longer think you're an intelligent guy.

aldyftb

Dazza1968 wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Dude I take you for an intelligent guy, so you must realise I'm talking about my friends experiences.

Everyone I played DCUO with, again my experience, used text chat.

Please don't try and speak about my experiences or those of my friends, thankyou.

So you used anecdotal evidence? Ok. Nothing to add.

I take it back, I no longer think you're an intelligent guy.

I just spat coffee all over my keyboard, thanks Dazza1968 lol

Cadbury

Dazza1968 wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Dude I take you for an intelligent guy, so you must realise I'm talking about my friends experiences.

Everyone I played DCUO with, again my experience, used text chat.

Please don't try and speak about my experiences or those of my friends, thankyou.

So you used anecdotal evidence? Ok. Nothing to add.

I take it back, I no longer think you're an intelligent guy.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I admit I totally fail to understand how you can compare a web-based application probably forcing people to switch windows (if not devices entirely) with an ingame function that would allow people to follow things up while playing.

(I don't quote the rest of your post since it would be too long, but I basically agree with what you said - without leading to the conclusion that text chat is not needed on consoles. Let me just mention that on PC, most language-based-guilds, i.e. non-english, recruit via... text chat.).

It's not that it's equal, more like it is a solution. Only, I don't believe in it, again due the context of use. It's sharing the same issues with just connecting a keyboard to your console:

Mainly, you still have to switch devices a lot

Drop gamepad, take notebook, tablet or smartphone. Write.
Drop notebook, tablet or smartphone, take Gamepad. Fight or explore.
Drop gamepad, take notebook, tablet or smartphone. Write.
Drop notebook, tablet or smartphone, take Gamepad. Fight or explore.

Do this 20 times in 15 minutes and many of us would say ‘Goodbye, I want to see how my garden is growing’ and leave.

Sure, I believe you that on PC it works very well. But PC people are a different race. They are, most of them, already sitting comfortable behind a keyboard and one hand is already on it.

That's a very important context issue, most pro TextChat people ignore or underestimate.

You can’t solve that with TextChat on the Console, but you can use other solutions to minimize the impact of the device shifting.

dday3six

PinoZino wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

...And I'm feeling more fine, because I know they will never install TextChat in this game...

My lua is rusty but the UI error which occurs on PS4 with the next login, after a player closes down the App without logging out in game first. Points to Text Chat actually being installed in game already, just hidden. The error reads as if the values were removed, and the window is minimized.

In the history of ESO many players have said X will never happen. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. However we as players cannot know with absolute certainty either way. Particularly when ZOS has not recently addressed the issue.

You saying "...they will never...", I translate as you really saying "I don't want it to happen, stop talking about it."

They experimented with, tested and evaluated TextChat on the console, maybe this is just some old code? Could be old ported code as well.

In fact ZOS was pretty clear why they didn't implement TextChat. Basically they said it didn't work out in the context of use of a console player: most of them are sitting in a couch. Not the best spot for using a keyboard and the continuously device shifting (keyboard/gamepad) isn't fun as well.

Unless the Console player would change his biotope and thus the context of use, you will never ever have TextChat. But it’s unlikely he would leave his couch soon.

Instead of creating just another 'We want TextChat' post, why are you not using a third-party chat client today?

The testers who "tested" text chat were likely the same ones who tested the control templates. Let's examine that notion for a moment. Weapon Swap is on the left directional. It's used often (every 10s with some builds) yet it's on an input that requires a player to completely take their thumb off the toggle to use. It's a un-intuitive, and many console players will tell you it's clunky at best. That is IMO a large oversight, and it is likely testers were not as familiar with using a controller vs KBM. Given that, there is the possibility those same testers were simply not very adept at typing with the virtal keyboard.

It is a huge misconception that a physical keyboard is needed to type. It's handy for longer, detailed, and complex typing. However for short and simple messages a digital one functions fine. Console users are able to message one another using virtual keyboards. They are able to input passwords and emails, credit card details and billing addresses. As well as codes for purchases. So it is not unfathomable they could also type: "VR16 Daily LF Heals" or "WTS Gold Upgrade Mats".

Also one can set on their couch and use a keyboard. I personally set mine on the arm rest. There are as well thumb keyboard attachments for both consoles that plug into the controller. Many people know how to text rather acutely with their thumbs thanks to cell phones.

Ultimately third party is outside of the game. Thus, while it might be helpful when once a group is found. It's next to useless for finding said group. It does not overcome the limited broadcast range of proximity voice chat either. If I were looking for a group. Being able to adverse that over the whole zone would allow the message to reach more players. Thereby increaseing the sucess rate.

aldyftb

Using a keyboard on a console is not alien, its something many of us have done for years.

PinoZino

aldyftb wrote: »

Using a keyboard on a console is not alien, its something many few of us have done for years.

I corrected your text.

Many people even don't know you can attach a keyboard to a console.
In a very few games the keyboard has an important role.

Most game companies just ignored the keyboard or supported it very weakly. Hey, you can use a keyboard in the Console version of ESO too. For mailing. But it isn't wow. You can't switch between recipient, subject and message using your keyboard.

And that’s a bit the standard in almost every console game.

We are all trained and somehow forced to use the gamepad and to ignore the keyboard on the console.

aldyftb

PinoZino wrote: »

aldyftb wrote: »

Using a keyboard on a console is not alien, its something many few of us have done for years.

I corrected your text.

Many people even don't know you can attach a keyboard to a console.
In a very few games the keyboard has an important role.

Most game companies just ignored the keyboard or supported it very weakly. Hey, you can use a keyboard in the Console version of ESO too. For mailing. But it isn't wow. You can't switch between recipient, subject and message using your keyboard.

And that’s a bit the standard in almost every console game.

We are all trained and somehow forced to use the gamepad and to ignore the keyboard on the console.

You make a lot of assumptions for someone who is constantly asking people not to make assumptions. PeopIe are not as dumb as you are making them out to be, we live in a tech savvy world

Riga_Mortis

"We are all trained and somehow forced to use the gamepad and to ignore the keyboard on the console."

Pino you correct others text and yet throw around statements like the above.

I am neither trained or forced to ignore keyboard, so clearly it's not "we are all", maybe you should correct you own text aswell.

PinoZino

dday3six wrote: »

The testers who "tested" text chat were likely the same ones who tested the control templates. Let's examine that notion for a moment. Weapon Swap is on the left directional. It's used often (every 10s with some builds) yet it's on an input that requires a player to completely take their thumb off the toggle to use. It's a un-intuitive, and many console players will tell you it's clunky at best. That is IMO a large oversight, and it is likely testers were not as familiar with using a controller vs KBM. Given that, there is the possibility those same testers were simply not very adept at typing with the virtal keyboard.

It is a huge misconception that a physical keyboard is needed to type. It's handy for longer, detailed, and complex typing. However for short and simple messages a digital one functions fine. Console users are able to message one another using virtual keyboards. They are able to input passwords and emails, credit card details and billing addresses. As well as codes for purchases. So it is not unfathomable they could also type: "VR16 Daily LF Heals" or "WTS Gold Upgrade Mats".

Also one can set on their couch and use a keyboard. I personally set mine on the arm rest. There are as well thumb keyboard attachments for both consoles that plug into the controller. Many people know how to text rather acutely with their thumbs thanks to cell phones.

Ultimately third party is outside of the game. Thus, while it might be helpful when once a group is found. It's next to useless for finding said group. It does not overcome the limited broadcast range of proximity voice chat either. If I were looking for a group. Being able to adverse that over the whole zone would allow the message to reach more players. Thereby increaseing the sucess rate.

Based on the information I have, it's even more likely the testers were not players, but just some dev people. We call this 'hallway testing'.

I would not recommend and use that technique. However, it's usually still better as no testing at all.

I agree, some people will use abbreviations and stuff, but not all. It would also take some time to learn 'the language' or jargon.

And that's a problem. TextChat isn't mandatory functionality. It suggests that the ease of learning and ease of use should be better good, else they use it less or refuse it at all.

If something is mandatory and bad designed, you still use it, because you have to.

I use a keyboard while playing ESO too. Console is in the bedroom with a beamer. I play while sitting on my bed. While I can use a keyboard in that position, it isn't as comfortable as using the same keyboard on a desk or table.

If I hadn’t to mail so much, I would not use it at all.

aldyftb

If it was optional though, who would it hurt? and how many would benefit?

Prof_Bawbag

aldyftb wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

aldyftb wrote: »

Using a keyboard on a console is not alien, its something many few of us have done for years.

I corrected your text.

Many people even don't know you can attach a keyboard to a console.
In a very few games the keyboard has an important role.

Most game companies just ignored the keyboard or supported it very weakly. Hey, you can use a keyboard in the Console version of ESO too. For mailing. But it isn't wow. You can't switch between recipient, subject and message using your keyboard.

And that’s a bit the standard in almost every console game.

We are all trained and somehow forced to use the gamepad and to ignore the keyboard on the console.

You make a lot of assumptions for someone who is constantly asking people not to make assumptions. PeopIe are not as dumb as you are making them out to be, we live in a tech savvy world

You overestimate people. Ever wonder why TV shows, aimed at adults, for example insert "don't try this at home" disclaimers or fast food companies attach a "hot contents" print to their cups and so on? Because there's a lot of clueless people out there. How about those people that sit for hours upon hours without breaks playing games and then run to the press saying [inset random game here] gave them a fit etc. There's a reason why common sense disclaimers get inserted and it's not because we're all too smart.

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I take it back, I no longer think you're an intelligent guy.

No more arguments, so the shouting starts.

Well, you're not a friend or close family. It's really not important what you think about me. No hard feelings, but it's even more important what my dog thinks about me.

Anyway, I don't share your opinion, so I have to be unintelligent? Ok.