Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?

Riga_Mortis

I'd love it pino if you started your own thread with a poll about using mail system to communicate over text chat, and then maybe you will finally see just how silly you are coming across with these nonsensical replies.

Mickey_Ox

PinoZino wrote: »

You forgot that most don't have a keyboard attached.

You seem to forget the consoles have abuilt in virtual keyboard, it also has a pretty good predictive text so even typing long unusual names only has to be done once as the next time it appears in your suggested words section.
And please don't tell me its hard or awkward to use as I have used it for chatting in DCUO for 2+ years without ever needing to attach a keboard. If you can't use it for whatever reason thats your issue

Cillion3117

This is still a thing?

Riga_Mortis

Cillion3117 wrote: »

This is still a thing?

Yeah it's still a thing as pinozino keeps bumping it to the front page with his studies, surveys, and analytical superpowers lol.

aldyftb

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I'd love it pino if you started your own thread with a poll about using mail system to communicate over text chat, and then maybe you will finally see just how silly you are coming across with these nonsensical replies.

But studies say poll results dont reflect true numbers.....

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

You have to learn a command as complicated as /t, is your reply?

Just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper buddy.

Would it be the only command? Probably not.
There's a reason why GUI replaced textbased OS.

And what about the speed issue?

/t Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X

While you're entering DKH, I'm already creating my actual message.

It could be possible that you have to redo your message as well. Because you didn't enter 'Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X' but 'Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xx-X'

How you react is just a fine example, why opinions about UI don't work:

* You don't think about the consequences
* You don't think about the context (no keyboard on console)
* You act like all the users are like you. I might do it, so can we all
* You are used to a situation on the PC and want just the same on the console. Other ideas are refuted by definition because they are 'new' and 'unknown'.
* You even are not aware about your own requirements: creating a message and delivering it at the right person fast.

aldyftb

Cillion3117 wrote: »

This is still a thing?

Its gonna continue until zos gives a response. Its obviously something we all feel pretty strongly about.

Vulsahdaal

PinoZino wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

So how exactly does this in-game forum work then? Lets just use his last 3 examples-

A random unknown to him player is sitting in front of a dungeon across the map somewhere, wants to let people know he is LFG.
Another random unknown to him player on the other side of the map wants to call for help at a dolmen.
How do they do this with your in-game forum idea?
And how is he able to view this in game forum to see their calls, while he is doing things in the open world?

You can't fix that with a forum alone.

I didnt think so, but youre the one who suggested a forum would be a better choice for these issues, so I figured Id ask..

PinoZino wrote: »

A forum is very nice for Guild issues.

This could be, but Guild issues arent the problem here.

PinoZino wrote: »

I'm wondering why we can't easily mail a random person. We can, but it's not easy.

Well on Xbox1, I dont think we can. I believe it is required to know the gamertag of the person you are mailing in order to do this. But this is irrelevent here, the issue at hand is communicating with many unknown random players, not just one individual.

PinoZino wrote: »

I don't know why you should see the messages of a random person not nearby

Because this is the person that needs help, and I am a helpful type person

PinoZino wrote: »

How will you manage that when hundreds of people are in the area? You can't fix that with TextChat as well.

Sure you can, it works very nicely on PC.
But I dont understand what you mean by 100s of people in the area? Why is this an issue? Because even if there were, its not like they block my view of the text chat box?

PinoZino

Mickey_Ox wrote: »

You seem to forget the consoles have abuilt in virtual keyboard, it also has a pretty good predictive text so even typing long unusual names only has to be done once as the next time it appears in your suggested words section.
And please don't tell me its hard or awkward to use as I have used it for chatting in DCUO for 2+ years without ever needing to attach a keboard. If you can't use it for whatever reason thats your issue

No, I didn't forget.

Want to play a game?

We both have to contact some mister Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X.

I'll use 'my' solution: click person, select 'SEND MESSAGE' and enter message.

And you may type with your virtual keyboard /t Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X and enter the message.

Who would win the race?

Riga_Mortis

Pino, if another way of communicating quickly was superior to text chat don't you think most mmos would incorporate it as a standard feature?

There's a reason why communicating via in game mail is not primarily used over voice or text chat in mmos, and that is something even you should be able to figure out.

aldyftb

With a text chat option though pino, when pressing select on that person and then message.....it would go to that person as a private message in thechat box...you're really overthinking the matter...text chat is a very basic concept, you really dont need a degree in usability to understand how it works.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

Want to play a game?

We both have to contact some mister Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X.

I'll use 'my' solution: click person, select 'SEND MESSAGE' and enter message.

And you may type with your virtual keyboard /t Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X and enter the message.

Who would win the race?

You're presenting it wrong.
The alternatives here are :

your "solution" : click person, select 'SEND MESSAGE' and enter message.

and this solution : click person, select "whisper" and enter message that shows in text chat box.

Who would win the race ?

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I'd love it pino if you started your own thread with a poll about using mail system to communicate over text chat, and then maybe you will finally see just how silly you are coming across with these nonsensical replies.

A poll doesn't work here. The audience is certainly biased.
Most of the people here are expert users, using the game a pretty long time on a PC.

They don't know any more what it is to be a noob and the ones who don't play the game on consoles don't know how life is arranged in that biotope.

And may I ask you to show some respect? I'm not silly because my view is different as yours.
I don't agree with your opinion, but I still respect you as a person.
Would be very kind, thank you very much.

Riga_Mortis

Select name, select tell , type message.
Highlight name,select mail, type message, send mail, wait for mail to arrive.

Hmmmm, which would be quicker?

Elsonso

aldyftb wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

This is still a thing?

Its gonna continue until zos gives a response. Its obviously something we all feel pretty strongly about.

They already explained why they don't have text chat. Nothing has really changed since then.

The only reason to talk about it now will be if they changed their mind. If they changed their mind, that news has to go past the Censor Twins (think Good Morning, Vietnam!) before anyone can talk about it.

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Select name, select tell , type message.
Highlight name,select mail, type message, send mail, wait for mail to arrive.

Hmmmm, which would be quicker?

What happened with your easy to learn command?

And what will you do when a lot people are nearby? Or you have to browse through a long list or you have to type some characters (and of course, you'll never enter a wrong character).

aldyftb

lordrichter wrote: »

aldyftb wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

This is still a thing?

Its gonna continue until zos gives a response. Its obviously something we all feel pretty strongly about.

They already explained why they don't have text chat. Nothing has really changed since then.

The only reason to talk about it now will be if they changed their mind. If they changed their mind, that news has to go past the Censor Twins (think Good Morning, Vietnam!) before anyone can talk about it.

And if we can change their mind sooner, job done.

Riga_Mortis

My easy to use command /t was put into a context you might understand better.

Side note, I'm not trying to offend you in any way pino, but please then don't reply with consoles users are to noobie to understand or quickly learn basic functions of a picticular gaming genre.

Vulsahdaal

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Select name, select tell , type message.
Highlight name,select mail, type message, send mail, wait for mail to arrive.

Hmmmm, which would be quicker?

What happened with your easy to learn command?

The command as well as the typing in of his name, would be used if the person did not send a message first. But it could also be used even if they did.

PinoZino wrote: »

And what will you do when a lot people are nearby? Or you have to browse through a long list or you have to type some characters (and of course, you'll never enter a wrong character).

This is not like voice chat. If there are a lot of people nearby, there is no need to go through a long list of people to single one out. It really is simple. If the person you wish to speak to has sent a message first, his name appears right next to his message, so we know its his. His name is right there and can be selected without bring up any sort of list regardless of how many people are in the area.
Unlike in voice chat, where if even 10 people are talking at once, but one particular one we wish to single out, it becomes a chore to go through the list and figure out which gamertag is his.

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

My easy to use command /t was put into a context you might understand better.

Side note, I'm not trying to offend you in any way pino, but please then don't reply with consoles users are to noobie to understand or quickly learn basic functions of a picticular gaming genre.

format c: /s /u

It isn't hard to learn what this command will do, but it becomes more complicate when you have several commands.

Even for trained people it becomes a mess soon.

You have to learn the commands and memorize them. But we are not computers: we forget and we make a lot recalling mistakes.

Many people don't play the game every day and have a long interval between two sessions.

You expect these kind of people will memorize all commands and can recall it forever?
Unfortunately our memory doesn't work like that. Stuff we don't use a lot, got forgotten or malformed pretty fast.

I still design Text based interfaces sometimes, but only with the right audience: people who use the system a lot adore the power and flexibility of text based commands.

But it's not wise to use them with people who don't use the system a lot.

Ace_of_Destiny

I didn't quit playing ESO only because it doesn't have text chat.

I quit playing it also because of toxic people like "some" in threads asking for text chat that argue against it for no other reason than to pisss people off...no matter how illogical of an argument against it they must make to support their "facts".

To all of those people...for the love of all that is holy...OPTIONS ARE GOOD!

I can't wait for ZOS to realize/admit their mistakes and fix this game...I really miss playing it.

Asherons_Call

PinoZino wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

How many of these strange analogies are you going to throw out? Do you have a notebook full of them or something? We don't need to be experts! This is not rocket science. This argument that you keep using makes no sense

Is hairdressing rocket science? No, it isn't. However, I would never allow that a hair dress noob would cut my hair.

I've 2 brain crunchers for you:

• If designing interfaces was easy, something everyone without the background could do, why do have most games, software and websites so many usability flaws?
• If designing interfaces was easy, something everyone without the background could do, why are some companies hiring experts paying $150 (minimum) per hour?

Of course I want a professional hair dresser doing my hair, just the same as wanting a professional developer creating the UI for this game - WHICH IS ALREADY THE CASE. They have the knowledge and training to create text chat on a console. It's been done many times in many other games sucessfully and it has already been created for ESO but just not included in the live version.

The question is not whether they can do it. It can and has been done. The question is are they willing to re-instate this into the UI as some of the player base are requesting. As a company if you fail to address the concerns of your clients you will not succeed in the long run.

Having voice only communication is cutting off a great deal of players who normally would be active participants in their guilds due to either not speaking the native language, having a speech impediment, needing a quiet atmosphere in the living room to not disturb the family, being shy, etc

That being said, since you are an apparent expert, what would you suggest the above mentioned do to communicate in game? Not an external device but in game

Riga_Mortis

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

My easy to use command /t was put into a context you might understand better.

Side note, I'm not trying to offend you in any way pino, but please then don't reply with consoles users are to noobie to understand or quickly learn basic functions of a picticular gaming genre.

format c: /s /u

It isn't hard to learn what this command will do, but it becomes more complicate when you have several commands.

Even for trained people it becomes a mess soon.

You have to learn the commands and memorize them. But we are not computers: we forget and we make a lot recalling mistakes.

Many people don't play the game every day and have a long interval between two sessions.

You expect these kind of people will memorize all commands and can recall it forever?
Unfortunately our memory doesn't work like that. Stuff we don't use a lot, got forgotten or malformed pretty fast.

I still design Text based interfaces sometimes, but only with the right audience: people who use the system a lot adore the power and flexibility of text based commands.

But it's not wise to use them with people who don't use the system a lot.

I think you need to give people more credit man.

terrordactyl1971

If they get the Group Finder to work in an effective way, then I'm not too bothered about text chat.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I'm just going to leave this little nugget of info here for you to try and disprove: there's a reason why wheels are round and are still round to this day ie; if it works it works so why try and reinvent the wheel.

Indeed. That's human nature at work. We are hardcoded to be afraid and be suspicious for new things.

Look we are more or less a bit civilized since 10.000 years (and some would argue we are still primitive)

Before that time a stranger would probably have killed you or took your wives (preferable he tried both). The idea of that game was: kill him first before you were the fish.

We had that behaviour for around 200.000 years and it became a part of our instinct: kill what's new and unusual.

We are still doing it, all the time.

What's it got to do with the wheel being round for a reason ?
Do you mean that wheels are still round because humanbeings are scared of innovation, and if we weren't scared, the wheel would be squared, or triangled ?

If you want people to remain polite you'd better come up with more on-topic arguments really.

Back to topic : how should people on consoles communicate the way they can with zone / area chat in a way that would be better than text chat ? (Thank you for answering this question and not derail into your neverending "my-life-as-an-expert").

Riga_Mortis

PinoZino wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I'm just going to leave this little nugget of info here for you to try and disprove: there's a reason why wheels are round and are still round to this day ie; if it works it works so why try and reinvent the wheel.

Indeed. That's human nature at work. We are hardcoded to be afraid and be suspicious for new things.

Look we are more or less a bit civilized since 10.000 years (and some would argue we are still primitive)

Before that time a stranger would probably have killed you or took your wives (preferable he tried both). The idea of that game was: kill him first before you were the fish.

We had that behaviour for around 200.000 years and it became a part of our instinct: kill what's new and unusual.

We are still doing it, all the time.

I do like the idea of having wives instead of just a wife, because again options are good!!

But with regards to a wheel still being round, it's because no one has come up with a better design for a wheel.
Put that into context for the topic of this thread and again no one has come up with a better solution for communicating than text chat in a mmo, that's why people are still asking for text chat and not asking for a better mailing system to communicate.

If anyone did come up with a better way of communicating in a mmo I'd be all over it and asking why it wasn't in ESO.

PinoZino

aldyftb wrote: »

Of course I want a professional hair dresser doing my hair, just the same as wanting a professional developer creating the UI for this game - WHICH IS ALREADY THE CASE. They have the knowledge and training to create text chat on a console. It's been done many times in many other games sucessfully and it has already been created for ESO but just not included in the live version.

The question is not whether they can do it. It can and has been done. The question is are they willing to re-instate this into the UI as some of the player base are requesting. As a company if you fail to address the concerns of your clients you will not succeed in the long run.

Having voice only communication is cutting off a great deal of players who normally would be active participants in their guilds due to either not speaking the native language, having a speech impediment, needing a quiet atmosphere in the living room to not disturb the family, being shy, etc

That being said, since you are an apparent expert, what would you suggest the above mentioned do to communicate in game? Not an external device but in game

They have UI people on board, but trust me, they have a hard time to get their ideas 'law'.
They have to fight the same people with the same opinions (I heard a million times; lol) like here in this thread. Every day.

It takes some time before an organization does a transition. Revolution isn't that good for a development cycle, evolution is probably better.

Give it some time. Month after month they'll grow, they will get better results and being more experienced in what they do.
Slowly they will kill the opposition and get more budget for their tasks.

'Budget' is everything. You can have talented people and fantastic ideas, but when there's few money left, you can't deliver.
And trust me, in most companies, 'usability' isn't an important department. They are usually the last in the row.

I'm not in the position to tell them what they should do. It's also very difficult to think about solid ideas without the user- and other data.

I can only talk about some raw ideas, which are also raised by other people.

But what's certainly clear: the game is missing communication meat. It's not easy to talk with each other, even with the members of your own guild. It's almost impossible to share info with your clan. And the way how we can talk with a stranger, is certainly a crime.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

They have UI people on board, but trust me, they have a hard time to get their ideas 'law'.
They have to fight the same people with the same opinions (I heard a million times; lol) like here in this thread. Every day.

If they come up with as few, non-developed or just plain non-existent concepts as you do, it's pretty normal that they're not heard

May I repeat the question ?

How should people on consoles communicate the way they can with zone / area chat in a way that would be better than text chat ?

Riga_Mortis

"But what's certainly clear: the game is missing communication meat. It's not easy to talk with each other, even with the members of your own guild. It's almost impossible to share info with your clan. And the way how we can talk with a stranger, is certainly a crime."

100% agree with you there pino.

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I think you need to give people more credit man.

And how can we fix humans their cognitive capacities and limits?
I'm all ears when you have a solution.

You, you probably play the game every day. At least a lot or you probably did.
So, I really do understand your view.

But you assume that Johnny, who's playing the game once a month, could do what you are doing.
But he can't. He will forget commands and best case he will forget them partly.

At that moment you created a threshold for Johnny. The idea is to minimize the thresholds as much as possible.
The game isn't designed for your type of players alone, but also for the Johnnies. At least it should.

And that's why a command system is maybe (and I'm even not sure) nice for you, but not for Johnny.