Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?

PinoZino

Asherons_Call wrote: »

I need to be a chef to go to a restaurant? What are you even talking about?

I wish you had my gift too. The ability to see things as they truly are without putting up nonsensical arguments.

Maybe you're not that good in abstract thinking and that's alright.

No, you don't need to be a chef to go to a restaurant.
But you don't become a chef by going to restaurants.

Just like you aren't an UX-expert by playing games.

If you want to be a chef, you have to study rather a lot (you would be surprised about the quantity) and you have to gain even more experience by doing your job.

But ok, it's fine for me, if you think you can be an expert in something without doing the effort but just by using the service.

Probably you're a pilot, a chef, a usability engineer, a lawyer, a hair dresser, a doctor, a gardener, a movie director, an author, an artist, a dentist, a plumber, a football coach, an hotshot manager ... all together in one person.

Good for you!

josh5813

I don't have a problem with no text chat in the console version. More or less because I don't have the game on console since I gave up on them and only play on a PC.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

But when it's starting a little bit more complicate (and it doesn't have to be really complicated) then it's better to call an expert.

True story: In my neighbourhood, a man died a few weeks ago. He had an old CRT TV and it was broken. He didn't know anything about electronics, however he tried to fix the TV.

He was killed by his TV when he hit by accident some component.

And you accuse others of using "anecdotal evidence" ??? LOL.

I'm sorry about your "neighbourhood guy" but it doesn't require "expertise" to switch off electricity before opening an electrical device. And it doesn't *always* require an "expert" to repair a device.

Like it doesn't require to be an "expert" to see that text chat would provide people with option for communicating ingame and grouping.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Quite funny how you demonstrate the risk of "anecdotal evidence" and yet you use a counter-argument that covers 0.01% of the "field". Of course if I need a bypass I'll need a surgeon. But over 90% of people who go to a doctor have something benine or a small fever and all they need to do is absorb a lot a liquid, keep themselves warm, rest and sweat.

One cure for all diseases? Ok.

The small fever could be just a symptom of something far more serious.

How would you - the noob doctor - detect this?

True story: every year, countless children died unneeded, because mama the noob doctor refused to visit a real one.

Please, don’t do this at home.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Apple ? Did you just say APPLE ??????? ROFLMAO.
You're probably too young to be aware how Apple was a small niche on the verge of bankrupt for YEARS before they decided to change... not their UI, but their MARKETING APPROACH.
During those decades, 90%+ people would still used Windows and its UI that was criticized heavily by "experts" for absurd details like "you shouldn't have to hit "start" in order to actually "shut down" the computer.
Stating that Apple has the best possible UI on the market is not because it's a fact, it's the result of this marketing strategy. People *believe* that it has. That's all.

Nice. If you're almost bankrupt, just change your marketing approach. Another one cure for all diseases?

It's certainly not true as well. Apple was for years very successful with their Mac's. Steve Jobs left the company and with him the vision.

The new CEO's and other hotshot-managers changed the vision. It was not anymore driven by what the customers needed, but by what the top assumed would be cool.

It certainly failed.

When Steve returned, the old vision came back.

If you really want to believe the iPhone was an instant hit, just due nice marketing then it's fine for me.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Another big LOL. The success of Google being due to their interface is a biased shortcut that YOU do.
Google's success isn't based on their interface but on their algorithms.
They didn't win because they thought "let's make a clean interface", they won because they thought "let's make something more out of all this data we're collecting". It provided *relevant* results while other search engines were providing 95% non-relevant results.

As a matter of fact, their algorithms were not that sophisticated at the start. The competition had much better algorithms AND far more data.

They crunched the competition way before their SE was really good.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You don't have to explain to us how scientific approach works like we were stupid or children - unless you like so much to listen to yourself. I know how it works. All I'm saying is :
1/ Scientific approach has its limitations just like any other approach and isn't more or less efficient than other approaches - the empirical one being one of them.
2/ People want means of communication in ESO. Provide suggestions as to how to achieve this instead of trying to prove that text chat would not achieve this.

1) Empirical evidence is a part of being scientific. I don't know why you try to separate it from science. But ok.

In science, empirical evidence is required for a hypothesis to gain acceptance in the scientific community. Normally, this validation is achieved by the scientific method of hypothesis commitment, experimental design, peer review, adversarial review, reproduction of results, conference presentation and journal publication. This requires rigorous communication of hypothesis (usually expressed in mathematics), experimental constraints and controls (expressed necessarily in terms of standard experimental apparatus), and a common understanding of measurement


But I'm really interested in your other approaches which are more or less efficient.

2) I already did in my first comment in this thread.

But I'm not that bad, I'll repeat:

• An enhanced and richer mail function
• A better Groupfinder
• Improved VoiceChat
• And an in-game private Guild Forum

And there's even more to fix as well.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And you accuse others of using "anecdotal evidence" ??? LOL.

I'm sorry about your "neighbourhood guy" but it doesn't require "expertise" to switch off electricity before opening an electrical device. And it doesn't *always* require an "expert" to repair a device.

Like it doesn't require to be an "expert" to see that text chat would provide people with option for communicating ingame and grouping.

You assume again.

He switched his electricity off. We know for sure, because his wife testified.
He was not smart (apparently) but not that dumb. Poor soul.

But even when you switch off electricity, an CRT TV (and more other electrical devices) could kill you.

But how would you know? You're a noob in this matter (like I'm a noob in the same field too). I just know by accident that by instance a high voltage transformer could be really dangerous.

Of course you don't need an expert for everything. But when it's complicated, you better call the expert.

Fixing a UI, that's really complicated.

Why do you think the experts in that field needs 5-8 years academically background and a couple years of experience before they can actual perform their job?

Why oh why would they do, if we can achieve the same just by playing a game?

It's like saying, you don't have to study medicines for years. Just be sure you're ill enough and often an in no time you'll be a doctor.

Ok.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

I already did in my first comment in this thread.

But I'm not that bad, I'll repeat:

• An enhanced and richer mail function
• A better Groupfinder
• Improved VoiceChat
• And an in-game private Guild Forum

And there's even more to fix as well.

Thanks for being "not that bad" and again so condescending but may I inform you that these four lines are by far not a concept ?

How would this richer enhanced mail function work and how would it be better than text chat ?
How would a better group finder be better than text chat ? (I agree that a *working* group finder would help, but a *better* one ?)
How should and would voice chat be improved and replace a potential text chat ?
And how would your "ingame private forum" work and be better than text chat ?

Expand on your own suggestions please.
(Oh, and don't forget to validate them by.... usability studies )

Because, you see, text chat usability has been proven... by other games on consoles and by this very game on PC.

NB : I'm not going to argue anymore about other topics because you just throw your opinions as facts and disregards other people's facts as opinions, so that's not leading anywhere. I guess you need more experience in life. And I hope you'll make a LOT of money in your life considering that you won't trust yourself in any field other that your own field of expertise and will need to pay an "expert" for every single basic task in life. You won't even trust your own needs until they're validated by a "study" ;-) ) I wonder how I can still be alive at my age with all this "DIY" that I do ;-) )

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for being "not that bad" and again so condescending but may I inform you that these four lines are by far not a concept ?

How would this richer enhanced mail function work and how would it be better than text chat ?
How would a better group finder be better than text chat ? (I agree that a *working* group finder would help, but a *better* one ?)
How should and would voice chat be improved and replace a potential text chat ?
And how would your "ingame private forum" work and be better than text chat ?

Expand on your own suggestions please.
(Oh, and don't forget to validate them by.... usability studies )

Because, you see, text chat usability has been proven... by other games on consoles and by this very game on PC.

Detecting issues is one thing, the solution is another.

Unlike you, I don't build concepts based on assumptions, feelings and wild guesses.

It would take weeks, even a couple of months to work them out all.

Just analyzing who the user is, define the user categories and fill them with mandatory data, would take 1 or 2 weeks. Go figure.

What you can do is using some quick and dirty method, but it would be not a valid solution. It can be used for fun and pleasure only.

But even that one takes some time. A couple of days would be enough.

Maybe I'll do when I'm bored, there's nothing on the TV, the dog isn't in the mood for playing and it's raining outside.

About your last line:

Because, you see, text chat usability has been proven... by other games on consoles and by this very game on PC

No further questions, your honour.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

Detecting issues is one thing, the solution is another.

Unlike you, I don't build concepts based on assumptions, feelings and wild guesses.

It would take weeks, even a couple of months to work them out all.

Just analyzing who the user is, define the user categories and fill them with mandatory data, would take 1 or 2 weeks. Go figure.

What you can do is using some quick and dirty method, but it would be not a valid solution. It can be used for fun and pleasure only.

But even that one takes some time. A couple of days would be enough.

Maybe I'll do when I'm bored, there's nothing on the TV, the dog isn't in the mood for playing and it's raining outside.

About your last line:

Because, you see, text chat usability has been proven... by other games on consoles and by this very game on PC

No further questions, your honour.

Sorry but I have some more questions :

- So you are sure that there are plenty of solutions better than text chat for consoles but you didn't bother expanding or testing or even thinking further into any of them ? So basically you're comparing text chat with non-existent and not even conceived alternatives and still pretend those options would be better than text chat ?

- The issue of switching devices is enough in your opinion to make the use of text chat on consoles not comparable at all with the use of text chat on PC ? Sure switching devices is annoying but NOTHING tells you that it would not be outweighed by far by the advantages of text chat. In other words, people would prefer to switch devices to type "LFG" in text chat and actually get a group rather than standing at the entrance of a dungeon shouting "LFG" in a mic (and listening to plenty of crap on this occasion).

Obviously given the time you spend on these forums trying to make your rather pointless "point" you have plenty of time on your hands and you should use it to work and expand on the alternatives you suggest. That might actually help people on consoles, much more than what you're doing now. Pretending to know better is one thing, proving it is another.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NB : I'm not going to argue anymore about other topics because you just throw your opinions as facts and disregards other people's facts as opinions, so that's not leading anywhere.

Unlike you, I can back-up my statements with studies and references. But of course, they don't fit in your mind, so you have to refute them.

I still have to see one valid source from someone to back-up his or her opinion. What they usually do is 'Yeah, but I can do that, so can we all'.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I guess you need more experience in life. And I hope you'll make a LOT of money in your life considering that you won't trust yourself in any field other that your own field of expertise and will need to pay an "expert" for every single basic task in life.

That's a false argument because I don't. I don't hire an expert for all and everything. I do when it's too complicated for me or for tasks I don't like.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You won't even trust your own needs until they're validated by a "study" ;-) ) I wonder how I can still be alive at my age with all this "DIY" that I do ;-) )

That's correct, that's how we work. As a matter of fact, we don't think much about solutions when we start working.

We start with gathering data. A lot data. Countless hours of observing and checking numbers. We do a lot paperwork before we start thinking about solutions.

And even when we have a solution, we'll test it again with the audience. Hours. Why? Because it's possible that our solution isn't that good at all. We don't want to assume it is good, we want to be sure.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I wonder how I can still be alive at my age with all this "DIY" that I do ;-) )

Consider yourself very lucky. Misinterpreting an innocent fever, could kill you. I hope when it happens, the experts are in time to help you out.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry but I have some more questions :

- So you are sure that there are plenty of solutions better than text chat for consoles but you didn't bother expanding or testing or even thinking further into any of them ? So basically you're comparing text chat with non-existent and not even conceived alternatives and still pretend those options would be better than text chat ?

- The issue of switching devices is enough in your opinion to make the use of text chat on consoles not comparable at all with the use of text chat on PC ? Sure switching devices is annoying but NOTHING tells you that it would not be outweighed by far by the advantages of text chat. In other words, people would prefer to switch devices to type "LFG" in text chat and actually get a group rather than standing at the entrance of a dungeon shouting "LFG" in a mic (and listening to plenty of crap on this occasion).

Obviously given the time you spend on these forums trying to make your rather pointless "point" you have plenty of time on your hands and you should use it to work and expand on the alternatives you suggest. That might actually help people on consoles, much more than what you're doing now. Pretending to know better is one thing, proving it is another.

It would be sad if we can't use former insights and knowledge to a new project.

I don't have to test anymore that this link isn't the best:

Click here

I know that this one is much better:

PinoZino his answer to Anita

I will not test anymore if a Click here link is the best, because I know for sure it isn't.
I tested it several times by myself and countless other people, institutes and companies did the same.
I would test it again if a prominent individual or organization would publish other findings.

However, I might test if the PinoZino his answer to Anita link is the best.

I don't have to test anymore if switching devices is disliked. I know it for sure. If we can, we try to build a solution to avoid it. And sure, sometimes you can't avoid it at all.

I don't feel I've to prove myself for you. I know what I can and as long enough companies know or assume it too, I feel fine.

Sure, I'm spending (maybe too) much time on this forum. Your offer is very friendly, but when I ever feel the desire that someone should manage my time, I would not call you, but an expert.

I also still think I can do whatever I want. Mind your own business, no?

But like I said, maybe I would develop it, even if it's quick and dirty and for fun purposes only.

Hammy01

Lol, I have to admit... Pinozino is very passionate about not having any text chat in ESO . Hopefully he has no affiliation with ZOS or we are all screwed.

PinoZino

Hammy01 wrote: »

Lol, I have to admit... Pinozino is very passionate about not having any text chat in ESO . Hopefully he has no affiliation with ZOS or we are all screwed.

lol

I can guarantee you, I'm not. If it was, the game would be much user-friendly

BalticBlues

The missing text chat is a pain in the ****
if you are having lots of friends and guilds.

- the ingame messager is unusable (10 min delays)
- you only can have ONE voice chat for ALL your friends/guilds. This DOES NOT WORK!
- therefore we constantly have to leave the program to use PS4 text messaging.

The more you get connected with people, there more you find yourself constantly switching between ESO and PS4 text messaging because ESO has no text chat. THIS SUCKS.

ZOS, please give us a professional text chat window for all our friends/guilds.

Tommy1979AtWar

PinoZino

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar

PinoZino wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

PinoZino

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

What you describe as trolling is nothing more as crying 'heretic!' by a believer.

Some people will always believe their green clay is really magical. For such people, when you're showing evidence stating the contrary, you are a troll.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Leave poor Pino alone

We all know by now that he's only aimed at pretending text chat would be bad for consoles (solely based on device switching) but has nothing and nada to suggest for people to achieve what they would achieve with text chat.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Leave poor Pino alone

We all know by now that he's only aimed at pretending text chat would be bad for consoles (solely based on device switching) but has nothing and nada to suggest for people to achieve what they would achieve with text chat.

You can achieve more with better tools.

But you can't help it. You don't have a background in the subject, you didn't read thousands UX books and papers, you didn't observe thousands of users.

All you have is your own experience. And that can be limited if you never have seen other solutions that might work better.

It's like turning of the electricity of your TV and start trying to fix it.
Your lack of knowledge and experience about high voltage transformers could really hurt or even kill you.

But you are not aware when you start fixing. Who needs experts anyway, isn’t Anita?

Vulsahdaal

PinoZino wrote: »

bareheiny wrote: »

You'd be wrong on my count....consoles since the PS2. Console & keyboard user since I started DCUO years ago.

And when playing DCUO, I tended to do this:

Chat with league mates.
Run instances.
Do some open world stuff....while keeping an eye on the chat box for something interesting.
Maybe join a group from the LFG chat.
Help some random who shouted for help via the shout channel.

And then chat with leaguemates...all through chat. Oddly, not a single one of the folk I talked with complained about device switching.

If people didn't want to chat, they didn't. If they were mid instance / fight...they wouldn't respond.

I believe you. I believe that you played like that. But in that case you don't need TextChat. An in-game private forum was a better choice.

So how exactly does this in-game forum work then? Lets just use his last 3 examples-

A random unknown to him player is sitting in front of a dungeon across the map somewhere, wants to let people know he is LFG.
Another random unknown to him player on the other side of the map wants to call for help at a dolmen.
How do they do this with your in-game forum idea?
And how is he able to view this in game forum to see their calls, while he is doing things in the open world?

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

You can achieve more with better tools.

... which you didn't even bother describing and elaborating or even imagining.

How can you compare something with something that doesn't exist, not even in your head, and pretend that this something that doesn't exist would be better ?

Riga_Mortis

uses a mailing system in game to communicate with others in his guild etc, he has become irrelevant to this entire thread imo.

No wonder that guy earlier pulled him up about lack of communication in his guild, cos he must not of got the mail until he changed zone.

aldyftb

He won't elaborate on his solutions because he can't, hes just spouting crap and hoping we're too dumb to come back at him. Theres been no validity in anything he has said.

Riga_Mortis

@aldyftb it amazes me still, I mean if the mailing of messages is used for privacy reasons then how the hell is that easier than using text chat whispers and tells, which only the recipient can access.?

PinoZino

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

So how exactly does this in-game forum work then? Lets just use his last 3 examples-

A random unknown to him player is sitting in front of a dungeon across the map somewhere, wants to let people know he is LFG.
Another random unknown to him player on the other side of the map wants to call for help at a dolmen.
How do they do this with your in-game forum idea?
And how is he able to view this in game forum to see their calls, while he is doing things in the open world?

You can't fix that with a forum alone.

A forum is very nice for Guild issues.

Looking for some people to explore the world? Cry on your forum.
Want to sell or buy something not available in the store? Cry on your forum.
You want to discuss a tactic to kill some strong boss? Cry on your forum.

I'm wondering why we can't easily mail a random person. We can, but it's not easy.

Currently it is working more or less like this:

• You have to check the PSN
• Go into your menu
• Rather deep hidden in the menu you can find the functionality to mail
• Next you have to enter the PSN or you search in a list
• Enter a subject
• And now you can finally create your message.

At that time, probably you are already death or the person you want to speak already left.

It could be much easier.

• Click person
• a menu appears (it already does)
• select 'Send Mail'
• Create message or select one of the 10 predefined messages - user created or hardcoded (you should test!)

Simple and elegant.

I don't know why you should see the messages of a random person not nearby. How will you manage that when hundreds of people are in the area? You can't fix that with TextChat as well.

Better communicating tools is not about providing a forum alone.

aldyftb

@Dazza1968 it just isn't lol

Riga_Mortis

4 step process to send a mail, easier that just typing /t pinozino "insert message" ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

I don't know why you should see the messages of a random person not nearby. How will you manage that when hundreds of people are in the area? You can't fix that with TextChat as well.

ROFLMAO. Do you even play this game, Pino ?
What you're talking about here is zone chat, and people on PC use it all the time for help, advice, trading and grouping. And yes there are hundreds of people in the same zone but it still works very well.
(And do not pretend they can find this in your so-called "guild private forum" because, precisely, you often need to communicate outside of your guild, get a wider audience for selling, find people for grouping or just generally socializing with new people outside of your guild).

But you're quite predictable by now, so you'll tell me "but that's PC, people on consoles wouldn't use it, because, you know, device switching, blah hbla, experts, studies, blah blah... "

If you come up with a better idea than a chat box to fulfill the role of zone chat then I'll read it carefully and with interest.
But if your position is to say that you don't understand the need for zone chat, then sorry but you know nothing, Jon Snow.

PinoZino

Dazza1968 wrote: »

4 step process to send a mail, easier that just typing /t pinozino "insert message" ?

On a console? Yes, it would be much easier.
You forgot that most don't have a keyboard attached.

And in your situation I have to learn a command. It means the ease of learning is worse.

What's more, your solution would be slower too, sure when you're not contacting PinoZino but Xx-_GJHDKH3!23-Xy-X

Riga_Mortis

You have to learn a command as complicated as /t, is your reply?

Just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper buddy.