Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Good old "experts vs. common sense" debate.

And yes Pino, while I understand some of your points, you're stretching it far too far over the top here.

And there are countless examples of experts' failures all over the place, which more use of common sense could have prevented.
There are countless new products launched after "experts' studies" had predicted success that fail on a large scale. And countless new products designed and launched without any studies or experts, just with common sense and creative vision, and that are extremely successful.

Expertise is widely overrated. Numbers are subject to interpretation, studies have bias.

What we have here is console players who have no text chat and want to trade, find groups, communicate in zone and in town. Their common sense tells them that it would be easy with a keyboard.
You're telling them "no, you think that's what you need but it isn't, I -the expert - know better than you what you need".

I for one I *always* very cautious whenever somebody pretends to know better than others what's good for them.

You can try to cure yourself, defend yourself in court or cut your own hair.

But in general it's better to contact an expert.

Sure experts do fail, doesn't mean they all fail.

We don't know what's good for you, but your behaviour or your interaction with the UI and the artefacts will do.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

You can try to cure yourself, defend yourself in court or cut your own hair.

But in general it's better to contact an expert.

That's where we disagree

I do all of this myself. Well, apart from the court which I prefer to avoid altogether.
And it's much cheaper and very efficient, if not more efficient. (If you knew only 1% of what's going on in the pharmaceutical industry...)

Seriously Pino, stop. Your position is far to rigid and condescending.

People want a solution to their grouping and communication issues. Provide them with one or shut up. Please.

Uberkull

PinoZino wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

My guilds are console day one launch trade guilds, so I've already seen trends. Also played on ESO PC. You just started in September? Trust me, I inow who visits our forums. The bottom of the forum gives stats on visitors vs members and the forum itself provides historical data. I also have a pricing guide that I keep open to the public, no forum mennbership required, which lures in lots of hits.

I've run guilds in many other MMOs, bottomlne, text chat helps keep a guild active, and growing, voice chat does not.

I don't use VoiceChat. But I communicate a lot: via in-game mail, gmail, forum, website...
It’s all a lot of work, but fun as well.

Pino.../facepalm....why are you against OPTIONAL text chat on console if you don't even use voice chat and you TYPE in all those other text-based systems?

Cmon man.

Asherons_Call

PinoZino wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Good old "experts vs. common sense" debate.

And yes Pino, while I understand some of your points, you're stretching it far too far over the top here.

And there are countless examples of experts' failures all over the place, which more use of common sense could have prevented.
There are countless new products launched after "experts' studies" had predicted success that fail on a large scale. And countless new products designed and launched without any studies or experts, just with common sense and creative vision, and that are extremely successful.

Expertise is widely overrated. Numbers are subject to interpretation, studies have bias.

What we have here is console players who have no text chat and want to trade, find groups, communicate in zone and in town. Their common sense tells them that it would be easy with a keyboard.
You're telling them "no, you think that's what you need but it isn't, I -the expert - know better than you what you need".

I for one I *always* very cautious whenever somebody pretends to know better than others what's good for them.

You can try to cure yourself, defend yourself in court or cut your own hair.

But in general it's better to contact an expert.

Sure experts do fail, doesn't mean they all fail.

We don't know what's good for you, but your behaviour or your interaction with the UI and the artefacts will do.

How many of these strange analogies are you going to throw out? Do you have a notebook full of them or something? We don't need to be experts! This is not rocket science. This argument that you keep using makes no sense

NewBlacksmurf

.

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

You do know that Xbox One will support a keyboard and mouse for gaming in an upcoming update, right?

I actually test this stuff before you guys get access...I'm fully aware that between the win10 to Xbox one in the New Xbox One Experience there will be new options where it makes sense when a developer chooses to utilize the newer developing tools. Specific to mouse and keyboard...on Xbox one....don't hold your breath

Edit: to be clear it may not be how you think it will be

Good to know that you have already decided how a feature will be utilized by developers of which you have no knowledge.

Wow...your responding very offensively to something you have no information on...

It's Xbox so what I know is always subject to change as I'm not a developer for them but ppl are jumping to this idea that they're going to just plug a mouse into the console and game is very far off. While possible if a developer chooses it's far off based on what's going on

We're not talking about using a mouse, just a keyboard. I'd rather not use the mouse/keyboard combination like on a PC.. Just a keyboard to needed to communicate, not move around in game.

You may not be talking about a mouse but me and the forum user were as it pertains to this topic. If you are able to play on PTS the discussion makes a lot of sense and offers a good perspectives to why our discussion diverted from keyboard to mouse and keyboard.

Regarding the topic tho...I see a lot of this for those participating and who want the feature as a nice to have for them.
The irritating part tho is the keyboard only would offer communication options and no gameplay unlike on PC the console UI offers while in it both mouse+keyboard+game-pad functionality all at once

Asherons_Call

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

.

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

You do know that Xbox One will support a keyboard and mouse for gaming in an upcoming update, right?

I actually test this stuff before you guys get access...I'm fully aware that between the win10 to Xbox one in the New Xbox One Experience there will be new options where it makes sense when a developer chooses to utilize the newer developing tools. Specific to mouse and keyboard...on Xbox one....don't hold your breath

Edit: to be clear it may not be how you think it will be

Good to know that you have already decided how a feature will be utilized by developers of which you have no knowledge.

Wow...your responding very offensively to something you have no information on...

It's Xbox so what I know is always subject to change as I'm not a developer for them but ppl are jumping to this idea that they're going to just plug a mouse into the console and game is very far off. While possible if a developer chooses it's far off based on what's going on

We're not talking about using a mouse, just a keyboard. I'd rather not use the mouse/keyboard combination like on a PC.. Just a keyboard to needed to communicate, not move around in game.

You may not be talking about a mouse but me and the forum user were as it pertains to this topic. If you are able to play on PTS the discussion makes a lot of sense and offers a good perspectives to why our discussion diverted from keyboard to mouse and keyboard.

Regarding the topic tho...I see a lot of this for those participating and who want the feature as a nice to have for them.
The irritating part tho is the keyboard only would offer communication options and no gameplay unlike on PC the console UI offers while in it both mouse+keyboard+game-pad functionality all at once

That's all most of us would want with the keyboard, just communication. One of the reasons why I originally transferred from PC is because I was never a fan of using the keyboard/mouse to control your character. Now that PC is getting controller support I may just end up biting the bullet and switching back to PC even if it means having to re-roll

Riga_Mortis

"I don't use VoiceChat. But I communicate a lot: via in-game mail, gmail, forum, website...
It’s all a lot of work, but fun as well."

The above statement by pino baffles me, how can a person be soo against in game text chat (zone/area/guild), when said person uses a mailing system as their main form of in game communication.

Asherons_Call

Dazza1968 wrote: »

"I don't use VoiceChat. But I communicate a lot: via in-game mail, gmail, forum, website...
It’s all a lot of work, but fun as well."

The above statement by pino baffles me, how can a person be soo against in game text chat (zone/area/guild), when said person uses a mailing system as their main form of in game communication.

Between him and old white gargamel they've probably written a couple of novels in the pages upon pages of far reaching arguments. It's hard to comprehend why they're putting so much time and effort into this

Destyran

Its annoying AF because you cant wts wtb on boice chat without some troll saying thats a ripoff or i have them but im not selling them or for example you are talking to someone in craglorn and 25 people riding horses in a straight line come padt blairing thomas the tank engine through the head set. Its annoying we at least need area chat for help and wtb/wts. Trolls wont go throught the trouble of typing.

NewBlacksmurf

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

.

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

You do know that Xbox One will support a keyboard and mouse for gaming in an upcoming update, right?

I actually test this stuff before you guys get access...I'm fully aware that between the win10 to Xbox one in the New Xbox One Experience there will be new options where it makes sense when a developer chooses to utilize the newer developing tools. Specific to mouse and keyboard...on Xbox one....don't hold your breath

Edit: to be clear it may not be how you think it will be

Good to know that you have already decided how a feature will be utilized by developers of which you have no knowledge.

Wow...your responding very offensively to something you have no information on...

It's Xbox so what I know is always subject to change as I'm not a developer for them but ppl are jumping to this idea that they're going to just plug a mouse into the console and game is very far off. While possible if a developer chooses it's far off based on what's going on

We're not talking about using a mouse, just a keyboard. I'd rather not use the mouse/keyboard combination like on a PC.. Just a keyboard to needed to communicate, not move around in game.

You may not be talking about a mouse but me and the forum user were as it pertains to this topic. If you are able to play on PTS the discussion makes a lot of sense and offers a good perspectives to why our discussion diverted from keyboard to mouse and keyboard.

Regarding the topic tho...I see a lot of this for those participating and who want the feature as a nice to have for them.
The irritating part tho is the keyboard only would offer communication options and no gameplay unlike on PC the console UI offers while in it both mouse+keyboard+game-pad functionality all at once

That's all most of us would want with the keyboard, just communication. One of the reasons why I originally transferred from PC is because I was never a fan of using the keyboard/mouse to control your character. Now that PC is getting controller support I may just end up biting the bullet and switching back to PC even if it means having to re-roll

I'd jump in PTS right now and check it out if you're considering it.
Other than the XBox Live part it's better because this update allows add-ons for the console UI so hopefully you'll see even more play

Asherons_Call

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

.

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

You do know that Xbox One will support a keyboard and mouse for gaming in an upcoming update, right?

I actually test this stuff before you guys get access...I'm fully aware that between the win10 to Xbox one in the New Xbox One Experience there will be new options where it makes sense when a developer chooses to utilize the newer developing tools. Specific to mouse and keyboard...on Xbox one....don't hold your breath

Edit: to be clear it may not be how you think it will be

Good to know that you have already decided how a feature will be utilized by developers of which you have no knowledge.

Wow...your responding very offensively to something you have no information on...

It's Xbox so what I know is always subject to change as I'm not a developer for them but ppl are jumping to this idea that they're going to just plug a mouse into the console and game is very far off. While possible if a developer chooses it's far off based on what's going on

We're not talking about using a mouse, just a keyboard. I'd rather not use the mouse/keyboard combination like on a PC.. Just a keyboard to needed to communicate, not move around in game.

You may not be talking about a mouse but me and the forum user were as it pertains to this topic. If you are able to play on PTS the discussion makes a lot of sense and offers a good perspectives to why our discussion diverted from keyboard to mouse and keyboard.

Regarding the topic tho...I see a lot of this for those participating and who want the feature as a nice to have for them.
The irritating part tho is the keyboard only would offer communication options and no gameplay unlike on PC the console UI offers while in it both mouse+keyboard+game-pad functionality all at once

That's all most of us would want with the keyboard, just communication. One of the reasons why I originally transferred from PC is because I was never a fan of using the keyboard/mouse to control your character. Now that PC is getting controller support I may just end up biting the bullet and switching back to PC even if it means having to re-roll

I'd jump in PTS right now and check it out if you're considering it.
Other than the XBox Live part it's better because this update allows add-ons for the console UI so hopefully you'll see even more play

How does controller support work for PC? Can I just plug in my existing ps4 controller or do I need to buy a special PC controller?

I do have access to pts so I'll have to check it out

Kalfis

No reason why there shouldn't be text chat. Is it really THAT hard to implement? Or does ZoE want to force console players to use voice chat?

BOTH the Xbox One and the PS4 have chatpads and they work fine. So the no keyboard excuse isn't valid.
The Xbox One chatpad isnt out until November. Maybe ZoE is waiting until then?

Pallmor

PinoZino wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

I played for a year on PC with a gamepad, and during that time I ate the lunches of plenty of keyboard/mouse players who thought that their ancient input devices made them the master race. I just wish there had been an special teabag emote for "You just got pwned by a controller player."

Maybe you, as a Vet, were fighting newbies?

During the testing, extremely talented console gamers were pitted against "mediocre" PC gamers in what appears to be some type of shooter. The Xbox gamers used their 360 controllers and the PC gamers used the traditional mouse/keyboard combo. The results?

"The console players got destroyed every time. So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative."

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

Said an unnamed source...about a fps.

I can only tell you that I played with a game controller and never one felt like I was handicapped in any way compared to k/m players. Not in groups, not in cyrodil, not in PvE. The only thing that I used a keyboard for was chat and some bank stuff. Maybe it does make a difference in a fps where you have to get quick precision headshots all the time. But I sure never noticed any disadvantage to a controller in ESO.

And I know there were a lot of other players on ESO who played with controllers back then too (before I moved over to the PS4). I never once heard any of them complain either about constantly getting owned by k/m players. I even remember numerous threads on this forum discussing best xpadder profiles. I used a modified profile originally set up by a poster named Darcula. I inverted the y-axis and upped the sensitivity of the thumbsticks slightly. Worked great.

Hiero_Glyph

PinoZino wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

I played for a year on PC with a gamepad, and during that time I ate the lunches of plenty of keyboard/mouse players who thought that their ancient input devices made them the master race. I just wish there had been an special teabag emote for "You just got pwned by a controller player."

Maybe you, as a Vet, were fighting newbies?

During the testing, extremely talented console gamers were pitted against "mediocre" PC gamers in what appears to be some type of shooter. The Xbox gamers used their 360 controllers and the PC gamers used the traditional mouse/keyboard combo. The results?

"The console players got destroyed every time. So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative."

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

As was noted previously, this study was specific to a shooter, not an MMORPG. In ESO you do not need to aim at a player's head to kill them, only aim in their general direction. Likewise all attacks are managed by timed sequences of button inputs which a keyboard and controller can both accurately manage. As I also noted previously, one of the most respected PvPers on PC uses a 360 controller with Xpadder. If what you claim was true, he should be losing to mediocre PC players regularly. Thanks for providing a study, but make sure it applies to the scenario in question.

On a side note, Shadowrun used cross-play betweeen the 360 and PC and had measures in place to keep both sides equal. This measure was a slight settling effect when using a mouse where shots could deviate unless you reduced the movement speed of the reticle for a brief period of time. Needless to say, this small change kept all players level for the life of the game.

Asherons_Call

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

I played for a year on PC with a gamepad, and during that time I ate the lunches of plenty of keyboard/mouse players who thought that their ancient input devices made them the master race. I just wish there had been an special teabag emote for "You just got pwned by a controller player."

Maybe you, as a Vet, were fighting newbies?

During the testing, extremely talented console gamers were pitted against "mediocre" PC gamers in what appears to be some type of shooter. The Xbox gamers used their 360 controllers and the PC gamers used the traditional mouse/keyboard combo. The results?

"The console players got destroyed every time. So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative."

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

As was noted previously, this study was specific to a shooter, not an MMORPG. In ESO you do not need to aim at a player's head to kill them, only aim in their general direction. Likewise all attacks are managed by timed sequences of button inputs which a keyboard and controller can both accurately manage. As I also noted previously, one of the most respected PvPers on PC uses a 360 controller with Xpadder. If what you claim was true, he should be losing to mediocre PC players regularly. Thanks for providing a study, but make sure it applies to the scenario in question.

On a side note, Shadowrun used cross-play betweeen the 360 and PC and had measures in place to keep both sides equal. This measure was a slight settling effect when using a mouse where shots could deviate unless you reduced the movement speed of the reticle for a brief period of time. Needless to say, this small change kept all players level for the life of the game.

*face perks up*

Did you say shadowrun??

Please tell me there is a Shadowrun MMORPG in the works.. I played the pen and paper version back in the 90s and loved the game setting

Pallmor

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

As I also noted previously, one of the most respected PvPers on PC uses a 360 controller with Xpadder. If what you claim was true, he should be losing to mediocre PC players regularly. Thanks for providing a study, but make sure it applies to the scenario in question.

Now that I think about it, IIRC, I think one of the hosts of Elder Scrolls Off the Record (Mike, aka "KDRMickey") has said that he uses a controller for the PC too. And I think he does at least some PvP.

Riga_Mortis

Loved shadowrun on the 360, was well excited when I got the achievement for killing my first PC player.

Asherons_Call

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Loved shadowrun on the 360, was well excited when I got the achievement for killing my first PC player.

Just looked it up and it was a shooter? That's disappointing to turn that world into anything other than an rpg

forgotten7377

O_O

NewBlacksmurf

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

.

Asherons_Call wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

You do know that Xbox One will support a keyboard and mouse for gaming in an upcoming update, right?

I actually test this stuff before you guys get access...I'm fully aware that between the win10 to Xbox one in the New Xbox One Experience there will be new options where it makes sense when a developer chooses to utilize the newer developing tools. Specific to mouse and keyboard...on Xbox one....don't hold your breath

Edit: to be clear it may not be how you think it will be

Good to know that you have already decided how a feature will be utilized by developers of which you have no knowledge.

Wow...your responding very offensively to something you have no information on...

It's Xbox so what I know is always subject to change as I'm not a developer for them but ppl are jumping to this idea that they're going to just plug a mouse into the console and game is very far off. While possible if a developer chooses it's far off based on what's going on

We're not talking about using a mouse, just a keyboard. I'd rather not use the mouse/keyboard combination like on a PC.. Just a keyboard to needed to communicate, not move around in game.

You may not be talking about a mouse but me and the forum user were as it pertains to this topic. If you are able to play on PTS the discussion makes a lot of sense and offers a good perspectives to why our discussion diverted from keyboard to mouse and keyboard.

Regarding the topic tho...I see a lot of this for those participating and who want the feature as a nice to have for them.
The irritating part tho is the keyboard only would offer communication options and no gameplay unlike on PC the console UI offers while in it both mouse+keyboard+game-pad functionality all at once

That's all most of us would want with the keyboard, just communication. One of the reasons why I originally transferred from PC is because I was never a fan of using the keyboard/mouse to control your character. Now that PC is getting controller support I may just end up biting the bullet and switching back to PC even if it means having to re-roll

I'd jump in PTS right now and check it out if you're considering it.
Other than the XBox Live part it's better because this update allows add-ons for the console UI so hopefully you'll see even more play

How does controller support work for PC? Can I just plug in my existing ps4 controller or do I need to buy a special PC controller?

I do have access to pts so I'll have to check it out

It works exactly like console with the same console UI on PC once you turn on game-pad support in settings.
I'm not sure how the PS4 controller works on PC but the Xbox one controller on win10 is plug and play

PS4 controller might throw this error - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222489/xinput1-3-dll-is-missing#latest

Xendyn

Asherons_Call wrote: »

How does controller support work for PC? Can I just plug in my existing ps4 controller or do I need to buy a special PC controller?

I do have access to pts so I'll have to check it out

I remember reading something about it needing to recognize the PS4 controller as an Xbox controller, but I'm sorry I can't remember exactly what to do. You might check the PTS forums.

bareheiny

PinoZino wrote: »

If you drive a car for 30 years, you'll be not a magnificent car designer. At best, you're just an experienced driver.

Yeah, but I still know that a car with no wheels is a bad idea.

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's where we disagree

I do all of this myself. Well, apart from the court which I prefer to avoid altogether.
And it's much cheaper and very efficient, if not more efficient. (If you knew only 1% of what's going on in the pharmaceutical industry...)

Seriously Pino, stop. Your position is far to rigid and condescending.

People want a solution to their grouping and communication issues. Provide them with one or shut up. Please.

So you really think it's better that people cure themselves and don't go to the doctor? I truly hope you never need a bypass, but if you do, I hope you put on YouTube how you carry it out on yourself. Would be an interesting watch.

And then they say my position is far to rigid and condescending. Ok. lol

Yes, it's clear that the people need better communication tools. Question is if their solution is...

a) ...a solution?
b) ...the best solution?

Designing an interface based on opinions, it never was a big success and will never be. Ask 100 people and you get 100 different opinions.

It's unworkable to try them out all and you're still risking that not one of these 100 opinions was a good solution.

Why? Partly because in general the people have no background in human factors, partly because the foundation of their opinion is based on anecdotal evidence. You can see this at work in this thread.

Someone said: "I beat mouse/keyboard people with my gamepad" and he's suggesting he could do it all the time and that we could all. He announced it as a fact, while it's pure anecdotal evidence and more than likely even biased.

Rather a lot companies, universities and individuals studied this specific issue with much larger groups and have a complete other finding. Not an opinion, but a finding.

People like you could argue that their findings could be fraudulent or wrong. I'll answer you: it could be true for some, but not when the entire usability community gets the same results.

It’s a bit working like in science. It’s not enough when 1 person found some evidence. No, you should be able to reproduce it, the finding should be the subject of a peer review. It takes a while before a finding becomes an ‘official’ fact.

Facts. That's what counts in UI. You can base it on facts. How? By studying and analyzing the user, his environment, his tasks and goals.

With THAT knowledge you can build prototypes, give them to the players and watch them while playing.

It will not be finished with the first tryout, you will have to fine-tune and maybe detect new problems which will need a solution.

That's why you iterate, till certain goals are reached.
That's in short how the experts work. Does it work? It certainly does. Apple is working like that.

Another example needed? Google.

That's how search engines looked like before Google hit the surface:



Most search engines had a similar approach. It was clearly not designed by usability people.

And what about the users? Did they complain about such interface? No, they didn't. They were used to this awful interface, they didn't know better and because their lack of usability knowledge they didn't know what's wrong.

And then Google saw the light and what did they build?



Still not perfect, but that screen is clearly designed by usability people. It's focused on the main task people do at a search engine and that's...searching.

And we all know who won the search engine war. The engine itself of Google wasn't much better as the engine of the other search engines companies at the start. What made the difference was the interface.

Usability isn't about opinions, you can measure it.

PinoZino

uberkull wrote: »

Pino.../facepalm....why are you against OPTIONAL text chat on console if you don't even use voice chat and you TYPE in all those other text-based systems?

Cmon man.

Because the context is completely different.

I don't do this:

• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail

What I do is this:

• Creating mails
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a lot

I separate my tasks.

By the nature of an instant messaging system, most people will play the game like in the first example. It isn't that hard to predict the people will get frustrated and annoyed when they have to switch their devices such a lot.

I'm not against typing, I'm not against TextChat at all, but I would be not a fan of using TextChat on the consoles.

I'm also wondering who these Pro TextChat people are. I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk were (former) PC players.

AlphaCrucis

Yep I'm up for text chat

bareheiny

PinoZino wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Pino.../facepalm....why are you against OPTIONAL text chat on console if you don't even use voice chat and you TYPE in all those other text-based systems?

Cmon man.

Because the context is completely different.

I don't do this:

• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a bit
• Creating mail

What I do is this:

• Creating mails
• Explore, fight, farm or craft a lot

I separate my tasks.

By the nature of an instant messaging system, most people will play the game like in the first example. It isn't that hard to predict the people will get frustrated and annoyed when they have to switch their devices such a lot.

I'm not against typing, I'm not against TextChat at all, but I would be not a fan of using TextChat on the consoles.

I'm also wondering who these Pro TextChat people are. I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk were (former) PC players.

You'd be wrong on my count....consoles since the PS2. Console & keyboard user since I started DCUO years ago.

And when playing DCUO, I tended to do this:

Chat with league mates.
Run instances.
Do some open world stuff....while keeping an eye on the chat box for something interesting.
Maybe join a group from the LFG chat.
Help some random who shouted for help via the shout channel.

And then chat with leaguemates...all through chat. Oddly, not a single one of the folk I talked with complained about device switching.

If people didn't want to chat, they didn't. If they were mid instance / fight...they wouldn't respond.

PinoZino

Asherons_Call wrote: »

How many of these strange analogies are you going to throw out? Do you have a notebook full of them or something? We don't need to be experts! This is not rocket science. This argument that you keep using makes no sense

Is hairdressing rocket science? No, it isn't. However, I would never allow that a hair dress noob would cut my hair.

I've 2 brain crunchers for you:

• If designing interfaces was easy, something everyone without the background could do, why do have most games, software and websites so many usability flaws?
• If designing interfaces was easy, something everyone without the background could do, why are some companies hiring experts paying $150 (minimum) per hour?

PinoZino

bareheiny wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

If you drive a car for 30 years, you'll be not a magnificent car designer. At best, you're just an experienced driver.

Yeah, but I still know that a car with no wheels is a bad idea.

Sure. The car driver can detect issues. And he can even find solutions for very simple and obvious problems.

But when it's starting a little bit more complicate (and it doesn't have to be really complicated) then it's better to call an expert.

True story: In my neighbourhood, a man died a few weeks ago. He had an old CRT TV and it was broken. He didn't know anything about electronics, however he tried to fix the TV.

He was killed by his TV when he hit by accident some component.

PinoZino

bareheiny wrote: »

You'd be wrong on my count....consoles since the PS2. Console & keyboard user since I started DCUO years ago.

And when playing DCUO, I tended to do this:

Chat with league mates.
Run instances.
Do some open world stuff....while keeping an eye on the chat box for something interesting.
Maybe join a group from the LFG chat.
Help some random who shouted for help via the shout channel.

And then chat with leaguemates...all through chat. Oddly, not a single one of the folk I talked with complained about device switching.

If people didn't want to chat, they didn't. If they were mid instance / fight...they wouldn't respond.

I believe you. I believe that you played like that. But in that case you don't need TextChat. An in-game private forum was a better choice.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

So you really think it's better that people cure themselves and don't go to the doctor? I truly hope you never need a bypass, but if you do, I hope you put on YouTube how you carry it out on yourself. Would be an interesting watch.

Quite funny how you demonstrate the risk of "anecdotal evidence" and yet you use a counter-argument that covers 0.01% of the "field". Of course if I need a bypass I'll need a surgeon. But over 90% of people who go to a doctor have something benine or a small fever and all they need to do is absorb a lot a liquid, keep themselves warm, rest and sweat.

PinoZino wrote: »

Does it work? It certainly does. Apple is working like that.

Apple ? Did you just say APPLE ??????? ROFLMAO.
You're probably too young to be aware how Apple was a small niche on the verge of bankrupt for YEARS before they decided to change... not their UI, but their MARKETING APPROACH.
During those decades, 90%+ people would still used Windows and its UI that was criticized heavily by "experts" for absurd details like "you shouldn't have to hit "start" in order to actually "shut down" the computer.
Stating that Apple has the best possible UI on the market is not because it's a fact, it's the result of this marketing strategy. People *believe* that it has. That's all.

PinoZino wrote: »

Another example needed? Google.
(snip)
And we all know who won the search engine war. The engine itself of Google wasn't much better as the engine of the other search engines companies at the start. What made the difference was the interface.

Another big LOL. The success of Google being due to their interface is a biased shortcut that YOU do.
Google's success isn't based on their interface but on their algorithms.
They didn't win because they thought "let's make a clean interface", they won because they thought "let's make something more out of all this data we're collecting". It provided *relevant* results while other search engines were providing 95% non-relevant results.

You don't have to explain to us how scientific approach works like we were stupid or children - unless you like so much to listen to yourself. I know how it works.

By the way, you know the story of the scientist and the flea ?
The scientist orders the flea to jump and it jumps. Repeatedly.
Then he cuts off its legs and tries again. The flea doesn't jump. Repeatedly.
Then he writes as a conclusion of his experiments : "A flea becomes deaf when you cut off her legs".
Scientists all over the world make mistakes and false conclusions like this all the time.

In short :

1/ Scientific approach has its limitations just like any other approach and isn't more or less efficient than other approaches - the empirical one being one of them. Believe me, if all creative and inventing processes had had to "wait" to be validated by "experts and studies" we would still be at the age of stone.

2/ People want means of communication in ESO. Provide suggestions as to how to achieve this instead of trying to prove that text chat would not achieve this.